Episode #198: Matt Ohrt's Everything is Bigger in Texas Healthcare Revolution

Matt Ohrt returns to the podcast with a bold mission: dismantle the bloated, broken health care system and replace it with a transparent, people-first model. In this episode, Matt explains why he left a successful startup to launch Rise Up Health in Texas—a state known for its independent spirit and appetite for innovation.

Matt draws on his leadership background in HR, lean manufacturing, and entrepreneurship to build a scalable health plan that rejects the status quo. He breaks down how monopolistic insurance practices hurt patients, frustrate doctors, and crush small businesses. Instead, he's advocating for free-market health care powered by independent providers.

Craig and Matt also explore the power of personal agency—from what you eat to how you lead in business and at home. Matt’s leadership doesn’t stop with health care. As a foster parent and author, he’s teaching the next generation what real support and care look like.

Want to learn more about Matt Ohrt's work? Check out their website at https://www.riseuphealthplan.com.
Connect with Matt Ohrt on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-ohrt-6a1335b/.

Key Points & Timestamps

[00:01:04] Why Matt Ohrt is back—launching Rise Up Health in Texas
[00:01:55] Writing “Welcome to Home”: a personal leadership story as a foster parent
[00:04:45] The link between diet, lifestyle, and medication-free leadership
[00:07:54] Insurance equality vs. health incentives: where leadership lines blur
[00:10:13] Why Matt left a successful startup to take a bigger leadership risk
[00:12:20] Texas as a launchpad: culture, opportunity, and policy innovation
[00:14:18] Exposing network myths: how “Best Buy” pricing hurts health care
[00:19:01] Lifeboat for the White Coat: leadership for doctors escaping big systems
[00:25:03] Toyota-style efficiency applied to health care: the leader’s advantage
[00:28:27] Transparent pricing models: the Oklahoma example
[00:33:07] Monopoly in health care: what true leadership is fighting against
[00:36:15] Why Matt leads in health care and foster care: helping people first

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.

00;00;51;13 - 00;01;04;14
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome back Matt Ohrt He's a returning guest. On the Leaders and Legacies podcast. Last time we had Matt on, he was one of the founders of Self-fund Health,

00;01;04;14 - 00;01;22;28
Craig Andrews
up in Wisconsin. And now he's doing something new. And, you know, for those that are maybe hearing of our first medical episodes, the, I'd say particular passion for me to amplify the voices of the people that are fixing health care.

00;01;23;01 - 00;01;26;18
Craig Andrews
And, you know, for me, three and a half years ago,

00;01;26;18 - 00;01;30;17
Craig Andrews
I racked up $2 million in medical expenses. And,

00;01;30;17 - 00;01;45;09
Craig Andrews
by some strange reason, lived. And there was a lot of things that was done wrong. And so I think there's broad agreement that things aren't working the way we'd like them to work in health care. And Matt is one of the people that's fixing them.

00;01;45;11 - 00;01;50;04
Craig Andrews
So he started Self-fund Health and now he's starting Rise Up Health.

00;01;50;04 - 00;01;55;04
Craig Andrews
Matt is the author of a couple books, Save Your Company. Don't Feed the beast.

00;01;55;04 - 00;02;08;05
Craig Andrews
He's also hosted a conference, the Don't Feed the Beast conference, and he's recently released another book, Welcome to Home Fostering a family. Matt is a foster parent. Matt, welcome.

00;02;08;08 - 00;02;12;29
Matt Ohrt
Yeah. Good morning. Greg. Great to be with you again. I look forward to our discussion.

00;02;13;01 - 00;02;14;29
Craig Andrews
So tell me a little bit about this, this book,

00;02;14;29 - 00;02;15;17
Craig Andrews
your new book.

00;02;15;17 - 00;02;17;14
Craig Andrews
Welcome home.

00;02;17;17 - 00;02;18;15
Matt Ohrt
Yeah, I'll tell you.

00;02;18;15 - 00;02;22;20
Matt Ohrt
Children's books are much easier to write than than regular books.

00;02;22;20 - 00;02;31;03
Matt Ohrt
But in a different, you know, challenging in a different way. But I probably I mean, that book was start to finish in something like three months.

00;02;31;03 - 00;02;35;29
Matt Ohrt
Which is far different. It's probably more of a challenge of the illustrations than the wording.

00;02;35;29 - 00;02;40;00
Matt Ohrt
And of course, the wording is much, much more brief. But yeah, just kind of,

00;02;40;00 - 00;02;41;04
Matt Ohrt
I,

00;02;41;04 - 00;02;49;11
Matt Ohrt
take the foster kids and we have one adopted. Now, the second batch I call them. We take I take them to McDonald's, Playland,

00;02;49;11 - 00;02;56;13
Matt Ohrt
to kind of let you know, get their stress out. Maybe it's an indoor playground when it's in the cold winters of Wisconsin.

00;02;56;15 - 00;03;11;11
Matt Ohrt
Not for the food. I'm not sure there's even any food to be found at McDonald's, but. But for the Playland. And so then I sit there for like 2 or 3 hours, and that's where I kind of wrote part of my book and finished it. And I just had an idea. And I'm like, you know, I've had this floating around for a while.

00;03;11;13 - 00;03;17;24
Matt Ohrt
I just started drafting this children's book, and before I know it, I've got one out there.

00;03;17;27 - 00;03;20;00
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Isn't that amazing that McDonald's,

00;03;20;00 - 00;03;24;26
Craig Andrews
was able to build a clientele by selling to the kids?

00;03;24;29 - 00;03;29;17
Matt Ohrt
Yeah, I'm not sure. It's always been like that. You know, if if maybe they've been. I know you can set, like,

00;03;29;17 - 00;03;37;19
Matt Ohrt
their food on the shelf and go back, like, months later, and it looks the same. I don't think that's true. And, I know this isn't about McDonald's, but

00;03;37;19 - 00;03;39;03
Matt Ohrt
it is about health and,

00;03;39;03 - 00;03;39;11
Matt Ohrt
Yeah.

00;03;39;11 - 00;03;43;18
Matt Ohrt
So I'll, I'll still usually get fries or something, and, but,

00;03;43;18 - 00;03;45;23
Matt Ohrt
sit there and watch the kids play.

00;03;45;25 - 00;03;48;23
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So. Yeah.

