Chris Szado learned leadership the hard way—dodging lightning strikes and supertankers on commercial fishing boats off Canada’s Pacific coast. Now, he brings that high-stakes clarity to corporate sales. In this episode, Chris shares how his upbringing in a dangerous, consequence-heavy environment shaped his approach to leadership, trust, and accountability.

Craig and Chris dig into the difference between anxiety and fear, persuasion versus convincing, and why emotional readiness trumps facts when delivering hard truths. Chris challenges leaders to stop obsessing over their “why” and instead obsess over their “where”—the clear, repeatable objective that gives teams direction.

They also explore how standards and psychological safety create the conditions for creativity and performance. If you’re leading a sales team, building a business, or wondering why your strategy isn’t sticking, this episode will force you to rethink your approach to leadership and alignment.

Want to learn more about Chris Szado's work? Check out their website at https://www.liftsalesconsultants.com.

Connect with Chris Szado on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-szado-14690a43/.

KEY POINTS WITH TIME STAMPS

• [00:02:20] Chris’s unconventional start in leadership: 20 summers on a commercial fishing boat.

• [00:04:06] From teacher to pharmaceutical sales: pivoting careers without losing purpose.

• [00:07:25] Lessons from dangerous jobs: how fishing prepared Chris for corporate leadership.

• [00:09:35] Ownership vs employment: what a $5M “learning curve” says about corporate mindsets.

• [00:12:15] Seriousness and standards: the foundation of performance.

• [00:14:01] The challenge of telling executives their “baby is ugly.”

• [00:17:05] Managing emotion before logic: how to build persuasion into consulting.

• [00:20:13] Leadership is process-driven: trust the process, not just the outcome.

• [00:22:32] What to do when there’s no time for persuasion—emergency leadership.

• [00:26:00] Safety through clarity and standards: building creative, resilient cultures.

• [00:29:02] The difference between fear and courage in decision-making.

• [00:32:48] Why the 'where' matters more than the 'why.'

• [00:34:28] Repetition builds alignment: leaders must be relentless in communicating direction.

• [00:36:04] Chris breaks down his three offerings at Lift Sales Consultants.

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment of my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on the show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;00;59;04
Craig Andrews
day I want to welcome Chris Szado And it's not spelled like it sounds. It's a wild name. SCADA.

00;00;59;04 - 00;01;01;02
Craig Andrews
Pronounced Szado

00;01;01;02 - 00;01;09;27
Craig Andrews
Chris is a leading expert in sales. Excellent strategy and organizational transformation. I took that from his bio, and I'm just going to throw it away. I,

00;01;09;27 - 00;01;16;06
Craig Andrews
it sounds like everything else you've heard about sales in the few months I've had chance to talk with Chris.

00;01;16;09 - 00;01;22;26
Craig Andrews
This is not going to be your average sales conversation. This is going to be awesome.

00;01;22;26 - 00;01;24;08
Craig Andrews
Looking forward to it.

00;01;24;08 - 00;01;39;14
Craig Andrews
Some of the things Chris likes to talk about is clarity and language. And he says sales is all about language. And one of the things I love that Chris said is that he wants to have strong opinions on things held loosely.

00;01;39;17 - 00;01;41;06
Craig Andrews
And so we're going to talk about that.

00;01;41;06 - 00;01;47;11
Craig Andrews
Stay tuned. I think you're going to really enjoy this conversation, Chris, welcome.

00;01;47;14 - 00;01;50;24
Chris Szado
Well, it's great to be here, Craig. Really nice to meet you.

00;01;50;24 - 00;01;53;23
Chris Szado
Been excited about this for a little while now.

00;01;53;26 - 00;01;54;08
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;01;54;08 - 00;01;54;26
Craig Andrews
So,

00;01;54;26 - 00;02;00;11
Craig Andrews
you grew up in Canada and you grew up in Vancouver?

00;02;00;14 - 00;02;03;14
Chris Szado
Yeah, I grew up on Vancouver Island, and,

00;02;03;14 - 00;02;09;13
Chris Szado
Yeah, I lived in the 90s, and I've been in Vancouver now for decades.

00;02;09;15 - 00;02;20;27
Craig Andrews
Okay. And you talked about doing something that I normally associate with Alaska, but you did it from from Canada. You did some,

00;02;20;27 - 00;02;23;21
Craig Andrews
high stakes fishing.

00;02;23;24 - 00;02;43;29
Chris Szado
You know, maybe. Craig, I'll give you a bit of my, my bio in in three parts really quickly. So I have kind of an unconventional background when it comes to corporate sales and being in the corporate world. And I got here in a very complicated sort of way. I started working on a commercial fishing boat. It was my dad's family business.

