Kyle Mealy shares a pivotal story of professional failure that reshaped his philosophy: a missed high-profile opportunity led him to reevaluate his integrity and commitment to authenticity. That experience birthed Next Level, a company that redefines the boundaries between sales and marketing, aligning them under a unified revenue strategy.

Kyle emphasizes that authenticity and integrity form the foundation of effective leadership. He critiques traditional sales and marketing silos, advocating for a "Revenue Zipper" approach where both departments function as a cohesive team focused on shared goals. He underscores the importance of measuring engagement and aligning efforts to drive revenue, dismissing vanity metrics in favor of meaningful analytics.

This conversation challenges business owners to rethink their growth strategies. Kyle’s advice: build revenue-driven systems, focus on clear ROI metrics, and cultivate a culture of transparency and problem-solving. Whether it’s rejecting outdated commission structures or embracing bold leadership, Kyle offers actionable insights for leaders ready to level up.

Want to learn more about Kyle Mealy's work? Check out his website at https://readyforthenextlevel.com/.

Connect with Kyle on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-mealy/.

Key Points and Time Stamps:

• 00:00:31 – 00:00:57: Introduction to the podcast and guest, Kyle Mealy.
• 00:01:15 – 00:03:22: Kyle recounts a life-changing failed interview, leading to a renewed commitment to authenticity.
• 00:03:23 – 00:07:02: The interplay of authenticity, integrity, and leadership in personal and professional growth.
• 00:14:00 – 00:15:27: Kyle explains why he rejects gated content, emphasizing open conversations with audiences.
• 00:19:00 – 00:20:03: Introducing the "Revenue Zipper" concept to unify sales and marketing under one vision.
• 00:22:40 – 00:24:50: Critique of traditional marketing: focus on brand versus results and ignoring analytics.
• 00:24:50 – 00:26:13: Kyle discusses outdated sales commission structures and advocates for profitability-focused systems.
• 00:28:00 – 00:29:14: Three core strategies for aligning marketing and sales: Revenue Cascade, ROI metrics, and a unified strategy statement.
• 00:29:14 – End: Closing thoughts, how to connect with Kyle, and a call to action for listeners to engage.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:30:16
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment of my career.

00:00:30:18 - 00:00:51:07
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on the show.

00:00:51:07 - 00:00:57:03
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Kyle Mealy. He is the founder of Next Level.

00:00:57:03 - 00:01:15:13
Craig Andrews
He plays the role of Chief revenue officer. Works with a lot of EOS implementers in doing that. And one of the things that really caught my attention with Kyle was he believes that a lot of businesses have a marketing head and they have a sales head.

00:01:15:13 - 00:01:25:03
Craig Andrews
And he believes that's a broken structure. So we're going to dig in to understand what he's talking about and why he believes that. And

00:01:25:03 - 00:01:26:02
Craig Andrews
so with that,

00:01:26:02 - 00:01:28:01
Craig Andrews
Kyle, welcome.

00:01:28:03 - 00:01:29:22
Kyle Mealy
Craig, thank you for having me.

00:01:29:22 - 00:01:40:03
Kyle Mealy
Yeah. I want your learners, your listeners, to to get some insight into how to structure their small business marketing and sales departments so they can get the growth that they're looking for.

00:01:40:05 - 00:01:52:22
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, before we go there, you were telling me a story, and we're not going to mention the guy's name, but when you mentioned it, I was like, Because I've, I've read his book.

00:01:52:22 - 00:01:54:22
Craig Andrews
I would say it's probably,

00:01:54:22 - 00:02:02:20
Craig Andrews
one of my top three most recommended books that I, I point people towards. And,

00:02:02:20 - 00:02:05:15
Craig Andrews
so when you mention it, I just, you know, have a lot of affection,

00:02:05:15 - 00:02:07:05
Craig Andrews
for a lot of admiration,

00:02:07:05 - 00:02:08:19
Craig Andrews
for this person.

00:02:08:20 - 00:02:12:07
Craig Andrews
And you said that you flubbed a job interview with them.

00:02:12:09 - 00:02:13:10
Kyle Mealy
Yeah. I,

00:02:13:10 - 00:02:21:07
Kyle Mealy
shot my shot with someone that is pretty well known in the small business world on the negotiation side. And,

00:02:21:07 - 00:02:31:00
Kyle Mealy
through my hat in the ring with 200 other people to be his number two, his, in EOS terms, is integrator. This is kind of back a little bit before this business started.

