Jon Browne is a specialist in Direct Primary Care (DPC). He discusses a revolutionary approach to health benefits for small and medium-sized businesses. Browne explains how business leaders can offer health care options without breaking the bank through DPC. He details how DPC allows physicians to step outside the insurance system, providing better care at lower costs. Browne emphasizes that business leaders can give employees access to affordable, high-quality health care while simultaneously reducing corporate expenses. This model empowers leaders to support their teams, boosting both morale and productivity, all while maintaining financial stability. The conversation dives deep into the difference between traditional insurance and the DPC model, with Browne showcasing how leadership and innovation in health care can change the game for business owners and their employees alike.

Want to learn more about Jon Browne's work? Check out their website at https://commoncare.org.

Connect with Jon Browne on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonbrowne/.

Key Points with Timestamps:

• [00:01:37] Introduction to Jon Browne and his focus on helping small businesses offer health care through Direct Primary Care.
• [00:02:13] Explanation of Direct Primary Care and why it matters to businesses.
• [00:04:46] DPC vs. traditional insurance: Lower costs, better care, and direct relationships between doctors and patients.
• [00:06:54] The reduced patient load in DPC allows for more personal care and faster service.
• [00:13:10] Addressing catastrophic medical expenses through supplemental insurance models like stop-loss or catastrophic insurance.
• [00:21:01] How businesses can offer health care options without direct costs and still benefit from tax advantages.
• [00:25:52] Empowering employees to make their own health care choices while businesses provide a sustainable framework.

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment of my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on the show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;01;12;18
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Jon Browne. He is a acquisition specialist with Common Care, and he's a part of our continuing series where we're bringing in people who are making a difference in health care. Here's the sad reality. Health care expenses are quickly becoming the number two line item in any company's

00;01;12;18 - 00;01;18;25
Craig Andrews
budget. And so it's growing. It's maybe growing faster than your revenue.

00;01;18;27 - 00;01;37;04
Craig Andrews
And so it's something that you have to think about. And when you factor in your margin goals it's really dangerous. We have to be able to get this under control. And I think there's a lot of things that are broken in our health care based on, you know, my own personal three month journey through the hospital. And so I'm excited to invite people like Jon one.

00;01;37;04 - 00;01;39;02
Craig Andrews
And Jon helps

00;01;39;02 - 00;01;50;00
Craig Andrews
small and medium sized businesses offer health benefits to their people for free by implementing direct primary care. And so listening,

00;01;50;00 - 00;01;53;19
Craig Andrews
this may be something that will help change your bottom line.

00;01;53;21 - 00;01;57;03
Jon Browne
Jon, welcome. Happy to be here.

00;01;57;05 - 00;01;59;19
Craig Andrews
So anyway, the,

00;01;59;19 - 00;02;00;29
Craig Andrews
until,

00;02;00;29 - 00;02;13;08
Craig Andrews
tell me a little bit about first, let's start with what's direct primary care. I think there's I think more and more people know what that is, but there's still people that are a little bit confused. What's direct primary care?

00;02;13;12 - 00;02;41;18
Jon Browne
Yeah. And before. Before I answer that on a on a on a make sure I speak to the people and tell them why they should listen. Why like before I tell you what prime direct primary care is, let me tell you why this is important. So if if you are tired of insurance premiums going up every single year for those with businesses that have over 50 employees, or if you are feeling the pressure to offer health benefits to your people.

00;02;41;20 - 00;02;53;26
Jon Browne
But if you were, you would no longer be profitable. I want to give you an option that exists that's going to help both sides.

00;02;53;26 - 00;03;06;13
Jon Browne
It's called direct primary care. So the way it's going to help both sides is for those that aren't offering anything, you can now offer something for free to your people. For those that are offering something.

00;03;06;15 - 00;03;10;06
Jon Browne
You can offer this for free again.

00;03;10;06 - 00;03;36;14
Jon Browne
And for every dollar spent by your people in direct primary care, you will see your claims and your renewal process, or your insurance problems that come in every single year. Your claims get thrashed. And so that insurance company no longer can come to you with leverage and saying like, hey, like, sorry, we're going to cut up premiums by another 40%.

00;03;36;16 - 00;03;41;28
Jon Browne
Okay, so if you want to make more money, this is, that's that's why that's why I teach it.