00;02;43;29 - 00;03;02;04
Chris Szado
So I grew up in entrepreneurial resource based industry. And at eight years old, when you're on a commercial fishing boat in in the North Pacific, you learn a lot. Wick. So I spent 20 summers working on that boat every,

00;03;02;04 - 00;03;03;29
Chris Szado
every,

00;03;03;29 - 00;03;10;13
Chris Szado
summer vacation. The summer vacation corresponds perfectly with the fishing season. So I would be every summer on the boat working.

00;03;10;20 - 00;03;14;20
Chris Szado
And that ended up becoming a full time job. I ended up,

00;03;14;20 - 00;03;33;27
Chris Szado
running the crew by the time I was 16, 17. And then it became my career until I was 28, which allowed me a lot of freedom in terms of what I could study. I loved university, so while I was working on the boat, I was also attending school and studying whatever I wanted.

00;03;33;29 - 00;04;06;18
Chris Szado
I ended up getting a the school, became a high school teacher, loved teaching, but hated public sector systems. And I was at a real crossroads. How do I take this entrepreneurial experience in conjunction with my teaching experience and make a difference? And in a very lucky, in a very lucky circumstance, I ended up getting a job in the pharmaceutical industry, and that launched me into the world of sales, sales strategy, building companies and now having my own sales consultancy.

00;04;06;20 - 00;04;11;10
Chris Szado
So that's how I got to sit in the seat that I'm sitting in now.

00;04;11;12 - 00;04;15;08
Craig Andrews
Wow. Well, and boy, there's a lot there that I want to explore.

00;04;15;08 - 00;04;17;27
Craig Andrews
The first thing is what type of fishing were you doing?

00;04;18;00 - 00;04;20;05
Chris Szado
So we did a lot of different kinds of fishing. So,

00;04;20;05 - 00;04;23;11
Chris Szado
shrimp, salmon, halibut,

00;04;23;11 - 00;04;24;05
Chris Szado
and,

00;04;24;05 - 00;04;29;13
Chris Szado
some variations of other fisheries, but those are the primary ones. So long mining,

00;04;29;13 - 00;04;32;00
Chris Szado
trolling and trolling.

00;04;32;02 - 00;04;33;03
Craig Andrews
Okay.

00;04;33;03 - 00;04;39;01
Craig Andrews
So my picture of halibut is anytime you real one, and you're pulling a gun out and shooting it in the head,

00;04;39;01 - 00;04;41;13
Craig Andrews
do you have to do that?

00;04;41;15 - 00;04;43;28
Chris Szado
You know, when you're catching them in,

00;04;43;28 - 00;05;04;20
Chris Szado
shallower water? Yes. That is a genetically perfect creature. They are so powerful. It's incredible. But when you're working in a commercial application, they come from very, very deep. And they come to the surface quickly, which calms them down a lot. So you're not shooting any of them in the head at that point?

00;05;04;22 - 00;05;09;09
Craig Andrews
But that's a little disorienting. I mean, that's a massive pressure change.

00;05;09;11 - 00;05;09;29
Chris Szado
From,

00;05;09;29 - 00;05;16;15
Chris Szado
you know, 600ft underwater to sea level. Yeah, that's going to mess some stuff up.

00;05;16;18 - 00;05;22;06
Craig Andrews
Now, which which was your favorite would you enjoyed the most?

00;05;22;09 - 00;05;39;18
Chris Szado
Oh, salmon fishing by far. Hook and line trolling. Everything's by hand. Each fish is literally pulled in like this. And it's a very high quality product, incredibly sustainable kind of fishery and just a wonderful business beginning to end.

00;05;39;20 - 00;05;48;10
Craig Andrews
You know, you know, the most boring fishing I've ever done is herring fishing. And in,

00;05;48;10 - 00;06;04;23
Craig Andrews
order cerned, which is the body of water between Denmark and Sweden. And you have a rig of like six shiny hooks, no bait, and you just dip the hooks in the water and your line starts shaking and shake some more, and you just keep it down there until you feel like it's shaking enough.

00;06;04;23 - 00;06;08;22
Craig Andrews
Then you pull it up and you have herring. Or most of the hooks.

00;06;08;24 - 00;06;14;03
Chris Szado
Yeah, herring. Herring is a boring but incredible fishery as well.

00;06;14;03 - 00;06;27;24
Chris Szado
I've I've been a part of that too. And you literally have hours. Not days, not weeks. You have hours to catch your whole quota for exactly that reason, Craig. They all school really easy to catch them like boring.

00;06;27;27 - 00;06;39;09
Craig Andrews
Yeah. I, I, I was on a head boat and I ended up hooking somebody on the other side of the boat. And that was the most exciting moment of the day.

