Gail Martino, founder of Leapfrog Advisory, dives deep into her unique career journey and insights into leadership and technology. Starting with her unexpected role sniffing armpits at Gillette to evaluate deodorant efficacy, Gail explores the intersection of scientific evaluation and product development. She details her experiences at major companies like Procter & Gamble and Unilever, emphasizing how a blend of curiosity and scientific rigor can lead to innovation.

Throughout the podcast, Gail highlights the critical role of staying ahead in technology to maintain competitive edge. She discusses her approach to helping businesses navigate rapid technological changes and the importance of strategic partnerships and proactive innovation. By merging her technical expertise and leadership skills, Gail provides valuable lessons on preparing businesses for future challenges and ensuring they are not caught off-guard by industry shifts.

Want to learn more about Gail Martino's work? Check out their website at https://Leapfrog-advisory.com.

Connect with Gail Martino on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/gailmartino/.

Key Points with Time Stamps:

• [00:01:11-00:01:23] Gail's unique introduction to leadership through sensory science.
• [00:05:37-00:05:55] Insights into the science of smell and product testing.
• [00:09:01-00:09:32] Gail discusses the impact of innovative technologies on competitive advantage.
• [00:11:23-00:12:30] Gail's role in strategic planning and crisis management for tech advancements.
• [00:14:29-00:14:58] Preparation vs. reaction: Gail's strategy for leadership in technology.
• [00:20:16-00:24:52] Future of AI in business: Gail debates the hype versus practical application.

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment of my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on the show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;01;11;21
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Gail Martino. She's the founder of the Leapfrog Advisory. Now, today's episode. This is going to sound bizarre, but Gail has sniffed armpits for a living. And believe it or not, this is going to have meaning to you, so stay tuned.

00;01;11;21 - 00;01;17;16
Craig Andrews
her specialty is helping companies get the technology they need to remain competitive.

00;01;17;18 - 00;01;23;02
Craig Andrews
And yes, we will tie sniffing armpits into that technology pursuit.

00;01;23;02 - 00;01;34;28
Craig Andrews
she has degrees from both Boston College and MIT, and she's worked in senior roles at Procter and Gamble, Unilever and other companies. So with that, Gail, welcome.

00;01;35;00 - 00;01;37;15
Gail Martino
Thank you so much, Craig.

00;01;37;17 - 00;01;44;24
Craig Andrews
So, you know, we we got to start with the armpits. What's what's the story with the armpits okay.

00;01;44;27 - 00;02;17;29
Gail Martino
All right. So that that story goes back a while to when I was first starting as a product developer. Now, imagine I was a scientist in early stage R&D. And as a scientist, you're evaluating different technologies, new technologies that are coming on board, and you have to evaluate whether it works or not. Well, at the Gillette Company, I was working in the deodorants group.

00;02;18;01 - 00;02;32;24
Gail Martino
And so that means that you're talking about armpits a lot. And one day I was tapped on the shoulder and they said, Gail, you know, you have a background. I have a neuroscience background. So,

00;02;32;24 - 00;02;40;15
Gail Martino
we need your help on this project. I said, sure, whatever. Whatever you want to do. I said, okay,

00;02;40;15 - 00;02;50;18
Gail Martino
come into this room, and in this room there's a line of men and they're all shirtless.

00;02;50;20 - 00;03;11;26
Gail Martino
And my job was to smell each armpit of each man and then note the the intensity of the odor in each armpit. And the reason that you do that is because we had created some new deodorant,

00;03;11;26 - 00;03;21;09
Gail Martino
prototypes. And then they get applied on one side and not on the other, and and so forth. So part of the,

00;03;21;09 - 00;03;27;26
Gail Martino
the standard protocol is to have sniffers sniff the,

00;03;27;26 - 00;03;38;09
Gail Martino
the armpits, both at the beginning of the day and at the end of the day, to see if, you know, you can still smell the,

00;03;38;09 - 00;03;40;19
Gail Martino
the male odor before and after treatment.

00;03;40;20 - 00;03;53;15
Gail Martino
So this is the kind of thing that, you know, if you've never been a product developer, if you've never worked in personal care, this doesn't even seem like a job.

00;03;53;15 - 00;04;04;06
Gail Martino
but in fact, it's a really important part of evaluating new technologies and, testing their efficacy so that you can have,

00;04;04;06 - 00;04;06;17
Gail Martino
claims on the product.

