Olga Pechnenko, a leader whose story is one of resilience, grit, and a relentless pursuit of excellence. Born in Kazakhstan, raised in Russia, and ultimately settling in the United States, Olga’s journey is marked by transformation. She talks candidly about the challenges of adapting to a new culture and language and the lessons she learned along the way. As a CEO and founder of Revenue Hire, Olga shares her approach to building teams, the importance of hiring the right salespeople, and her unique formula for success, which focuses on sales DNA, skills, and work ethic. Her insights are practical and hard-hitting, ideal for leaders looking to refine their approach to team-building and personal growth.

Want to learn more about Olga Pechnenko's work? Check out her website at https://www.revenuehire.com.

Connect with Olga on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/olgapechnenko/.

Key Points with Timestamps

• 0:51 – Introduction of Olga Pechnenko and her background in Kazakhstan and Russia.
• 2:23 – Discussion on the importance of Kaliningrad as a strategic port.
• 6:06 – Olga describes her challenging transition from Kazakhstan to Russia.
• 8:42 – Moving to America with $100 and her belief in the American Dream.
• 13:15 – Founding Revenue Hire and her approach to solving hiring pains in sales.
• 15:56 – Olga’s "Sales DNA, Skills, and Work Ethic" formula for identifying top sales talent.
• 24:06 – The critical role of a clear and aligned sales process in business success.
• 29:59 – Marketing and sales alignment: bridging common tensions.
• 34:42 – Final thoughts on leadership, legacy, and aligning compensation with company goals.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:30:16
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment of my career.

00:00:30:18 - 00:00:51:08
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on the show.

00:00:51:08 - 00:00:59:02
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Olga. Pechnenko. That's a mouthful. She grew up in Kazakhstan.

00:00:59:02 - 00:01:03:05
Craig Andrews
Well, she was born in Kazakhstan. Grew up in Russia. There's a story there.

00:01:03:05 - 00:01:17:06
Craig Andrews
And she always wanted to come to the US. She saw this land of limitless opportunities and she moved here when she was 19. And she. Although she's from Russia, she is an American patriot.

00:01:17:08 - 00:01:33:23
Craig Andrews
More than I can express if I pull the pin on that. It's just going to explode in the most amazing way. She loves America, but she wants to see Americans achieve their full potential. And that's really what drives her.

00:01:33:23 - 00:01:41:05
Craig Andrews
I've known Olga for a while, I think, before we even realized we knew each other. And so I'm really excited by this conversation.

00:01:41:05 - 00:01:42:13
Craig Andrews
Olga, welcome.

00:01:42:15 - 00:01:46:06
Olga Pechnenko
Me, too. It's so good to be here. Thank you for having me.

00:01:46:08 - 00:01:53:22
Craig Andrews
So I think, you know, I think we figured out that. So when you say you're from Russia. So let's boil down a couple of things.

00:01:53:22 - 00:01:57:05
Craig Andrews
You're from Kaliningrad. I say that correctly. Yes.

00:01:57:06 - 00:01:57:22
Olga Pechnenko
Kaliningrad,

00:01:58:08 - 00:02:03:20
Craig Andrews
Okay. That's a weird chunk of land that most Americans have no idea exists where it is.

00:02:03:22 - 00:02:08:10
Olga Pechnenko
So it's, if you look at European map, it's right next to Poland.

00:02:08:10 - 00:02:23:03
Olga Pechnenko
So it's between Poland and Lithuania. That little enclave or island that is not connected to Russia. You have to cross a couple of borders to get to Russia. So sort of like Alaska is not connected to America, but it's part of America. But you have to go through Canada to get there.

00:02:23:04 - 00:02:36:22
Olga Pechnenko
So that's kind of how Kaliningrad is. So it's a little it's not as big as Alaska at all. It's tiny. It's a million people there. It's it's teeny, but it's on the Baltic Sea. And it's a very important port for Russians that we got after the Second World War.

00:02:37:00 - 00:02:43:21
Craig Andrews
Okay. So let's talk about that. It's an important port. Why is that?

00:02:43:23 - 00:02:52:23
Olga Pechnenko
It doesn't freeze during the winter, so it never freezes. And that's very important for because all the ports up north, they freeze. And that's the only one that does not,

00:02:52:23 - 00:02:55:02
Olga Pechnenko
in that area. Russia.

00:02:55:04 - 00:03:08:00
Craig Andrews
You know, it's something we take for granted. You know, America has ports on both oceans and they don't freeze. And we don't even think about it. We just assume that this is normal. Why is a port important?

00:03:08:02 - 00:03:11:08
Olga Pechnenko
Oh, my gosh. For goods. For goods and trade. And,

00:03:11:08 - 00:03:24:17
Olga Pechnenko
and now with, you know, is going on in Russia, that's like a way for Russians to get stuff from Russia to Russia and back, because you can't really cross the borders that freely with all the shenanigans going on there right now. And so,

00:03:24:17 - 00:03:25:10
Olga Pechnenko
yeah. So it's,

00:03:25:10 - 00:03:33:07
Olga Pechnenko
it's a, it's a, it's important part of trade for Russia for, for moving goods and be part of the economy in the world.

00:03:33:09 - 00:03:54:21
Craig Andrews
And I think, you know, I think one thing that I wish Americans thought more about when we're setting foreign policy and we're not going to go down the whole place, you know. But one thing I wish Americans thought more about is we we need to think about, you know, if we want peace, we want people to have access to ports when we cut off ports.

00:03:54:23 - 00:04:05:08
Craig Andrews
That's destructive to peace. We we don't think about that because the amazing resources we have in this country and the abundance of ports that never freeze. But that's an important thing.

00:04:05:10 - 00:04:15:01
Olga Pechnenko
It is very important, especially in the winter or the times when when things get really good because things get really cold in Russia. So yeah.