00;06;39;12 - 00;06;41;15
Craig Andrews
So anyway,

00;06;41;15 - 00;07;00;29
Craig Andrews
I mean, that's that's fascinating. I, I didn't realize I mean, not too much of a surprise, considering how far north you are. I just normally consider fishing, you know, the type of fishing that you're talking about, being very much of an Alaskan thing. And, you know, when I was in college, I was looking for a summer job one year, and there was a recession.

00;07;00;29 - 00;07;09;25
Craig Andrews
It was hard, and I was actually getting ready to explore working on a, you know, commercial fishing boat in Alaska over the summer and then ended up getting another job,

00;07;09;25 - 00;07;25;10
Craig Andrews
on campus in the last minute. But I would imagine, you know, there's a very romanticized view of of fishing. Everything I see is that's that's very hard work.

00;07;25;12 - 00;07;26;16
Chris Szado
Yeah. It is,

00;07;26;16 - 00;07;53;03
Chris Szado
it's very hard work. It is the most dangerous job per capita in the world. And you learn a lot about leadership, consequence, discipline and accountability. And it's fascinating because you wouldn't immediately think that there'd be a lot of parallels or overlap between working on a commercial fishing boat and navigating the corporate world and the world of leadership.

00;07;53;06 - 00;08;20;23
Chris Szado
However, it was an incredible training ground for me to be doing what I'm doing now, and the insight and what's fascinating, Craig, is all of the business lessons that I learned in that entrepreneurial experience, which was brutal, were only affirmed when I got into the corporate world. And what was also fascinating was the first meeting that I ever had with a business unit director.

00;08;20;23 - 00;08;33;10
Chris Szado
And I'll never forget this at Jansen. Also, I was like, oh, okay. That's the difference between being an entrepreneur and working in the corporate world. And I'd love to tell you that story.

00;08;33;12 - 00;08;35;26
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Now let's let's go for it.

00;08;35;28 - 00;08;39;00
Chris Szado
So it was it was my final interview to get,

00;08;39;00 - 00;09;09;04
Chris Szado
this new sales job for a new launch product that they were super excited about. I had no idea. I knew nothing about medicine. I was just green as grass. But they wanted to hire. They did this really interesting experiment. They wanted to see who was going to do a better job, people that were green, who they trained as salespeople, who knew nothing about medicine, or were the people who had experience in medical sales going to beat people that had never sold before?

00;09;09;06 - 00;09;35;11
Chris Szado
And I was one of the people they were looking at. And we're sitting in the interview, and I was telling them the story about working on the boat, and this was like almost 25 years ago, maybe longer. And I was he goes, wow, it sounds like that's really high consequence. And I'm like, yeah, it really was. And he goes, you know, in the pharmaceutical industry, if we make a $5 million mistake, we call that part of the learning curve.

00;09;35;14 - 00;09;59;25
Chris Szado
And that. And I didn't find that funny at all. You know, as a as an entrepreneur working in that world, I'm like, if we make a $500,000 mistake, that's not just a bad year. That's the legacy of my family. That was a little cavalier here in the business unit, director of a massive organization, say 5 million as part of the learning curve.

00;09;59;27 - 00;10;08;29
Chris Szado
And that's where I started to learn the differences, ownership versus working for a corporation.

00;10;09;02 - 00;10;12;24
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, I mean, that reminds me of,

00;10;12;24 - 00;10;18;09
Craig Andrews
way back when, you know, you remember the Palm Pilots,

00;10;18;09 - 00;10;19;23
Craig Andrews
when they had those who could do.

00;10;19;23 - 00;10;21;25
Chris Szado
To to to to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;10;21;27 - 00;10;22;07
Craig Andrews
So,

00;10;22;07 - 00;10;50;12
Craig Andrews
they got bought by HP and HP say we're going to be in this market and they had a tablet coming out and they spent, you know, a couple billion buying Palm Pilot. And right at about the one year anniversary mark of doing them. And you know, if you're buying a company of that size, your first year is purely integration, getting them into your culture and figuring all that out.

00;10;50;15 - 00;10;52;11
Craig Andrews
And HP decided,

00;10;52;11 - 00;11;14;00
Craig Andrews
this probably in the right market for us. And so they wrote off the entire division, you know, another billion or two. And I just remember looking at that, and I was just like, that's more money than my business will make in the lifetime. And I can't afford to make that size a mistake.

00;11;14;02 - 00;11;17;08
Chris Szado
Right. Exactly.

00;11;17;11 - 00;11;49;01
Craig Andrews
Not even close. Wow. And I think that's, you know, it's. I mean, I think, yeah, it's nice to have the luxury to make that kind of mistake, but I think a lot of, you know, you know, certainly in America, I'm not going to speak for Canada, but for America, you know, small business is the engine of America. Most and, you know, much smaller mistakes, like you said, you know, that would be that would be the end of the company.

