Peter Culver doesn’t just save clients money—he helps them rewrite their financial future. In this episode, Peter breaks down how tax strategy, not tax filing, is the critical leadership tool most business owners ignore. As co-founder of Wealthrive, he combines legal insight and financial acumen to reveal how affluent families protect and grow wealth across generations. Peter challenges the reactive mindset common with CPAs and presents tax planning as a proactive lever for leadership. He shares the hidden value of strategies like the Augusta Rule and “paying your kids,” while contrasting the limits of compliance with the opportunities of strategy.

Whether it’s avoiding capital gains on a $10 million sale or designing structures that maximize multi-generational impact, Peter emphasizes intent and clarity as pillars of wealth leadership. His approach reframes tax from an obligation into an opportunity—and leadership from status into stewardship.

Want to learn more about Peter Culver's work? Check out their website at https://www.wealthrive.com.

Connect with Peter Culver on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/pculver/.

Key Points with Timestamps

• (00:53) Introduction of Peter Culver and his shift from law to tax strategy

• (03:33) How Peter’s client work transitioned from contracts to wealth planning

• (06:00) The difference between CPAs and tax strategists

• (07:06) Inside the room with Tiger 21 and the silence of under-informed millionaires

• (08:57) Tax strategy as a leadership act—not a CPA’s job

• (11:07) “Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is a right.”

• (12:31) Helping clients fund their ideal life, not just save taxes

• (13:14) A real example: $10M business sale, $0 in capital gains tax

• (15:45) Where tax savings hide in real estate, business, and investments

• (16:44) Why the Augusta Rule is small but smart money

• (19:44) A $15M gain wiped clean through legal strategy

• (23:20) Using solar investment incentives to reduce taxes

• (25:58) The IRS vs. the wrong taxpayer: when audits backfire

• (27:09) What not to do: IRS Dirty Dozen warning

• (27:43) Who Peter works with and income thresholds for benefit

• (28:27) “Pay your kids”: a legal and educational strategy

• (30:14) Tax strategies for those not quite ready for full-service help

• (31:21) Free books and educational resources at Wealthrive

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;00;53;15
Craig Andrews
Today I will. Welcome Peter Culver.

00;00;53;15 - 00;01;14;22
Craig Andrews
He is the co-founder of, well, thrive. Peter is kind of an interesting bird. He trained as a lawyer and somehow ended up getting into the world of investments. And now he focuses on tax strategies that helps folks save monstrous amounts of money and taxes. And so this is going to be a really interesting,

00;01;14;22 - 00;01;17;17
Craig Andrews
discussion if you're a business owner.

00;01;17;19 - 00;01;30;04
Craig Andrews
I will guarantee that you are not taking advantage of the tax strategies at your disposal. And so listen, and I think you're going to find something interesting. Peter, welcome.

00;01;30;06 - 00;01;40;23
Peter Culver
Thank you sir. Pleasure. Pleasure to meet with you. Chat with you a little bit before this broadcast and hopefully share some interesting thoughts with your listeners.

00;01;40;25 - 00;01;46;04
Craig Andrews
So yeah. And so you went to Yale. So you're like one of the lawyers that in.

00;01;46;04 - 00;01;52;23
Peter Culver
The old days when someone like me could a B plus student could get in, that doesn't exist anymore.

00;01;52;26 - 00;01;53;11
Craig Andrews
So,

00;01;53;11 - 00;01;59;11
Craig Andrews
you decided against the Supreme Court and aren't like, a lot of love. The, justices,

00;01;59;11 - 00;01;59;23
Craig Andrews
Yale?

00;01;59;24 - 00;02;15;17
Peter Culver
Yeah, from the law school. Yeah, I think it has more. It's elevated more. You know, Bill Clinton went there, a whole bunch of really famous people went there. But I was always more interested in people than books, I guess.

00;02;15;20 - 00;02;17;29
Craig Andrews
Did you ever watch The Simpsons?

00;02;18;02 - 00;02;37;29
Peter Culver
So this is so funny. There are things in my life that I completely missed. My son is just a lunatic about the Simpsons. He could tell you everything about it. I recognize the Simpsons guy. I just missed it. It was one of those decades that, I don't know, I had young kids or something like that. There are things like that that I missed.

00;02;38;01 - 00;02;43;24
Craig Andrews
Well, the writers for The Simpsons are just, disproportionately Harvard grads.

