Gary Wilbers is the founder of Ascend Business Strategies and a seasoned entrepreneur. Gary shares valuable lessons on leadership, adaptability, and building a resilient business that can withstand the tests of time and technology.

Gary reflects on his career, starting from his early days in the mobile phone industry to establishing and scaling his businesses. He emphasizes the importance of adaptability in leadership, noting that a rigid approach can often hinder growth. By fostering a culture of innovation and flexibility, Gary successfully navigated numerous industry changes and challenges.

Throughout the conversation, Gary stresses the significance of mentoring and coaching in his development as a leader. He credits much of his success to the insights and guidance received from mentors and coaches who encouraged him to think beyond conventional business practices.

Listeners will also gain insights into the importance of creating a positive company culture that not only drives business success but also creates lasting legacies. Gary's commitment to his community and his involvement in initiatives like the Special Olympics illustrate how businesses can play a crucial role in societal enrichment.

Want to learn more about Gary Wilbers' work? Check out their website at https://goascend.biz/.

Connect with Gary Wilbers on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/garywilbers/.

Key Points with Time Stamps:

• 00:01:22 - Gary discusses his primary focus on helping small business owners.
• 00:08:11 - Importance of adaptability and marketing in business highlighted.
• 00:09:54 - Gary shares how he expanded his company from two to 150 employees.
• 00:18:44 - The concept of creating legacies through business discussed.
• 00:26:24 - Gary talks about his partnership with Special Olympics and its impact on his company culture.
• 00:31:03 - Discussion on the challenges and strategies of working with big platforms like AT&T.

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment of my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on the show.

00;00;51;18 - 00;01;22;06
Craig Andrews
Today I will welcome Gary Wilbur's. He is the founder of Ascend Business Strategies. But not just that. He's founded over a dozen companies over three decades. we share a background in the wireless space, and it was funny. I was making the phones. He was selling the phones, and he's got over ten years of, coaching and, just a lot of proven expertise.

00;01;22;08 - 00;01;35;07
Craig Andrews
Today, Gary's primary focus is on helping small business owners achieve success and balance in business and in life. And so, Gary, welcome.

00;01;35;09 - 00;01;38;20
Gary Wilbers
Well, thanks for having me, Cory. I'm excited to be here.

00;01;38;22 - 00;02;02;07
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So, you know, you reached out to me, probably a month ago. You know, and just for those, you know, we met in a group in a mastermind group called Iron Sharpens Iron. It's a Christian, mastermind group for men and, And you reached out and we connected. It was. It was so neat because I feel disconnected from much of my past.

00;02;02;07 - 00;02;13;20
Craig Andrews
You know, I spent, you know, I spent 15 years in the wireless industry and, you know, you know, originally designing the phones that you were selling.

00;02;13;22 - 00;02;32;04
Gary Wilbers
You know, that's a crazy to think about those days. I mean, I got in and then we would have called it the mobile phone industry back in the early 90s. I got in the 1990s. So when it first came the Jefferson City area, and I just looked back at some of those days and can't believe that it's been 30 some years now.

00;02;32;07 - 00;02;59;12
Craig Andrews
I know, and, you know, at Ericsson, I remember standing, you know, we used to have a small building in Research Triangle Park, before we built a big building that looked like a banker's building. And then we built another one next to it. But we were in this small one story. Yeah, real basic building. And so when we had, company wide meetings, we'd just go out in the front lawn and they'd address us, and they were talking about our goal.

00;02;59;14 - 00;03;14;00
Craig Andrews
The goal was to get to the saturation rate, which was 50%. And what that means is they believed they would ring the bell. We'd hit the goal when one out of every two Americans had a mobile phone.

00;03;14;02 - 00;03;34;12
Gary Wilbers
Yeah. And just think, now we're over 100% saturation. I remember the time when I got into it and my dad, he was a good, good man. But of course he worked for the same company for 30 some years. And when I told him I was going to sell mobile phones first, they asked what the heck it was, and then he said, that's just plumb crazy.

00;03;34;14 - 00;03;35;12
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;03;35;14 - 00;03;58;01
Gary Wilbers
Who's going to buy those things? He's say, you know, and you gotta think this is an early 90s. It's it's very much the early adoption era. And, you know, when I first started selling them, you went to business folks because of course they had more money and hopefully their business could be able to pay for it. But it really the change came when really it came to technology.

00;03;58;07 - 00;04;10;23
Gary Wilbers
Instead of people, thinking, oh, it's just that uniqueness. It became that technology, people need it. And then when we increased the coverage area, I mean, that's when the total game changed.

00;04;10;25 - 00;04;35;22
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and for me, I worked for Ericsson. And one of the neat things about working for Ericsson was they are always at least a decade ahead on technology. They were focusing most of their efforts on what people had by 5 or 10 years in the future. And, but I remember one time I observed in Sweden, I was walking through the office on the weekend and I saw some Swedes working.