00;03;48;23 - 00;03;54;22
Craig Andrews
Well, and one thing that encourages me and in the context of this is about health,

00;03;54;22 - 00;04;05;23
Craig Andrews
you know, we're seeing a lot of change in our country where we're starting to talk about what are we putting in our bodies, you know, and things like seed oils and other things like that. And,

00;04;05;23 - 00;04;06;10
Craig Andrews
man, I

00;04;06;10 - 00;04;12;18
Craig Andrews
don't know about you, and I'm not asking, but I'm, you know, my wife tells me she's like, Craig, you're weird.

00;04;12;20 - 00;04;37;05
Craig Andrews
She actually says a lot. But this particular type weirdness is I'm in my, you know, late 50s, and I'm on zero medication. And I just think, you know, I mean, I go all the way back to when, when I was a young marine, I realized, you know, I don't need to be slurping down sodas at every meal. I had the metabolism to do it.

00;04;37;07 - 00;04;45;01
Craig Andrews
I certainly got enough exercise, but I decided to start putting different things in my body. And here I am many years later,

00;04;45;01 - 00;04;53;18
Craig Andrews
even after, you know, spending three months in the hospital, nearly dying, going into kidney failure, I'm still on the medication.

00;04;53;20 - 00;05;02;09
Matt Ohrt
Yeah, in the pharmacy industry. Would love to have, you know, a whole bunch of regular medications. That's great profit for them. And I'm the same way. I'm 51 and,

00;05;02;09 - 00;05;06;02
Matt Ohrt
really, you know, if sometimes they're they're there to help, but,

00;05;06;02 - 00;05;11;23
Matt Ohrt
certainly would avoid it if I, if I can. And a lot of that has to do with, with what we, they say you are what you eat.

00;05;11;23 - 00;05;30;21
Matt Ohrt
I think that that holds true. Right. I my grandparents on a farm in Iowa lived to be in their mid 90s and they and they eat food out of their garden. They grew a garden in their backyard on the side. And I think there's a lot of sense to that. It's more of a long term play right now, a short term do it for two weeks or something.

00;05;30;21 - 00;05;34;08
Matt Ohrt
But it's certainly is very relevant in our health today.

00;05;34;10 - 00;05;56;23
Craig Andrews
You know, I was talking to my sister in law and I'm not I'm not going to mention the drug or the manufacturer, but I said something. I just threw something out there. And it was about a popular weight loss drug. And I didn't know that she was on that drug, but I strongly suspect that. So I use the I used my lack of absolute knowledge on that to throw something out.

00;05;56;23 - 00;06;03;20
Craig Andrews
And I just said, oh, you know, that's such and such drug. It's horrible. You know, one third of the weight loss is from,

00;06;03;20 - 00;06;16;15
Craig Andrews
muscle mass, lean matter and bone density. And she's a postmenopausal woman, and she's like, Craig, I'm on that drug. And it's like the the problem. And guess what?

00;06;16;15 - 00;06;21;00
Craig Andrews
You know, the problem isn't the drugs not fixing the problem.

00;06;21;00 - 00;06;27;16
Craig Andrews
The problem is what are we taking in? And, you know, how much energy are we burning? How much are we doing that?

00;06;27;18 - 00;06;32;12
Matt Ohrt
Yeah, yeah, there's certainly applications for extreme situations, but I think,

00;06;32;12 - 00;06;48;18
Matt Ohrt
this, this culture of today. Right, which is what pharmacy loves, is there's a, you know, there's a pill for that if you're not feeling right or not or if you're gaining weight and, and all these, all these different elements that we, that we face is the lack of a pill really a root cause, right.

00;06;48;18 - 00;06;49;04
Matt Ohrt
The lack,

00;06;49;04 - 00;07;02;16
Matt Ohrt
headache is because of a lack of aspirin. And so there are applications and I won't I won't play them. I don't have a medical background, and I won't pretend to, but I, you know, I don't think you need to have a medical background to realize, too, that these are a lot of,

00;07;02;16 - 00;07;03;24
Matt Ohrt
new, new drugs.

00;07;03;24 - 00;07;20;12
Matt Ohrt
And they're doing they're having certain outcomes. But how are they getting those outcomes? And and what are the long term effects? Right. We we have no idea what the five year effects or ten year effects of those groups are. And so I personally don't want to be a lab rat. And I,

00;07;20;12 - 00;07;23;26
Matt Ohrt
I would like to lose 5 or 10 pounds as well.

00;07;23;29 - 00;07;28;25
Matt Ohrt
But, I'm going to try to do it naturally if I can. I guess so, yeah.

00;07;28;28 - 00;07;54;04
Craig Andrews
Well, and you know, it can. It raises an interesting question that that does tie back in health care. There was there was a period of time when your health care premiums were based on how healthy you were. If you if you took better care of yourself. At least that's my understanding. You tended to have lower premiums, you know, if you if you smoked and wherever weight you tended to have higher premiums.

00;07;54;07 - 00;08;06;23
Matt Ohrt
Yeah. And there's some there's still some of that today and that's the smoking. But I mean then you get the ACA. I believe it was the ACA wellness rules. Right. That came out. And then of course you can't discriminate based on that. And, and

00;08;06;23 - 00;08;11;25
Matt Ohrt
we're just kind of the society of 11th place ribbons and, you know,

00;08;11;25 - 00;08;13;05
Matt Ohrt
it doesn't matter what you do anymore.

00;08;13;05 - 00;08;27;09
Matt Ohrt
Everyone's supposed to be treated equal instead of a mirror, a merit based society. It's everyone's the same. And I don't think that helps us. I don't even think that's what America was founded on. I think we should be fair. And every every person has the same value. But,

00;08;27;09 - 00;08;31;00
Matt Ohrt
yeah, we've gone a little bit too far in the other direction, in my opinion.

00;08;31;02 - 00;08;41;22
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So, so anyway, you know, when we talk last time you were with Self-funded health, and now you're doing something new. What,

00;08;41;22 - 00;08;43;04
Craig Andrews
why the change?

00;08;43;07 - 00;09;04;11
Matt Ohrt
Yeah. No, it's a great question. And I even smile when I get that question because I've always been highly entrepreneurial. I had a baseball card business when I was ten years old, and I grab my snow shovel when it snowed and I knock on doors, and my best friend and I would come home with a wad of cash like you wouldn't believe, and then we'd go spend it all in baseball cards, you know,

00;09;04;11 - 00;09;05;07
Matt Ohrt
spend it wisely.