00;02;43;28 - 00;02;44;29
Peter Culver
There you go. Explain.

00;02;45;01 - 00;02;53;21
Craig Andrews
And and they then they used the Simpsons to take a whole bunch of cheap shots at Yale. And, I mean, you just find it throughout their,

00;02;53;21 - 00;02;54;21
Craig Andrews
burns. I got I.

00;02;54;21 - 00;02;58;25
Peter Culver
Got to go and look at that. That'd be fun. You know, in my arena.

00;02;58;25 - 00;03;18;04
Peter Culver
Garry Trudeau, who did Doonesbury. If you know the Doonesbury cartoons, he's a Yale graduate. We actually went to high school. I know Garry Trudeau, and he started just doing goofy cartoons of his high school classmates. And then he went to Yale and he created all the characters.

00;03;18;04 - 00;03;25;09
Peter Culver
If you're familiar, you know, Brian Dowling, B.D., who was a famous quarterback and stuff like that. Anyway.

00;03;25;12 - 00;03;33;13
Craig Andrews
Oh that's cool. Yeah. So, so help me, help me connect the dots. You started off as a lawyer. What type of law were you practicing?

00;03;33;20 - 00;04;00;19
Peter Culver
So I would say the common theme throughout all my business career has been all my clients have been business owners. I mean, not 100%, but probably 95%. And I started out as a lawyer, and that meant they I did contracts and I helped them get loans and things like that. Eventually a couple of them and one in particular ended up being crazy successful.

00;04;00;21 - 00;04;16;12
Peter Culver
So they start accumulating wealth. And I think because they had learned to trust my judgment in the early stuff that I did for them. Then we get into estate planning, tax planning, all of that kind of,

00;04;16;12 - 00;04;17;09
Peter Culver
arena.

00;04;17;09 - 00;04;27;13
Peter Culver
And then I think, as you and I were talking before I, an opportunity came along where a couple of clients wanted to start a trust company.

00;04;27;15 - 00;04;59;17
Peter Culver
And so I ended up being the lawyer for the trust company. And I helped them raise the money to get the thing all set up. And then I don't think they'd really thought through. Well, if they got this thing off the ground, who would run the business? And to make a long story short, it ended up that I was the one who I didn't really know anything about running the business, but I knew everything about the organization of that business because I'd created it legally, and I wasn't doing that for more than a week.

00;04;59;19 - 00;05;20;14
Peter Culver
That I knew that was going to be so much more fun. I didn't leave the law because I didn't like it, but the wealth management, the tax strategy, all of that clients was just so much more enjoyable and rewarding. So I never went back. And that probably started 30, 35 years ago.

00;05;20;16 - 00;05;30;05
Craig Andrews
Wow. So this isn't a, you know, a version of the firm where you were doing money laundering for the, for the mob. You're the lawyers hiding, you know, hiding the money?

00;05;30;07 - 00;06;03;12
Peter Culver
No. None whatsoever. Pretty, pretty straight laced stuff. Although if we get into the tax arena, you know, I think there are a lot of, 110% legitimate tax strategies that clients can take advantage. They've never heard about those from their CPA. And I think there's a little bit of a thing out in the ether where, oh, if you're trying to really save on taxes, you must be like a mobster or a tax evade or stuff like that.

00;06;03;12 - 00;06;08;14
Peter Culver
And it's too bad because it's really not true at all.

00;06;08;17 - 00;06;21;17
Craig Andrews
Well, and one of my frustrations has been that, you know, I, I don't think my CPA has brought me a single tax strategy.

00;06;21;17 - 00;06;22;27
Craig Andrews
I had to hear about from,

00;06;22;27 - 00;06;32;27
Craig Andrews
the Augusta role from someone else and go to him and say, hey, I want to take advantage of this. And then it was just the mechanics of how much he would let me.

00;06;32;29 - 00;07;06;19
Peter Culver
Just give you a great story about the same thing. So I was invited in October to give. I have we have a talk that we do about some very neat tax strategies that clients can use. And there's an organization out there. Some of your listeners may have heard of it. It's called Tiger 21. And basically to get to be a member of Tiger 21, which is a networking group like WPL or Ypo or EO, sort of like a board of directors for people who are no longer in a company anymore.