00:04:15:03 - 00:04:15:16
Craig Andrews
So,

00:04:15:16 - 00:04:19:12
Craig Andrews
but now you grew up in. So you were born in Kazakhstan.

00:04:20:07 - 00:04:25:00
Craig Andrews
And again, just for those that are a little sketchy on their geography, where is Kazakhstan.

00:04:25:00 - 00:04:25:23
Olga Pechnenko
So Kazakhstan

00:04:25:23 - 00:04:31:05
Olga Pechnenko
used to be number two country size wise and, and USSR and former USSR and it's

00:04:31:05 - 00:04:43:16
Olga Pechnenko
it's right underneath Russia. So if you look at the map, it's the big chunk of land that is right under Russia. That's called Kazakhstan. Next, the Mongolian and, you know, other countries on on the other side. So

00:04:43:16 - 00:04:46:01
Olga Pechnenko
and Kazakhstan has it has a lot of,

00:04:46:01 - 00:04:52:02
Olga Pechnenko
you know, oil and gas or gas, I mean, one of those and that's why Russians were very interested in developing that country.

00:04:52:02 - 00:05:01:21
Olga Pechnenko
And that's where my family, my grandma, was moved there to help develop and kind of industrialize, industrialize that part of the the USSR,

00:05:01:21 - 00:05:05:10
Olga Pechnenko
back in the day. So that's how we ended up there when my family ended up there.

00:05:05:12 - 00:05:11:02
Craig Andrews
And, and a lot of Russian rockets and space rockets are shot out of Kazakhstan, right?

00:05:11:07 - 00:05:12:23
Olga Pechnenko
Yeah, I believe so. I, I'm,

00:05:12:23 - 00:05:24:15
Olga Pechnenko
I'm not as versed on Kazakhstan as I am on Russia, but I believe so because I left when I was about 11. So I don't remember much other than the other than there are national leaders changing. That's I don't even remember much about it.

00:05:24:15 - 00:05:26:19
Olga Pechnenko
And the winters, winters were cold.

00:05:26:21 - 00:05:43:11
Craig Andrews
So when that happened, that was like the first major disruption in your life. And again, I think this is going to be a little surprising for for an American listener. You were born in Kazakhstan, and then the politics changed. Yeah. And that impacted you. What happened?

00:05:43:13 - 00:05:54:17
Olga Pechnenko
Well, I'm a technically, even though I was born there, I'm a cynical Russian. And in that part of the world, your nationality is defined by your your parents, your dad, mostly. And so,

00:05:54:17 - 00:05:58:20
Olga Pechnenko
and so when you are ethnic something, the groups there are not as,

00:05:58:20 - 00:06:01:11
Olga Pechnenko
after your sub broke up, there was a lot of conflict.

00:06:01:13 - 00:06:06:17
Olga Pechnenko
And so my dad decided with three daughters it was safer for us to leave.

00:06:06:17 - 00:06:16:07
Olga Pechnenko
And, and start a life in Kaliningrad. And that's why we had to leave because of, you know, all the unpleasant things we had to deal with as ethnic Russians while we lived there, which

00:06:16:07 - 00:06:21:16
Olga Pechnenko
I don't want to go into the detail on that, but it was not it was not very pleasant.

00:06:21:18 - 00:06:22:09
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00:06:22:10 - 00:06:45:04
Olga Pechnenko
I remember that. I remember going to school and being threatened and, you know, kicked in and and it was not fun. Go back to your country. That's what they used to tell me. So yeah. So that's why we moved and we started with nothing. So we went we went from very cushy life. I remember my childhood was very happy and cushy and and just delightful.

00:06:45:04 - 00:06:54:20
Olga Pechnenko
We met in the moved to the house that had an outhouse. We didn't have running water. We didn't have, which is basically had electricity in the house. And,

00:06:54:20 - 00:07:03:11
Olga Pechnenko
not very safe to run electricity to warm you up during the Russian winter. And so with that, we had no gas, we had no running water, no bathroom. And,

00:07:03:11 - 00:07:11:15
Olga Pechnenko
you know, and one of those winters, I was outside in the middle of the winter and the other night, and I was just like, there's got to be a better life.

00:07:11:17 - 00:07:14:02
Olga Pechnenko
And I think that's when my journey started.

00:07:14:04 - 00:07:14:22
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00:07:14:23 - 00:07:19:01
Olga Pechnenko
I wanted a better life than that.

00:07:19:03 - 00:07:36:14
Craig Andrews
Well, we're happy to have you here in America, because I just. When I talk to you every time I talk to you, I walk away so energized because I hear, I hear hope, I hear, you know, just optimism and and belief in the greatness of America and everything that you say.

00:07:36:15 - 00:07:43:05
Olga Pechnenko
I mean, that's why I came here and. And I came here with nothing. I came here with $100 when I was 19 years old. And,

00:07:43:05 - 00:07:44:13
Olga Pechnenko
I just believed that

00:07:44:13 - 00:07:56:08
Olga Pechnenko
I could do anything here. You know, that's just how strong American image was. Because America is the land of opportunities. And it it worked out for me, you know, and I wanted my kids, my kids.

00:07:56:10 - 00:08:17:04
Olga Pechnenko
And that was 19. Like, who thinks about kids when they're 19? But I knew I wanted my kids to have this opportunities and to to live here. And that's why I took the risk and my whole family's in Russia, and I came here, and here I am, a huge, huge believer in American dream. That's really what drives me every day.

00:08:17:06 - 00:08:19:00
Craig Andrews
Well, one of the things when we

00:08:19:00 - 00:08:29:22
Craig Andrews
when we started talking, we, you know, we connected here in the last several months. And when we were talking, I started thinking I was like, wait a minute, there's not that many Russians in Austin.

00:08:30:04 - 00:08:30:21
Olga Pechnenko
No.