00;09;05;07 - 00;09;06;01
Matt Ohrt
So,

00;09;06;01 - 00;09;08;07
Matt Ohrt
but I've always had that spirit, and I ended up,

00;09;08;07 - 00;09;17;18
Matt Ohrt
even had a construction business. I started at 19 and ran for seven years. But then I went to grad school, and I followed this path that actually was very,

00;09;17;18 - 00;09;28;07
Matt Ohrt
preparatory for me. And what I'm doing today. I'm leading transformational change in organizations, learning, problem solving and lean and Toyota motor manufacturing of their flagship in Kentucky.

00;09;28;07 - 00;09;39;27
Matt Ohrt
And but following more of a career track instead of an entrepreneurial track. And I did that. And then my passion was great place to work. I worked at Badger Mining, where the number one great place to work in the nation,

00;09;39;27 - 00;09;46;07
Matt Ohrt
from Sherman Forbes. And I had an opportunity to to just learn from that and be a part of that.

00;09;46;09 - 00;09;53;22
Matt Ohrt
But really, I think at heart I'm an entrepreneur. And so we had this success story at Merrill Steele and Transforming the health plan, and then meet,

00;09;53;22 - 00;10;08;06
Matt Ohrt
John Baron, who is still a friend of mine. And I'm a part owner and so fund health, and we grew it up in it for two and a half years. We got through the hard stuff, and it's a rapidly growing health plan in Wisconsin and now spreading across the borders a little bit.

00;10;08;08 - 00;10;13;15
Matt Ohrt
So why in the world, Matt, would you walk away from a successful, fast growing startup?

00;10;13;15 - 00;10;18;09
Matt Ohrt
That's that's probably a good question, but it's really just goes back to my entrepreneurial spirit.

00;10;18;09 - 00;10;21;07
Matt Ohrt
But really, this entrepreneurial spirit is to help people. And,

00;10;21;07 - 00;10;25;06
Matt Ohrt
I'm, I can be a risk taker, but it's not it's not,

00;10;25;06 - 00;10;29;23
Matt Ohrt
to to maybe to get a pile of money, you know, that money's fine and money makes life easier.

00;10;29;23 - 00;10;35;26
Matt Ohrt
I suppose too much money can cause a lot of problems. Look at all the lottery winners. Their lives are all fall apart.

00;10;35;26 - 00;10;49;14
Matt Ohrt
But. So money isn't my primary motivator. It's a great secondary or tertiary benefit. Maybe, but my primary motivator is to help people. And I saw this. I wasn't looking in any way. In fact, I was kind of talked into it.

00;10;49;14 - 00;10;56;08
Matt Ohrt
I made a phone call that was really about a different topic, and considered it for about four months back and forth and ended up,

00;10;56;08 - 00;11;10;24
Matt Ohrt
just, you know, seeing the seeing more opportunity in Texas and say, this can be a new lily pad to jump to and a new adventure. And my real goal is to help Americans get high quality, affordable, accessible health care.

00;11;10;26 - 00;11;21;00
Matt Ohrt
To fix this pandemic of a problem, this plague of a problem that's affecting almost every American. And if we don't do something about this, the time is now.

00;11;21;00 - 00;11;28;07
Matt Ohrt
So I took a chance and went from a known to an unknown. But that's just kind of how I'm wired.

00;11;28;09 - 00;11;38;11
Craig Andrews
Yeah. What did you see in Texas? You said you saw some opportunity in Texas. What? What's it about? Because I live in Texas and I'm curious what makes us unique. All right.

00;11;38;14 - 00;11;54;29
Matt Ohrt
Yeah. In fact, we're at a launch launching this health plan. The rise of health plan. It's called rise Up health. And we're actually launching in Austin and Amarillo first, which is here in Austin. And I think we'll spread to the rest of the state fairly quickly. And maybe then beyond the borders.

00;11;54;29 - 00;11;59;12
Matt Ohrt
But there were really two things that excited me about this opportunity.

00;11;59;14 - 00;12;06;08
Matt Ohrt
As we begin to talk about it first and foremost. So I'm Midwest Farm boy. I grew up on a farm in Iowa, and I've lived in

00;12;06;08 - 00;12;15;26
Matt Ohrt
the South a little bit in terms of Tennessee and Kentucky. But I've always admired Texas, and they they joke about. Right, the nation of Texas, that that's not just a joke,

00;12;15;26 - 00;12;20;15
Matt Ohrt
that Texas actually was a nation for something like nine years way back.

00;12;20;17 - 00;12;47;02
Matt Ohrt
And cultures are very sticky. And so this, this Lone Star, this Lone Star culture, this independent thinking, right. American spirit culture of Texas is second to none in the nation. Of what? Of what we're really even doing here. Right? We're seeing the the status quo, which the big healthcare industrial complex is actually protecting with, with a ridiculous number of lobbyists in Washington.

00;12;47;02 - 00;12;54;12
Matt Ohrt
And. Right. They say as many as seven per every representative, the insurance industry sends there. And that's crazy. And,

00;12;54;12 - 00;13;06;16
Matt Ohrt
so we're up against this giant, this giant beast, if you will. But they're protecting this game because they're winning. But but they're crashing American communities. And I don't know about you. I'm not okay with that. And I'm just one person.

00;13;06;16 - 00;13;27;01
Matt Ohrt
I can't fix everything, but I'm sure going to try. I've changed my career path from an almost 25 year hr career to to this, to being a fixer or supporter of fixing employer health plans across the nation. Texas has over 30 million people, right? Wisconsin has around 6 million people. We have to build it from scratch in Texas.

00;13;27;01 - 00;13;28;01
Matt Ohrt
By the way,

00;13;28;01 - 00;13;31;21
Matt Ohrt
when you start looking around, there are all sorts of independent,

00;13;31;21 - 00;13;51;01
Matt Ohrt
medical practices in Texas, surgery centers and VPCs and you name it. And so that was the first big reason. The other is that this is associated indirectly with the with Sierra Healthcare. And we are not said there, but associated almost directly. And so this is a separate company, but

00;13;51;01 - 00;13;58;27
Matt Ohrt
one of the, there's two big in those two big walls to a health plan succeeding or an independent doctor or medical practice succeeding.