00;03;42;00 - 00;03;46;16
Craig Andrews
So what's but hang on. We some people confuse what's direct primary care.

00;03;46;17 - 00;04;11;02
Jon Browne
Okay. So the whole point of direct primary care is a physician unplugs for the insurance system, and now they get to determine what their prices are. Not the insurance companies. And so it's just between you and the doctor now, you're not walking with an insurance card that maybe an insurance company might pay for. It's just you and the doctor.

00;04;11;04 - 00;04;14;01
Jon Browne
So it's a subscription based health care model.

00;04;14;01 - 00;04;16;13
Jon Browne
And it's everything you'd hope for in a,

00;04;16;13 - 00;04;19;09
Jon Browne
family doctor.

00;04;19;11 - 00;04;22;24
Craig Andrews
To subscribe. And what's that subscription look like?

00;04;22;26 - 00;04;27;15
Jon Browne
It varies drastically. We've seen it anywhere between,

00;04;27;15 - 00;04;35;15
Jon Browne
$30 per person per month, all the way to 150. It just depends on what kind of services this doctor provides.

00;04;35;15 - 00;04;43;15
Jon Browne
And they are the front line of defense when it comes to any problems or issues physically. So you can see them as much as you want, whenever you want.

00;04;43;16 - 00;04;47;06
Jon Browne
Text, call, or your wait times don't exist.

00;04;47;06 - 00;04;50;16
Jon Browne
And so it's everything you would hope for in a,

00;04;50;16 - 00;04;58;04
Jon Browne
physician's model. And none of this stuff that you don't like, when you're current,

00;04;58;04 - 00;05;07;13
Jon Browne
in your current physician system. So you have no idea how much it's going to cost until six months later. Long wait times.

00;05;07;15 - 00;05;12;22
Jon Browne
Really, really busy doctors scheduling stuff out seven months in advance.

00;05;12;22 - 00;05;16;16
Jon Browne
All annoyances that you and I probably share.

00;05;16;18 - 00;05;18;16
Craig Andrews
You know, I remember.

00;05;18;16 - 00;05;34;13
Craig Andrews
August 10th, 2021 was the day I went into the hospital, and I woke up that morning and my wife measured my oxygen, and it was down in the 70s. And she's like, you're going to the doctor today? Well, I knew I'd woken up a couple hours before, and I knew that that's where we were headed.

00;05;34;16 - 00;05;36;03
Craig Andrews
And I,

00;05;36;03 - 00;06;01;28
Craig Andrews
I started calling, trying to make an appointment. I couldn't be seen by my doctor. This has been my doctor, you know, 17 years. I couldn't get an appointment with them. I needed to see him urgently. And so I went to see someone else. I had to wait late in the day. Had wait, like, 4 or 5 hours to see somebody who wasn't a very good doctor but was still in the same practice.

00;06;02;00 - 00;06;14;04
Craig Andrews
And so how does that work? This is the fear that a lot of people have. They have trouble booking appointments. Does direct primary care address us.

00;06;14;06 - 00;06;54;25
Jon Browne
100%? So a a normal insurance network based physician has a demand by the insurance company to have somewhere between 5 and 6000 patients at one time. So their expectation the insurance is expectation of, hey, we're going to take our network somewhere else unless you fill this quota of like how many patients you're going to see a direct primary care physician to maxes out tops at like 400, because they believe in having that kind of leniency in their schedule.

00;06;54;27 - 00;07;07;27
Jon Browne
Whenever emergencies happen for these 400 something people. So that that is a huge difference between load of, care management,

00;07;07;27 - 00;07;18;14
Jon Browne
between 5 and 6004 hundred. And so they can really, really focus on these 400 individuals anywhere from,

00;07;18;14 - 00;07;20;03
Jon Browne
senior living all the way to,

00;07;20;03 - 00;07;21;22
Jon Browne
pediatrics.

00;07;21;22 - 00;07;26;07
Jon Browne
And just be your frontline of defense for anything health related.

00;07;26;09 - 00;07;38;16
Craig Andrews
And so let's say I wake up, you know, let's have a repeat of August 10th, 2021. I wake up sick and I call and say, hey, I need to see you. How long we typically have to wait.

00;07;38;19 - 00;07;52;27
Jon Browne
The pens on the doctor. The ones we've worked with. So far are like, if, like, you wake up sick, you call them, they'll say, don't move. I'll be right there. I'm 15 minutes away. So you don't even move.