00;04;35;23 - 00;04;55;07
Craig Andrews
They were hovered around this lab bench, and the one thing I learned was, if you saw Swedes working on the weekend, figure out what they're up to. It's important. And I walked over and I said, guys, and there's a fellow named Lars Nord, that I know. I was like, Lars, what's going on? And he said, we're working on this new wireless standard.

00;04;55;07 - 00;05;16;26
Craig Andrews
It's being, you know, it's by this consortium of five companies. It's Nokia, Ericsson, IBM, Toshiba and Intel. And we're pulling together this new wireless standard to make devices talk to each other. And they said, this is the prototype. We're we're flying it to the United States next week to show the consortium the first working prototype of this radio.

00;05;16;29 - 00;05;41;10
Craig Andrews
Well, that was the original Bluetooth radio. I mean, I'm one of the first people in the world to see the Bluetooth, the first Bluetooth radio. And Ericsson had such a lead and they squandered it. And they did that again and again and again. And the thing that struck me is Ericsson came and go as it came and went as a mobile phone maker while you persisted.

00;05;41;10 - 00;06;07;14
Craig Andrews
You outlived Ericsson. And so I'm a little bit curious. I think, you know, one of the one of the things that we talked about covering today is lessons that you've learned along the road. And obviously there were some lessons Ericsson should have learned. they should still be a dominant player in mobile phones. And they're not they're not even in the game.

00;06;07;17 - 00;06;20;21
Craig Andrews
What are I, I'm interested in from your perspective, how did you see that coming in? What were some of the what were some of the mistakes that you or others were making? And then what were some of the things that just worked and surprised you?

00;06;20;23 - 00;06;45;11
Gary Wilbers
Yeah, I was in the industry for 22 years. So one of the things I saw a lot of change that's happened in the industry that we've just talked about. But one of the biggest things I realized for myself is when I started out, we were the truly that entrepreneur. You were generating the interest. You were really a marketing machine because we were a dealer or an agent, as they called us for the AT&T back in the day.

00;06;45;11 - 00;07;10;28
Gary Wilbers
Southwestern Bell, Cingular. Some people remember those names. So we were a dealer for them, an agent for them. So we had to adjust our business as they adjusted because the problem with the carrier was when they made a change, they thought it was no big deal. I mean, it could make a big impact on our business because we were paid by signing up the customer, getting them on the service, taking care of their service, getting them all set up.

00;07;10;28 - 00;07;31;19
Gary Wilbers
We got a little residual fee from that monthly service after they were on, but our whole goal was to be able to make sure they stayed on the service and if they didn't stay on for at least 12 months, we got charged back. Whatever commission we was paid for signing about for the service. So one of the things I saw really early on was adaptability.

00;07;31;22 - 00;07;52;10
Gary Wilbers
When think about business today, Craig, what do we need to have is adaptability, because what the business world is changing. If we think everything's the same business owners on here, some of them have been in business ten years. Some of them may be 15 years. I've worked with business owners 25 years. But if you're not willing to change, you're going to go out of business.

00;07;52;13 - 00;08;11;12
Gary Wilbers
And I think sometimes we get too stuck and I I'll admit, I had my challenges in at times too. But we have to be willing to adapt and be able to go to where the market's going. So we have to be able to see things. What do we need to see? So adaptability is one of those that I felt like that we became good at.

00;08;11;15 - 00;08;33;08
Gary Wilbers
The other is we were really, truly entrepreneurs because when I talk about marketing, we had to come with the creative ways to get customers to sign up and get them excited about becoming part of the product, because it wasn't early on in the early on, you couldn't just give away a phone. You know, in the mid 90s there became this give away the phone and then sign people up.

00;08;33;12 - 00;08;50;05
Gary Wilbers
But the challenge early on was convincing people that they needed a mobile phone or a wireless phone to have for their service and what it would do for them and how it could be a time saver for so that became the other is, and I think it's true today, still, we have to be a good marketer in our business.

00;08;50;06 - 00;09;09;18
Gary Wilbers
I know you wrote your book, Make Sales Magical, and it's not just about the sales, but it's about putting together the product, the service that you're going to have to get people on. So marketing to me becomes a one of those keys. I still think it's a key today in business that you've got to have good marketing and you've got to understand it because it's change today.

00;09;09;26 - 00;09;18;29
Gary Wilbers
I mean, we can go on social media and do marketing. I mean, back in the day, I did the old TV ads, I did the newspaper ads, radio ads.

00;09;18;29 - 00;09;20;12
Craig Andrews
All those things.

00;09;20;15 - 00;09;27;02
Gary Wilbers
But we set ourself apart differently today. You're doing that via by your business being seen.

00;09;27;02 - 00;09;27;05
Craig Andrews
And.