00;13;58;27 - 00;14;18;20
Matt Ohrt
One of the one that while this theme is the networks, the networks that are promoted as somehow we are buying power and we're getting you a better deal. Well, when you start comparing the prices, cash price versus best commercial rate or best negotiated insurance rate, cash wins most of the time. So. So that's a math. That's a lie.

00;14;18;22 - 00;14;34;19
Matt Ohrt
But also then you have to shop in network, right? Imagine if you only had to shop at Best Buy. I think they'd have to rename the store. It would no longer be Best Buy because they'd have you. They'd have. You can't walk away. And they say, well, you don't like the price. I'm sorry. We'll see you tomorrow because you'll be back.

00;14;34;21 - 00;14;47;24
Matt Ohrt
And that's what hospital networks do. So we need alternatives and we need to open up this free market. And the second is that the book has really have great influence over most of the sales force and the brokers in this country. And they need to find.

00;14;47;24 - 00;14;50;20
Craig Andrews
Workers for those that don't line up on the lingo.

00;14;50;22 - 00;15;11;20
Matt Ohrt
Books. Yeah. Buca used to have an HMO on their Humana, but they went more on the government side. So Blue Cross, Blue Shield, UnitedHealthCare, Cigna, Aetna is what we generically refer to as the Buckeyes or Big insurance. And they have influence over the hospitals. They control them through patient flow. If the hospitals don't code or do exactly as they want, they don't get paid.

00;15;11;20 - 00;15;16;21
Matt Ohrt
And they also don't get patient flow through these wonderful networks. And secondarily, they,

00;15;16;21 - 00;15;17;28
Matt Ohrt
they control the sales force

00;15;17;28 - 00;15;32;05
Matt Ohrt
almost 100% of it. And so anybody by the way, if you're out there, if you're if you're an advisor or your broker, broker, sell insurance advisors, look for solutions for employers. If you're either one of those and you want to talk about real solutions for employers, look me up.

00;15;32;08 - 00;15;52;17
Matt Ohrt
That's what we're really after. We're not against anyone, but we are against oppression and bankruptcy and crashing American communities. And so those are really, really the two things. And the reason the Sedaris connection is that there are opportunities there to have a health plan. That's not our BP, that's not this PM. Half of what they build and hope they accept it.

00;15;52;17 - 00;16;10;29
Matt Ohrt
That's a strategy that some years and it works somewhere. But they have a strategy that's actually network free, which would allow us to spread without restriction. So a lot of complexity there and glad glad to explain that. But if we can break through these walls, then we can really go out and help people.

00;16;11;01 - 00;16;12;02
Craig Andrews
You know, I have a,

00;16;12;02 - 00;16;27;08
Craig Andrews
I have a condition that pops up every now and then. It's called lazy on. It's basically a big bump on the eyelid. And the procedure is real simple. They, they, they peel your eyelid back and they lancet on the backside and drain it. Well, and often they just kind of resolve on their own.

00;16;27;08 - 00;16;45;13
Craig Andrews
But a few years ago I had one that wasn't resolving. And so I started calling. I'm on a high deductible plan. And so I was going to be paying out of pocket regardless. And so I call one place and they say ask how much they said 350 and you're gonna have to come in for an evaluation. And I'm like, why do I need an evaluation?

00;16;45;18 - 00;17;07;21
Craig Andrews
I'm going to walk in. You're going to look at my eye and say, Holy cow, it's a lazy on, let's land it right? And they're like, and I don't think they would budge on that. So I called someone else. One of the biggest eye care providers in Austin, in Central Texas, actually. And it got even more complicated. And there were there was like, I think another visit involved them.

00;17;07;23 - 00;17;29;19
Craig Andrews
That was like, how much is this going to be? They would never give me an exact answer, but my impression was that was around $800. And so then I called a third one and it's in Lakeway, which is, you know, very nice part of town. If you know, near Pertell, that's where Nir and his wife Katrina live. And,

00;17;29;19 - 00;17;34;15
Craig Andrews
I at least they used to, I don't know, maybe they moved out to Spicewood, but her office is in Lakeway.

00;17;34;17 - 00;17;57;29
Craig Andrews
There's a big hospital there. It was right next to the hospital, and they want me to do an evaluation. And and I was like, can we just combine it? And when they finally said, sure, how much? And they said, 250 bucks, I go in there and for 250 bucks, I get a half hour with a nurse, 45 minutes with the surgeon, and a follow up visit with the surgeon.

00;17;58;01 - 00;18;02;18
Craig Andrews
And it was great. There was no rusty scalpels. It was great health care.

00;18;02;20 - 00;18;21;10
Matt Ohrt
Right? Yeah. Imagine that. I mean, I think, you know, the the coating process and the way hospitals get paid and I, I would like to think that they're innocent and they're just affected by these big insurance. But all the hospital executives I talked to tell me they don't think like that. They're not they know what they're doing. But you have to if they don't see you in person,

00;18;21;10 - 00;18;24;03
Matt Ohrt
they don't they're unable to code and they're unable to get paid.

00;18;24;03 - 00;18;28;17
Matt Ohrt
And so, yeah, there's there's something like that really required two visits,

00;18;28;17 - 00;18;42;24
Matt Ohrt
or multiple visits and it's not likely. So when we go to, when we go to when doctors go independent, which many are many, many, many are very frustrated within these systems by the way. They can do things that make sense. They can still do great medical care.

00;18;42;24 - 00;18;46;12
Matt Ohrt
They're not taking shortcuts, as you joked, and medical care,

00;18;46;12 - 00;18;56;27
Matt Ohrt
they're just cutting out the big insurance, which is almost intentionally wasteful. And by the way, when I talk about doctors being frustrated, one of my my many,

00;18;56;27 - 00;19;01;18
Matt Ohrt
activities, if you will, is we've started this website called lifeboat for the white coat.

00;19;01;18 - 00;19;03;16
Matt Ohrt
Catchy name. Probably won't forget it.

00;19;03;19 - 00;19;07;22
Craig Andrews
I saw that, yeah, I saw you post on LinkedIn. Love that.

00;19;07;24 - 00;19;08;27
Matt Ohrt
Yeah. So that that's,

00;19;08;27 - 00;19;09;25
Matt Ohrt
that's an escape.