00:08:30:23 - 00:08:34:17
Craig Andrews
Astros. So do you know a guy named Pyotr Belov? And,

00:08:34:17 - 00:08:52:04
Craig Andrews
you're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And we started talking about the Wizard Academy, which is a place that them at Pyotr. And then all of a sudden I, I remember meeting one of his friends, you know, a couple of years ago who was from Kaliningrad. I'm like, okay, there aren't that many Russians in Austin.

00:08:52:04 - 00:08:56:15
Craig Andrews
Probably not that many from Kaliningrad. I think we met years earlier.

00:08:56:15 - 00:09:01:13
Olga Pechnenko
Yeah, yeah, I guess probably the small world, you know.

00:09:01:15 - 00:09:05:12
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So. Well, very cool. And so,

00:09:05:12 - 00:09:11:05
Craig Andrews
what young in coming to America, what would you say has been your biggest,

00:09:11:05 - 00:09:14:21
Craig Andrews
surprise?

00:09:14:23 - 00:09:27:20
Olga Pechnenko
That it's true. It's true, it's true that as long as you're willing to put work and focus and energy into something, everything is possible. I, as a woman, as a young woman,

00:09:27:20 - 00:09:38:12
Olga Pechnenko
who came here, I knew just one family here when I first came here. And from there. Truly, if you're open, if you're curious, it's everything they say if you're just willing to work for it.

00:09:38:12 - 00:09:55:18
Olga Pechnenko
And. And I'm not saying that the hard work or whatever. I'm just saying truly put yourself out there and be curious and put the effort into it, put the energy into it, and really care about helping others like this country will give you everything. I mean, I've got introductions. I've got, you know,

00:09:55:18 - 00:09:59:16
Olga Pechnenko
I was able to live in and the place for free for a couple months when I first came here.

00:09:59:16 - 00:10:15:09
Olga Pechnenko
Like people would just do things for you if they're just see that you're onto something, you know, like they want to help you. And now I understand. I'm like, oh, wow, that makes sense because it's it's it's refreshing to see that it's awesome. And so that was probably the most surprising thing,

00:10:15:09 - 00:10:23:19
Olga Pechnenko
for me. But like, the obvious things, you know, I expected more cowboys and more cacti and things like that in Texas, then I didn't really see that much.

00:10:23:19 - 00:10:31:13
Olga Pechnenko
But like, you know, in general, it's just surprising to me that everything I grew up to believe in was true when I came here.

00:10:31:15 - 00:10:44:19
Craig Andrews
Oh, that's so awesome. So how did you master English? Because what I've observed is if somebody moves to the US before they're ten, they they have a very natural American accent.

00:10:44:19 - 00:10:56:20
Craig Andrews
And you have an accent, but it's not much of an accent. And, and obviously there's, there's something you've done that's enabled you to just be very masterful in English and not only accurate, but,

00:10:56:20 - 00:10:58:20
Craig Andrews
with a very clear, understandable accent.

00:10:58:20 - 00:11:01:11
Craig Andrews
What's how did you do that?

00:11:01:13 - 00:11:18:23
Olga Pechnenko
Well, that's that's a good question. My mom put me in the experimental class when I was six, in Russia, in Kazakhstan, and we had to learn German, and then in fifth grade they added English. And when I moved to Russia, they only had one language. So I had to pick. And I remember thinking, you know, I was a German.

00:11:18:23 - 00:11:28:19
Olga Pechnenko
I took it for a longer than English. And I was like, you should probably go with German. But then something inside of me said, But English is so much prettier. No, no offense to German language at all.

00:11:28:19 - 00:11:35:16
Olga Pechnenko
And and to me, English is is more logical. I'm very math driven. And to me there's more logic in English.

00:11:35:18 - 00:11:47:11
Olga Pechnenko
And so I was always an A-plus student on on the language side. And then because of that, I won this competition at 15 that U.S government, I believe Clinton, who made this program,

00:11:47:11 - 00:12:01:18
Olga Pechnenko
he very smart, very smart guy because he basically made this program where he would take for a year exchange students from Russia and former USSR countries and, and he will bring them to America for free for a year to live as an exchange student.

00:12:01:18 - 00:12:33:08
Olga Pechnenko
And then you go back and tell everybody how awesome America is. And so I came here for a year when I was 15 to North Carolina. I lived with the host family, and I remember I told myself, don't speak to any Russians while you're here for a year. So I could learn the actually conversational English, not just the textbook that I knew, but actually speak like American speak versus me being safe with the Russians that I could find and, you know, feel safer with or speak Russian more so I didn't speak Russian at all that year.

00:12:33:09 - 00:12:35:18
Craig Andrews
So where in North Carolina were you?

00:12:35:18 - 00:12:50:04
Olga Pechnenko
Durham. Durham, North Carolina. And and I still my host family, still in my life there. They're just incredible, incredible people. And I'm very thankful they took me in because that's where I saw the opportunity, truly, of what's possible for a woman here.

00:12:50:06 - 00:12:56:12
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah. It's I used to live in Raleigh, and I would go to Durham Bulls games, and.

00:12:56:13 - 00:13:05:19
Olga Pechnenko
There you go, I remember that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's it's I it's so beautiful over there I, I it's it's gorgeous.

00:13:05:20 - 00:13:15:08
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So so now you run a company called Revenue Hire and, what does that what do you guys do.

00:13:15:10 - 00:13:17:10
Olga Pechnenko
So the revenue hire is really,

00:13:17:10 - 00:13:42:20
Olga Pechnenko
was was I founded the revenue hire because of my, my own pain in the past. And my big pain in the past was I used to run a translation company where it was a multimillion dollar business that I actually started as an intern. And then I became the CEO at 24. And so I was super young running the company and I read all the HR books on how to hire people, and that worked on every position except for sales.