00;09;27;05 - 00;09;54;23
Gary Wilbers
Known. Depending on what service or product you have, then you have to be able to market that consumer. So those are two big areas that I think are so important. The third one was for myself, is really realizing that I had to grow my own leadership to become a better leader, to grow my company. I told you earlier, when we were just talking offline, I grew the company from two individuals, two people myself and actually my partner.

00;09;54;23 - 00;10;17;09
Gary Wilbers
I had for a few years to 150 employees in the company, and we had 15 locations throughout the area, and we were the biggest dealer in what you would call more of the rural markets of Missouri. But the thing is, early on, I was a direct kind of dominant leader, meaning it had to be done my way and only my way.

00;10;17;13 - 00;10;38;03
Gary Wilbers
You know, it was by force because when I had two, three, 4 or 5, I could control it all. But when I got 10 to 15 to 25 to 50 employees, I had to now do it through others. So my leadership had to totally change. And I think that's one thing we have to look as business owners and entrepreneurs, if we want to grow, we've got to change.

00;10;38;10 - 00;10;40;09
Gary Wilbers
Along with the company.

00;10;40;12 - 00;10;49;24
Craig Andrews
You know, there's there's so much to pick from there. let me start here. What years? Where was it when it was like five employees, roughly.

00;10;49;27 - 00;10;59;27
Gary Wilbers
92, probably 92 and then 92 to 94. We probably had up to 15. at that point in time.

00;11;00;02 - 00;11;23;28
Craig Andrews
You know, it's really interesting. There's there are 80 year cycles that we go through. somebody described is 40 years of a me cycle, followed by 40 years of a we cycle and the management styles change. you know, and so the Me cycle peaked in 84. And so all of your examples were these bigger than life kind of dominant leaders.

00;11;23;28 - 00;11;54;20
Craig Andrews
And you think back to like Lee Iacocca, very respected leader. You know, he was like, I'm large and I'm in charge. And and Wayne wrote his book in 84 and that's how it came across. And so that would have been hard to notice that, you know, the world was changing and leadership had to change because all of your mentors were steeped in any style of leadership that wouldn't come into vogue for another 80 years.

00;11;54;23 - 00;11;57;19
Gary Wilbers
Yeah, that's so true.

00;11;57;22 - 00;11;59;02
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;11;59;04 - 00;12;26;26
Gary Wilbers
So I mean by that is, though, is being willing to adapt and change with that. And that's one thing I saw for myself. I saw that I was actually restricting the business. I was holding it back. But to get that self-awareness, which let's be honest, that's hard for anybody, it's I mean, there's at times, I guarantee you, my wife could tell you, you know, I'm not self-aware on certain things that happens at home, but I become more self-aware.

00;12;26;26 - 00;12;48;13
Gary Wilbers
And when I became more self-aware about myself and people, I ask me, I said, how did you handle 150 employees? Well, number one, I didn't. Yeah, I had about 5 to 7 direct reports that I worked with. And in large corporations they say, oh yeah, they do it all the time. You've probably done it with Ericsson. You know, they was a large corporation, but in small business they do not do that.

00;12;48;20 - 00;12;57;29
Gary Wilbers
So the challenge is they have to be willing are they willing to change themselves to be able to really get to where they want to go. And that's why I truly love the passion of what I'm doing now.

00;12;58;02 - 00;13;15;01
Craig Andrews
Yeah. What? So as as the style of leadership was changing and you were absolutely going through that change, what was happening? Where where did you learn from? How did you how did you know which way to point?

00;13;15;04 - 00;13;42;25
Gary Wilbers
Yeah, I'll be honest. Till I got to business coach, I didn't. I first got in a mastermind group. I was in a group called Tab, the alternate board, and basically learn from other mentors. And it was gentlemen that at the time I thought they was really old because they was probably in their 50s. Well, I'm now in my 50s, so, you know, now I say they weren't so old, you know, but at the time I learned from mentors like that what they were doing in their business, how they were growing it, what their leadership style was.

00;13;42;27 - 00;14;04;15
Gary Wilbers
You know, some of them was great examples. Some of them were just the opposite examples. The the example you didn't want to follow, that was there. But I got myself a business coach and that's where that self-awareness really started saying, okay, I can't do it all. How can I get more help? And then I just continued and when I went through that phase, I went through a different phase.

00;14;04;15 - 00;14;21;11
Gary Wilbers
And I'm sure you know the name Dan Sullivan was strategic coach in the 2000s. I was in a program with him, and I just continue to learn, and people would ask me all the time, because when I was in strategic coach, I had to fly to Chicago to go to my quarterly sessions. And they'd say, why are you doing that?