00;19;09;25 - 00;19;23;03
Matt Ohrt
You know, a lot of times they go through. Right? The medical school and residency and all the things, and then they're like, oh, there's like one path for this. There's only one path. And I'm. I'm in. Right. I can't veer off.

00;19;23;03 - 00;19;27;20
Matt Ohrt
But there is another path. And it's this trend back toward independent medical care.

00;19;27;20 - 00;19;35;01
Matt Ohrt
And there's essentially two buttons on that website. One is to look for a job so independent practices can post a job.

00;19;35;01 - 00;19;37;27
Matt Ohrt
And then the other is start a practice, which some,

00;19;37;27 - 00;19;45;09
Matt Ohrt
when some hear that, they get excited, some here and get nervous, they'd rather join, join up an independent practice. And then we have we're partnering with,

00;19;45;09 - 00;19;50;25
Matt Ohrt
Freedom Health Works in terms of holding their hand to us.

00;19;50;28 - 00;20;01;02
Matt Ohrt
Start a practice and their success rate is pretty high. So it's somewhere around 93 or 95%. So the chances are pretty good if they if they help.

00;20;01;04 - 00;20;17;25
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, when I told Nir Patel that story about, you know, the chelation and what have you, and he said, Craig, I know exactly the clinic you're talking about. No, exactly. Because it's we're practically neighbors. And he said that one's independent. That's why you got that deal right?

00;20;17;28 - 00;20;22;14
Matt Ohrt
Right. Yeah. It's really, well, sometimes we make, you know, make it difficult.

00;20;22;14 - 00;20;38;24
Matt Ohrt
And part of the trick is, too, is people don't realize. Why isn't this movement? Why isn't this taking off faster? Why it's so obvious. It's so intuitive to someone who can understand simple buying and selling, free market economics or business. A lot of it has to do with this.

00;20;38;24 - 00;20;59;00
Matt Ohrt
With this book, a grasp hold, right? If brokers have a majority of the plants in America, guess what? This network I talked about these independents, they don't let them. In many cases. They don't let them become in the network. Or if they do, then they're there's they have this stranglehold on them just the same in their coding. And they have their whole bunch of people, the fire insurer,

00;20;59;00 - 00;21;03;06
Matt Ohrt
send in insurance claims after the to the insurance so they'll pay em.

00;21;03;07 - 00;21;04;14
Matt Ohrt
And so

00;21;04;14 - 00;21;25;20
Matt Ohrt
but in many cases, if they choose to just stay independent and not be controlled by these networks, then they're out of network. And all these employer plans. So if employees or members want to go to them, it's not not covered in many cases. It's better just to go outside the plan. Right. 250 start to finish versus what would have been part of the deductible and all these other things.

00;21;25;20 - 00;21;27;24
Matt Ohrt
Several visits. So,

00;21;27;24 - 00;21;33;04
Matt Ohrt
yeah, as we start to start to just kick them out, we start to kick the the bad guys out of the game.

00;21;33;04 - 00;21;43;08
Matt Ohrt
Lots of good things happen for employers and patients and and for independent medical practices and hopefully eventually hospitals if they if they'll come along with us.

00;21;43;10 - 00;21;47;07
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And another example of that right here in Austin is,

00;21;47;07 - 00;21;49;11
Craig Andrews
a couple of years ago, I had to get a,

00;21;49;11 - 00;21;58;29
Craig Andrews
I think a CT scan or something with some type of radiology. And my doctor, my former doctor, I'll say, because I changed that, that was a problem.

00;21;58;29 - 00;21;59;17
Craig Andrews
They,

00;21;59;17 - 00;22;02;01
Craig Andrews
they were wed to the hospital that nearly killed me.

00;22;02;03 - 00;22;03;08
Craig Andrews
And,

00;22;03;08 - 00;22;05;07
Craig Andrews
and my doctor,

00;22;05;07 - 00;22;08;06
Craig Andrews
put out the order to the number one imaging,

00;22;08;06 - 00;22;28;01
Craig Andrews
provider in central Texas, and it took like 2 or 3 weeks to schedule it. And I thought, I wonder if that's cheaper. And so I started looking and I just went on Google and it turns out from one of the one of the main hospitals, one of the one of the leading hospitals in Austin, directly across the street is an imaging center.

00;22;28;03 - 00;22;33;00
Craig Andrews
And instead of waiting two weeks, they said, Craig, we can get you in tomorrow instead of being $800,

00;22;33;00 - 00;22;44;02
Craig Andrews
high deductible. So I'm I'm writing that check instead of being $800. It was $400. And it was a delightful experience.

00;22;44;04 - 00;22;44;20
Matt Ohrt
Yeah. I think,

00;22;44;20 - 00;23;00;18
Matt Ohrt
you know, I've got a manufacturing background and some people, it's almost too good to be true right there. Like a quarter of the price they can get you in tomorrow instead of three weeks or six months or whatever they are. And and the quality's better. And so some people have a hard time believing that.

00;23;00;18 - 00;23;13;28
Matt Ohrt
How could it be so much less and so much better yet and be legit? And so one example I give, you know, manufacturing. So I learned lean manufacturing. In fact, before I went to Toyota, I was at a,

00;23;13;28 - 00;23;23;20
Matt Ohrt
supplier of Toyota. We sent all the original exhaust. We were about three hours away and all the original exhaust for 3000 Camrys and Avalon's every 24 hours.

00;23;23;20 - 00;23;26;20
Matt Ohrt
That's a that's a lot of exhaust pieces. And,

00;23;26;20 - 00;23;30;02
Matt Ohrt
Toyota sent to consultants over three,

00;23;30;02 - 00;23;42;20
Matt Ohrt
to help us. And we thought we had you know, I had just joined and I'm learning. But the folks that have been there a long time thought, say, we've got a pretty efficient operation. And they came in and they helped. They just started saying, why, why, why is a root cause right?

00;23;42;20 - 00;24;00;11
Matt Ohrt
Why did you miss your production today? Why do you have this quality issue? They were actually annoying our people greatly. Right. It's like, get out of here. Please leave. Like you know. Right? We know you're our customer, so we can't tell you that, but you could see it in their faces. But after six months, they started to get it, maybe even a little bit sooner.

00;24;00;11 - 00;24;29;24
Matt Ohrt
And they started to realize, wow, these guys are good. That whole plant. We ended up functioning through attrition, but like with 100 people last about 400 people. We picked up Honda, the efficiency skyrocketed, the safety skyrocketed, the delivery on time, achievement skyrocketed. And so we see these right, inefficient operations with a ton of waste, as Toyota would call it, processes that don't end down here that nobody's willing to pay for.