00;07;06;19 - 00;07;43;00
Peter Culver
Right? Yeah. So to get to be in the club, you have to have $25 million of liquid worth wealth that you're investing. So from my perspective, that's a great audience to go and talk to, because I know those people are doing what they could be doing. So I give my little talk. It's about 30 minutes. Some people start asking some questions and then a rather forceful, tall, strong, like an entrepreneur stands up and says, guys, the people in this room, all of us, we could have any advisor we want to.

00;07;43;00 - 00;08;18;07
Peter Culver
In America, we are wealthy enough to have the best advisors. Has anybody heard before from their CPA of any of the strategies Peter just talked about? There's like you can hear a pin drop. So and I think it relates to CPAs, which are a necessary function. They do tax returns. That's more of a compliance function. They need to be done carefully, filed on time, the money sent in, all of that, it's really they deal with what happens after the client gives them the numbers.

00;08;18;10 - 00;08;41;27
Peter Culver
Right. We describe what we do as tax strategy, which is what can you do before you go to the CPA, to put it bluntly, so the numbers are smaller so that what he's or she is putting on the tax return. So and you know, you can imagine people who are compliance people have a certain personality, a certain comfort level, people who are strategists.

00;08;41;27 - 00;08;57;20
Peter Culver
Not that one is better than the other. I think you need both. And most people, almost everybody has a CPA, but very few people have an active relationship with what we would call a tax strategist. And that's what we do.

00;08;57;22 - 00;09;07;18
Craig Andrews
Well. And, you know, when I went to my CPA with the Augusta rule, sure thing that I discovered was he was very, very conservative. And which is fine because,

00;09;07;18 - 00;09;10;28
Craig Andrews
you know, a friend of mine told me, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

00;09;11;03 - 00;09;12;20
Peter Culver
No doubt, no doubt.

00;09;12;22 - 00;09;27;28
Craig Andrews
But the you know, the interesting thing was, you know, it. We you know, we ultimately and for those that don't know what the Augusta rule is, you can deduct or you can you can rent out your,

00;09;27;28 - 00;09;41;00
Craig Andrews
home, a property you have for 14 days a year, correct. Tax free. And so what I was doing was I was doing looking at Vrbo to get comps from comparable homes.

00;09;41;06 - 00;09;41;15
Craig Andrews
Right.

00;09;41;15 - 00;10;02;02
Craig Andrews
And I was wanting to deduct I was wanting to charge the full amount. And he's like, now you can't charge the full amount but do this. But the thing that was that struck me was one, he was coming from an angle of, you know, very conservative. He's looking at from a I know what, we'll get you audited and I know what I can defend versus what I can't defend, which is an important function.

00;10;02;02 - 00;10;02;24
Craig Andrews
As you point.

00;10;02;24 - 00;10;04;25
Peter Culver
Out, the question.

00;10;04;28 - 00;10;16;10
Craig Andrews
But I think what's happening and tell me if this is right, you have that force from that side, but there's not a a counter force to say, let's go push this boundary.

00;10;16;12 - 00;10;18;03
Peter Culver
Correct? Correct.

00;10;18;03 - 00;10;20;03
Peter Culver
And I would say in our work,

00;10;20;03 - 00;10;36;11
Peter Culver
some of the, the Augusta rule comes right out of the Internal Revenue Code. From our perspective in the world we live in, that's a relatively conservative strategy, because I can point the taxpayer to where the justification for that is. And then,

00;10;36;11 - 00;10;42;27
Peter Culver
there's just a whole spectrum of things that are increasingly more creative.

00;10;42;29 - 00;11;07;14
Peter Culver
And I think just like certain people have the personality to be an accountant, certain people, clients, certain type of clients have a legitimate appetite to push the boundaries a little bit and see, you know, we always say you have the tax system in America is a voluntary system. They don't come and take your money away from you.

00;11;07;14 - 00;11;11;07
Peter Culver
You file your own tax return, you report that you,

00;11;11;07 - 00;11;12;10
Peter Culver
put,

00;11;12;10 - 00;11;32;05
Peter Culver
you know, your money into the IRS. There's a famous Supreme Court judge we were talking about that name learned in hand, who said literally in an opinion tax evasion is illegal and it is tax avoidance is a right. So we're trying to help people take advantage of that.