00;07;52;27 - 00;07;55;24
Jon Browne
They can make a house call. Drop the hat.

00;07;55;24 - 00;07;58;01
Jon Browne
Especially at the end of the night. Something like that.

00;07;58;04 - 00;08;04;16
Jon Browne
As because they love taking care of people, and they love seeing you and taking care of you.

00;08;04;16 - 00;08;12;25
Jon Browne
And so they've set up their practice to where the physician knows. Hey, you are the front line. And they love that.

00;08;12;25 - 00;08;29;10
Jon Browne
Because now, instead of doing tons of admin stuff throughout their throughout their lives in order to compensate for insurance negotiations, now it's just let me just take care of my people, and they take pride in that.

00;08;29;12 - 00;08;34;02
Jon Browne
So it can be as soon as them coming to you or,

00;08;34;02 - 00;08;42;06
Jon Browne
they can say, come on in, like, can you move? Yes. All right, come in. Let's see. Let's let's see. Now.

00;08;42;08 - 00;09;06;12
Craig Andrews
So one of the questions that comes to mind I was like, okay, that sounds great. But the you know, the benefit that I have with the doctor that I saw back in August 10th, 2021 was they were hooked into a hospital system. And so, you know, they had at least it my assumption was they had privileges and they were able to get me and they were there was some advantage to me,

00;09;06;12 - 00;09;08;26
Craig Andrews
being tied to a doctor that's in a hospital system.

00;09;08;26 - 00;09;11;12
Craig Andrews
Do I lose that with direct primary care? No.

00;09;11;12 - 00;09;13;09
Jon Browne
Not necessarily. So the,

00;09;13;09 - 00;09;40;19
Jon Browne
the. I'll put it this way. What happens when you come into a direct primary care model is the physician. Now, navigate to your care. That is not true for what's happening in the insurance space. So primary care and the insurance space is they are referral machines. They are just pointing you other directions all the time.

00;09;40;22 - 00;09;41;29
Jon Browne
And they just,

00;09;41;29 - 00;09;48;15
Jon Browne
refer to specialists, refer to surgeries, refer refer as much as they can. Direct primary care is the opposite way.

00;09;48;15 - 00;10;02;22
Jon Browne
We don't go to the hospital unless we absolutely have to. I can take care of a lot here in this facility. 8,090% of your problems that you could face in your life. We'll handle here.

00;10;02;24 - 00;10;08;25
Jon Browne
Anything else? I help you navigate your care. So I'm going to help you find,

00;10;08;25 - 00;10;33;19
Jon Browne
physicians services, hospitals or whatever that aren't aren't. Predetermined by an insurance network. It is what it. Who is the best physician or service for this problem we're trying to solve? So I, as your care navigator or the direct primary care, I should say, would be able to point you in the right direction.

00;10;33;21 - 00;10;44;06
Jon Browne
So what can happen there is like, okay, well, you can speak to hospitals that now offer cash only stuff as well.

00;10;44;06 - 00;10;46;27
Jon Browne
Great example is one in Oklahoma where,

00;10;46;27 - 00;11;07;29
Jon Browne
they an entire hospital, surgery centers, everything included, has completely rejected insurance. And even the idea. And they just list their, flat prices and they kind of change in difference in services and care is a surgery at a normal,

00;11;07;29 - 00;11;16;04
Jon Browne
insurance hospital could cost anywhere between 40 to 400 to $4 million, depending on what's going on.

00;11;16;05 - 00;11;18;06
Jon Browne
I don't even know what your kind of bills were.

00;11;18;06 - 00;11;21;15
Jon Browne
In in your three months.

00;11;21;15 - 00;11;32;18
Jon Browne
When it comes to just the surgery center saying it'll be about four grand max, it's several orders of magnitude cheaper.

00;11;32;18 - 00;11;39;23
Jon Browne
And so what's happened with direct primary care is that they are convincing other specialists to go,

00;11;39;23 - 00;11;45;28
Jon Browne
against insurance and just make your own prices for the services that you provide and be transparent about them.

00;11;46;01 - 00;11;53;04
Jon Browne
Instead of hitting patients with bills, several months later, after going through insurance,

00;11;53;04 - 00;11;58;06
Jon Browne
and the insurance company deciding what they're going to cover and what they're going to not or what they're not going to cover.