00;11;49;04 - 00;12;15;13
Chris Szado
Yeah. The the being an entrepreneur is is really precarious. And understanding the consequence changes how you work. Objectivity becomes a really different thing. The way you work with people is far more consequential and deeply, deeply serious. Now, you know, I'm the kind of person that when people in job interviews and cultures, oh, we don't take ourselves very seriously.

00;12;15;13 - 00;12;41;03
Chris Szado
I'm like, that's not me. Yeah, that that is that is not me. I take work very, very seriously. And one of the things that we really focus on when we're, when we're working with people is what is the level of seriousness with which you're taking what you're doing, you know, are you genuinely however much you say you're caring, however much you're innovating, growing?

00;12;41;05 - 00;12;56;07
Chris Szado
Are you really taking this seriously? And that's where we always start with people. Is is assessing okay, what is the attitude and how is that attitude relating to process and behavior?

00;12;56;09 - 00;13;20;19
Craig Andrews
You know, and you know, so I'm a consultant as well. I'm, you know, more on the marketing side. But one of my frustrations, it's a gift. But it's also a frustration when I look into a company and I'm like, guys, you got your priorities all wrong. And, you know, I've learned the hard way. I can't go in and just bluntly say, guys, have your priorities all wrong.

00;13;20;21 - 00;13;24;24
Craig Andrews
They're like, oh, you mean bastard, go away.

00;13;24;24 - 00;13;41;03
Craig Andrews
And that's just me. And that may be my personality, but somewhat sometimes they're they're not being serious about the things they're supposed to just because they're not serious people. But sometimes it's just they're blind. They don't see it. They don't realize,

00;13;41;03 - 00;13;42;26
Craig Andrews
how do you see that split working out?

00;13;42;26 - 00;13;45;28
Craig Andrews
And how do you work through that with folks?

00;13;46;00 - 00;14;01;28
Chris Szado
Yeah. So, really great question. And let me rephrase it just to make sure I'm getting it right. You know, as consultants, our job is to tell people that their baby is ugly and they really like that. We tell them that that's a hard thing to do.

00;14;02;01 - 00;14;02;20
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;14;02;22 - 00;14;26;12
Chris Szado
You know, how do we have that conversation? And, you know, I've been navigating that for a long time. And how I typically did that was to ask very, very simple questions. So what is your where do you know your how and and asking executive teams these really simple questions. But that is not a great way to do it.

00;14;26;14 - 00;14;46;27
Chris Szado
Because if people don't know in the simplest way what's happening, it's really going to put them on their back foot. So there's a lot of other ways that we're working with people right now from an assessment perspective, to allow them to see what the issues are. Before I point them out directly.

00;14;46;29 - 00;15;13;23
Craig Andrews
You know, that's fine. And I want to explore where here in a second, because I think some folks are confused about that. But the the dumbest argument I ever had with my wife was I had just woken up from a six week coma and wanted to leave the hospital, and she said, you can't walk. And I was like, I can too.

00;15;13;25 - 00;15;38;16
Craig Andrews
And we go back and forth about whether or not I could walk the evidence was all in her favor. I wasn't strong enough to lift my arms or legs. I wasn't strong enough to hit the nurse's call button, and I had a a tube shooting out my throat, tied to a machine next to the bed. All the evidence was in her favor, and she kept hitting me with more and more evidence saying, Craig, you're wrong.

00;15;38;16 - 00;15;43;11
Craig Andrews
You can't walk. Look at look at the facts. And I wasn't persuadable.

00;15;43;11 - 00;16;02;18
Craig Andrews
And I feel like sometimes when we just come to our, our clients and we try to do that, I feel like we run into the same barrier. It's not about facts. It's about them realizing for themselves, hey, I've got a problem here. But under our guided questions, you know.

00;16;02;21 - 00;16;31;17
Chris Szado
Let's pick up on that, because I think that's a really cool place to be, because when you're when you're working with people and when you're working in the world of persuasion, which is what everybody is doing, we're all trying to persuade people. And maybe we can talk about the difference between persuasion and convincing down the street a little bit, but looking at this issue right now, when someone's coming to you in an emotional way and they're in an emotional place hitting them with evidence, it's not it.

00;16;31;19 - 00;17;05;18
Chris Szado
They're not in a place where they can hear it. You got to manage the emotion first, and you always got to meet emotion with commensurate emotion, or else you're just not listening to someone they're going to. They're going to roll over you or you're going to roll over them. So it's really important to make sure that we're able to appropriately empathize and label what's happening, to acknowledge what's happening with that person as you're literally telling them that they're your worldview is wrong, they're going to have a response.