00:02:31:00 - 00:02:36:13
Kyle Mealy
I've got a weird brain that can do, you know, process and ideation, visionary side and process side.

00:02:36:13 - 00:02:44:05
Kyle Mealy
And yeah, I went through a lot of rounds of interviews with him and his team. And on the very last interview is down to me and one other person.

00:02:44:05 - 00:02:46:02
Kyle Mealy
I heard I was the front runner,

00:02:46:02 - 00:02:55:19
Kyle Mealy
until this last interview, and he said something that I didn't feel was right, that felt off, and I didn't call him out on it in the moment.

00:02:55:21 - 00:03:22:04
Kyle Mealy
And, and at that point, the interview kind of went sour and the interview stopped and pretty quickly. And I didn't get the job. And, you know, on the reflection and the pain of, you know, not landing the super high profile role, I really looked in the mirror and I had realized that somewhere along the way, I had learned the behavior had been coached in me to not speak my truth and it used to be that I would only speak my truth.

00:03:22:06 - 00:03:45:01
Kyle Mealy
And I realized that I had put so much weight on providing for my family and security that I started to not be my authentic self. And I wasn't showing up how I wanted to show up. And that was that was the moment I was still working full time for another company, and it's the moment I decided I was done working for others, and then I was going to work for myself so I could always speak my truth and be open, honest and authentic.

00:03:45:02 - 00:03:47:21
Kyle Mealy
So yeah, it was a really painful lesson.

00:03:47:21 - 00:03:52:20
Kyle Mealy
Very interesting world. I would have stepped in had I landed that job and it was mine to land. So,

00:03:52:20 - 00:03:56:08
Kyle Mealy
consider this my my come back journey.

00:03:56:10 - 00:04:05:21
Craig Andrews
So that's really interesting. If I'm hearing you right. Basically, he was baiting you. He threw out something, and he wanted you to push back against it.

00:04:05:23 - 00:04:31:22
Kyle Mealy
I think so, right? Obviously, I don't know for a fact, but I had heard from other people in the interview process that there was the one concern was that I wasn't going to directly challenge, and I clearly didn't listen to it. And clearly didn't hear the feedback. And so looking back, it was very obvious to me. Maybe it was never said out loud, but it was pretty clear that I didn't push back what I needed to say, and I can't remember what the thing was.

00:04:31:22 - 00:04:46:03
Kyle Mealy
And it kills me to this day because I want to know what it was. But I just I know that I felt this little static in my brain of like, I should call that out. And then I remember fighting, going, now I'm going to let that one pass and maybe catch one later. And that just is not how you do business.

00:04:46:03 - 00:04:55:08
Kyle Mealy
Well, in 2024. It's just it's the it's the antithesis of what I, you know, built my world on. And I realized I had gone down the wrong road. So. Yep.

00:04:55:10 - 00:05:06:12
Craig Andrews
Well, and you know, the fact that you you can go back, you can you can see where the tone of the interview changed. Yeah. I mean, I think you're probably onto something. There's, you know,

00:05:06:12 - 00:05:11:03
Craig Andrews
I used to live in Japan, and I remember when my,

00:05:11:03 - 00:05:13:15
Craig Andrews
my, my language instructors,

00:05:13:15 - 00:05:21:04
Craig Andrews
said, hey, the only reason the Japanese compliment you on your Japanese is if you go to Japan, you speak three words in Japanese.

00:05:21:06 - 00:05:47:01
Craig Andrews
They're going to they're going to praise you for how beautiful your languages. And he said, that's a form of encouragement. He said, but you, if you're in a conversation, nobody's praising you for your Japanese. That actually means you're speaking really good Japanese. And so if somebody compliments your Japanese, you know, right, then you made a mistake. And I remember when one of my conversations, it was just going and going and going.

00:05:47:01 - 00:06:08:01
Craig Andrews
No compliments. I was feeling really good. And all of a sudden now comes the compliment. I'm like crap. And I start tracing back. And I was like, oh yeah, I said that wrong. And so I think you're on to something that if there is an abrupt change and I think there's a lesson there in whatever you know, you're doing, we should be,

00:06:08:01 - 00:06:16:22
Craig Andrews
we should be monitoring our conversations, whether it's with prospects or with partners or bosses or, you know, subordinates.

00:06:17:00 - 00:06:23:19
Craig Andrews
If you see a distinct change in tone, that's always something to pay attention to.