00;11;58;06 - 00;12;09;09
Jon Browne
They're just transparent of this knee surgery that you've got. It's going to cost you about $2,000. Does that seem worth it to you before it even happens?

00;12;09;11 - 00;12;10;26
Jon Browne
Instead of after.

00;12;10;28 - 00;12;29;01
Craig Andrews
Wow. So, okay. That makes. That's making sense. If they're doing cash only. I mean, it seems like I still need insurance, you know, certainly for catastrophic. I mean, if I,

00;12;29;01 - 00;12;35;04
Craig Andrews
if I hadn't had, you know. So, to answer your question, my total medical bills before all the funny business with,

00;12;35;04 - 00;12;43;24
Craig Andrews
you know, agreed rates and what have you, but my total medical bill for three months in the hospital was, $2 million, and it's wild.

00;12;43;27 - 00;13;08;21
Craig Andrews
And so I was so thankful I had health insurance because, you know, that protected me that that would've that would bankrupt this. And and it didn't. So how does that work in the direct primary care of if they do cash only, it seems like I'm having to buy insurance, which is expensive. And then I'm having to buy this.

00;13;08;23 - 00;13;10;02
Craig Andrews
How does that work out?

00;13;10;05 - 00;13;33;19
Jon Browne
Yeah, really good question. So first I want to I want to lay the basis of of what happened with you and the health insurance that happened most likely, like, I can't come in with authority because I'm. But I can tell you what most likely happened. Those that $2 million bill was not decided by the physicians offering their prices for what it costs them.

00;13;33;21 - 00;13;45;09
Jon Browne
That bill was negotiated behind closed doors with your health insurance and the network of providers. They decide between each other. You and I have no,

00;13;45;09 - 00;14;00;08
Jon Browne
power in those conversations as to how much that service would have costed otherwise. So they ask you to pay a premium to pay prices of services that they determined.

00;14;00;08 - 00;14;06;08
Jon Browne
But like, okay, well, Jon, the reason I buy insurance is for those catastrophic things.

00;14;06;12 - 00;14;17;21
Jon Browne
And I would say totally cool, buy insurance built for those things. And surprise, surprise, it's not health insurance.

00;14;17;21 - 00;14;25;08
Jon Browne
The ones though I would suggest people look into are something called stop loss or catastrophic insurance.

00;14;25;08 - 00;14;28;14
Jon Browne
Or even health sharing if you're if you're into that stuff.

00;14;28;14 - 00;14;36;16
Jon Browne
These are options of insurance for the what if scenarios, these freaky, scary scenarios,

00;14;36;16 - 00;14;47;03
Jon Browne
that will cover you, that are significantly cheaper than health insurance, and you buy them for those reasons so you don't have to buy health insurance.

00;14;47;03 - 00;14;52;15
Jon Browne
And I'm not anti insurance necessarily. I am anti what health insurance has done

00;14;52;15 - 00;15;09;13
Jon Browne
to the system as a whole of making prices go up every single year so that the insurance companies can make more every single year. I'm against that. I'm not against the idea of insurance. So it doesn't have to necessarily be health insurance.

00;15;09;13 - 00;15;17;09
Jon Browne
I would look into something else if you want to cover yourselves on top of that catastrophic stop loss, or at least to,

00;15;17;09 - 00;15;20;00
Jon Browne
that I would consider that are significantly cheaper.

00;15;20;02 - 00;15;21;28
Jon Browne
By the way.

00;15;22;01 - 00;15;41;08
Craig Andrews
Well, and there's there's something in that that I think a lot of people are either unaware or don't fully understand. The when the Affordable Care Act passed, there was a a cap on how much they could spend on administration. You know, I think it's like 80 or 85% has to go to,

00;15;41;08 - 00;15;43;14
Craig Andrews
to services.

00;15;43;17 - 00;15;43;27
Jon Browne
It.

00;15;43;29 - 00;16;07;18
Craig Andrews
Claims. And the remaining 15 to 20%, you know, can go to salaries and what have you. Right. And so the unintended consequence of that was, well, these executives went make more money. Right. And for them to hit that ratio, the only way for them to make more money is for the cost of claims to go up. So it's in their financial best interest for claims to get more expensive, not cheaper.

00;16;07;21 - 00;16;11;01
Craig Andrews
Correct. I don't think most people realize that.