00;17;05;20 - 00;17;09;16
Chris Szado
And we got to acknowledge that and be really sensitive to it.

00;17;09;19 - 00;17;31;20
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and it's interesting, the the next argument that didn't happen was when I told my wife I wanted to win my phone so I could text people. She knew I couldn't use my phone. She didn't argue with me. She's like, sure. And she pulls out her pocketbook, puts it in my hands. I stir it for five minutes and realize I don't know how to unlock it, and I hand it back to her.

00;17;31;20 - 00;17;58;17
Chris Szado
Argument one that, first of all, that story of your recovery and what you went through like it's it's incredible. And the fact that you're laughing about it now is, is also a testament to, to where you're at. However, that is a that's a wonderful technique. Just agree. Okay. Let's see for sure. You know you're in the driver's seat.

00;17;58;18 - 00;18;25;00
Chris Szado
Let's go I'm right here. But you're going to drive. And when people come to their own conclusions they don't question those conclusions. You know. So it's it's very much about allowing people or meeting people where they are at and being very respectful of that. And I know that everybody talks about that. But to action, it is a really different thing and much harder than one would think for me.

00;18;25;00 - 00;18;27;00
Craig Andrews
I struggle with patience

00;18;27;00 - 00;18;38;25
Craig Andrews
because I see the answer. I want to get to the answer quickly, and I've learned the hard way that the quickest way there is, the slowest way there.

00;18;38;27 - 00;18;54;12
Chris Szado
You know, that is that is so well-said it is so well said. The quickest way is the slowest way there because that determination is on the person you're working with, not not on you. And I share your, your,

00;18;54;12 - 00;19;08;08
Chris Szado
frustration with that. However, what I've learned is the process is infinitely more important than the solution. If you're able to sit in that place of strategy.

00;19;08;08 - 00;19;21;28
Chris Szado
Because, you know, I have a lot of frameworks that I work through. And, and the most important thing is to identify the goal. And you're aware, which I know we're going to talk about. And then what are the problems to get to the win. And that's a that's a very,

00;19;21;28 - 00;19;33;05
Chris Szado
rich conversation which provides insight. And that is where we sit discussing the insights in relation to the problem.

00;19;33;07 - 00;19;44;02
Chris Szado
And the more time we spend navigating the problem and deeply understanding it, the solution will appear. The solution will emerge.

00;19;44;05 - 00;20;13;05
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And I think that's that's key. It's I love everything you just said that, you know, the process is so important. And it's trusting the process will reveal truth. The process will point them in the direction truth. And and just having the trust that you know that they'll get there, you know. And and when they do, when it's their belief.

00;20;13;08 - 00;20;29;00
Craig Andrews
They for me, I talk a lot about autonomy, about the importance of preserving people's autonomy. You've protected their all time. Me they're in full control of their autonomy, which gives them the freedom to choose the right answer.

00;20;29;02 - 00;20;45;24
Chris Szado
Well, that's a that's a big topic, you know, and and again, that was that was a very well said. It reminds me of psychological safety. You know, the prerequisite for people to be able to be in that place, to be empowered in that way. And yes, I, I completely agree.

00;20;45;24 - 00;20;52;02
Chris Szado
The process, the process will reveal the answers because, you know, truth.

00;20;52;02 - 00;21;22;25
Chris Szado
Truth is a very funny word right now. And, you know, the truth is always simple. People are really complicated, and we work really hard to focus on the truth, to get to the truth, to get to the core, to get to the real root and foundation of what's happening. And when you boil the ocean and all you have is the distilled problem, then you're able to start talking about the truth.

00;21;22;27 - 00;21;43;24
Chris Szado
But until then, all the biases, all the different perspectives, not being able to see the forest for the trees, we have to remove all of that and make sure we're all on the same page and like, yes, that is the truth. And that is our problem. Because often we're solving the wrong problems.

00;21;43;27 - 00;21;48;10
Craig Andrews
So let me ask this. And I'm going to go back to the fishing boat.

00;21;48;10 - 00;22;06;22
Craig Andrews
There are times when you're looking at a mate on the boat and he's about put his hand around line that's going to take him overboard or something bad. You don't have a whole lot of time to be persuasive. And, you know, and so that's.

00;22;06;25 - 00;22;14;21
Craig Andrews
You know, we're not on fishing boats, but we do run into situations where we don't have time to be persuasive.

00;22;14;21 - 00;22;29;27
Craig Andrews
You know, where there are legit emergencies, you must change direction. Now, if you do not change direction, bad, bad things are going to happen. How do you identify those and how do you make that switch or how do you how do you navigate that in?

00;22;30;00 - 00;22;32;22
Craig Andrews
And when you're not on the fishing boat?