00:13:42:20 - 00:13:50:06
Olga Pechnenko
I made three, I missed hired three sales teams, and it wasn't until I learned how to hire, right? I

00:13:50:06 - 00:14:08:10
Olga Pechnenko
I worked with Sandler Consultants that that taught me how to how to how to do sales. Right, how to kind of hire. Right, and all that stuff that it started clicking for me, but that was up to two years of mistakes of mis hiring sales teams, and that cost the company a lot of opportunities, money, resources.

00:14:08:13 - 00:14:31:20
Olga Pechnenko
And I was like, why is this so hard? Why is this? It should not be this hard, and this is my this is my talent. Any time I realized something is too hard, I know there's got to be a solution for that. And I went and found it, figured this out. And when the company got sold, I started revenue hired to help other growing companies to not have this pain of mis hiring salespeople because everybody's great on paper.

00:14:32:00 - 00:14:50:01
Olga Pechnenko
I remember the stack of resumes would go this high and I'm like, what the heck is good? And who's not? How do I know? And I figured it out. And so that's why I wanted to start doing this for others and actually doing the service for them so they don't have to make this painful mistakes that could cost millions of dollars in revenue every year.

00:14:50:03 - 00:14:56:04
Craig Andrews
So what's the formula? I mean, what what did you learn in that process? What were you doing right? And what were you doing wrong?

00:14:56:05 - 00:15:14:06
Olga Pechnenko
You basically had to do everything the opposite. What do you typically do with regular positions? So usually in the typical hiring process, people you have a way to see if they're telling you the truth. You have the credentials, you have the certificates. You've got education you've got. You can give them a project like a test project of some sort.

00:15:14:09 - 00:15:39:11
Olga Pechnenko
You can tell it it's pretty easy on sales. You can put anything on your resume. And it doesn't mean that's true. There's no sales degrees, there's nothing like that. And so what I found was you have to interview salespeople, like you would do a sales process, and they got to sell to you without knowing they're selling. And so all we do is we look at three my scientific processes.

00:15:39:11 - 00:15:57:23
Olga Pechnenko
We look at three different things. Their sales DNA, which is like how are they wired to be in sales. Then their sales skills, which have to match the job description. And then do they have the work ethic to produce results? A lot of people will do CRM updating in the middle of the day. That's not really producing results.

00:15:57:23 - 00:16:13:12
Olga Pechnenko
Right. And so like the work ethic has to be like, you got to be smart and you got to work, you know, with a lot of focus on what you need to accomplish versus just doing the best work. And so most companies interview for sales skills. We, you know, for the whole three, the sales dinner is the hardest.

00:16:13:12 - 00:16:15:09
Olga Pechnenko
That's the thick skin. How

00:16:15:09 - 00:16:34:12
Olga Pechnenko
well, we handle rejection. How well do you build rapport? That's important. I mean, speaking of your book, right. It's kind of like, how are you showing up on the date? Are you showing up being rude and like. Like somebody owes you everything? Or are you showing up to being curious and open to hear what the other person has to say and and a good salesperson?

00:16:34:12 - 00:16:55:14
Olga Pechnenko
They adjust to the personality, like like masters. And that's what we're looking for. And and our job is to vet them before we get to in front of the clients. The client doesn't make the mistake of hiring somebody who should never be in sales. So hopefully it wasn't too confusing. But that's sort of in the way kind of our formula, how it works.

00:16:55:15 - 00:17:12:20
Craig Andrews
You know, I've got a buddy who's Mormon, and he was telling me once why Mormons were so good in business and especially sales, you know, so Mormons, when they turn 18, they, they do a two year mission and they go door to door every day facing rejection for every day.

00:17:12:23 - 00:17:17:03
Olga Pechnenko
You have to I mean, you have to be able to handle that, you know.

00:17:17:05 - 00:17:17:18
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00:17:17:19 - 00:17:29:18
Olga Pechnenko
And the question I always ask my clients we work with is like, how do you how do you test the rejection? Like how how well will they handle rejection? Because if your prospect rejects them,

00:17:29:18 - 00:17:35:13
Olga Pechnenko
is the prospect going to get angry emails from your client, from your salesperson? They're going to get, you know,

00:17:35:13 - 00:17:36:15
Olga Pechnenko
manipulative emails.

00:17:36:15 - 00:17:54:09
Olga Pechnenko
Like what? How are they going to handle it? Well, guess what? In the interview process that we do like, they show us the true colors. They show us everything. I've got hate mail, I've got name calling, I've got everything. And those are the people that are in sales. Like they should be the the, you know, the image of your company.

00:17:54:09 - 00:18:01:01
Olga Pechnenko
And and it's important it's important to know what what do you need to stay away from because people will show you everything.

00:18:01:03 - 00:18:02:17
Craig Andrews
So do you have a one of these,

00:18:02:17 - 00:18:06:22
Craig Andrews
hate emails that you got the do you have one that you've framed, that you're kind of I.

00:18:06:22 - 00:18:09:13
Olga Pechnenko
Should, I should, I should,

00:18:09:13 - 00:18:23:13
Olga Pechnenko
I try to move on my my thick skin is so thick that I just laugh at it and say, oh, thank you for showing me your true colors and we just move on. But to me, it's it just means we're doing the good work for our clients.

00:18:23:15 - 00:18:24:23
Craig Andrews
Well, you've read my book,

00:18:24:23 - 00:18:31:00
Craig Andrews
you know, Make Love Magical that talks about how we use first time offers as funny. I had,

00:18:31:00 - 00:18:39:11
Craig Andrews
have one guy I was talking to as a financial advisor up in the DC area, and he was interested in some help with marketing. And we're sitting there talking. We have one,

00:18:39:11 - 00:18:39:17
Craig Andrews
call.

00:18:39:17 - 00:18:57:09
Craig Andrews
And I was like, okay, well, the next step is we have this little mini project. And he looks at me and he says, what? I have to pay money to spend more time with you. Don't you know my time is valuable? And, and I was sitting there, I was smiling, you know, I didn't get upset with him.

00:18:57:09 - 00:19:03:22
Craig Andrews
I was like, thank you so much for letting me know how you value my time.