00;04;06;20 - 00;04;26;00
Craig Andrews
So I'm picturing, like two groups of people. There's one group of listeners, they're sitting there saying, oh, I could get paid to go sniff a bunch of shirtless men. And they're like, sign me up. And I'm picturing another group of people are like, oh my goodness, that's disgusting. You couldn't pay me enough. what's it like in rehab all day?

00;04;26;02 - 00;04;33;15
Gail Martino
Well, you know, it's funny you should say this because I. You know, I've never done anything like this before, right? I,

00;04;33;15 - 00;04;56;16
Gail Martino
just walk in and pretty, you know, it's early in my career. Very naive. And as I was sniffing each one of the men, I noticed something that shocked me. Normally you think of male odor and you think, oh, my God, you know, I can't, it's going to knock your head back.

00;04;56;20 - 00;05;01;21
Gail Martino
I mean, this was middle of July. These guys just got off. Off the tee,

00;05;01;21 - 00;05;06;23
Gail Martino
in Boston to come in, come into the lab.

00;05;06;25 - 00;05;08;10
Craig Andrews
The T is o.

00;05;08;11 - 00;05;09;27
Gail Martino
The T is the subway.

00;05;10;00 - 00;05;10;18
Craig Andrews
got all right.

00;05;10;19 - 00;05;37;04
Gail Martino
And they're coming off the subway in the middle of July, and you can just imagine what it's how fragrant it is. But as I went man to man and picked to pick. I found that some men really smelled great. You know, their natural scent smelled great, and others didn't smell great. Now, my job was only to say how the intensity and not whether I liked it or not.

00;05;37;04 - 00;05;55;04
Gail Martino
I kept that part to myself. But I was fascinated. And, And there's actually some, some science to explain why some people smell odor, actually smells, you know, good to you and others don't. So it's interesting.

00;05;55;07 - 00;05;56;16
Craig Andrews
Reminds me of the line,

00;05;56;16 - 00;06;01;19
Craig Andrews
their crap doesn't stink. so the,

00;06;01;19 - 00;06;17;20
Craig Andrews
One of the challenges I see in that is smell is very subjective. I mean, I know people have tried to make it objective, but smell is very subjective of. And so were you the learned sniffer or did they have other sniffers?

00;06;17;22 - 00;06;24;13
Gail Martino
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. There. There was a team, you know, and it's a team that was blind to,

00;06;24;13 - 00;06;36;13
Gail Martino
you know, which men received, which product or control or experimental. And we in, in which armpit and

00;06;36;13 - 00;06;48;10
Gail Martino
and the way that you get around that is that it just say what is the intensity and you can get some training in that, you know, is it just a low level medium and you have to read it.

00;06;48;13 - 00;06;56;20
Gail Martino
And then everyone does that in a consistent way. And that's, that's how it's it's performed.

00;06;56;23 - 00;07;02;22
Craig Andrews
What about bias. Did the did the good looking men inevitably smell better?

00;07;02;24 - 00;07;08;21
Gail Martino
God I you know I don't I don't remember that, but I, I don't think so.

00;07;08;21 - 00;07;11;05
Gail Martino
I think it's independent.

00;07;11;08 - 00;07;22;06
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, it's. Are you familiar? You're probably familiar with student t distributions. The, you know, it's a statistical tool.

00;07;22;06 - 00;07;26;08
Craig Andrews
and those were, those were generated. Those were created by the Guinness brewery.

00;07;26;08 - 00;07;42;06
Craig Andrews
at the time, Guinness was, very secretive. They wouldn't allow the the employees to publish things. And so some rogue employee came up with this way of doing small sample sizes and then published in the journal under student T, and that's the origin of it.

00;07;42;06 - 00;08;04;06
Craig Andrews
But it's, you know, if you think about the problem there is you can't get a very big sample. You can't have somebody sit there and drink 40 or 50 beers and have any any insight on how the 40th beer tasted relative to the first, because they're, you know, smashed. And so they came up with a sampling way of, of,

00;08;04;06 - 00;08;10;05
Craig Andrews
smaller sample sizes that helped statistical process control.

00;08;10;07 - 00;08;21;29
Craig Andrews
And this I know this just feels similar. When you were talking about it, it would seem it just there's it seems like there's a lot of room for subjectivity, and it seems like it's easy to get it wrong.