00;22;32;24 - 00;22;54;12
Chris Szado
Yeah, it's it's such a great question. And this relates to business and culture. It overlaps completely. And I'm really curious which what you think about this. So you never worry about that problem in the moment. You have to prepare yourself for that because you know it's going to happen. You know there's going to be circumstances that are really dangerous and consequential.

00;22;54;14 - 00;23;16;14
Chris Szado
And if people do not know how to behave, if we do not have standards in terms of what our best practices are, people will not be coming home and look, objectivity is really, really simple in that world. It's really, really simple. We have one problem. We have a boat and it is empty and we can only go home when it is full.

00;23;16;16 - 00;23;46;17
Chris Szado
So everything we're doing is oriented to an incredibly clear and specific objective. And there are behaviors that everyone is responsible to and a deep, deep, deep understanding of what performance looks like. So when you're in that situation and things are falling apart, like, you know, we've been hit by lightning, we've had fires on board, we've we've been seconds away from being crushed by supertankers.

00;23;46;20 - 00;24;06;13
Chris Szado
And in those situations there's no talking. Everyone's just acting because we know what to do, because we've drilled it, we've practiced it. And more than anything, the trust that we've established because of our standards is what we rely on.

00;24;06;15 - 00;24;11;04
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;24;11;06 - 00;24;16;09
Craig Andrews
Wow. There's so much there. Let's, let's poke at trust.

00;24;19;11 - 00;24;29;04
Craig Andrews
Because trust. Trust overcomes a lot. You know you can yank somebody by the collar and yank them away.

00;24;29;04 - 00;24;50;21
Craig Andrews
Even if it's pulling somebody out of a customer meeting, if you have the trust, if they know that what you're doing is in your mutual best interest and you're not, you know, they trust you to not harm them unnecessarily.

00;24;50;24 - 00;24;58;01
Craig Andrews
And I think I think that's.

00;24;58;03 - 00;25;00;07
Craig Andrews
You know, I've, I've had accounts,

00;25;00;07 - 00;25;05;10
Craig Andrews
I know one guy. And the business eventually went under.

00;25;05;10 - 00;25;16;28
Craig Andrews
He couldn't fire his top sales guy. He was addicted to the revenue, but his top sales guy was was a problem. There was not trust. And this guy acted in an untrustworthy. He acted,

00;25;16;28 - 00;25;35;24
Craig Andrews
he acted in unethical ways. And, and so I think one of the things businesses have to do and it's hard, is you have to have these standards like you were talking about that you know what?

00;25;35;24 - 00;25;46;24
Craig Andrews
There's lines. If you cross, you won't be working here anymore. And those lines create safety for others. It creates an element of trust that you're talking about.

00;25;46;26 - 00;25;59;15
Chris Szado
You know, can we linger on that creating safety for others. Peace. Because that is so, so critical when it comes to leadership and navigating the present moment.

00;25;59;17 - 00;26;00;24
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;26;00;27 - 00;26;04;07
Chris Szado
You know.

00;26;04;09 - 00;26;34;21
Chris Szado
The ability for us, the ability for us to be able to keep other people safe in both of our worlds is very clear. And that is all about cockpit. It's performance and standards. We cannot make the people around us safe if we do not have objectivity, clarity and alignment in terms of where we're going, how we're getting there and what we do, and we can not talk about it enough.

00;26;34;24 - 00;27;03;00
Chris Szado
The more we talk to each other about strategy based on an uncompromising understanding of the mission and where the more we will empower each other. And it's also fascinating because that kind of discipline and clarity ironically creates creativity. People start thinking out of the box. Everybody knows where we're going, what's a cooler way to get there? And we're always testing that strategy.

00;27;03;03 - 00;27;23;08
Chris Szado
We're always using all of our tactics and tools to test the hypothesis. It's never fixed. So there's something really powerful in that that makes companies, makes companies great. And that's where the differentiation lies.

00;27;23;11 - 00;27;49;28
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah. And. I think you know a lot of times you know kind of the, the common axiom is when we make decisions out of fear it's usually a bad decision. And for this one guy, the fact that he went and fire his top sales guy created an ongoing problem that eventually took the company down.

00;27;50;01 - 00;28;18;02
Chris Szado
You know, it. It reminds me of of the Machiavelli quote. People do things for two reasons love or fear. You know, which one are we tapping into? Or we scared? Or are we excited? And and there's a real confusion right now around anxiety and where anxiety should go. You better be anxious when you're doing something cool and new, but you can't be terrified.

00;28;18;04 - 00;28;42;02
Chris Szado
And there's a really interesting inflection point. And we talk about that a lot with clients around what's appropriate anxiety and then what is wrong? Fear. Because we do not want people in situations where they are uncomfortable because they're not prepared. We want people in situations where they are deeply prepared and anxious about the fact that, wow, I'm now going to perform.