00;11;32;05 - 00;12;03;25
Peter Culver
Right. And I think one of the thing I would say is, you know, at the tip of the iceberg, which is an image we use in our business, reducing your taxes ipso facto means you're going to get more wealthy as long as you invest it properly. That's not the real reason we help people save money on taxes is how can they take advantage of those strategies as a lever to accomplish what they're really trying to accomplish in their lives, what we call ideal life?

00;12;03;25 - 00;12;31;25
Peter Culver
I don't think most people don't wake up in the morning and say, okay, today I'm going to save more in taxes, but you can ask almost anybody, where do you see your life being in 5 or 10 years? And so if we can take a tactical strategy, one of many that we use, like reducing taxes to help get a person closer to the life they want to live, that's that's really the whole process that we're engaged in.

00;12;31;27 - 00;12;35;07
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, I've, I've done some work with,

00;12;35;07 - 00;12;55;28
Craig Andrews
financial advisors. And one of the things I know is 34% a high net worth investors are what they call family stewards. Their primary goal is to create a financial legacy for their kids and grandkids. Right. So how does that play out in terms of what you do? So if we just talk about the family steward.

00;12;56;01 - 00;12;56;26
Peter Culver
I'll give I'm going to

00;12;56;26 - 00;13;14;22
Peter Culver
give it a little. This is a true case. I won't mention the names. We have a client, still a client in California. He owned part of a business for family reasons, which is? He wanted to spend more time with his family. He decided to sell his interest in the company to his partners.

00;13;14;25 - 00;13;43;16
Peter Culver
So we showed him a structure that we've designed that had the following impact. He sold his business. He got a check in his case for $10 million. He had he paid no capital gains tax on that sale. The business's basis in the business, his original investment was zero. So zero basis, $10 million proceeds in California. If he had done nothing, he would have paid $5 million in taxes.

00;13;43;18 - 00;14;06;22
Peter Culver
So the way we did that was before he sold the business. We got the business inside a structure that is a tax free structure. So the second thing that happened was after he got the money and didn't pay any capital gains tax on it, he's investing it inside this structure and he's not paying any taxes on it because it's sort of like an IRA account.

00;14;06;25 - 00;14;30;20
Peter Culver
If he wants to take money out, he's refurbishing his house right now. So he's taking some money out of the structure. He's not going to pay any taxes on withdraw it from the structure. And then in his case, what he did was he put that whole structure inside what we call a dynasty trust, basically a trust that is outside of his estate.

00;14;30;22 - 00;14;56;06
Peter Culver
So if he doesn't spend all the money and I don't think he will, and when he and his wife pass away, there's money left in the structure that would go to his family tax free. So the math I it's hard for me to do it verbally, but the compounding effect of not paying taxes over years and decades and maybe even generations is phenomenal.

00;14;56;08 - 00;15;00;08
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, if I think about it, you know, the,

00;15;00;08 - 00;15;07;05
Craig Andrews
I think most people, if they're just going to the market and they're, they're investing, you know,

00;15;07;05 - 00;15;13;23
Craig Andrews
if people could consistently do 12, 13% return on investment, that's that's a pretty nice strategy.

00;15;14;00 - 00;15;16;00
Peter Culver
Understood.

00;15;16;02 - 00;15;20;28
Craig Andrews
How much as a percentage do you save folks on taxes on their income?

00;15;21;00 - 00;15;45;12
Peter Culver
It will depend on the nature of how the income or growth was generated. So just stupid example. If I have a stock portfolio and I'm earning interest in dividends, those are generally taxed at about 20 to 25%. Same with capital gains. But if I have a real estate building or a business,

00;15;45;12 - 00;15;47;12
Peter Culver
you know, could be a higher,

00;15;47;12 - 00;15;49;07
Peter Culver
tax rate there.

00;15;49;07 - 00;16;13;24
Peter Culver
So it's a process of kind of going through the metrics of it. And I think what we find is scattered all across a person's financial life, their investments, their real estate, a business, if they own it. There are many, many opportunities to save taxes.

00;16;13;24 - 00;16;25;09
Peter Culver
And so we like to kind of get in there, dig around, understand their situation in great detail, and then come back to them with some interesting ideas to reduce taxes.

00;16;25;12 - 00;16;40;03
Craig Andrews
You know, and one of the things you told me, you really emphasize this in the green room. You know, when I discovered the Augusta roll, I was like, this is great. You know, this is a nice way for me to bring some, you know, take money out of the business. And and the tax man.