00:06:23:21 - 00:06:24:19
Kyle Mealy
100%.

00:06:24:19 - 00:06:46:19
Kyle Mealy
I mean, I don't think I'm talking about anything that I'm an expert in, but I would say authenticity. It's hard to fake. And I think being present in the moment, it's so much easier to be authentic. And so by being present and being authentic, you're going to be able to hear those tone changes. You're going to be able to actually watch the other person.

00:06:46:21 - 00:07:02:12
Kyle Mealy
If you're just trying to think about the future, you're trying to code your words, or if you're all up in your head, you're not in part of the conversation. And I think that's when a lot of miscommunication happens. And so, you know, I didn't I didn't drink my own Kool-Aid at that point. And so lessons have been learned.

00:07:02:14 - 00:07:09:13
Craig Andrews
Well, and I'll tell you in our interview process, there's one question I ask that's purely there to figure out,

00:07:09:13 - 00:07:23:01
Craig Andrews
to measure somebody's integrity. And if somebody answers that question wrong, there's no coming back. That is an instant deal killer. I don't I try not to end the interview there.

00:07:23:01 - 00:07:26:15
Craig Andrews
I'll go on a few more questions there.

00:07:26:17 - 00:07:27:23
Kyle Mealy
But, you know.

00:07:28:01 - 00:07:34:05
Craig Andrews
Well, I do it because I don't want people to figure out my question. And and,

00:07:34:05 - 00:07:48:13
Craig Andrews
you know, it's just add a little bit of, distraction, but, you know, I, I, you know, Kyle, I think you you hit on something really important. You know, the not only authenticity, I think, is I think you're really talking about integrity.

00:07:48:14 - 00:07:53:20
Craig Andrews
It's about having the integrity, having the backbone to say what you believe.

00:07:53:22 - 00:07:57:03
Kyle Mealy
I, I absolutely agree,

00:07:57:03 - 00:08:17:17
Kyle Mealy
there's a line between integrity and authenticity, you know, and I used to teach this stuff, you know, integrity to me meant my word is my law and what I meant, what that means is if I say it, I'm going to stand behind it. And authenticity to me, you know, the way I've kind of coached it in my own head means I just speak my truth.

00:08:17:19 - 00:08:36:11
Kyle Mealy
It doesn't have to be the truth. It doesn't have to be anybody else's truth. I'm going to speak my truth. And then the integrity is to stand behind it. And so how that applies now for me is I'm going to I'm going to say what I see. I'm going to say it as I see it. I may have to, you know, shift what I think is true.

00:08:36:13 - 00:08:52:18
Kyle Mealy
Because I listen and I learn and I get that feedback from the room, but I'm not going to not say it. And if I really believe it, my integrity will show up there because I'm going to stand on it until, you know, I either convince or I get out of the room because they're going to go the wrong way, or they're not going to do the right thing.

00:08:52:18 - 00:08:56:15
Kyle Mealy
So I think they come together. I think it's a marriage for sure.

00:08:56:17 - 00:09:09:20
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, that's that's a cool story. And that, you know, and that elevates my respect for the person who is interviewing, you know, I, I'd love to meet them in person at some point. I mean, he's fascinating. He's,

00:09:09:20 - 00:09:18:09
Craig Andrews
I've applied some of his principles. And I mean, they work like magic. I mean, it's just bizarre to watch him working in real time.

00:09:18:11 - 00:09:40:15
Kyle Mealy
Oh, and I, you know, I got I got some really cool moments from that, from that process of of it playing with those tools with him to some degree. And it just like I said it, you know, you I sounds so cliche, but it's like that was a dark moment where it was like I got I got found out and I just never, just never want to go there again.

00:09:40:15 - 00:09:48:19
Kyle Mealy
And so I can always hold that up as a, as a learning point. Right. It's the shot you missed that you that you, you glad you're not glad you took.

00:09:48:21 - 00:09:52:19
Craig Andrews
Yeah. But it. Well, you know something I think very few people,

00:09:52:19 - 00:09:54:22
Craig Andrews
know about Winston Churchill.

00:09:54:22 - 00:10:03:08
Craig Andrews
So a fair number of people know that Winston Churchill failed miserably during the First World War. You know, he was,

00:10:03:08 - 00:10:13:15
Craig Andrews
chief of the Admiralty or some title like that. And there was some battle that actually wasn't his fault. But he, you know, somebody didn't deliver when they were supposed to, and it was just a massacre.