00;28;42;04 - 00;28;48;18
Chris Szado
So there's a distinction there. Does that does that sort of come through? Do you see that distinction between anxiety and fear?

00;28;48;20 - 00;28;51;01
Craig Andrews
Yeah, absolutely. When I talk about,

00;28;51;01 - 00;29;02;02
Craig Andrews
you know, when people say, oh, you know, he's fearless, I'm like, only a truly stupid person is fearless. There are things that should scare you.

00;29;02;04 - 00;29;02;12
Chris Szado
Yeah.

00;29;02;14 - 00;29;22;12
Craig Andrews
Courage, on the other hand, is taking action in the presence of fear and without. Without fear, there is no such thing as courage. So we can take courageous steps, whether it's firing somebody who's a top performer because they they crossed some line or maybe in a sales situation, it's,

00;29;22;12 - 00;29;34;23
Craig Andrews
it's declining a piece of business because of a higher principle that, you know, one peril your company and that's and that's scary.

00;29;34;23 - 00;29;38;18
Craig Andrews
Walking away from revenue is scary, right?

00;29;38;21 - 00;30;12;18
Chris Szado
And that's that's the point that we're at right now because it's been really interesting. You know, taking every client, we we don't do any more garnering alignment in terms of value system is the most important prerequisite to be able to work with someone that that that we've determined. And the more your attitudes and value systems align, man, that is just the oil that reduces the friction to be able to create that trust.

00;30;12;20 - 00;30;41;05
Chris Szado
The more the value systems aligned, and the more that we understand each other's missions and are able to communicate around it. And that is it's just oil. It makes everything easy. And I'm thinking right now, two founders that I've worked with in very, very similar businesses, one, this guy, this guy is extraordinary. The other, we just could not have a conversation.

00;30;41;08 - 00;30;57;03
Chris Szado
And and it's totally okay to work with people. Say, you know what, I love what you're doing. But this the vibes just aren't there. And you gotta have that vibe with someone to be able to do the heavy, deep, consequential work that we do.

00;30;57;05 - 00;31;16;04
Craig Andrews
Yeah, absolutely. There's there's one thing that we've been skirting around, we've been touching a few times, and I will make sure we cover this before we wrap up. But you've you keep talking about where and you know, so let me set up a little bit. Yeah. Because we talked about this in the green room.

00;31;16;04 - 00;31;21;05
Craig Andrews
You know there's that famous Simon Sinek video, start with y and

00;31;21;05 - 00;31;32;20
Craig Andrews
I have to admit I, you know, I use that specific video frequently and work with clients, especially when we're trying to work on their branding.

00;31;32;22 - 00;31;33;17
Craig Andrews
But,

00;31;33;17 - 00;31;43;12
Craig Andrews
for you, you're like, I care a lot less about the why. I care more about the where. Help! Help me understand that.

00;31;43;15 - 00;32;11;05
Chris Szado
Yeah, that really great question. So Simon is awesome. And I completely understand the why when you're talking about marketing because you're already a place where like, okay, why are we doing this? And you cannot answer that question unless you know where you're going. So the where is your objective. How do we know that our objectives are right.

00;32;11;07 - 00;32;48;22
Chris Szado
And how do we clarify our objectives. And once you clarify your objective and you know your where your North Star and where you're going as a leader and visionary, you need to talk about that like a broken record. And when people start getting sick of it, that's when you talk about it more. There is nothing you can do that will be a mistake when you're telling everybody what your where is, because they know and now they can align their why to the organizational where.

00;32;48;25 - 00;33;15;12
Chris Szado
So I think we should start with where when we're working in it and we're brainstorming because we need to have objectivity and then we need to be sure, and we cannot spend enough time on clarity to garner that alignment. Once we have that alignment, the whys are going to come fast and furious, but that where is fundamental for us.

00;33;15;14 - 00;33;37;06
Chris Szado
And we work. We we spend a lot of time with C-suite determining, okay, do we know your where? And then do you know what everybody's going to be doing, what the delegation is of that and what is the problem that you're owning to get us to the where. So I can talk about that for a very, very long time.

00;33;37;06 - 00;33;42;12
Chris Szado
But yeah, in a nutshell, that's sort of the philosophy behind where.

00;33;42;14 - 00;34;05;24
Craig Andrews
Well, and something you said reminds me of a CEO I worked for, back in corporate America. And one of the things I noticed about him was he kept saying the same thing again and again and again. And I'm my natural temperament is once I tell you once, I assume you heard me, which is not the correct belief, but I yeah, he and I was like, okay, there's a reason he's CEO and I'm not.