00;24;29;24 - 00;24;35;11
Matt Ohrt
But, you know, move it here, move it here, move it here, moved here, move it one time, things like that. So,

00;24;35;11 - 00;24;49;05
Matt Ohrt
these hospitals are just are just full of waste and in many cases, required by insurance. It's why your doctor looks at their screen when they should be looking at you. They're trying to just get everything coated or get in trouble, or they won't get paid.

00;24;49;08 - 00;24;55;17
Matt Ohrt
So that's how we do it. Think of it from an efficiency standpoint. You run in and this place is operating like a top.

00;24;55;17 - 00;25;03;17
Matt Ohrt
Toyota's in their Georgetown plan is producing 3000 cars every 24 hours. As I mentioned, no piece of inventory in that plan is more than,

00;25;03;17 - 00;25;07;15
Matt Ohrt
eight hours old, which is ridiculous since many cases four hours old.

00;25;07;17 - 00;25;15;29
Matt Ohrt
They call that just in time. So you're not moving stuff around five times, but it's that efficiency is what creates quality, and that efficiency is what creates,

00;25;15;29 - 00;25;26;16
Matt Ohrt
lower cost. And so what we're really talking about with these big hospital systems are really just a rat's nest of waste. And, we're all paying for it.

00;25;26;18 - 00;25;29;02
Craig Andrews
So as you're launching in Texas,

00;25;29;02 - 00;25;41;11
Craig Andrews
when our southern border, there's a practice, it's pretty common. People that live on the border go across the border and get their health care over there. So how's that going to work out for you guys?

00;25;41;14 - 00;25;43;20
Matt Ohrt
Yeah, so far we've stayed domestic.

00;25;43;20 - 00;25;59;18
Matt Ohrt
Just because even even medical tourism, as we call it, traveling more than an hour, we'll even give them money to go to Oklahoma Heart or oncology centers or something. I haven't ventured, at least within the health plan outside of the country. Now, I a friend of mine, Tim Murray, who runs

00;25;59;18 - 00;26;03;27
Matt Ohrt
surgery Center of Oklahoma like model in Milwaukee,

00;26;03;27 - 00;26;05;03
Matt Ohrt
my son needed,

00;26;05;03 - 00;26;07;12
Matt Ohrt
needs, don't needs with his wisdom teeth pulled.

00;26;07;19 - 00;26;13;11
Matt Ohrt
And so I texted him, I'm like, hey, Tim, can you help me here? I don't have dental insurance. And,

00;26;13;11 - 00;26;14;14
Matt Ohrt
and,

00;26;14;14 - 00;26;17;15
Matt Ohrt
so he said, yeah, I can come. He

00;26;17;15 - 00;26;20;29
Matt Ohrt
said, you and your son could fly to Cancun.

00;26;20;29 - 00;26;25;07
Matt Ohrt
For about less or the same price. If he flew alone,

00;26;25;07 - 00;26;29;19
Matt Ohrt
would be less than what? You would just pay for wisdom teeth, which is crazy.

00;26;29;19 - 00;26;31;12
Matt Ohrt
And so I haven't ventured,

00;26;31;12 - 00;26;47;25
Matt Ohrt
ventured out of the country, but I know there actually, if somebody were comfortable, even in India and other places, there are some pretty high quality medical centers. But we for now, just for patient comfort and education, we stay within the US and generally within a few states and range. We don't go too far.

00;26;47;27 - 00;26;53;29
Craig Andrews
Now, you mentioned Oklahoma, and I don't think most people know what you're talking about. What's what's going on in Oklahoma.

00;26;54;02 - 00;26;54;15
Matt Ohrt
Yeah.

00;26;54;15 - 00;26;57;09
Matt Ohrt
They're really the model, the original pioneer.

00;26;57;09 - 00;26;58;00
Matt Ohrt
So they're,

00;26;58;00 - 00;27;03;19
Matt Ohrt
in Oklahoma City, founded by Doctor Keith Smith and Doctor Steve Lanta,

00;27;03;19 - 00;27;14;07
Matt Ohrt
co-founders of the family Free Market Medical Association, which was just last week, their 11th conference, their 11th year as an organization. And,

00;27;14;07 - 00;27;16;26
Matt Ohrt
and they did something crazy, you know, they went through a lot of bumps.

00;27;16;26 - 00;27;28;19
Matt Ohrt
They have the book is trying to put them out of business and all sorts of things. But these two anesthesiologists started their own surgery center, which is also with Tim Murray is an anesthesiologist. Same in Indiana and others.

00;27;28;19 - 00;27;33;09
Matt Ohrt
But they were the first to do this. And they said, you know what? We're not only going to we're going to cut out all this waste.

00;27;33;09 - 00;27;35;06
Matt Ohrt
We're going to have an efficient,

00;27;35;06 - 00;27;44;14
Matt Ohrt
very right, well-run surgery center. We're going to hire the best surgeons, have the lowest infection rates around, and so forth, far lower. And,

00;27;44;14 - 00;27;51;04
Matt Ohrt
we're and we're going to put out eventually, I think it was around 2010, maybe in their 10th year, give or take. I have to look back at the dates.

00;27;51;04 - 00;27;55;21
Matt Ohrt
But 11, they put their prices online and

00;27;55;21 - 00;28;01;12
Matt Ohrt
which was never right is unheard of. And so one is in health care. It's mushy. Right. So how much,

00;28;01;12 - 00;28;04;16
Matt Ohrt
you know, how much does this cost? How much?

00;28;04;16 - 00;28;10;22
Matt Ohrt
Well, you know, well, this is this code and this code in this code and it's like, no, how much does this cost?

00;28;10;25 - 00;28;27;08
Matt Ohrt
Well, they bundle it together and they say, if it's an easy surgery, it's the same. And if it's a heart surgery, it's the same. They balance it. So a hip replacement you can look on there right now. Now surgery Center of Oklahoma I think it's 19,400 give or take a look for yourself. But that's the price.

00;28;27;10 - 00;28;30;15
Craig Andrews
And a normal price for hip surgery is what like 40 K.

00;28;30;17 - 00;28;31;09
Matt Ohrt
Oh my goodness.