00:10:13:17 - 00:10:31:09
Craig Andrews
And they stripped him of his title and they said, they said, hey, you know, and this is, of course, England, where they there's kind of a caste system, a Western caste system. And they said, hey, we're going to give you this job in government. You know, nobody will ever know your name, but you'll have lifetime employment and, you know, so forth.

00:10:31:11 - 00:10:57:11
Craig Andrews
And Winston Churchill said, no, I need to learn how to lead men. And so he volunteered to go into battle in trench warfare in World War one, so he can figure out how to lead men. And now. Yeah. And so these moments like losing, you know, messing up that interview, these are life changing things. Everybody has a choice what they're going to do with it.

00:10:57:11 - 00:11:03:19
Craig Andrews
And it can be the most dynamic thing for them and for you. This was the launch of Next Level.

00:11:03:21 - 00:11:21:17
Kyle Mealy
Yeah, it I actually spent about a year journaling after that, trying to figure out what was I going to do, how was I going to, you know, I think it was learning. You know, I look back, there's a 55,000 word manuscript sitting on a shelf because I wrote a book of, like, trying to figure out, what do I do and why do I do it?

00:11:21:17 - 00:11:34:20
Kyle Mealy
Because I never want to be faced with a moral dilemma again. I just want to be crystal clear. This is what I saw. The view you take me or leave me as I am. And so I put that on the shelf and out came next level revenue. So I actually wrote a second book on it,

00:11:34:20 - 00:11:36:22
Kyle Mealy
on revenue.

00:11:37:00 - 00:11:46:13
Kyle Mealy
Once I figured out how to put that behind me and move forward. So yeah, it was the birth of the the business without a question. I can trace it very straight line.

00:11:46:15 - 00:11:53:23
Craig Andrews
So what for that book, what would you say is the bottom line? If somebody read that book, what would be the one thing you'd want them to walk away with?

00:11:54:01 - 00:12:13:03
Kyle Mealy
The old manuscript, the original is, say it like you see it and then learn. Because. Because you're going to if you say it like you see it, you're going to find out if you just sit there and listen, you're going to you're going to find out if it's true or not. I mean, there's that funny meme going around with the f around and find out.

00:12:13:05 - 00:12:32:08
Kyle Mealy
It's like it was an invitation to f around and find out and then learn and do something with that information, do something with that feedback. And so my, my doing something with that feedback was journaling and then building this thing that I'm really, really proud of, that that stands on a platform where I haven't had to mince words, I have.

00:12:32:08 - 00:12:37:22
Kyle Mealy
I've been okay with, you know, being told no, I've been told. People have told me I'm stupid.

00:12:37:22 - 00:12:50:21
Kyle Mealy
I people have, you know, kind of badmouthed me on LinkedIn about this idea of marketing and sales together. I had one person tell me, we've tried that fractional chief revenue officer thing for a year, and it failed you. You're going to waste your time.

00:12:50:21 - 00:13:08:18
Kyle Mealy
And I just saw this same person now posting that they're trying to restart fractional chief revenue officer. And it's because I built it different I built it different than ever before. And I don't care if you think it's wrong, I'm going to I'm going to go out there and I am going to listen. So it has evolved over the last year and a half since I started this business.

00:13:08:20 - 00:13:11:07
Kyle Mealy
But I still believe what I believe.

00:13:11:09 - 00:13:16:05
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and so let's, let's talk about that a little bit. The,

00:13:16:05 - 00:13:20:21
Craig Andrews
actually, before we go there, in the spirit of authenticity,

00:13:20:21 - 00:13:29:22
Craig Andrews
you said in the, in the green room you said something, you used a word that triggered me. It's a word that I despise. So I'm going to be authentic about that. All right, all right.

00:13:30:00 - 00:13:49:02
Craig Andrews
But what you said immediately after that also challenged me. And so you've piqued my curiosity. So you used the word lead magnet, which I hate that term. I think it puts me and puts me in the wrong mindset. I don't want to view my my clients as some,

00:13:49:02 - 00:13:53:02
Craig Andrews
rat. I'm trying to catch in a trap. And that's why I think of when I think a lead magnet.

00:13:53:02 - 00:13:59:15
Craig Andrews
We use the term conversation starters, but the next thing you said is, you know, that's,

00:13:59:15 - 00:14:14:05
Craig Andrews
but I don't believe in gated content, so it's not really a lead magnet. And I'm a strong believer in gated content. And so I'm curious that you challenged me. So now to speak authentically. Why why am I wrong?