00;14;21;13 - 00;14;47;23
Gary Wilbers
And it was because I've got to learn and grow and become better. That's what really took my business to that next level, because when we get out of ourselves, then it's not about me. As you talked about. It really becomes about how can I grow this organization and scale this organization and take it to that next level, and also kind of opening up the brain, the mindset to say, wow, I can do this, and I do have the capability of doing it.

00;14;47;26 - 00;15;13;09
Craig Andrews
You know, when things I tell my clients, right, anybody said, please don't copy my marketing. You know, marketers are the worst marketers of themselves. And but part of it and this has been this has been extremely clear to me, is I need a marketer speaking into it myself because I have blind spots. I'm too close to the problem.

00;15;13;12 - 00;15;26;21
Craig Andrews
And I think the same thing is is true. And management, you know, the it's easy to let the ego get in the way and to not invite an outside voice and to help you see what you're missing.

00;15;26;24 - 00;15;47;03
Gary Wilbers
And that's where I would tell business owners, that will be your number one mistake. To not to be able to grow your company will be yourself. You will be your limiting factor. Your self-limiting beliefs will be there. My coach, one of the things he did, he had a W2 exercise and he had me write down, for the next year.

00;15;47;05 - 00;16;09;03
Gary Wilbers
What was the amount of money I wanted to make that year? And not for the business, but what was my salary? And if you want to say your distributions, we were an S corporation and stuff. What was going to be the amount you were going to take home this year to be able to pay? I put a number down that I knew was above what my parents ever made, and I was like at the time, didn't think.

00;16;09;03 - 00;16;29;06
Gary Wilbers
Then he made me write this statement. I don't remember exactly, but it was something like, I believe and I will do everything in my power to achieve this goal that I've set for myself. And then he said, fold it out and put it in your billfold. I may have looked at that once or twice that next year, that next year, 1231 before it was 1231.

00;16;29;06 - 00;16;37;21
Gary Wilbers
But he told me to pull it out. We pulled it out and I looked at the number and he said, did you achieve it or not? We achieved over that amount.

00;16;37;24 - 00;16;38;25
Craig Andrews
Wow.

00;16;38;27 - 00;16;59;07
Gary Wilbers
That self-limiting belief that we have because why? Part of it was it would I would be making more money than my parents. So I can't do that. Yeah. So we have to give ourself the availability is say yes I can. And that's what I feel coaching does. And that's why I love coaching individuals. Today now and working in small businesses.

00;16;59;07 - 00;17;25;07
Gary Wilbers
And that's who my kind of target market is, because I want them to get out of themselves to think about it, but not just themselves of what what they could make, but what they can do for their company and the people they work for. Because one of the things I learned along the way was about positive culture, creating a culture that an environment, one of my greatest things now, Craig, is I have employees that I see and I have some I'm going to tell you, just like anybody else that probably doesn't want to see me.

00;17;25;09 - 00;17;41;25
Gary Wilbers
But now when I see employees, I had one lady last summer come up to me. Her kid was playing ball, saw me walking into the ballpark because I was going to watch one of my cousins and jumped off the seats and stuff, and comes over and says, Gary, it's so great to see you again and sir, and remembers those memories.

00;17;41;25 - 00;18;08;23
Gary Wilbers
Now she is a science teacher and she's doing great things and gives me just a little bit of that credit of saying I inspired in her because we she was a trainer for our company and she was excellent at it. And then the nice thing is, I knew her and I hadn't happened recently, been in the area where she was at, and I knew that someone that had her kids were in her class and says, she's an awesome science teacher.

00;18;08;26 - 00;18;27;13
Gary Wilbers
She's teaching high school, her science, which is not as easy subject as you know. But the thing that's so cool about that is now I get a little bit of that pleasure of saying we made a difference in that person, and that made a difference for her to do great things that she's doing in her life now. That's the key to success in business.

00;18;27;16 - 00;18;44;14
Gary Wilbers
It's not about yourself. It's not about the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It's about what you can create and the legacies that you can create. We're talking about leaders and legacies here. You know, the legacies that you can create for others. And I've had others come up to me and I'll tell you, man makes a good heart town.

00;18;44;17 - 00;19;08;23
Gary Wilbers
It was funny because in onboarding, I used to tell them when they got when I got old, we always had a 401 K and we had a 4% match, and people didn't understand that. We had a lot of young people in their 20s work for us because we were in retail sales and a 4% match. I said one thing I want somebody to do when I'm old and in my rocking chair, I want you to come say, well, you weren't such a bad S.O.B. after all, because that retirement, now I'm retired.

00;19;08;23 - 00;19;24;13
Gary Wilbers
Enjoying that? Yeah. And I wanted them to see the benefits that they could create for themselves. And when I made that change to buy from me to we, and I would even say our company, I think that's when magic started happening and we grew.