00;28;31;09 - 00;28;37;23
Matt Ohrt
It depends on the state of Texas. You know I I'm learning Texas probably 40 to 60 K I've heard as much as

00;28;37;23 - 00;28;45;00
Matt Ohrt
Wisconsin as far worse, the fourth worst in the nation, Wisconsin, I've heard as high as 150 K for a knee or hip replacement. Wow.

00;28;45;00 - 00;28;50;01
Matt Ohrt
So. And I'd say the average in Wisconsin is probably 60 or 80.

00;28;50;04 - 00;29;09;24
Matt Ohrt
But yeah. So can you afford to fly the person, any companion, even if you have to, or drive a few hours and pay those travel costs. So the plan wins, right. So the plan wins and the member not only gets it free in this case, but gets an incentive of, say, $2,500. And so we look at those two things insurance has taught us they want premiums to go up.

00;29;09;24 - 00;29;29;13
Matt Ohrt
So they've taught us to look at the card only and say oh 3000 I'm done. They're 5000, I'm done. I don't care what the total cost is. We never shop for anything else like that. The problem is, even if you look at your card and you shop it wisely, this year's claim cost or next year's premium increase. So there I think I got a good deal and I think I have good insurance will next year.

00;29;29;13 - 00;29;35;14
Matt Ohrt
And every year I go in and get a 27% increase or something ridiculous on my premiums,

00;29;35;14 - 00;29;49;27
Matt Ohrt
I'm not winning. And so that's how that's how we win that somewhere else feels. On their eighth year in a row of frozen premiums, with a family premium of 160 a month, single premium around 40 a month. And that's what it was when I started there back in 2016.

00;29;50;00 - 00;29;56;00
Matt Ohrt
But that's how you control it. You give you incentivize the members to get better care and then you control the plan.

00;29;56;00 - 00;30;01;18
Craig Andrews
Cost, you know, and you talked about efficiency. Here's another example from my journey.

00;30;01;18 - 00;30;07;11
Craig Andrews
September 11th, 2021 I was in surgery. They were putting a track in my throat. And,

00;30;07;11 - 00;30;09;03
Craig Andrews
and of course, if you're in surgery, you have,

00;30;09;03 - 00;30;25;19
Craig Andrews
anesthesiologist. Well, just the weird thing. I was at a hospital that was in that work, but my anesthesiologist was out of network and and, you know, got nothing for a long time.

00;30;25;19 - 00;30;37;08
Craig Andrews
And then we start getting this bill, and it's almost immediately turned over to collections. I have a law firm calling me right. And and I go through things and I realize,

00;30;37;08 - 00;30;42;12
Craig Andrews
they'd never billed me. They hadn't billed me within the first 11 months, you know,

00;30;42;12 - 00;30;44;29
Craig Andrews
which, you know, for those that don't know, we have this this,

00;30;44;29 - 00;30;46;02
Craig Andrews
was it the speedy billing?

00;30;46;08 - 00;30;56;21
Craig Andrews
What's it called? Basically, it's a legal requirement that you have to bail somebody within by the first day of the 11th month after the procedures,

00;30;56;21 - 00;31;07;11
Craig Andrews
given. Or you can never collect money from them. And so that was kind of my out. Well, here's a here's the problem. I lived, right. Yes. These y'all just did this job.

00;31;07;11 - 00;31;09;27
Craig Andrews
I kind of feel like they should get paid.

00;31;10;00 - 00;31;31;09
Craig Andrews
But they had some crazy out in that work price and and all of that. And they just waited too long. They they never filed it with my insurance. And that's just some of the inefficiency. So if those anesthesiologist did the work but never got paid for it, well, they're still getting the country club membership. They're still getting the BMW.

00;31;31;16 - 00;31;35;19
Craig Andrews
So that means they're raising the prices for everybody else.

00;31;35;21 - 00;31;56;24
Matt Ohrt
Yeah I mean the theme this year for the Free Market Medical Association conference was monopoly. Like the game monopoly. And I always like to joke how does the game of monopoly hand right. When one person has full control and everyone else loses. And that's what we're seeing. And if we had a true free market and you had nonsense happening, we could probably have ten or more examples up.

00;31;56;24 - 00;32;00;07
Matt Ohrt
Right? This Anastasius, I didn't know that person was out of network,

00;32;00;07 - 00;32;16;18
Matt Ohrt
right out of the. If they if there was a true free market, you'd say that was a horrible experience. I'm not going back like we would a restaurant or a car dealership or anything else. We buy a grocery store, but in health care we say, wow, I had a horrible experience and I'm not even healed yet.

00;32;16;20 - 00;32;35;21
Matt Ohrt
And I'm getting calls from collections. I think I'll go back there next time I'm. I'm ill. Like, that's that's insane. Right? I was run over by a tractor. I shouldn't be sitting here right now talking. That tractor rolled into the mighty Wisconsin River after it rolled over me and broke five. I should have been maimed. Five ribs and a whole list of other injuries.

00;32;35;21 - 00;32;41;16
Matt Ohrt
I never had any treatment. My. I spent one night in the hospital because I wasn't able to walk out. Yeah, I tried,

00;32;41;16 - 00;32;48;05
Matt Ohrt
but over 18,000 in bills. I never had any procedures. I just had a few CTS. They let me up.

00;32;48;05 - 00;32;54;00
Matt Ohrt
Right. But if I have another E.R. issue, guess where I have to go? And so that's not a free market.

00;32;54;00 - 00;32;54;11
Matt Ohrt
That's,

00;32;54;11 - 00;33;07;16
Matt Ohrt
that's that's a monopoly control. Yeah. And that's the only way they have a line at their door, and it's the only way they get any business. So when we open up the free market, they either change like a bad restaurant or they or they won't be around.

00;33;07;18 - 00;33;32;19
Craig Andrews
Well, one of my sayings is customer needs will be met, hopefully by you. And, you know, it may not happen immediately, but over time, the customer wins because there's some entrepreneur out there just like you. It says, I see something that's broken. Nobody's excited about the experience.

00;33;32;19 - 00;33;38;10
Craig Andrews
And so you're popping up and doing that. And so before we wrap up, I want two things.

00;33;38;10 - 00;33;40;04
Craig Andrews
I want to make sure people,

00;33;40;04 - 00;33;48;19
Craig Andrews
know about your new health plan, how to how to reach you. So where do they find out about this health plan? And when, when is it launching?