00;08;22;02 - 00;08;24;22
Gail Martino
But yeah, you would think so.

00;08;24;22 - 00;08;26;21
Gail Martino
except that,

00;08;26;21 - 00;08;33;19
Gail Martino
there's a whole history of psychophysics where you're making very simple,

00;08;33;19 - 00;08;48;18
Gail Martino
evaluations over and over and, and, and you start to see patterns and that and those patterns are consistent. and then there's a whole science,

00;08;48;18 - 00;08;56;16
Gail Martino
of sensory science in which you can, you know, train people so that they can give,

00;08;56;16 - 00;09;00;29
Gail Martino
very consistent ratings.

00;09;01;01 - 00;09;27;28
Gail Martino
yeah. And this, and, and that's used widely, you know, and in food and in personal care. Yeah. So but it's a but, you know, it's a, it's a story about, you know, how do you evaluate a new technology and make sure that your technologies are, are competitive in the marketplace?

00;09;27;28 - 00;09;31;12
Gail Martino
and a lot of people don't realize what goes goes into it

00;09;31;12 - 00;09;32;12
Gail Martino
in the background.

00;09;32;12 - 00;09;36;01
Gail Martino
And that was one of my, one of my earliest assignments.

00;09;36;03 - 00;09;45;08
Craig Andrews
You know. So what was the so in that example, what was the technology? Were, you guys were evaluating and what was the outcome?

00;09;45;10 - 00;10;02;03
Gail Martino
Yeah. So, it was it was a technology to improve the longevity of of the fragrance within, within the formulation. So it could last longer. And the idea was to get,

00;10;02;03 - 00;10;19;06
Gail Martino
a longer lasting claim. And could that claim be supported with that technology? And I believe this is so long ago now, but I believe that that technology ended up in and,

00;10;19;06 - 00;10;23;17
Gail Martino
the Gillette's series that they, you know, one of their,

00;10;23;17 - 00;10;25;25
Gail Martino
deodorant brands.

00;10;25;27 - 00;10;26;16
Craig Andrews
You know, as

00;10;26;16 - 00;10;54;25
Craig Andrews
you're talking it, I'm taken back to a day. It was in the late 90s. I was working for Ericsson, who used to make mobile phones, and I was over in Sweden, and I saw some Swedes working over the weekend, and Swedes never work over the weekend. So when I saw Swedes working on the weekend, I always found out what they were working on and they showed me and they it was a brand new Nokia 6100 phone.

00;10;54;25 - 00;11;22;28
Craig Andrews
That was that was like the original one where Nokia took off. And I just remember this incredibly sinking feeling in my gut because I knew everything we had in our pipeline. And I'm looking at this phone and there is nothing in our pipeline that could compete with it. And even if we started that day, best case scenario, we were looking at 18 months out before we could respond to that.

00;11;23;01 - 00;11;27;08
Craig Andrews
And that just felt horrible.

00;11;27;10 - 00;11;51;01
Gail Martino
Yeah. And you know, that experience that you had is a very common one that I receive from clients. So they there's they have a concern about growing competitively. Maybe the market has changed, maybe their competitor has come out with something that,

00;11;51;01 - 00;11;53;07
Gail Martino
that is, is disruptive.

00;11;53;07 - 00;12;12;16
Gail Martino
and they need an answer for that. And those are the kinds of problems where people call me and try to I try to help them identify partners where they could, you know, shore up to shore up that gap.

00;12;12;18 - 00;12;25;03
Gail Martino
So there may be, a potential, partnership where they can, you know, get to,

00;12;25;03 - 00;12;30;17
Gail Martino
a potential solution more, more quickly than the 18 months.

00;12;30;19 - 00;12;38;28
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So how does that. I guess there's two sides of this problem. There's one side of,

00;12;38;28 - 00;12;51;03
Craig Andrews
you got caught with your shorts down, and you need to catch up quickly. The other part of it is, what do you do to make sure you don't get caught with your shorts down? Do you? Do you address that side of the equation?

00;12;51;05 - 00;13;24;05
Gail Martino
Well, yeah. absolutely. And you know, what we were just talking about is something more reactive, right? Something has changed in, in the marketplace. And I have to do something quickly. the other is being proactive. And that's another way that I've, I've worked with, with clients. So in that case, perhaps out there, like, for example, this year everybody's talking about I how can we how can we incorporate AI?