00;16;40;03 - 00;16;44;12
Craig Andrews
And the thing he said was like, Craig, that's that's small potatoes.

00;16;44;14 - 00;16;45;07
Peter Culver
Yes.

00;16;45;09 - 00;16;50;04
Craig Andrews
And I think the numbers you threw out, you were like, well, that's you know, maybe 30 or 40 K a year.

00;16;50;06 - 00;17;08;03
Peter Culver
We had a way. I mean, just for the listeners benefit, the way it works is a business is entitled to rent a home from the owner of the house, using you as an example. Well, a lot of people, when we first say that say, well, no one, no one would pay anything to come to my house for a business.

00;17;08;03 - 00;17;29;03
Peter Culver
I know what it's like. That's not how it works. The question is if instead of going to Craig's house, the business had to have a meeting, you tell me what a nice place to have a meeting in Austin, Texas is. And the short answer is around the country, it's going to vary a little bit, but it's probably 2000 to $3000 a day.

00;17;29;03 - 00;17;59;01
Peter Culver
If you went to a hotel and they did a breakfast and a lunch and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, times 14 days, it's not earth shattering, but it's not insignificant. And the thing that's great about it is it's still an expense by the business. So it's a deduction to the business whether they rent your house or, you know, the Marriott or whatever it is, but you just got 14 times 2000 or 3000 of we.

00;17;59;02 - 00;18;12;04
Peter Culver
I was just talking to a guy yesterday in California. We think the numbers out there might be closer to 4000. Just because you do comparables, right, what it would cost you to rent it. So it's a very nice,

00;18;12;04 - 00;18;21;25
Peter Culver
it's like free money there on the table. And most people who have businesses have meetings. They have them regularly.

00;18;21;25 - 00;18;31;13
Peter Culver
Some people would say it's a nicer environment to have a meeting at our house than in a conference room. Right. Or a hotel. It's more conducive.

00;18;31;13 - 00;18;34;02
Peter Culver
So that's a good one.

00;18;34;04 - 00;18;35;13
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And for me,

00;18;35;13 - 00;18;36;10
Craig Andrews
in my business,

00;18;36;10 - 00;18;52;04
Craig Andrews
I, you know, I do marketing strategy for folks. And, you know, when somebody comes to me, they're always they're always wanting a different outcome than they've had before. And the first thing I tell them is, okay, we can't meet around the same conference table where you came up with the prior ideas.

00;18;52;06 - 00;18;53;03
Peter Culver
Oh, interesting.

00;18;53;06 - 00;19;04;25
Craig Andrews
And what works best is actually something like a living room setting. Yeah. And so from that perspective, I would I get far better results when we get out of the conference room.

00;19;04;28 - 00;19;05;25
Peter Culver
Yeah.

00;19;05;27 - 00;19;14;16
Craig Andrews
And and just having a casual set, setting it, it flips levers in the brain that people don't even realize. And the things they say are different.

00;19;14;18 - 00;19;44;14
Peter Culver
And I would say back to your original question, so that's let's say that on average, 30 to $40,000 of tax free income, not nothing. Where it gets interesting is so we had a guy last year, he had $15 million capital gain. He sold an asset. The gain was $15 million. We showed him a different strategy that eliminated the capital gain tax on the gain.

00;19;44;16 - 00;20;07;23
Peter Culver
So there is a kind of thing where the more money you make and the more tax you might pay, depending upon what state you live in, it is a little bit exponential. And we can do even more for people who make more money, and especially if they live in places like California and New York, Massachusetts, the high tax states.

00;20;07;26 - 00;20;12;17
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah. So probably less for Florida.

00;20;12;20 - 00;20;34;02
Peter Culver
Chances taxes still good opportunity. But you know, Texas in New York you're probably adding another 15% on top of what someone in Austin or Florida or another low tax state, New Hampshire, you know, places like that.

00;20;34;09 - 00;20;38;14
Craig Andrews
So you said Texas in New York, I think you meant you were talking in California, in New York.

00;20;38;16 - 00;21;02;14
Peter Culver
I'm sorry. California. I mean, yeah, one is the worst, but New York is a close second. And and really, the the one that's bad in New York is if you live in New York City. Yeah. You actually pay federal tax, New York state tax and New York City tax. And it gets up close to 50%. So that's worth doing something about.