00;16;11;02 - 00;16;15;00
Jon Browne
No. And maybe maybe we'll say and and and even,

00;16;15;00 - 00;16;46;14
Jon Browne
simpler terms. Insurance companies make money by health care prices going up. And the way they do that is they are legally required to pay for some of your services. And they have in their kind of shady contracts as to what they're going to cover and why the government, and legally have fixed their profit ratios, meaning if they bring in X amount of dollars, we'll do easy math.

00;16;46;20 - 00;17;07;22
Jon Browne
Like let's say it's $100 million. They are legally required to pay 80 million of that to claims. This is probably several zeros off, but I'm just giving it easy maps for for context. 80 million has to go to claims. Therefore you can now use the other 20 million for other reasons. It will

00;17;07;22 - 00;17;13;00
Jon Browne
try to make as much as possible of that as profit being a business.

00;17;13;03 - 00;17;47;21
Jon Browne
Now next year. Okay. What's the only way we can make more money? That is, if the total of, the total we could spend on claims goes up. Therefore, we can ask for more money, revenue so that we get more profit on the end. And so it's this cycle of of I need claims to go up so that I can make more money, claims to go up so that I can make more money, which sounds counterintuitive, but that is exactly the problem.

00;17;47;23 - 00;17;50;13
Jon Browne
It's harming us, the American people.

00;17;50;15 - 00;18;05;02
Craig Andrews
Well, so one thing that has confused me, and I'll just say it still confuses me is when I first heard about this model, it was over 20 years ago, but they called it concierge medicine.

00;18;05;02 - 00;18;09;21
Craig Andrews
And so I don't understand the difference between concierge medicine and direct primary care.

00;18;09;23 - 00;18;12;15
Jon Browne
Sure. Concierge is like. It's like,

00;18;12;15 - 00;18;18;29
Jon Browne
a la carte option, right? It's like I only pay for what? It for what I use,

00;18;18;29 - 00;18;26;27
Jon Browne
direct primary care is. And and you are kind of in the driver's seat more so than anywhere else.

00;18;26;27 - 00;18;34;26
Jon Browne
Direct primary care is where the physician decides what you need, and the physician can find solutions for you that,

00;18;34;26 - 00;18;38;26
Jon Browne
because they're at an A network, they can work directly with manufacturers.

00;18;39;00 - 00;18;40;12
Jon Browne
For example.

00;18;40;12 - 00;18;45;01
Jon Browne
I am, I broke my I broke my arm,

00;18;45;01 - 00;18;49;27
Jon Browne
a few weeks ago now, a few months ago. Sorry. I'm taking March now, and,

00;18;49;27 - 00;19;02;13
Jon Browne
really, really silly, really bad father moment. I put my kid on the handlebars and her foot got cut in the front tire, and we flipped over the handlebars. Kind of killer kind of smash your shoes only to,

00;19;02;13 - 00;19;26;12
Jon Browne
She's totally fine. That's totally fine. I just broke my arm. The problem was, like, I have no idea what I need to fix my arm. If I were to go to a concierge service and kind of choose my own adventure like I have, I don't know what I'm doing. When I go to direct primary care, the physician will say, you need this, this, this, and this.

00;19;26;15 - 00;19;30;20
Jon Browne
One of the medications that he got me would have cost if I had been in,

00;19;30;20 - 00;19;44;00
Jon Browne
insurance network $700 a month. He got. He handed it to me for 325 a bottle, $3, .3. 25A bottle. That's the kind of differences,

00;19;44;00 - 00;19;45;13
Jon Browne
that we're talking here.

00;19;45;16 - 00;19;47;17
Craig Andrews
Wow. So let's,

00;19;47;17 - 00;19;55;19
Craig Andrews
Now let's pull it together for businesses. So businesses that one provide insurance for,

00;19;55;19 - 00;20;02;22
Craig Andrews
one, provide health benefits for their employees. How does this tie in to what they're providing.

00;20;02;28 - 00;20;10;29
Jon Browne
Yeah okay. So here's here's the meat. Here's how here's how you here's how you do this.

00;20;10;29 - 00;20;18;12
Jon Browne
I'm going to first speak to people that aren't offering anything. Any businesses smaller than 50 employees where you're not legally required to offer anything.

00;20;18;12 - 00;20;32;09
Jon Browne
Here's how you do it. You create something called a group health plan, which is a formalized document between you, the business, the government and your people.