00:14:14:07 - 00:14:35:04
Kyle Mealy
I don't think you're wrong. I think it all depends on how you're talking to your audience. It's back to having an authentic conversation with your audience. So I love conversation starter. So you're challenging me on my language. So I appreciate that have because I think it's how do you want to start the conversation with your audience is a really good way of thinking about it and how how far are you into that conversation?

00:14:35:10 - 00:14:57:15
Kyle Mealy
And so when I think about marketing and sales is one function now, the way that people consume information has changed so much since the marketing structures and the sales structures were built. And I'm going to get back to your point. So just bear with me. Is it used to be marketers get the lead salespeople, close them with the conversation of about your business is happening in the digital space.

00:14:57:15 - 00:15:27:07
Kyle Mealy
It's happening in the personal space, and those barriers are gone. And so if somebody hears about, you know, next level on a podcast, I don't want them. I want them to lean in more. I don't want them to run into an email gate to stop them from getting more information about what we're offering, because I think what I'm doing, something so different and so new that I actually need to invite more people into the into the stream and just get, you know, wrap their head around what we're doing a little later stage.

00:15:27:07 - 00:15:44:18
Kyle Mealy
I think an email is very appropriate. You want to get a little further in? Sure. I, I will do an exchange with you. I'll give you more for an email. So I think it's just where you are in the conversation. So I think I don't want to go both end, but I think authentically, you just have to be really clear about where you are with your with your lead or your prospect or your wrap.

00:15:44:22 - 00:15:47:19
Kyle Mealy
No offense if you're,

00:15:47:21 - 00:16:10:00
Craig Andrews
Yeah, it's well, I think, you know, I, I think the key in whichever path you choose, you know, whatever language you use, whatever methodology use, it's it's about having deep empathy for for your prospect and looking to genuinely solve problems in their life.

00:16:10:02 - 00:16:11:02
Kyle Mealy
100%.

00:16:11:04 - 00:16:25:22
Craig Andrews
If if you're just constructing an elaborate trap that you're trying to get them in, at some point they're going to figure out that they're the rat and you have the trap and they're going to rebel against that.

00:16:25:23 - 00:16:47:04
Kyle Mealy
They're going to get it. They're going to you're going to win. If you build an elaborate trap and it's thoughtful, you're going to get some wraps, there's no question. But it's going to get old and it's going to get obvious. And then you're going to look at yourself and go, what's wrong with my trap? And you're going to tinker with the trap, but you're never going to, like, treat your prospect like an adult and invite them into the conversation to have them sit at the table with you.

00:16:47:06 - 00:17:13:15
Kyle Mealy
And here's a really, you know, a I'm going to bring this in. It's a piece of our, you know, core intellectual property called the revenue cascade. And it is exactly why I don't believe necessarily in these lead magnets or emails or, you know, email gates, unless it's very intentional. What we do is we measure for the people who come to the place on the website where they can get the revenue cascade PDF conversation starter, and I just look for session duration.

00:17:13:15 - 00:17:33:23
Kyle Mealy
I want to know how long they're sitting there looking at it. I also have web anonymization tools sitting over top of that page, so I kind of know who came anyway. And I'm going to go invite them to a conversation in a very different way than than capturing their email today. And so I'm going to make it a little more organic, but it's not it's still an elaborate, but I'm just trying to extend the moment of the conversation.

00:17:34:01 - 00:17:40:17
Kyle Mealy
And so I watch the falloff rate for all those different parts of what I would consider a marketing funnel or customer acquisition

00:17:40:17 - 00:17:47:16
Kyle Mealy
funnel. And so it's just it's a, it's a, it's a piece I just choose the analytic and organic, more organic feeling way,

00:17:47:16 - 00:17:55:10
Kyle Mealy
because that's what the math tells me works better at this point. And I just go where the math tells me, yeah.

00:17:55:12 - 00:18:03:13
Craig Andrews
No, that's that's smart. Well, what's the what's the revenue zapper? Well, I saw you mentioned a revenue zapper. What is that?

00:18:03:15 - 00:18:23:03
Kyle Mealy
Yeah, it's it's kind of what we're talking about here a little bit. Where when does it stop being marketing and when does it start being sales and and vice versa. And so this was just a simple way of kind of bringing these two concepts together. Right? I'm not talking about sales enablement from a marketing side. I'm not. That's not what I'm talking about.