00;21;02;16 - 00;21;06;09
Craig Andrews
Wow. Yeah. No. Absolutely. And

00;21;06;09 - 00;21;16;05
Craig Andrews
you know, this is kind of a kind of a little bit of a tangent. But, you know, one of the things I discovered years ago was,

00;21;16;05 - 00;21;24;06
Craig Andrews
I had a product that I'd actually found in assembler in the United States that was going to assemble the product for half of what we were paying in Asia.

00;21;24;08 - 00;21;25;15
Peter Culver
Wow.

00;21;25;18 - 00;21;37;02
Craig Andrews
And when I discovered that they salary rent by the numbers, guys. And so I go down the basement where our numbers guys hung out and we put through the cost model and they say, oh, I have to change your tax rate.

00;21;37;02 - 00;21;46;02
Craig Andrews
You're paying 5% because we're running everything through Singapore, right? Because we're giving Americans jobs. We're going to tax you at 35%.

00;21;46;05 - 00;22;11;02
Craig Andrews
I just remember thinking, what a silly concept. You know, shouldn't we be building a culture where people wait in line to pay pay tax in a particular tax authority that instead of having to hunt them down, they're like, oh no, I want to pay tax in taxes or I want to pay tax in California, because everything that comes along with that is such a good deal for me.

00;22;11;02 - 00;22;41;03
Peter Culver
Yeah. And I think a lot of people come to that conclusion, right? Not to get into politics, but if you drew a pie chart of where taxes go, actually where they really go, the vast majority of them go to military defense and a variety of entitlement programs. But the biggest ones are things like Social Security and Medicare. I think if you walk down the street and do we want to cut our taxes just so we can shrink those two things, people might say, no,

00;22;41;03 - 00;22;49;02
Peter Culver
but, you know, I think what you're getting at is, I mean, tax policy can be an incentive.

00;22;49;02 - 00;23;20;18
Peter Culver
So one of the great tax saving strategies right now is making investments in solar projects. Individuals can make investments in solar projects. You got to like solar as a general proposition. But the government in a stat or a law called the Inflation Reduction Act, usually known as the infrastructure bill, there, there's accelerated depreciation. If you invest in a solar project and you can actually earn tax credits.

00;23;20;18 - 00;23;45;11
Peter Culver
So, you know, tax policy can be an incentive for certain kinds of behavior. And in that case, they're trying they want the investor capital to expand that type of energy. But the tax benefits are phenomenal for the taxpayer. Yeah. So some people do it just for the tax benefits. And they could care less about solar. And some people do it because they love solar.

00;23;45;11 - 00;23;54;00
Peter Culver
And some people do it because they love solar and they love the tax benefits. We don't we're agnostic, but it's another great tool.

00;23;54;00 - 00;23;57;04
Peter Culver
For taxpayers to take advantage of.

00;23;57;07 - 00;24;16;21
Craig Andrews
You know, there's something that's just been running through my head as we've been talking. And, and I think it's great. It's interesting that you're coming at this from a legal perspective. So I know somebody in town, another marketer, a little bit of a mentor to me who told me the story about how he got audited and he owed the IRS.

00;24;16;21 - 00;24;44;11
Craig Andrews
Like, you know, they came back and they said, no, they said, you owe $40,000 or something like that. Well, he has a tax attorney, and he calls him up and he says, hey, I'm going. I didn't turn. He's like, no problem. And so the ideas show up and within a day or two, instead of him owing $40,000 to the IRS, the IRS owes him like $20,000.

00;24;44;16 - 00;24;55;09
Craig Andrews
Right. And I always and when I talk to this guy, I say, you know, or when I introduce him, I'm like, yeah, this is the guy that makes IRS agents cry, you know, because they show up,

00;24;55;09 - 00;25;02;27
Craig Andrews
hoping to come back with a bounty and they end up owing money, and they just quit visiting him because they know every time they show up.

00;25;03;00 - 00;25;14;22
Peter Culver
Well, that happens a lot in our world. A version of that which is that strategy that I described a few minutes ago about the guy who sold his interest in a business in California. We invented that,

00;25;14;22 - 00;25;29;12
Peter Culver
and the IRS doesn't like to challenge things that they don't think they're going to win, because usually once they lose the first one, they're not coming back.