00;19;24;15 - 00;20;00;28
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and, you know, one, one thought that I always keep in mind, you know, back to the whole idea of coaching. You know, Michael Jordan, one of the best athletes of all time, he didn't have one coach. He had multiple coaches. And as somebody as talented and as excellent as Michael Jordan sees the need for coaches in his lives, in his life, then there's nobody running a business that doesn't need at least one coach, if not multiple coaches, people who have different strengths.

00;20;01;00 - 00;20;21;13
Gary Wilbers
Yes, I agree totally with that because that's what's going to make yourself better. And that's why Michael Jordan, it that's why he came became one of the elites. And you read about, Jerry rice or any of these guys, they had multiple coaches because they knew that made them better. Not only on the field but also in life.

00;20;21;13 - 00;20;38;09
Gary Wilbers
And I think that's the key to and that's one area I get into. And you and I are in the mastermind together, and ours is a Christian mastermind. As you talked about, but it's about business and life. And to many business owners, I was down that path early on in my life that I was going all about the success.

00;20;38;12 - 00;20;51;27
Gary Wilbers
It's really about the significance that you want to really attain in your life. You know who's going to show up when that time comes for you that you need that extra person, and when you make significance that shows up for you.

00;20;52;00 - 00;21;14;03
Craig Andrews
Well, there's something you do that ties into significance. And you say it also impacted your company culture. And that's the Special Olympics. Can't tell us what what got you involved. And I, I mean, I don't know a single person on earth that's anti Special Olympics. But most of us, like me are kind of like cheering from the distance.

00;21;14;05 - 00;21;17;12
Craig Andrews
What made you get in and get up close to it.

00;21;17;14 - 00;21;39;27
Gary Wilbers
Well interesting story. I'll tell the short version 1994 I in our 1991 I install a car phone for the new Special Olympics Missouri executive director. At that time we called him now the president and CEO of that organization here in Missouri, and he came in from Minnesota and I installed his car phone. Still knows it was a Novotel crew with some of them crazy things you can still remember and know.

00;21;39;29 - 00;21;57;14
Gary Wilbers
And I back then you had to have the vehicle for a whole day. So I took him back to work, brought picked him up afterwards. So when it was all done, had a lot of conversation, told me it was with Special Olympics. We got the activation. So that's how we got paid. We actually charge back then. You charge for the installation.

00;21;57;14 - 00;22;24;11
Gary Wilbers
But I said because it was a nonprofit, no charge will take care of that. Well, he was new to Jefferson City, so we kept seeing each other in a few different places. 1994 he finally convinced me to go to a Special Olympics game, and that is when I got hooked. we were down at Fort Leonard Wood. At that time, you could get on the military bases before 2001 and had a stealth bomber come across the all the military personnel was cheering on the athletes and stuff.

00;22;24;12 - 00;22;48;07
Gary Wilbers
I literally had hair stand up on my arm, and then I volunteered the next day and I was kind of hooked from there. But every year I would go back to help on these events, and the only challenge was the day before the event. I would think, oh, I got so much to do, I shouldn't go. The day after I went to the event, driving home, I would not care about what happened and what was going on in the business, because I would got so much joy from participating.

00;22;48;10 - 00;23;08;17
Gary Wilbers
Then we got our team involved, we got them doing fundraising events and we put it within our company. We did the polar plunges, and raise money for Special Olympics. And as we got our team involved, eventually they invited me to be on the Special Olympics, Missouri Board, Statewide board, and I got involved in that. And in 2012, I sold my company.

00;23;08;17 - 00;23;29;20
Gary Wilbers
In 2013, I had the president and CEO, and at that time and the board president come to me and asked me if I would chair the capital campaign because we built wanted to build a $60.5 million training facility for the athletes here in the state of Missouri. Of course, they knew I had just sold the business, so they thought I had a little more time.

00;23;29;22 - 00;23;51;07
Gary Wilbers
I took on that challenge. took us about five and a half years to get there. It was a three year plan that took about five and a half years, but between the people and I don't want to take credit whatsoever, but I was I was more or less the cheerleader. We got it across the finish line and we opened that facility.

00;23;51;10 - 00;24;10;25
Gary Wilbers
and that was one of the proudest days of my life, because seeing the athletes faces and one of the things we always told them it was going to be their home and seeing their faces when they walked in that facility and the the how proud they were was just amazing. Craig and I'm still on the statewide board.

00;24;10;25 - 00;24;32;05
Gary Wilbers
And yet today I've got another two year term and then I'll be going off the board. But what it is, it's the athletes that make the difference, because the saying that I always say when I got interviewed about this was the athletes. They take life as it comes myself. I sometimes get too much blinder. You know, I don't I get too serious.

00;24;32;05 - 00;24;51;11
Gary Wilbers
And to go after this goal, being able to achieve that, the athletes appreciate you for who you are when they see you. Gary, it's so great to see you. They're just happy to see you. And I truly think they were put on this earth, for God created them to help us learn how to live better. Because what do they do?