00;20;32;12 - 00;20;34;19
Jon Browne
And in that plan,

00;20;34;19 - 00;20;42;04
Jon Browne
say we're going to offer direct primary care to anyone in our business.

00;20;42;04 - 00;20;55;21
Jon Browne
That doesn't necessarily mean you have to pay for it. We're just going to offer it. We are now the vehicle for where people can buy direct primary care. You go to a direct primary care provider around you. Austin's a fantastic place.

00;20;55;21 - 00;20;58;27
Jon Browne
Rally is a fantastic place. Colorado huge.

00;20;58;27 - 00;21;01;07
Jon Browne
We are also working with some in Utah.

00;21;01;07 - 00;21;11;04
Jon Browne
You go to a direct primary care and you tell them, hey, I would like to offer your services to my people. What deal can you give us? Whatever it is. And now,

00;21;11;04 - 00;21;21;20
Jon Browne
whatever dollars your people spend through that new plan on direct primary care, you get tax benefits from to offer something for free.

00;21;21;22 - 00;21;26;08
Jon Browne
You get a deal from the direct primary care. They're stoked to have you.

00;21;26;08 - 00;21;33;17
Jon Browne
They really take care of your people. And every dollar spent through that plan, the business gets tax benefits, right? So you're making money.

00;21;33;19 - 00;21;36;23
Craig Andrews
Explain the free part. Explain the free part. I missed you there.

00;21;36;25 - 00;21;42;06
Jon Browne
Yeah. So the business puts $0 to this. And one of the common misconceptions,

00;21;42;06 - 00;21;59;14
Jon Browne
with businesses is they think, okay, I gotta I gotta offer health benefits. And you instantly go to a broker and they're going to tell you the kind of prices and they're going to tell you the business has to put this much right. Your people aren't going to aren't going to take it.

00;21;59;16 - 00;22;01;14
Jon Browne
The business,

00;22;01;14 - 00;22;22;26
Jon Browne
can offer this for free. No dollars goes to this. The people will then make the decision of what to do with their dollars, what to do with their compensation package. Would you like this? No. No problem. You just pocket the money. Would you like this? Yes. Okay. You employee are going to spend it. You're going to,

00;22;22;26 - 00;22;25;16
Jon Browne
they just to give you a, some numbers here.

00;22;25;18 - 00;22;44;12
Jon Browne
The average American spend $623 per month on health care. They are going to spend the dollars. It's just where and it can you do it. So in a tax advantaged way for both person, the individual and the business. And,

00;22;44;12 - 00;22;47;08
Jon Browne
that's what we'd suggest.

00;22;47;10 - 00;23;01;10
Craig Andrews
So if I were to set that up for my business, could I set up an HSA account, have that money going to. And let's take it a step further, where I decide to at least partially funded.

00;23;01;13 - 00;23;02;16
Jon Browne
Yeah.

00;23;02;19 - 00;23;16;09
Craig Andrews
Could I set up an HSA account where I say, hey, we're going to find your HSA card to the tune of $300 a month, and you can take that 300 and use it to purchase concierge,

00;23;16;09 - 00;23;17;19
Craig Andrews
rather direct primary care.

00;23;17;25 - 00;23;18;19
Jon Browne
Yep.

00;23;18;21 - 00;23;23;10
Craig Andrews
Can they use our HSA card to pay for their direct primary care?

00;23;23;12 - 00;23;39;18
Jon Browne
So they're yes, they can use their HSA, but I wanted to clarify to to legally have an HSA plan, you need a high deductible insurance plan so that you now qualify for the HSA. It's funky. It's funky legal stuff.

00;23;39;18 - 00;23;42;03
Jon Browne
Instead I would suggest,

00;23;42;03 - 00;23;47;07
Jon Browne
and this is like like this, this is what we help people do.

00;23;47;08 - 00;24;18;12
Jon Browne
Like, this is why common care exists is you track those dollars. And so what we've done is we set up, bank accounts that they put the dollars in there, from their from their paycheck, and they take a credit card with them labeled health plan to the direct primary care. And now you're tracking the dollars, because it gets really messy if they use their personal stuff, but they need to the business needs to see how many dollars happen through all that.

00;24;18;15 - 00;24;26;03
Jon Browne
But yes, you can use your health. You can use your HSA spending on that account on direct primary care.