00;13;24;12 - 00;13;38;21
Gail Martino
what's the ROI for AI for, for me and there because they're they're seeing that things are changing ways of working are changing.

00;13;38;21 - 00;13;51;09
Gail Martino
and they need to keep up and they want to be more proactive about it. And in that case, there's a number of things that you can that you can do. You can help bring on board,

00;13;51;09 - 00;13;53;13
Gail Martino
new capabilities.

00;13;53;16 - 00;13;56;18
Gail Martino
You can help them, help them.

00;13;56;18 - 00;13;59;07
Gail Martino
build those capabilities,

00;13;59;07 - 00;14;17;29
Gail Martino
develop an eco system so that when they need certain skills that are not part of their core, they can bring them in all of those. Those are all ways that you can you can shore things up. So that you can retain that,

00;14;17;29 - 00;14;22;06
Gail Martino
that skills advantage, a competitive advantage or a technology advantage.

00;14;22;08 - 00;14;25;07
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So,

00;14;29;16 - 00;14;46;19
Craig Andrews
What do you see when, you know, in different roles, different companies that you've worked with, what do you see in the difference between the companies that, you know, somehow just managed to, stay up,

00;14;46;19 - 00;14;54;23
Craig Andrews
compared to other companies that, that get blindsided too often and fall behind?

00;14;54;26 - 00;14;58;04
Gail Martino
Yeah. Preparation is is,

00;14;58;04 - 00;15;27;18
Gail Martino
is always the best, right. So I've been fortunate to have worked with companies that have a, that have a front end of, of innovation. So there's always new technologies coming in. There are either being developed internally or they're being brought in externally. And both of those can kind of live in,

00;15;27;18 - 00;15;32;24
Gail Martino
in, in R&D and be and be proved out.

00;15;32;26 - 00;15;40;27
Gail Martino
Some of the washouts that I've seen is, is a

00;15;40;27 - 00;16;09;26
Gail Martino
like for example, a not invented here mindset, not invented here is a great you know, if you're an R&D scientist, you want to come up with great things, right? So not invented here is a great approach to have as a scientist because you want to out how do, you know what what exists.

00;16;09;29 - 00;16;32;13
Gail Martino
But it's not a great way to run a business. because when you're running a business, you need to, you need to figure out, okay, you know, good ideas could come, come from different places. And I've got to bring them in at the right time and in the right way from my business.

00;16;32;13 - 00;16;34;10
Gail Martino
for,

00;16;34;10 - 00;16;37;04
Gail Martino
for for it to grow.

00;16;37;06 - 00;17;04;15
Craig Andrews
So. Yeah. You know, if I go back to the Nokia example and I'm trying to remember what year that was or this 97 or 98, I think it was probably. Yeah, it was one of those years. But 9 or 10 years later the iPhone came out. And that sinking feeling that I experienced at Ericsson, who was at that point no longer on the mobile phone, but, where they no, no, they were still in, but barely,

00;17;04;15 - 00;17;08;17
Craig Andrews
they had done joint venture with Sony Ericsson and maybe it was even the Sony brand at that point.

00;17;08;17 - 00;17;10;27
Craig Andrews
But Ericsson,

00;17;10;27 - 00;17;21;13
Craig Andrews
but Nokia had gotten blindsided. They had all the money in the world to respond. They, and they were clearly competent. They were number one at one

00;17;21;13 - 00;17;27;29
Craig Andrews
was right around that time. They had about 50% market share, you know, so highly competent, highly,

00;17;27;29 - 00;17;33;20
Craig Andrews
lots of capital to work with. And they could just never catch up.

00;17;33;22 - 00;17;50;07
Craig Andrews
And now you can't buy a Nokia phone. They went from there. They went from 50% market share to nonexistent because they got blindsided by a change in technology, and they just couldn't respond.

00;17;50;10 - 00;18;03;04
Craig Andrews
asking you to diagnose something you haven't studied. But what are factors that lead to that? You know, you've been fortunate to be at companies that have been able to respond. What are some of the things that keep people from responding?