00;24;51;13 - 00;25;12;27
Gary Wilbers
They know how to live. They take the moment that they have and you don't have to feel sorry for them at all. Instead, we're giving them opportunities to truly live. And what's happened with Special Olympics? We've seen that if they participate in Special Olympics, they are. There's 60% of the athletes that are in Special Olympics. Missouri have a job well, and they're whatever.

00;25;12;27 - 00;25;36;26
Gary Wilbers
You're in the workforce, you take their population. That's not in Special Olympics. It's around 12 to 14%. So the difference it makes by them doing sports and now we're not doing just sports, we're doing health. We're doing a lot of other things. It's really training for life and that's what we called our campus was the Missouri Special Olympics Training for life campus, because we want to train them for life, because they can go out and make a difference in their community.

00;25;36;27 - 00;25;55;06
Gary Wilbers
My golf partner, my unified golf partner, we've been playing almost 20 years together. Now he works at Culvers. He cleans the tables, busses them, but no one. Everyone knows Keith, if you go in that culvers and if you've gone in more than one time, he knows you and he always welcomes people.

00;25;55;09 - 00;26;05;17
Craig Andrews
So for the for the uninformed, Culver's is a it's like a burger joint that's famous for their milkshakes or ice cream. Yes.

00;26;05;19 - 00;26;24;02
Gary Wilbers
shakes ice cream. And he just. He works there. He's been working there, I don't know, ten plus years. And he just one of those individuals that just. He lights up a room and stuff. Because. Why? He's just glad to see people and he's always saying hi. And we're golf partners now. We play unified golf in the Special Olympics, and it's one of my greatest thrills to do.

00;26;24;02 - 00;26;33;12
Gary Wilbers
And he actually called me yesterday and he said, when are we going to go play golf again? Because we got to practice that for our upcoming regional tournament that's coming up. And later this year.

00;26;33;14 - 00;26;57;15
Craig Andrews
Yeah, that's so awesome. You know, there's one thing you mentioned earlier where we're run long, but I want to make sure we cover this because I think you have a unique insight. And, you know, I was watching something recently about how somebody who has a manufacturing business where they ship through Amazon and how Amazon is just really made their life hard.

00;26;57;17 - 00;27;25;06
Craig Andrews
And I look at people who build businesses on platforms. Amazon is a platform. YouTube is a platform. you know, you have these different platforms and you're kind of at the mercy of them. You lift that. Your platform was AT&T and you know, and what you said earlier, they basically, you were taking all the risk had to do the you had to do their marketing for them.

00;27;25;08 - 00;27;48;27
Craig Andrews
You had to assume the first year's risk that they, you know, would stay on as a customer. And that would be, you know, from one angle, it's nice to be able to hitch a wagon to such a large platform, but it's very limiting. And so what would be your advice? You know, one, I guess a couple questions. One, should people avoid hitching their wagon to a big platform?

00;27;48;27 - 00;27;57;19
Craig Andrews
Should they build their own platform? Or if or if you know, what would you recommend to people that do hook up to platforms?

00;27;57;21 - 00;28;15;15
Gary Wilbers
I think the biggest thing if you hook up to a platform, just know that that platform. Don't let that be your only source if at all possible. If there's a ways that you can also build, because a lot of times, just like in certain things, you can build your platform, but you can have that one item that you're working with.

00;28;15;19 - 00;28;38;27
Gary Wilbers
But how can you build a subsidiary right along with that? That's when I had my business. I started some other subsidiary businesses because it made sense. Instead of just being only in one direction. So that could be an option. For some. That may be too much. If that's too much, then it's about how can I still capture the customer to be able to get them what they need?

00;28;38;29 - 00;28;55;27
Gary Wilbers
So one of the ways that we did this is like we came up with other products and services. Now your agreements got to allow you to do that. But like we had our own protection program and that was kind of where if people ended up dropping their phone or breaking it, we could actually protect it became another revenue source.

00;28;56;01 - 00;29;15;28
Gary Wilbers
So always think about how can you get additional revenue. You're the entrepreneur, so you're the person that's got to think of new ways and get creative on being able to create that. And then, like anyone, if you're hooked up with a platform, can you capture that information to everyone? To them wants to say, email's dead, email's not dead.

00;29;16;01 - 00;29;41;04
Gary Wilbers
Yeah. You know, email us still goes out and it goes out every time. The only problem is if you can't capture any of that information, if that platform shuts down, you're not going to be able to take care of it. But if you have your own platform where you're able to capture that information first and maybe then it goes there platform, that would be my suggestion to you to always think creatively, so you can have that direct contact with the customer.