00:18:23:03 - 00:18:38:13
Kyle Mealy
Yes. Some of those pieces will be will show up. And if you think about a zip area, it's kind of illustrative. But you've got two separate things and you need to bring them together. And the, you know, chief revenue officer in my world brings them two together. But you've got marketing operations over here. You've got sales operations. Yeah.

00:18:38:13 - 00:18:42:12
Kyle Mealy
They need to be aligned and zipped in. Those teeth need to coalesce.

00:18:42:12 - 00:18:59:21
Kyle Mealy
Thinking about, you know, I think sales people need to not be salespeople. I think they need to be thought leaders and educators in the B2B space. Is that marketing or or is that sales and so revenue. Zipper just says, screw it, throw all that, you know, paradigm away.

00:19:00:02 - 00:19:09:12
Kyle Mealy
And let's just think about it as revenue. And so that's the revenue zipper. We're bringing all these pieces together into one funnel under one one branch, 1 or 1 leader.

00:19:09:14 - 00:19:20:18
Craig Andrews
So let's take it department by department. Let's start with marketing. If, if, if you were to pick on marketing departments, where do you see them falling short?

00:19:20:20 - 00:19:44:18
Kyle Mealy
Thinking that salespeople are just salespeople is the is the biggest issue or that it's sales will sell it? It's like marketers. You need to be salespeople too. You need to think about the conversation that the salespeople are having as you design your marketing operations. I think the other piece that marketers run into is a slight disrespect for analytics because, yeah, really?

00:19:44:23 - 00:20:03:21
Kyle Mealy
Engagement. Hear me out. You can you can care about the numbers, but you sound like I run into marketers. Forget about the most important number of all, which is revenue. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So this is what I mean by slight disrespect. Like analytics are supposed to tell you something about the revenue, not just that they're up.

00:20:03:21 - 00:20:07:11
Kyle Mealy
And then I think the third piece and just bear with me.

00:20:07:17 - 00:20:10:07
Kyle Mealy
I'm a little controversial, but I'm gonna speak my truth.

00:20:10:07 - 00:20:31:18
Kyle Mealy
Brand got a little over focused on brand because, yes, brand matters. Yes, brand guidelines matter. Yes. Brand consistency matters. This brand thing matters. When you're under 10 million, there's like 85 people who know you. And so like, you know, for your brand, nobody cares until you cross a certain threshold.

00:20:31:18 - 00:20:48:06
Kyle Mealy
Then I think it's relevant. And that's kind of my whole thing is like under 15 million. Let's just focus on what matters revenue. Because everything else, we can always throw money at brand. We can always solve brand. It just doesn't have to be sold. When you're at, you know, 1 million trying to get a fancy logo.

00:20:48:08 - 00:20:57:17
Craig Andrews
You know, it's funny. I'm in a conversation every now and then. We're somebody and I'm a marketer and somebody will say, Craig, why are you talking about revenue?

00:20:57:17 - 00:21:04:02
Craig Andrews
Like, what's the point of marketing if it doesn't bring the cash register, right?

00:21:04:04 - 00:21:18:08
Kyle Mealy
I think I think marketers say it, but I think there's a there's a disconnect between it and reality is my. Now, if you're an e-com B2C, a little different story here, right? I'm you know, I'm hyper focused on B2B professional services or B2B where there's

00:21:18:08 - 00:21:28:12
Kyle Mealy
there's some sort of human interaction, some sort of sales process required. They're not just clicking and buying, because then I think marketers do have to look at the numbers differently.

00:21:28:14 - 00:21:39:04
Kyle Mealy
But in B2B it just gets funny. And that's back to this revenue zipper. It's like you can't live in marketing land or sales land. You got to play in the same sandbox because you're both trying to do the same thing.

00:21:39:06 - 00:21:43:04
Craig Andrews
Yeah, well, and let me throw in a perspective on brand that,

00:21:43:04 - 00:21:50:03
Craig Andrews
you know, what I say is your brand isn't your font, your logo or your colors.

00:21:50:05 - 00:21:51:15
Kyle Mealy
Agreed.

00:21:51:17 - 00:22:15:14
Craig Andrews
The font, logo and colors are there to remind people the brand, my definition brand is brand is the emotion, the emotional connection you have with your prospective buyers. And I would even say that you can be sub 15 million and create that. Now you're not going to run a big branding campaign like Nike. The way you do it, the way I mean, you'll go broke.