00;18;03;06 - 00;18;05;15
Gail Martino
so sometimes it's business model,

00;18;05;15 - 00;18;09;29
Gail Martino
sometimes it's culture. And I will give you an example from,

00;18;09;29 - 00;18;10;29
Gail Martino
when I worked at,

00;18;10;29 - 00;18;12;00
Gail Martino
when I worked on,

00;18;12;00 - 00;18;21;02
Gail Martino
Oral-B, which is like toothbrushes. So it's Oral-B and Braun. So Oral-B made the manual toothbrushes and Braun made the,

00;18;21;02 - 00;18;25;08
Gail Martino
professional series, the electric toothbrushes. Now,

00;18;25;08 - 00;18;27;05
Gail Martino
when when I was working at

00;18;27;05 - 00;18;38;17
Gail Martino
showed up in, in R&D, I was literally sitting with the oral care team, which literally sat next to the Duracell team.

00;18;38;20 - 00;18;41;08
Gail Martino
Right. So the idea of me.

00;18;41;12 - 00;18;48;09
Craig Andrews
So being batteries just, just making sure batteries said batteries for toothbrushes were next, next to each other.

00;18;48;11 - 00;18;56;29
Gail Martino
Correct. So that that idea of making a battery powered powered brush existed. Right. So that had been

00;18;56;29 - 00;19;01;12
Gail Martino
discussed. However,

00;19;01;12 - 00;19;23;15
Gail Martino
it took a spin brush to come out to really kind of change the way and, and the reason for that was simply that, you know, Gillette, which was the parent company of Oral-B and Braun at the time, wanted to focus on their on their high end.

00;19;23;15 - 00;19;29;26
Gail Martino
And there was nothing that that performed better clinically than the high end,

00;19;29;26 - 00;19;43;29
Gail Martino
brushes. However, it turns out that consumers want something that's a little high end, but they didn't want to pay a high end price for it. But they felt the benefit,

00;19;43;29 - 00;19;48;02
Gail Martino
cleanliness in their teeth. And it was kind of fun to use and and so forth.

00;19;48;04 - 00;19;50;00
Gail Martino
And, you know, so then,

00;19;50;00 - 00;19;57;08
Gail Martino
you know, Oral-B Braun had had to respond to that. Many companies have experienced this. But,

00;19;57;08 - 00;20;16;06
Gail Martino
in that case, it was, you know, the business that they wanted to be in and didn't want to be in. And then they they changed. And then in other cases, it it might be, you know, and culture and, and so forth.

00;20;16;08 - 00;20;30;15
Craig Andrews
interesting. Well, as you know, as we kind of wrap this up, I think probably the most valuable thing, the biggest question people are asking is I there's a lot of hype out there. There's a lot of confusion.

00;20;30;15 - 00;20;37;28
Craig Andrews
when my joke says one is, I'm convinced one day I will walk into Starbucks and they're going to offer me an I brewed cup of coffee.

00;20;38;01 - 00;20;43;07
Craig Andrews
We don't need AI to brew our coffee. We've, you know, known for hundreds of years how to bring a cup of coffee.

00;20;43;09 - 00;20;44;08
Gail Martino
Right.

00;20;44;10 - 00;20;48;10
Craig Andrews
But people are doing the same thing. What was it? There was oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I remember,

00;20;48;10 - 00;21;03;29
Craig Andrews
when I first made that joke, literally a few days later, within like a week or two, I was buying a mouse a.

00;21;04;01 - 00;21;13;12
Craig Andrews
Okay. I just muted myself. That's I, I grabbed my mouse and obviously my new mouse has a feature I didn't realize it has, and that is to mute me when I don't want to be muted. But the,

00;21;13;12 - 00;21;17;10
Craig Andrews
I was shopping for a mouse and doggone if if,

00;21;17;10 - 00;21;22;02
Craig Andrews
Logitech didn't have an I mouse, I'm like, what the heck is my mouse?

00;21;22;04 - 00;21;46;00
Craig Andrews
And I looked at it and it was basically, it was some bogus thing that they decide to label on there. It has no more functionality than the mouse I have, but they were charging like 10 or $20 more for this I mouse. So we have a lot of hype and people are seeing this. And the question is for the average business, what should be their approach to AI?

00;21;46;00 - 00;21;56;04
Craig Andrews
This is the changing technology. What did people need to do to make sure they're staying up without doing a lot of investing in things that will never have a return.