00;29;41;10 - 00;29;56;07
Gary Wilbers
Some of these big platforms make it very hard as we know. You know Amazon's one. You know they're going to take the information and they're not going to send you. They're going to you're going to tell you how many sales you had and get paid. But you have to know is there another way to create. Could I be selling this myself?

00;29;56;09 - 00;30;15;09
Gary Wilbers
All my books are on Amazon two that I sell, but I also sell them individually, so I still have that capability that it's not on just one platform. And that's the only thing that's available to me. So that way if I want to do some marketing about my book, I still have the capability to do it myself. So that would be my suggestion to him.

00;30;15;09 - 00;30;24;27
Gary Wilbers
Either create a dual lane or figure out if you're going one lane, what options can you take off of that to create other opportunities for yourself?

00;30;25;00 - 00;31;03;13
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, that's so wise because there are and I would just address it from a marketing standpoint, you know, if, if you have all of your ad spend on Google, you've got a problem, you know, you need to, you know, or if you have it all in Facebook or, you know, wherever you've got a problem, you need to have a diverse you need a diverse system that if, if one day Google or Amazon or Facebook wakes up and decides they don't like you, they can't ruin your business.

00;31;03;15 - 00;31;29;21
Gary Wilbers
And I've seen that happen to too many. And you have those conversations with people and it's like, you know, and it's when it's really good that that's the challenge is when you're really making good money from that platform, it's tough to think about, oh, I need to have another option. But that's the best time to think about the option, because now you've got some time and money to spend on another option that's available to you, and that'll keep you in business long term.

00;31;29;27 - 00;31;50;17
Gary Wilbers
And that's the challenge. Shane. We just talked about earlier. When people get too tight in the thinking, oh, this business, it's exactly how it was. Business is changing. You know, with AI and everything else that's coming out. The next 5 to 10 years, business is going to change immensely. On what's expected in customer service. So you're going to have to change how you're doing your customer service.

00;31;50;17 - 00;32;08;20
Gary Wilbers
I hear people all the time said, oh, I'm not going to have somebody else do it. But the problem is there's fewer employees, so we're going to have to find ways to get creative. Is employers that still give great service, but to use the tools and resources that's out there and that's available to us, and that's called efficiency.

00;32;08;23 - 00;32;19;22
Gary Wilbers
And that will help your business and most likely, if you do it right, you'll save money by doing the efficient things. And then your bottom line is going to grow instead of it shrinking.

00;32;19;25 - 00;32;44;26
Craig Andrews
You know, when one of the things that I like to keep in mind in that as well is, you know, when you're on a platform, you know, inevitably they have these conversations where the partner, you know, they call you partner, you, hey, we've got new information for for our partners. And one of the questions I always like to ask if they're making a change, are they making this change because they think it's better for me?

00;32;44;29 - 00;32;48;17
Craig Andrews
Or are they making this change because they think it's better for them?

00;32;48;19 - 00;33;07;04
Gary Wilbers
Well, I'm smiling. I'm laughing because I'm telling you that's exactly how AT&T would do it. But when it was making a change for them, it was making it worse for me. And we had to become the creatives to figure out. That is, I'll never forget being in Dallas, Texas on my birthday one time and they're talking about a new program.

00;33;07;04 - 00;33;22;25
Gary Wilbers
They come out and how great it is. We're going to have to remodel our stores. And they had all the fixtures and carpet, everything. It was going to be really simple for us, but it's going to cost us $150,000. A store times that by 15, you know, and I was debt free company at this point in time. It's 2011.

00;33;22;25 - 00;33;40;20
Gary Wilbers
I'm not sure if I want to continue in the industry or not. And they're telling us how great this was going to be for us. And they also we're going to take away some other products and services that we could offer third party that no longer we could. And so I've been there that and I'm telling you your your question is right.

00;33;40;22 - 00;33;51;28
Gary Wilbers
If they're coming up with it, normally there's something in the background that's going to be a catch you for the other person and stuff. And as an agent we experience that all the time.

00;33;52;00 - 00;34;14;28
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah. And I I'm a HubSpot partner. I'm less of a partner than I used to be. And I can tell you, when I first became a partner, I really felt like the things they were rolling out was they understood that, you know, if they made things better for me, my success led to their success. Now they're a bigger brand, they're a bigger platform.

00;34;15;00 - 00;34;44;08
Craig Andrews
And they've become kind of, kind of transparent in in the most recent training that they put out and basically like, yeah, this is going to make us a lot more money and should make you more money to. Yeah. but it's it's a different tone. Yeah. And I think that's just and it's been a good platform I think, for anybody, you know, I couldn't imagine business without connecting to that platform.

00;34;44;08 - 00;35;04;07
Craig Andrews
It's been a good platform for me. But I think getting by in business, if you're dependent upon someone else, you know, you have to ask yourself, what would happen if I was locked out of this platform tomorrow? What what would that do to my business? And if the answer is bad, you need to start thinking about how to respond.