00:22:15:16 - 00:22:39:23
Craig Andrews
But your way and the way you execute it on, it's different. But you know, shut up about your fonts, colors and logos until you are clear on the emotional connection you went create on people. The impression you want to make and the rest of that stuff is just there to remind people that emotional connection.

00:22:40:01 - 00:22:59:22
Kyle Mealy
Yeah, I think consistency matters to to all the people who have picked up their pitchfork saying logo and font matters, like consistency matters. They can't be surprised that you have a new logo because you've lost the emotional impact that maybe you've started to to impart on them. So there you go. I'll acknowledge that,

00:22:59:22 - 00:23:04:22
Kyle Mealy
I agree, but I think it comes back to ultimately the second half of brand.

00:23:04:22 - 00:23:24:12
Kyle Mealy
Right? Your brand promise and you have brand experience and under 15 million. What matters more is the brand experience, because that's going to end up driving your brand promise anyway, which is the, you know, the emotional connection. So I think what you're talking about is brand experience. And that has to be so buttoned up. And that has to be from the first marketing content piece.

00:23:24:12 - 00:23:49:04
Kyle Mealy
They, you know, traditional marketing content they receive all the way down at the bottom of the sales funnel when it's the document that they sign. And I think that's revenue zipper. And I think that's really what I'm talking about, is marketers can't just worry about the brand over here in the in the Nike world type. They have to think about the sales, you know, conversations that are happening and making sure that brand experience that they just put out there into the world in the marketing side matches.

00:23:49:04 - 00:24:04:07
Kyle Mealy
And when the salespeople go out there because they think they should be thought leaders and educators, right? Salespeople solve problems. The best salespeople in the world solve problems. They're not hunters. They solve problems. So they should be able to talk about solving problems in. The marketer should support that, because it's the same stuff they're writing in the blogs.

00:24:04:07 - 00:24:10:15
Kyle Mealy
Right. Like this is where the zipper came from. It's all the same conversation. And so it's brand.

00:24:10:17 - 00:24:12:14
Craig Andrews
So your critique for marketers,

00:24:12:14 - 00:24:19:03
Craig Andrews
not into the analytics enough into focused on brand. What's your critique for sales?

00:24:19:04 - 00:24:34:21
Kyle Mealy
I'm going to I'm going to lift this up a level to the, the, the, the, the C-suite here. I'm going to talk about the owner, the CEO, the visionary, whatever you call that title, the CEO or the director of operations, the CEO, the integrator and EOS speak,

00:24:34:21 - 00:24:46:03
Kyle Mealy
I'm going to talk about them first. And I run into this in to calls all the time where the number two, whoever that seed is, is like, I want sales people hitting their metrics.

00:24:46:03 - 00:25:07:17
Kyle Mealy
I want them on LinkedIn. I want them picking up the phone. I want them making X amount of calls. And that's like, when's the last time you picked this up? When it was a number you didn't know? When's the last time you took a cold call all the way through? Or if you don't. So you're you're managing these expectations based on the structure of old sales where you could Dornoch, you could smile for dollars.

00:25:07:19 - 00:25:32:23
Kyle Mealy
Marketing needs to go out in front of that. If it's somebody, you know on the other end, it's a different you pick up. And so I think setting expectations of salespeople to be someone you know will help. Now for salespeople, stop saying yes to stupid things like period, full stop, like stop it for sales leaders, stop having really icky commission structures that don't think about profitability like that.

00:25:32:23 - 00:25:51:06
Kyle Mealy
I mean, just that's one of the things we saw a lot is the profitability question on commission come into businesses where they're getting commission, like, I I'm not kidding. I was I came into a business where it was like $100,000 of commissions on or net new sales in six months or something crazy.

00:25:52:07 - 00:26:13:19
Kyle Mealy
It turns out the business ran into cash flow troubles three months later. Like real talk. You can't be paying people like that and not have any visibility to your profitability. So I think, you know, on the sales side, stop saying yes to products you can't deliver on. Stop saying yes to things that the client is asking for that you shouldn't say like be comfortable saying no.

00:26:13:21 - 00:26:14:23
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00:26:15:01 - 00:26:19:06
Kyle Mealy
And then get out there on LinkedIn and start teaching people.

00:26:19:08 - 00:26:22:22
Craig Andrews
Yeah. You know, I had a client before,

00:26:22:22 - 00:26:39:22
Craig Andrews
I been noticing their closing rate on leads have been dropping steadily over a long period of time. And at one point, he mentioned he just kind of casually mentioned the GM mentioned that. Oh, yeah,

00:26:39:22 - 00:26:50:14
Craig Andrews
sales guys get paid more when they generate their own leads. I'm like, you just built an internal competitor to me and didn't even tell me.