00;34;05;27 - 00;34;28;00
Craig Andrews
What is he doing? Was he figured out and he took he would just communicate again and again and again. And that's what I'm hearing you say in this, where once you figure out the where, don't rest for a second, assuming everybody heard you and understands that part of leadership is just continually yeah, I love what did you say?

00;34;28;00 - 00;34;31;03
Craig Andrews
Once you're convinced everybody understands it, say it more.

00;34;31;06 - 00;34;50;25
Chris Szado
Yeah, yeah. When you start annoying people with your aware, that's when you know you have to talk about it even more, because now people are thinking it's on their mind. It's like a, it's like a stop sign in their brain. It's like white elephant like then I know well, you know, because what, what what do we hire people for?

00;34;50;28 - 00;34;51;24
Chris Szado
What do we have

00;34;51;24 - 00;35;24;03
Chris Szado
people for? We have them for their opinions. We need people to have really strong opinions about what we're doing because that's why we hire people. Your opinion is so valuable in that context. So it really big part of of leadership is allowing everybody to know what the wear is so they can spend all their time talking about the how to get that leader to shut up, which they never will.

00;35;24;05 - 00;35;28;16
Craig Andrews
Chris, I'm convinced we could talk for another hour and,

00;35;28;16 - 00;35;32;10
Craig Andrews
and just be absolutely enriching. But with that wrap it up.

00;35;32;10 - 00;35;37;10
Craig Andrews
And so you help businesses?

00;35;37;10 - 00;35;42;21
Craig Andrews
Well, let me not put words in your mouth. How do you help businesses? Who do you work with and how do you help them?

00;35;42;24 - 00;36;04;17
Chris Szado
So there's three things we we primarily do. We work with companies in in three deltas. So if you need sales skills, if you just want to uplift your current Salesforce, we got a ton of very, very cool courses that are done in really, really interesting ways. Like one of the courses that we have is called Leadership Lost. The other one is called sell.

00;36;04;17 - 00;36;40;28
Chris Szado
The whole not the drill. Really interesting ways of looking at sales training that's going to immediately make your people better. The second thing we do is something called lift off and that is creating strategic, strategic go to markets utilizing a very cool hierarchy of creating the most self-actualized salespeople on planet Earth. And then the third thing we do is if you're building an enterprise, sorry, if if you're building a startup and you're going from startup to scale up, we will build your sales infrastructure.

00;36;40;28 - 00;37;08;20
Chris Szado
Or if you're an enterprise and you do not know why you are not hitting revenue, we provide that advisement in terms of building your sales engine because, look, most people make the mistake of thinking that the reason they don't have sales is because their salespeople aren't performing, and that's rarely the case. Often it's far more upstream. So do we have a C-suite that knows what we're talking about?

00;37;08;23 - 00;37;22;06
Chris Szado
Do we have sales managers who understand what their jobs are, and are we taking selling seriously to empower salespeople, not blame them? And that's kind of the core of what we do.

00;37;22;08 - 00;37;26;18
Craig Andrews
Wow. That's cool. And how how can people reach you?

00;37;26;20 - 00;37;31;21
Chris Szado
So I have a website, obviously, and LinkedIn is probably the best way. My,

00;37;31;21 - 00;37;36;16
Chris Szado
my LinkedIn, there's not a lot of shadows in the world. So,

00;37;36;16 - 00;37;42;02
Chris Szado
typing in Chris Z Aido will get you connected to me right away on LinkedIn.

00;37;42;04 - 00;37;48;00
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Now that Z that's Queen speak for us in the, in the States. That's a Z.

00;37;48;00 - 00;37;49;24
Chris Szado
That's a Z. I know, I know, it's always,

00;37;49;24 - 00;37;50;17
Chris Szado
yeah. That,

00;37;50;17 - 00;37;52;10
Chris Szado
that reminds you of Tarantino.

00;37;52;10 - 00;37;56;12
Chris Szado
Z anyway, that's a that's a long ago reference.

00;37;56;12 - 00;37;58;23
Chris Szado
But yes, that's how you can reach me.

00;37;58;25 - 00;38;02;26
Craig Andrews
All right. Well, Chris, this has been wonderful. I do hope people reach out to you.

00;38;02;26 - 00;38;10;24
Craig Andrews
I have to say, this has been the best sales conversation I think I've had. And thank you for having it. Leaders and legacies.

00;38;10;27 - 00;38;16;20
Chris Szado
It's been a pleasure, Craig. Looking forward to more.

00;38;16;20 - 00;38;43;14
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Alize for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;38;43;14 - 00;38;45;09
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00;38;45;11 - 00;39;08;23
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest, tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.

00;39;08;25 - 00;39;17;00
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe your thumbs up! Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.

00;39;17;00 - 00;41;19;03
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Alize for me.com. or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.