00;35;04;09 - 00;35;15;16
Gary Wilbers
I think that's great advice there, because you've got to know. You've got to know the options that you have available in your business. Yeah. Otherwise it's too late. If it's after the fact.

00;35;15;18 - 00;35;34;09
Craig Andrews
Well, Gary, you've you've lived it. You've lived it with, I've been on one side of the AT&T story and you've been on the other side. And I can tell you they're a tough, tough customer. And so kudos to you for succeeding in with that partner. because they're a tough one.

00;35;34;11 - 00;35;58;04
Gary Wilbers
Yeah. It was it was a fun ride for a long time. I will tell you, in 2011, I wrote a goal down that I was going to sell the business by the end of 2012. I can sit here today and tell you. 1231 2012, we, sold that business. but I can tell you from the 3 to 6 months that we were through that process, there was so many hills and valleys that it was unbelievable.

00;35;58;04 - 00;36;15;10
Gary Wilbers
Maybe that's part of the reason I leave mountains up in the background of my, screen. Because, man, it was a challenge to get to that day of 1231, 2012. But when I did, I was very happy. And I had people ask me because I was in it for 22 years and they were like, what are you going to do now?

00;36;15;13 - 00;36;33;26
Gary Wilbers
And it's like, I'm going to follow some of my passion. And that's where I want to help other small business owners grow their business. And that's where I get my greatest satisfaction. Now, when somebody says, had a client last year that had $1 million, profit in his business. Wow. And I was only a small part of that.

00;36;33;29 - 00;36;55;21
Gary Wilbers
But man, he doesn't have to tell me, but I can feel good about. I helped him achieve that because when we started, he was at lower gross margins. He's doubled his gross margin since we've started. He's doubled his revenue that's coming in, but he's done it, through his people. But I've been able to help him see a different side than when he first started.

00;36;55;21 - 00;37;18;10
Gary Wilbers
And that's what's so fun now to see. And he's good to his people and he's got a great business going. And that's what I love to see too, and still has kept the family intact at the same time. And I think that's the key to success. That's true significance because a lot of business owners, entrepreneur, first become, you know, where it's all about business and they forget the other side of the business.

00;37;18;11 - 00;37;30;07
Gary Wilbers
It's life. And we've got to remember to live too, because man, it goes by fast. I don't know about you, Craig, but I'm 56 and I can't believe I'm 56. You know, it's like life goes very, very fast.

00;37;30;09 - 00;37;42;25
Craig Andrews
It does indeed. Well, Gary, this has been a great discussion. obviously anybody needs coaching or anybody thinking about coaching should reach out to you. Where? How did they reach you?

00;37;42;27 - 00;38;00;17
Gary Wilbers
Well, they can reach me two different ways. One is they can just do email and we'll put that in notes. It's G Wilbur's at go ascend up biz and go ascend a little bit unique. So we'll have that in show notes and stuff. And and another great way is if you really want to see where your business is at and you want some feedback on that.

00;38;00;24 - 00;38;20;23
Gary Wilbers
I have a business assessment, and we'll put that in show notes that they can access that business assessment. It takes about ten minutes to do. You're going to have to think a little bit. It's not easy. But what I'll do is if you share with us that you've been on this podcast, I'll share with you and our my time of how you can kind of grow and scale your business looking at those levers.

00;38;20;23 - 00;38;44;04
Gary Wilbers
And we look at kind of six main areas in your business of marketing, sales, overhead, all those type of things in your business. And I think that's one way that people can really get a gauge of where is their business at in a business assessment, we'll put that in show notes so they can gather that information, because trying to say that long I yeah, no one's able to write it down at this point in time anyway.

00;38;44;04 - 00;38;47;07
Gary Wilbers
But it's called a business assessment and we'll put that in show notes.

00;38;47;09 - 00;38;50;04
Craig Andrews
Excellent. Well Gary, thanks for being on leaders and Legacies.

00;38;50;07 - 00;39;13;26
Gary Wilbers
Craig. Thanks for having me. It's been great getting to know you, and I appreciate the work you're doing because you're making a difference. And as I told you, I read your book. Hope that Won't Die. And I would recommend to anyone I've read this other book to make sales magical, but I'm going to tell you, your book, I did that over my vacation, and as I told you earlier, it made a difference for me and a challenge that I'm having right now.

00;39;14;03 - 00;39;21;00
Gary Wilbers
And that's why we write books and share information is to make a difference in people's lives. So thank you for what you're doing in that area.

00;39;21;03 - 00;39;24;10
Craig Andrews
Absolutely.

00;39;24;10 - 00;39;53;06
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Alize for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this episode on social media.

00;39;53;08 - 00;40;16;18
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest, tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.

00;40;16;20 - 00;42;27;04
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe your thumbs up! Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me. It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Alize for me.com. or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.