00;25;29;15 - 00;25;58;10
Peter Culver
Yeah, right. So they they don't want a lose. We have a client that not everybody would fit into this category. He did a strategy that was not illegal in any way but caught the interest of the IRS. So they audited him. And initially they claim some ridiculous amount of money. He owes him 2 million bucks. So we said, and he could do it, put the $2 million in a bank account and just have it sit there until this thing is over.

00;25;58;13 - 00;26;11;14
Peter Culver
Well, the thing has dragged on for years and years and years. And what the IRS didn't know is they just bumped into the one guy on the planet who thinks doing battle with the IRS is a sporting event.

00;26;11;17 - 00;26;12;00
Craig Andrews
And he.

00;26;12;07 - 00;26;29;12
Peter Culver
Going to win. So that $2 million today is like $8 million, and he'll probably settle the case for half a million. So that's a that's not everybody in America who would do that. But,

00;26;29;12 - 00;26;46;05
Peter Culver
I think people have this to your point. There's there's a notion that if I just get a letter in the mail that says my tax return is being audited, it's like the Ice guys are only five minutes behind, you know, and I'm going to jail or I'm going to be deported.

00;26;46;10 - 00;26;53;03
Peter Culver
It doesn't work like that. It's a process. Most audits are just totally random.

00;26;53;03 - 00;27;09;19
Peter Culver
Now there are a few things the IRS really doesn't like. And they tell you what the things are. There's a thing called the Dirty Dozen. They publish it every year. Don't do this. You actually have to. If you try and do. And things on the Dirty Dozen are not illegal, but you actually have to check a box on your tax return.

00;27;09;19 - 00;27;14;26
Peter Culver
That said, I did one of these things. Most people are not going to do that right? Call attention

00;27;14;26 - 00;27;16;16
Peter Culver
to themselves. But,

00;27;16;16 - 00;27;24;25
Peter Culver
an audit is just a process like any other legal process. And they're probably as many winners as there are losers.

00;27;24;27 - 00;27;30;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah. Well, Peter, this is this is really been fascinating.

00;27;30;19 - 00;27;35;19
Craig Andrews
I mean, I could see how every business would benefit from what you do.

00;27;35;19 - 00;27;43;12
Craig Andrews
But from the little bit of reading I did, I think you have there's like a minimum threshold. But who are people you work with versus people who you don't work with?

00;27;43;12 - 00;27;48;08
Peter Culver
So. So I would say if you live in

00;27;48;08 - 00;28;11;04
Peter Culver
what I would call a low tax state, right? Florida, Texas, New Hampshire, pick them all out. North Dakota, probably some places like that. Wyoming. You know, if you earn, you probably need to earn either you or your business. If you own your business together, say 500 to 1 million for us to make a measurable difference, right?

00;28;11;06 - 00;28;27;07
Peter Culver
In a high tax state, it probably could be 500,000. Now, that's not to say anybody would benefit by doing the Augusta rule if they have a business. Right. So that's just a way to,

00;28;27;07 - 00;28;33;29
Peter Culver
there's another strategy. I don't know if you when you talking to your accountant called pay the kids.

00;28;34;02 - 00;28;34;13
Craig Andrews
But,

00;28;34;13 - 00;28;35;22
Craig Andrews
I'm familiar with that one. Yeah.

00;28;35;22 - 00;28;50;17
Peter Culver
You're you're entitled to your business to hire your kids. You can pay them. I think this year it's 14, seven, $14,700, something like that. Each kid, they have to do real work. This is not a sham thing. You got to give them a job.

00;28;50;17 - 00;28;56;09
Peter Culver
But then you can set that money aside. Maybe you would put it in their 529 plan.

00;28;56;09 - 00;29;01;26
Peter Culver
Maybe you would put it in a Roth IRA. So you do that year over year,

00;29;01;26 - 00;29;20;00
Peter Culver
and there's some very creative applications of it. We have a client who's a wedding dress designer, very, very fancy wedding dresses. And so she has an online brochure and a paper brochure showing the wedding dresses. And in a bunch of those pictures, there's a bridesmaid.

00;29;20;03 - 00;29;44;19
Peter Culver
The bridesmaid is her daughter. And basically, they came up with a structure where the business pays the daughter a royalty for the use of her image in the business. That's how they got. There's a little kid. She there's there's certain things she wouldn't be able to do. So that's and they're all kinds of I mean, that's, that's a monetary gain.