00:19:04:00 - 00:19:08:13
Olga Pechnenko
See, they show you I love you. Listen, your book and I'm going to,

00:19:08:13 - 00:19:21:04
Olga Pechnenko
I'd love to have you on my podcast because I want to talk to you about it so much. But the fact that you have the criteria of who is not a good client for you, like they show you the same thing with salespeople. They will show you they're not a good fit.

00:19:21:04 - 00:19:40:10
Olga Pechnenko
If you're hiring a hunter. And this person can not even build the rapport with you and they're just showing up with the why are you in sales, I don't care, you hit 150% of your quota. Don't care. Have a conversation where where I feel like there's energy flowing. And if it's not, why are you in sales? I mean, things like that.

00:19:40:10 - 00:19:47:12
Olga Pechnenko
That just like or rejection, like, we put a little pressure on them and some of them hang up.

00:19:47:14 - 00:19:48:16
Craig Andrews
Wow.

00:19:48:18 - 00:19:59:17
Olga Pechnenko
What? You know, like that to me, I'm like to think about that person. Go on in selling for you, if they hang up on the interview, you know, that's just,

00:19:59:17 - 00:20:01:07
Olga Pechnenko
I'll just leave it right there.

00:20:01:09 - 00:20:09:10
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So when you're measuring the sales DNA, is that just an interview you do or do they do an assessment or is there's.

00:20:09:12 - 00:20:13:16
Olga Pechnenko
We it's part of our it's it starts with the moment they apply. And so we sort of

00:20:13:16 - 00:20:26:19
Olga Pechnenko
it the second they show up we have like five different paths that could go on. And so after doing this for many, many years, we already know if they start talking about that, they've got that weakness. If they start talking about that, they've got that weakness.

00:20:27:00 - 00:20:30:06
Olga Pechnenko
And so sales DNA, it comes down to really, you know,

00:20:30:06 - 00:20:34:17
Olga Pechnenko
do they want to be liked? If they want to be liked, then they show up as like,

00:20:34:17 - 00:20:37:09
Olga Pechnenko
you know, like they show up differently than if they've got,

00:20:37:09 - 00:20:37:21
Olga Pechnenko
kind of,

00:20:37:21 - 00:20:54:09
Olga Pechnenko
if they don't know how to handle their emotions or they're out of whack because that comes up as passionate, but it also will come up as as soon as you cross some kind of line, they will get defensive or shut down or hang up or send you hate mail or, you know, whatever.

00:20:54:09 - 00:20:57:02
Olga Pechnenko
And so we kind of know the DNA is,

00:20:57:02 - 00:20:59:14
Olga Pechnenko
I actually really love Dave Carlin's work,

00:20:59:14 - 00:21:03:12
Olga Pechnenko
on that. He is very scientific when it comes to sales. And so,

00:21:03:12 - 00:21:16:07
Olga Pechnenko
I learned a lot about, like, what that should look like. And then it comes down to the mindset. Right. And so it's kind of like, again, 11 years of doing this, it's been there's a lot of things that we learned and implement.

00:21:16:09 - 00:21:21:21
Craig Andrews
So one of the things so that's that's the sales DNA and then the sales skills.

00:21:21:21 - 00:21:28:20
Olga Pechnenko
So that's what. Yeah. Because let's say you're hiring the first sales hire, which is something that we do very often.

00:21:28:20 - 00:21:42:08
Olga Pechnenko
It's when the founder is sick and tired of doing themselves, and they want to hire the first sales person. And so they need to make sure the skill set for that person matches what they're what they actually need, like what they need and what they want.

00:21:42:08 - 00:22:03:06
Olga Pechnenko
Sometimes very different things. And so it's our job to make sure the sales skills align, because even if they have a great DNA, but they've never done the job before, you're hiring somebody to be a failure because they're not going to do a good job. So you have to know what the sales skills should be, and then make sure you precisely matching that.

00:22:03:08 - 00:22:25:12
Olga Pechnenko
So, for example, you know, if they've never been the first salesperson in the company and they've only been part of the big team, they're going to fail because they're used to having everything figured out for them. And a lot of times the founder will hire somebody, somebody friend who's been successful, a Dell or successful, like they're so successful at that.

00:22:25:14 - 00:22:39:04
Olga Pechnenko
But then they come in and they're like, well, what is that? What is this and what is that and what is that? Well, you got to figure that out. The playbook. Oh well I don't know how to do that or whatever. And so and then just becomes a miss hire after, you know, the honeymoon of three months or whatever.

00:22:39:06 - 00:22:41:23
Olga Pechnenko
And so that's that's important.

00:22:42:00 - 00:22:55:18
Craig Andrews
And then the work ethic, there was something you said that really surprised me was you saw it as a negative that they are updating the CRM. So I'm a marketer. I'm like, oh no, don't stop them. Please have them update the CRM.

00:22:55:20 - 00:23:04:23
Olga Pechnenko
We want them to update this area. I just don't want them to update the CRM during the hours. They should be building relationships with clients. And so so just to me it's it's

00:23:04:23 - 00:23:15:13
Olga Pechnenko
are you really working relationships? You know, I have did my CRM after I know my business hours are over because that's when it's it's like, this is the non-revenue generating activity right now.

00:23:15:13 - 00:23:43:10
Olga Pechnenko
So I got to do it, but I'm not going to do it when I could be selling or building relationships or reaching out to somebody or like doing things. And so it's kind of like measuring you know, taking long lunches or showing up to work late or just like making doctor appointments in the middle of your day or things like that, that you just know, like you got to be smart about how you how you budget your time for for the for the for the results that you promise they're going to produce.

00:23:43:12 - 00:24:06:11
Craig Andrews
So one of the things that I've seen is a lot of salespeople just ignore the CRM and and the data is just corrupt. It's it makes my job as a marketer hard because I can't I'm trying to measure trends. I'm trying to figure out what activities we're doing are driving sales meetings and driving sales. And when the CRM as an up to date, all my data is corrupt.