00;24;26;03 - 00;24;38;24
Jon Browne
But slightly simpler is don't you don't have to offer insurance plans, high deductible insurance plans, and an HSA option so that they can take care of primary care.

00;24;38;24 - 00;24;43;03
Jon Browne
Instead, they can just spend money on direct primary care.

00;24;43;06 - 00;24;52;09
Craig Andrews
And how do you cover in this model? How do you cover the high deductible? Yeah, you had the high ticket items. The $2 million hospital bills.

00;24;52;12 - 00;24;53;10
Jon Browne
Great.

00;24;53;10 - 00;24;57;24
Jon Browne
What we would suggest is put in in addition to that option,

00;24;57;24 - 00;25;00;26
Jon Browne
direct primary care, put another option.

00;25;00;26 - 00;25;02;13
Jon Browne
Stop loss is the one we,

00;25;02;13 - 00;25;05;23
Jon Browne
suggest or catastrophic, as I said. And,

00;25;05;23 - 00;25;16;11
Jon Browne
as these, like, what we're really trying to tell businesses is get the wet, get out of the way of of health care and health coverage decisions for your people.

00;25;16;14 - 00;25;25;22
Jon Browne
Give them options. You don't have to pay for them necessarily. Give them options and that and let them decide what to do with their dollars.

00;25;25;22 - 00;25;33;08
Jon Browne
So for the $2 million, oh my goodness, this would have bankrupted US problems.

00;25;33;08 - 00;25;44;01
Jon Browne
We'd suggest give them another option and a group health plan as to you can contribute to catastrophic. Now if you'd like up to, most,

00;25;44;01 - 00;25;50;03
Jon Browne
most single no family people probably won't buy into that.

00;25;50;06 - 00;25;51;10
Jon Browne
They might.

00;25;51;10 - 00;26;01;08
Jon Browne
But why does the business why does the business make that decision for them as to what network they should, that should they be in, what providers are the best, etc.?

00;26;01;08 - 00;26;09;05
Jon Browne
We just suggest give them options, and what to do with those dollars and let them decide.

00;26;09;08 - 00;26;35;12
Craig Andrews
Well, well, this is fascinating, Jon. I appreciate this discussion because you've helped remove some confusion for myself. You've also helped me see that there's another option out there. And, you know, the reality is, I think most business owners want to provide some type of health care for their employees. Of course. Yeah. One, that's a it's a good thing for recruiting, but two, you just feel better.

00;26;35;12 - 00;26;45;02
Craig Andrews
You know, you feel better taking care of your people. And so I appreciate you sharing these options. If somebody wants to learn more how should they reach you?

00;26;45;04 - 00;26;48;07
Jon Browne
Very simply go to common care dawg.

00;26;48;07 - 00;26;51;11
Jon Browne
And it lays out a philosophy very easily. And,

00;26;51;11 - 00;26;58;21
Jon Browne
it gives you three steps and three kind of like three deep, interesting questions of what do you do,

00;26;58;21 - 00;27;11;10
Jon Browne
and what would be best for your business next, when it comes to this space and just to give you, just to give you those three very quickly, they are let your people decide number one.

00;27;11;12 - 00;27;24;19
Jon Browne
Number two, give them options that rock, not just ones that kind of rock or that I'm looking at you health insurance companies. And then the last one is,

00;27;24;19 - 00;27;34;27
Jon Browne
pretty novel. It is. How do you build how do you build an asset for the company in this space to where it now makes the business money? It doesn't cost the money.

00;27;34;29 - 00;27;37;05
Jon Browne
That's another discussion for another day.

00;27;37;05 - 00;27;52;18
Jon Browne
But that's the that's the that's the path. Give them options. No, let them decide. Give them great options now. Okay. Let's make let's bring this from one side of the ledger to the other.

00;27;52;21 - 00;27;55;28
Craig Andrews
Excellent. Well thanks Jon for sharing that on Layers and Legacies.

00;27;56;02 - 00;27;58;26
Jon Browne
You bet.

00;27;58;26 - 00;28;25;22
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Alize for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;28;25;22 - 00;28;27;17
Craig Andrews
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00;28;27;19 - 00;28;50;29
Craig Andrews
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00;28;51;01 - 00;28;59;06
Craig Andrews
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00;28;59;06 - 00;31;01;11
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Alize for me.com. or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.