00;29;44;19 - 00;29;50;19
Peter Culver
It's good for kids to learn how to work, right. And earn some money and things like that. So,

00;29;50;19 - 00;29;54;08
Peter Culver
does that answer your question? There's a whole spectrum there.

00;29;54;10 - 00;29;58;09
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, no, that's that's really good. So,

00;29;58;09 - 00;29;59;28
Craig Andrews
the,

00;29;59;28 - 00;30;14;12
Craig Andrews
and you actually answered the next question I was going to ask for those that aren't quite there, what's a couple of tax strategies that they could do to help them grow their income to, so that they can get to that point faster, where you would be valuable to them?

00;30;14;14 - 00;30;19;01
Craig Andrews
And I like that the you know, we have the Augusta rule out there. We have pay the kids the kids, right?

00;30;19;01 - 00;30;19;25
Peter Culver
Yeah.

00;30;19;28 - 00;30;21;19
Craig Andrews
Can you pay the grandkids?

00;30;21;22 - 00;30;22;23
Peter Culver
Yeah, sure.

00;30;22;25 - 00;30;24;18
Craig Andrews
Yeah. That's awesome.

00;30;24;18 - 00;30;28;13
Craig Andrews
Well, this has been fascinating. How can people reach you?

00;30;28;15 - 00;30;46;02
Peter Culver
So I would say the best way I'm kind of old fashioned. So if you want to just call me on my cell phone, I have kind of a business philosophy that I like to do that. So phone number is easy. That's (917) 697-4156.

00;30;46;02 - 00;30;46;22
Peter Culver
We have

00;30;46;22 - 00;30;57;00
Peter Culver
an intake kind of form. If you went to the URL thrive from, well, thrive beyond tax.

00;30;57;00 - 00;31;21;14
Peter Culver
That kind of key is with our philosophy just thrive beyond tax.com. You can connect with me there. One thing I'll mention is we have a lot of resources about this. If you just want to learn about it yourself. Right. We'd love to talk to anybody who might like to have us help them. But the most important thing is just people get better educated about taxes.

00;31;21;16 - 00;31;44;11
Peter Culver
And so we have several books about just all these strategies. We have a neat little e-book we wrote a little while ago, seven Tax Strategies that your CPA Never told You About. Two of them are the Augusta Rule and Pay Your kids. So if you just went to that website or emailed me, you can eat Peter at Wealth thrive.com, we'd be happy to send those to you.

00;31;44;11 - 00;31;48;20
Peter Culver
No obligation. No one's going to come knocking at your door if you order a book.

00;31;48;20 - 00;31;51;09
Peter Culver
But you might find something in there.

00;31;51;09 - 00;31;53;07
Peter Culver
That's interesting.

00;31;53;09 - 00;32;06;29
Craig Andrews
Well, that's that is an amazing resource. And I would say by it's listening, any business owner that's listening that doesn't download that, that guide doesn't get that e-book, you're throwing away money. And,

00;32;06;29 - 00;32;07;25
Craig Andrews
if you're like a lot of us.

00;32;07;25 - 00;32;29;29
Peter Culver
You and you're not. Yeah, I mean, the book is free. So you start you're starting. You're starting at zero to start with. So, and they're generally we have one longish book which is called exit Rich Beyond Money. And that's key to in to kind of this philosophy. Is there all kinds of tactics you can use to get wealthier.

00;32;30;02 - 00;32;59;08
Peter Culver
But what's the point? The point of life is not just to get wealthier. The point of life is to get wealthier. So you can have a great life that isn't just about money. And the reason it's called exit Rich beyond money is a big part of where we help clients is that are selling a business or another big asset, which is probably going to be both the biggest financial event of their lives and probably potentially the biggest tax payment they're ever going to make.

00;32;59;10 - 00;33;03;21
Peter Culver
Yeah. So we want to help or reduce one and increase the other.

00;33;03;23 - 00;33;08;08
Craig Andrews
Well, this has been great, Peter. Thanks for coming on Ladies and Legacy's pleasure.

00;33;08;10 - 00;33;11;28
Peter Culver
I enjoyed it very much.

00;33;11;28 - 00;33;38;22
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;33;38;22 - 00;33;40;17
Craig Andrews
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00;33;40;19 - 00;34;04;01
Craig Andrews
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00;34;04;03 - 00;34;12;08
Craig Andrews
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00;34;12;08 - 00;36;14;13
Craig Andrews
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