00:24:06:11 - 00:24:31:08
Olga Pechnenko
Well, did you notice? I didn't say don't update it, I just I don't updated in the time you should be producing. And that is important. And a lot of people, they think the busy work is the most important work. And to me it's like it just tells me if you're spending four hours every day from 8 to 12 doing, you know, busy work without calling, building relationships, you know, actually working the deals,

00:24:31:08 - 00:24:33:09
Olga Pechnenko
how successful are you going to really be?

00:24:33:11 - 00:24:37:22
Craig Andrews
Yeah. No. And that and that makes complete sense. I've just found that.

00:24:37:22 - 00:24:50:11
Olga Pechnenko
But this is one part of it. There's other obviously there's so many other things to it, but I'm just giving you an example of like what the work ethic actually is. You know, like if they hit their quota on the first week, are they going to stop?

00:24:50:12 - 00:24:50:22
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00:24:51:01 - 00:25:09:11
Olga Pechnenko
Yeah. That's that's people. Well you will listen to the conversations and be like, well I met the quota. And it's like, really? You don't want to keep going. Like that's what you know, like things like that. So people will tell you so many things because they have no idea what the questions you're asking. They're expecting, you know, tell me by yourself.

00:25:09:11 - 00:25:20:03
Olga Pechnenko
They're not like they're not expecting the questions we're asking. And so we catch them in the true raw state of like the answer just coming out and showing you the world.

00:25:20:05 - 00:25:35:11
Craig Andrews
So here's something maybe you can explain to me because I found their lives, sales guys don't like to update the CRM. And I get your point about, you know what, I'm doing it for the revenue hours. But I've run into some that it doesn't matter what time of day they're not updating the CRM.

00:25:35:11 - 00:25:37:14
Olga Pechnenko
That's not a good salesperson.

00:25:37:16 - 00:25:38:16
Craig Andrews
So. Oh.

00:25:38:18 - 00:25:56:17
Olga Pechnenko
Because you know what? The good salespeople, you know what they love more than anything? Numbers they love seeing. Like I you I cannot go fast enough once my day is over to go update my thing in terms of like my pipeline and this and that. Like salespeople, they talk about numbers, they talk about stores with numbers. There's no vagueness.

00:25:56:17 - 00:26:12:14
Olga Pechnenko
There's no there's no numbers, numbers, numbers. They love to. And it's the bragging. That's just how they tell the story. And in fact, that's a very telling sign when somebody doesn't want to tell you about the numbers or what the pipeline is or what the close ratio is, and how are they going to know of that of the not tracking that on CRM.

00:26:12:17 - 00:26:32:03
Olga Pechnenko
So like they've got to do that. And that's one of the questions, you know, that we ask like, tell me about this. What are you doing. What's your habits and this and this and this and this and and again you you know, some companies may have a different, you know, expectations. I've just noticed that those who prioritize revenue generating but then they still do the, the housekeeping.

00:26:32:05 - 00:26:43:11
Olga Pechnenko
Those are the successful ones. But the ones who don't keep track of anything, they're not competitors. They're not they're not going to be competitive in sales, which is one of the biggest traits, especially in hunters.

00:26:43:13 - 00:26:47:21
Craig Andrews
Wow. So here's something else.

00:26:47:21 - 00:27:03:08
Craig Andrews
I'm interested in your take on this. Obviously, I'm a marketer and sales and marketing are like cats and dogs. We just, you know, we're upset with them. They're upset with us. From your perspective, what's the source of that tension and how do we work through it?

00:27:03:10 - 00:27:21:06
Olga Pechnenko
I think from what I've seen against great question, but I feel like marketers, a lot of times when people hire salespeople, they expect them to be marketers. And a lot of times people hire marketing people. They expect them to be salespeople. And there's just like it's two different functions. You know, marketing has to drive leads. And then,

00:27:21:06 - 00:27:23:19
Olga Pechnenko
salespeople obviously have to qualify and close the leads.

00:27:23:19 - 00:27:38:21
Olga Pechnenko
You know, that's in the perfect world. And I feel like the tension that I've seen between the two, it's like when, when, when the KPIs are not clearly defined and when the sales person doesn't have a process, that's the most. So we have,

00:27:38:21 - 00:27:44:08
Olga Pechnenko
we have some clients right now. They're paying a ton of money to get leads and they're not being converted.

00:27:44:09 - 00:28:01:16
Olga Pechnenko
Well, there's going to be tension. Marketing is going to be hating that. Right. And in fact, they do. That's why they're hiring us. Because they're like, what? What's the problem? Well, the problem is the sales person cannot qualify the leads and they're messing them up and then they can't close. And then who the fingers pointing to. Oh, marketing gets me bad leads.

00:28:01:16 - 00:28:18:07
Olga Pechnenko
Right? And so it just becomes a circle, a vicious circle of if the salesperson, which most salespeople are not great, I have to tell you, 8020 rule works everywhere, right? And so, I mean, majority of them should never be in sales. And then if you get the bad apple trying to convert your salespeople,

00:28:18:07 - 00:28:27:22
Olga Pchnenko
convert your sales leads and they can't, then all the efforts you're spending on marketing is just, oh, it's it makes me so enraged when I see that problem.

00:28:27:23 - 00:28:33:23
Olga Pechnenko
You know, it comes down to sell skills to kind of like, how well do you know how to do your job.

00:28:34:01 - 00:28:45:07
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And, you know, it's it's funny, at some point in the relationship with the client, we always have client come back and say the leads are no good. Yeah. And, and,

00:28:45:07 - 00:29:00:00
Craig Andrews
I had client tell me that, you know, a couple of years ago, I said, you know, so far, 100% of clients get to this point. Let's look at the leads and you look at the leads and you're like, why did this person never get a call or an email?