00;21;56;06 - 00;22;00;29
Gail Martino
So it's it's a great question. I see us in the,

00;22;00;29 - 00;22;12;06
Gail Martino
in the phase of tool proliferation. Right? So there's ChatGPT out there. There's Claude, there's the AI mouse that you're talking about. You're going to see a lot more,

00;22;12;06 - 00;22;22;06
Gail Martino
of this. There's a lot of investment going going into these. There's a lot of tools that will eventually be some consolidation.

00;22;22;08 - 00;22;33;10
Gail Martino
So I think part of what, what a company needs to do now is to make sure that their, their teams are,

00;22;33;10 - 00;22;53;15
Gail Martino
you know, have some, some training and some awareness of AI to start thinking about are there ways that we could improve our workflow, for example, by automating some of it? And maybe AI is one way to go, or it might be machine learning is not the way to go anyway.

00;22;53;15 - 00;23;25;20
Gail Martino
There's different, different ways to get there, but how can they be more efficient? How might it affect certain roles? So I think that's part of of what they need to do. But for those folks who are already on the AI journey and at the at the other end and have been using it, I think some of the tools that you see now will not give you competitive advantage, because they're table stakes now,

00;23;25;20 - 00;23;29;13
Gail Martino
they're ChatGPT is available to everybody, right?

00;23;29;16 - 00;23;47;25
Gail Martino
So if you're using it, it's it's not an advantage. What will be an advantage in in the future is when you can combine your own proprietary data about, you know, your, your consumers, your products,

00;23;47;25 - 00;24;05;17
Gail Martino
and then add that to, you know, external data and then to put those together for competitive advantage. So I think right now it's about tool proliferation.

00;24;05;23 - 00;24;25;10
Gail Martino
It's about teaching, learning, starting to think about how to bring how to bring it in and what might work work best for the future. Think about where your sources of data are, how good your data your data are, and then how it could be used,

00;24;25;10 - 00;24;35;06
Gail Martino
for higher ROI in the future by identifying how bigger, better, you know, faster ways of, of,

00;24;35;06 - 00;24;42;17
Gail Martino
of creating value for you, either quickening your process, making sure that,

00;24;42;17 - 00;24;47;04
Gail Martino
some of the things that you do, you can you can automate, for example,

00;24;47;04 - 00;24;52;04
Gail Martino
so those are, those are some of the things that companies should be thinking about now.

00;24;52;07 - 00;24;59;18
Craig Andrews
And one of the things I think I'm hearing you say is don't treat AI, you know, like they used to have,

00;24;59;18 - 00;25;11;20
Craig Andrews
computer rooms. Yeah. And there was either a person that worked in a room with a computer or you would leave your desk to go into the room where the computer was to use it. I should be in your daily workflow.

00;25;11;26 - 00;25;18;12
Craig Andrews
I think you said that they were table stakes and correct. Yeah, yeah.

00;25;18;15 - 00;25;31;10
Gail Martino
So and that's why you need the teaching and training for those folks who may, you know, may not have tried out some of the tools that are ubiquitous now, like the chat, cheaper teas, the clouds and so forth.

00;25;31;10 - 00;25;34;15
Gail Martino
to try these out and,

00;25;34;15 - 00;25;41;06
Gail Martino
to start bringing them on board because that is going to be how everybody works pretty soon.

00;25;41;08 - 00;25;42;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;25;42;21 - 00;25;49;00
Gail Martino
And then it's going to be about, you know, how you can use it best to your advantage.

00;25;49;03 - 00;25;50;05
Craig Andrews
Yeah. No,

00;25;50;05 - 00;25;55;08
Craig Andrews
that's that's great. Well Gail, how did people reach you?

00;25;55;10 - 00;26;01;27
Gail Martino
reach out to me on on LinkedIn. Let's get connected. And,

00;26;01;27 - 00;26;12;17
Gail Martino
we can start from there. and Craig, you also have a website, and that should be up. in the beginning of September.

00;26;12;20 - 00;26;16;19
Craig Andrews
Excellent. Well, Gail, thanks for coming on. Leaders and legacies.

00;26;16;21 - 00;26;21;02
Gail Martino
thank you so much, Craig. Enjoyed it.

00;26;21;02 - 00;26;47;26
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Alize for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;26;47;26 - 00;26;49;21
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00;26;49;23 - 00;27;13;05
Craig Andrews
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00;27;13;07 - 00;27;21;12
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe your thumbs up! Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.

00;27;21;12 - 00;29;23;17
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Alize for me.com. or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.