00;33;48;21 - 00;33;53;13
Matt Ohrt
Yeah. So we're looking to launch as soon as June or July. And you can,

00;33;53;13 - 00;33;58;21
Matt Ohrt
reach out to me. I'm connected with many on LinkedIn. That's probably the easiest place to find me.

00;33;58;21 - 00;34;02;25
Matt Ohrt
You can just search my name on Amazon as well. For these books we talked about,

00;34;02;25 - 00;34;20;16
Matt Ohrt
or mapped out rise up health plan that. Com and so we've got a website started and, and I'm really excited about some of the design we have and some of the ways that we're going to have to simply connect the buyers of health care, which is employers and employees and their families and the sellers,

00;34;20;16 - 00;34;22;01
Matt Ohrt
which are independent practices.

00;34;22;01 - 00;34;24;03
Matt Ohrt
In some cases, hospitals.

00;34;24;03 - 00;34;27;10
Matt Ohrt
But whoever gives us the best value is where we're going to try to shop.

00;34;27;10 - 00;34;34;26
Craig Andrews
So that's something you just said, something I was assuming you were doing employers only you're going to be doing employees as well.

00;34;34;29 - 00;34;47;10
Matt Ohrt
Well, employers pay about 80% of the health plans and their employees. Yeah. So and we have an interesting connection with Sara too. So we're not directly working with them yet on that health plan. So I want to make that clear. This is a,

00;34;47;10 - 00;35;01;00
Matt Ohrt
a captive based with stop loss on the top employer self-funded plan, but 50 and under said Sara offers a great health plan, a great health ship, and about half, in my experience, half or less of what you pay on a fully insured plan.

00;35;01;02 - 00;35;10;15
Matt Ohrt
Or if it's 50 or above, then we're going to take them to the self-funded plan that we're creating the Rise Up health plan, which is going to offer sustainable premiums,

00;35;10;15 - 00;35;12;26
Matt Ohrt
and offer incredible care.

00;35;12;29 - 00;35;19;25
Craig Andrews
Okay. And is could a individual buy that instead of going through the marketplace or is this just for employers?

00;35;19;27 - 00;35;27;26
Matt Ohrt
So the Rise Up health plan is just for employers. But the Sara anybody can go on today and buy a health share. So if you're online, if you're buying a,

00;35;27;26 - 00;35;39;19
Matt Ohrt
a big insurance plan, you're probably overpaying. I talked to a farmer a couple a while back, and they were paying a 1000 a month premium in their deductible, I forget, was 10 or 12,000.

00;35;39;21 - 00;35;47;08
Matt Ohrt
So I said, you're paying like 20 to 25,000 before you even get health care. Why don't you just put it in the savings and roll the dice? But the health shares,

00;35;47;08 - 00;35;50;02
Matt Ohrt
offer more affordability in terms of a not and,

00;35;50;02 - 00;35;59;03
Matt Ohrt
illegal. You know, it's not legally insurance and that's like it. But in an insurance model, you still get great care and but you you actually have some money left in your bank account.

00;35;59;03 - 00;36;06;10
Matt Ohrt
So, so Derek can help with smaller employer group plans or individuals or families as well.

00;36;06;12 - 00;36;15;10
Craig Andrews
Very cool. And one thing I want to make sure we covered because we kind of glossed over this. Yeah. Part of your desire. So back to your children's book. Welcome to home.

00;36;15;10 - 00;36;23;10
Craig Andrews
You're a you're a foster parent. Yeah. And so what was what was the motivation for writing that book?

00;36;23;13 - 00;36;24;14
Matt Ohrt
Yeah, really? I think,

00;36;24;14 - 00;36;31;29
Matt Ohrt
my heart is to help people. So welcome to our home. And then it's looking to be maybe a series. We'll see. It was kind of expensive to make,

00;36;31;29 - 00;36;39;13
Matt Ohrt
which I'll never get my money back. Probably, it's about $2,500 to make, and I get about $3 a copy margin.

00;36;39;13 - 00;36;40;22
Matt Ohrt
But that was never my motivation.

00;36;40;22 - 00;36;43;26
Matt Ohrt
My motivation is to help people. And,

00;36;43;26 - 00;36;57;18
Matt Ohrt
we can do that in different ways. But my wife and I are doing that through fostering. We've been doing this eight years now. We've adopted. We're kind of another one that's maybe close, even have a little three month baby in the house. We've carried five babies out of the hospital, which is an interesting experience.

00;36;57;20 - 00;36;59;18
Matt Ohrt
But when our babies, plus our own

00;36;59;18 - 00;37;00;24
Matt Ohrt
way back,

00;37;00;24 - 00;37;02;08
Matt Ohrt
and then the same with health care,

00;37;02;08 - 00;37;15;22
Matt Ohrt
our, my goal is to help people and, and health care. People are oppressed and they can't do it. Same with fostering these foster children. They're thrust into the foster care system and and it's it's a bumpy ride. It's not a perfect system either.

00;37;15;25 - 00;37;28;16
Matt Ohrt
But we we trying to help them, trying to love on them. And we love we love kids, right. Kids are innocent and we want to give them a chance in life. And so we've been we've had probably 30 or approximately kids come through our home for that.

00;37;28;19 - 00;37;42;28
Craig Andrews
Wow. That's amazing. Well, Matt, thanks for coming on leaders and legacies. I do hope people reach out to you, and I'm interested in seeing what you launch here in Texas, especially for me. And,

00;37;42;28 - 00;37;45;21
Craig Andrews
you know, places that that could apply to me.

00;37;45;21 - 00;37;48;15
Craig Andrews
And thank you. Thanks for all that you're doing.

00;37;48;17 - 00;37;49;27
Matt Ohrt
Yeah. Likewise. Craig.

00;37;49;27 - 00;37;56;26
Matt Ohrt
I'll be right there in Austin in any cases with you. So I'll have to get a bite to eat or something. Or coffee. But thank you for all you're doing as well.

00;37;56;28 - 00;38;00;10
Craig Andrews
Absolutely.

00;38;00;10 - 00;38;27;04
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;38;27;04 - 00;38;28;29
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00;38;29;01 - 00;38;52;11
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest. Tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.

00;38;52;13 - 00;39;00;20
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up. Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.

00;39;00;20 - 00;41;02;23
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.