00:29:00:02 - 00:29:00:12
Craig Andrews
Oh.

00:29:00:12 - 00:29:11:04
Olga Pechnenko
Come down a little guy. Exactly. Because they're don't have the work ethic required or they don't have the thick skin, or they don't have the cell skills required to to do the job.

00:29:11:04 - 00:29:24:04
Olga Pechnenko
I, I see this so, so often, like 99% of the time, companies just have either a weak sales process or they have a sales process that no one follows and it becomes this chaos.

00:29:24:06 - 00:29:41:18
Olga Pechnenko
Well, if you don't like I mean, if you change a tire, there's a process in the tire shop. It's going to be the same thing, hopefully over and over and over. I know you have a process of doing your first time offer. You talk about the process and you, but you have a process. Most people talk about it, but they don't follow the process.

00:29:41:18 - 00:29:44:14
Olga Pechnenko
And how can you improve anything if you don't have it? You know.

00:29:44:16 - 00:29:53:00
Craig Andrews
Have a process, have a playbook. Thank you. Yeah. And it's and the playbooks very specific. It's like

00:29:53:00 - 00:29:58:10
Craig Andrews
and you know, and we share the playbook with clients and sometimes I'm, I wonder I'm like,

00:29:58:10 - 00:30:05:09
Craig Andrews
if you were closing deals, I don't understand why you didn't win. Try our playbook, but you're not closing deals. Why don't you try this playbook?

00:30:05:09 - 00:30:06:22
Craig Andrews
It's proven.

00:30:07:00 - 00:30:21:18
Olga Pechnenko
Yep, yep. I mean, it's it's to me. And people come to us like, we've tried this, I've tried that. And I'm like, but tell me about your process. Like, what do you actually do to hire these people? Well, you know, I'm great at this. I'm like, well, if you were great at this, like, you wouldn't be having a problem.

00:30:21:23 - 00:30:37:02
Olga Pechnenko
So like, walk me through that. And then they start working me through it and it's like they have no process. It's just they're hoping. Right. And then if that's the process for hiring, they're going to hire somebody who's going to be hoping to close deals down the road. And then the question is, why are you even wasting money on marketing?

00:30:37:04 - 00:30:53:06
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and that's the hard thing for me is because we work hard at what we do and as you know, of course we get paid for it. But I'd like to see, like, more than pay. I'd like to see the results. I'd like to see businesses changed because of our work.

00:30:53:08 - 00:30:54:00
Olga Pechnenko
Right.

00:30:54:01 - 00:30:55:00
Craig Andrews
And we had,

00:30:55:00 - 00:30:59:01
Craig Andrews
we had the claim was one of the ones that said, you know, the leads are no good.

00:30:59:01 - 00:31:14:21
Craig Andrews
When we brought them on, they had a 30 to 33% closing rate, you know, which seemed respectable. And I remember as time started progressing and we're ramping up our marketing program,

00:31:14:21 - 00:31:19:06
Craig Andrews
I remember talking to the GM, I said, I think your closing rate's dropping.

00:31:19:08 - 00:31:41:01
Craig Andrews
And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, we have the best sales guys in the business. And, and then I got a little bit more data. And the sales, the closing rate had dropped down to the low to mid 20s. And then some more time passed. And I said I think the closing rates and we actually eventually made a dashboard that, you know, because they had the long sales cycle and well,

00:31:41:01 - 00:31:42:02
Craig Andrews
what happened?

00:31:42:02 - 00:31:44:00
Olga Pechnenko
Like, do you know what happened?

00:31:44:02 - 00:31:45:03
Craig Andrews
I know this,

00:31:45:03 - 00:32:02:09
Craig Andrews
they went from a closing rate of 30 to 33% all the way down to single digits, while a couple things happened. One is when, you know, the end there, of course, was, well, you know, the leads are no good. I'm like, these are people filling out a three page web form. These were leads that were coming.

00:32:02:09 - 00:32:10:21
Craig Andrews
We're not talking about somebody gave their name and phone number. They filled out a three page web form that was painful and yeah.

00:32:10:23 - 00:32:12:17
Olga Pechnenko
Was amazing.

00:32:12:19 - 00:32:17:08
Craig Andrews
Right? I was like, that's pretty high qualification there that they took the time to fill out a three page,

00:32:17:08 - 00:32:22:04
Craig Andrews
form. But one of the things that happened that found out kind of late,

00:32:22:04 - 00:32:23:07
Craig Andrews
before they, you know,

00:32:23:07 - 00:32:32:00
Craig Andrews
before we moved on from them was at one point the GM paid the sales guys more for leads that they found.

00:32:32:02 - 00:32:35:12
Craig Andrews
Then if they used one of our leads.

00:32:35:14 - 00:32:44:04
Olga Pechnenko
Wow. Wow. I mean, that's that's an that's quite something.

00:32:44:06 - 00:32:52:20
Craig Andrews
And I told him, I said you create an internal competitor to us. He's like, oh no, I didn't. They're professional. Like they're humans.

00:32:52:21 - 00:33:13:16
Olga Pechnenko
This makes me so mad. So, so so when we talk about companies. So one of the things that most companies get wrong with sales people, do you know what that is? What? It's compensation plans. Right. Exactly. To your point. And they complicate them so much and then they don't. So so my two rules for any compensation plan, if anybody is listening, I hope this is my big valuable thing for y'all.

00:33:13:22 - 00:33:32:10
Olga Pechnenko
When you do compensation plans for salespeople, there's just two rules to follow. It has to be easy for a fourth grader to understand. So that's be super easy. And the second one, it has to align with the company's goals. So in your case, you know, if if they hired you, they paid money for your services. The company said this is important to us.

00:33:32:12 - 00:33:42:08
Olga Pechnenko
Clearly they're spending money with you, but they're now saying this leads and others value us. Those leads. So like it's whoever did that created this huge,

00:33:42:08 - 00:33:53:21
Olga Pechnenko
misalignment on the goals between the personal goals, because they will go and close the deals that they find because they get paid more. I mean, that's just the human nature versus the leads that are coming from, from you where they don't get as much.