00:26:50:16 - 00:27:00:03
Kyle Mealy
Yeah, that's not revenue. Revenues that that's two different things. That's creating tension internally. Oh, God. Yeah, I wrote it all the time.

00:27:00:05 - 00:27:03:06
Craig Andrews
And just. He swore up and down. Oh, no, it's not an,

00:27:03:06 - 00:27:10:16
Craig Andrews
These are professionals. They're going to they're going to work the leads. I'm like, that's not what the numbers show. Why would they?

00:27:10:18 - 00:27:35:05
Kyle Mealy
Yeah, I poorly designed commission structures of treating salespeople like salespeople is a root of a lot of issues, for sure. And this is this internal tension. This is this internal like that dialog that you had is in a ginormous waste of time and energy and talent inside of a business. And when you're a small business under 15 million, you don't have time for that crap you don't have.

00:27:35:09 - 00:27:50:08
Kyle Mealy
You can't afford that kind of crap now. So that's kind of back to the whole thesis of this thing. This is what I'm talking about. When how do you have one hand doing the other? It's not like we're in we're in sync. I'm not going to call you on your crap, as long as you don't call me on my crap.

00:27:50:08 - 00:28:00:10
Kyle Mealy
In the marketing and sales leaders setting up the leadership team. Enough of that. One metric, one revenue target, one goal, one team shared fate. We're in this together.

00:28:00:12 - 00:28:02:11
Craig Andrews
Wow. So

00:28:02:11 - 00:28:17:16
Craig Andrews
as we kind of wrap up, if you were to give three things that you would recommend any business owner do in terms of their sales and marketing function, you know what should be the next three things they should do?

00:28:17:18 - 00:28:38:12
Kyle Mealy
I know I'm going to say it. It's our three core pieces of IP because that moves you beyond just marketing and sales as separate functions. Revenue cascade measure every engagement from the top of the funnel all the way to the bottom of the signature, and every little step in between. Know where the kinks are in your house. Number two a line around a North Star called the Revenue Strategy Statement.

00:28:38:16 - 00:29:08:12
Kyle Mealy
It is a simple internal document that helps marketers and salespeople talk about what you want to convince the world of it. Number three, have a very clear ROI metric. We call it rho as it's not rho as marketers. It's not that it's something different. It's return on all sales and marketing spend. And that is a our star revenue metric that we use to determine if we're profitable and efficient with every dollar, including commission salespeople, salary marketer, salary marketing tech.

00:29:08:14 - 00:29:14:04
Kyle Mealy
With those three pieces, you're going to revolutionize how you focus your growth.

00:29:14:06 - 00:29:16:02
Craig Andrews
Well, Kyle, this is,

00:29:16:02 - 00:29:21:07
Craig Andrews
this has been just a wonderful conversation. I appreciate you let me challenging you on lead.

00:29:21:09 - 00:29:24:20
Kyle Mealy
I that that was great. I learned thank you.

00:29:24:22 - 00:29:25:07
Craig Andrews
And,

00:29:25:07 - 00:29:29:11
Craig Andrews
Carl, how can people reach you?

00:29:29:13 - 00:29:43:15
Kyle Mealy
So if you go to our website ready for the next level.com, which is a fun I love that domain. Ready for the next level.com/revenue-cascade. You'll get our conversation starter I'm going to borrow that term real fast. Real quick. I'm a marketer at heart.

00:29:43:15 - 00:29:46:10
Kyle Mealy
Or you can find us on LinkedIn. Find me on LinkedIn.

00:29:46:10 - 00:29:49:02
Kyle Mealy
I'll have a conversation with anybody.

00:29:49:03 - 00:29:50:09
Craig Andrews
Kyle, thanks for sharing that.

00:29:50:09 - 00:29:52:00
Craig Andrews
Leaders and legacies.

00:29:52:02 - 00:29:55:00
Kyle Mealy
Appreciate you.

00:29:55:00 - 00:30:21:19
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Alize for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00:30:21:19 - 00:30:23:14
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00:30:23:16 - 00:30:47:00
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest, tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.

00:30:47:02 - 00:30:55:06
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe your thumbs up! Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.

00:30:55:06 - 00:32:57:07
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Alize for me.com. or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.