00:33:53:23 - 00:33:57:02
Olga Pechnenko
And so another thing I see very often is that they,

00:33:57:02 - 00:34:14:08
Olga Pechnenko
they, they have a quota based on, on you, on, on the business like this is your quarter million dollars, but they don't specify. It has to be new business every month or new accounts every month. And so that way it's constant drive and constant revenue generation versus just like I hit my quota, I'm done.

00:34:14:14 - 00:34:26:20
Olga Pechnenko
You know, after six months. And then you are just like what's happened. And so alignment is everything. And what a great story. I mean, I use that story with my clients like, please don't do that.

00:34:26:22 - 00:34:33:10
Craig Andrews
So let's recap on the three things. It's the when you're looking for an ideal salesperson it's sales DNA.

00:34:33:10 - 00:34:52:06
Olga Pechnenko
They gotta have the right sales DNA. Like how they built has to has to be as a salesperson because a lot of sales, a lot of people are not built to be in sales. They're just not, you know, so how they build the sales called sales styles, DNA sales talent. So it's what, you know, sales as a profession.

00:34:52:08 - 00:34:54:18
Olga Pechnenko
So do they have the skills and the talent

00:34:54:18 - 00:35:01:14
Olga Pechnenko
sales skills of like actually do the job, you know, and if they're too junior, you probably shouldn't hire them for,

00:35:01:14 - 00:35:09:15
Olga Pechnenko
you know, something where you don't have the training for, for for them. Right. And if there are two senior, maybe don't hire them to do a junior job.

00:35:09:15 - 00:35:24:04
Olga Pechnenko
I mean, vice versa. So, so often a sales skills and then the work ethic. And so those are the kind of three things that we evaluate in every interview we do, which I recommend about three. And so there's going to be a process for all three.

00:35:24:06 - 00:35:43:10
Craig Andrews
And one of the things that you said in the green room that I just love so much is this is important because if you don't get it right, your company, it's essential to the life of your company, and it ties in all the way back to your origin story. You came to America because you think America is a great place.

00:35:43:10 - 00:35:53:07
Craig Andrews
It has opportunity. If you squander this opportunity and you don't get the right sales guys, you're squandering the opportunity that America is given.

00:35:53:09 - 00:36:13:08
Olga Pechnenko
Exactly. And I mean, you could I couldn't say that better. Like, I know in your book, you talk about beliefs and that a lot of times, whoever you work with, they sometimes have to change their I think you call it bias. So to me it's like a belief system about something. And so if a company has been stuck at the same revenue level for years and years, there's a there's clear and they want to grow.

00:36:13:08 - 00:36:42:14
Olga Pechnenko
It's one thing if you don't want to grow, that's but those people don't come to us. Right. But if you want to grow, there's clearly something wrong with with how your sales are structured. I mean, there's obviously could be other things. There's product. But my point is with revenues, like if you're not growing, there's a problem with your sales team, with your revenue generation team, that that that doesn't do a job for you that they need to do in you need to relook at that and be honest with yourself and say, I need help.

00:36:42:14 - 00:36:46:19
Olga Pechnenko
Like what? You know, how can how can I fix this? And so,

00:36:46:19 - 00:36:55:18
Olga Pechnenko
because you can throw all kinds of leads at them, but if they don't know how to convert them, it doesn't really matter. It's just going to be, you know, burning money.

00:36:55:20 - 00:36:56:03
Craig Andrews
I,

00:36:56:03 - 00:36:58:01
Craig Andrews
I love your process.

00:36:58:01 - 00:37:02:02
Craig Andrews
How did people reach you? How can somebody reach you?

00:37:02:04 - 00:37:05:08
Olga Pechnenko
Well, I'm very active on LinkedIn, so find me on there.

00:37:05:08 - 00:37:08:08
Olga Pechnenko
And then my website is revenue. Viacom. And,

00:37:08:08 - 00:37:09:09
Olga Pechnenko
I know you care

00:37:09:09 - 00:37:10:22
Olga Pechnenko
a lot about impact and

00:37:10:22 - 00:37:18:16
Olga Pechnenko
me too. And so if that, you know, if you go to my website, there's a little thing that you can download and it's all free for you to,

00:37:18:16 - 00:37:27:16
Olga Pechnenko
to kind of get that process going of if you've been making mistakes, I'm, I'm giving this to you to go and and review this little PDF.

00:37:27:16 - 00:37:34:14
Olga Pechnenko
It's a three page PDF they'll kind of walk you through, where are you making the mistakes so you can stop bleeding revenue,

00:37:34:14 - 00:37:44:16
Olga Pechnenko
or, you know, reputation or whatever that is. And so that's going to be, I guess, my little gift to whoever's listening to us and who's to sick and tired of not growing. Go and check it out.

00:37:44:16 - 00:37:47:11
Olga Pechnenko
So my website revenuehire.com.

00:37:47:13 - 00:37:54:06
Craig Andrews
And Olga pension Yanko. And that's spelled p c h any and kayo.

00:37:54:08 - 00:37:57:04
Olga Pechnenko
That's correct. All right. You got it.

00:37:57:06 - 00:38:01:20
Craig Andrews
Olga. Thank you. This has been such a fun conversation. Thanks for sharing it on leaders and legacies.

00:38:01:23 - 00:38:07:00
Olga Pechnenko
Absolutely. Thanks for having me. This was fun.

00:38:07:00 - 00:38:33:19
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Alize for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00:38:33:19 - 00:38:35:14
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00:38:35:16 - 00:38:59:00
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest, tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.

00:38:59:02 - 00:39:07:06
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe your thumbs up! Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.

00:39:07:06 - 00:41:09:07
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Alize for me.com. or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.