Episode #207: Leadership in Action: How Dr. Cristin Dickerson Makes Healthcare Work for Everyone

Dr. Cristin Dickerson isn’t waiting for the healthcare system to fix itself—she’s leading the charge. As founder of Green Imaging, Dr. Dickerson cuts through red tape and bloated bureaucracy to deliver affordable, high-quality imaging. In this episode, she walks through how leadership rooted in ethics, transparency, and accountability can change the industry from the inside out.

She breaks down the rising costs of care, how private equity is warping priorities, and why independent physicians matter now more than ever. Dr. Dickerson also dives into her strategic decisions, including how she scaled a national imaging network without selling out to private investors. Along the way, she shares a powerful story about seeking affordable care for her son—and why empathy drives every business choice she makes.

This episode is a crash course in practical leadership in a broken system. Dr. Dickerson’s story proves that real leaders don’t follow trends—they set new standards.

Want to learn more about Dr. Cristin Dickerson's work? Check out her website at http://www.greenimaging.net.

Connect with Dr. Cristin Dickerson on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/Cristin-dickerson-md-a1a1b013/.

Key Points with Timestamps

00:01:09 – Dr. Dickerson’s background and radiology training at MD Anderson
00:02:54 – Her leadership role at Central Park Imaging and how remote oversight works
00:04:32 – Why healthcare costs are inflated: institutional bloat vs. independent care
00:07:26 – Personal story: saving thousands by driving to Austin for her son’s MRI
00:08:41 – Breaking down the true cost difference between hospitals and imaging centers
00:11:27 – How stress and opacity fuel inflated pricing in medical systems
00:14:33 – The strategy behind offering choice in employer health plans
00:16:07 – Delayed care’s cost to both patients and employers
00:18:23 – The rise of direct primary care and why it’s a game-changer
00:23:24 – Clear comparison: concierge care vs. direct primary care
00:29:08 – The origin of her mission: ICU insights and systemic over-treatment
00:30:04 – Why she’s optimistic about fixing healthcare from the inside

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;01;09;02
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Doctor Cristin Dickerson. She is the founder and of Green Imaging. She graduated from the University of Texas Medical School at Houston, where she was elected to Alpha Omega Alpha Honor medical society. Doctor Dickerson,

00;01;09;02 - 00;01;19;26
Craig Andrews
completed her radiology residency at UT Houston, where she was a chief resident with extensive training in cancer imaging at MD Anderson.

00;01;19;26 - 00;01;24;12
Craig Andrews
Cancer Center. Now, I've invited her on as a part of,

00;01;24;12 - 00;01;47;18
Craig Andrews
a series I've been doing. One of the biggest problems that businesses face is the rising cost of health care. And it's become the second or third number line item in the budget. And Cristin's going to tell you it doesn't have to be that way. And so I know everybody wants to deliver health care for their employees.

00;01;47;21 - 00;01;56;27
Craig Andrews
I think this is worth listening to, to figure out. Maybe there's some chances to do things where you can deliver better care for less money. Cristin, welcome.

00;01;57;00 - 00;01;59;18
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.

00;01;59;20 - 00;02;12;16
Craig Andrews
You know, and the thing that was so exciting, we met on LinkedIn. And when I looked at what you were doing, I said, this looks this kind of reminds me of,

00;02;12;16 - 00;02;24;06
Craig Andrews
what experience with Central Park Imaging. And let me just come back up. I, I had to get some radiology done. And the number one carrier in central Texas is Ara.

00;02;24;09 - 00;02;41;11
Craig Andrews
The folks at the front desk are usually look like they hate their job. It takes a long time to get your radiology scheduled, and they're expensive. And one day I thought, let me see, because I have a high deductible plan and I'm paying a lot of this out of pocket. I was like, let me see if there's somebody else.

00;02;41;12 - 00;02;54;05
Craig Andrews
And I stumbled across Central Park Imaging and they were half the price with happy people. That got me scheduled faster. And then you told me you're the chief medical officer there.

00;02;54;07 - 00;02;59;27
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Correct. I'm working there with them for 7 or 8 years. Fantastic organization.

00;03;00;02 - 00;03;14;14
Craig Andrews
Wow. So and I was a little bit confused. So maybe you can help some help everybody else. What does it mean to be the chief Medical? Because you're in Houston. They're in Austin. What does it mean to be the chief medical officer there?

00;03;14;17 - 00;03;24;18
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Well, it's providing oversight of the facility, which is a radiologist. You know, the quality metrics, the things that that happen from a quality standpoint all happen online.

00;03;24;18 - 00;03;35;16
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, radiologists are reading off of a packed system, you know, from from where, wherever they read their studies, they're not necessarily in the facility space, fewer and fewer in the facility, in fact,

00;03;35;16 - 00;03;37;03
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
especially post-Covid.

00;03;37;05 - 00;03;37;25
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And,

00;03;37;25 - 00;03;54;20
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
so, you know, my radiology group is the interpreting group for Central Park Imaging. We provide the professional services, and we also provide, as we are doing that, the oversight of the quality. And, you know, making sure that, everything from an imaging standpoint is,

00;03;54;20 - 00;04;00;06
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
not only good that it's excellent, just like their customer services.

00;04;00;08 - 00;04;18;02
Craig Andrews
And the fear is, you know, I have to admit, when I first look that up, I thought I was like, is this some kind of rusty scalpel joint? Am I going to go in there and there's, like, rats running around the facility and, you know, somebody with a big, you know, lump on their shoulder, hunched over, saying the,

00;04;18;02 - 00;04;20;17
Craig Andrews
walk this way.

00;04;20;19 - 00;04;30;11
Craig Andrews
And I, I doubt that I'm the only one that believes that way. That's such a cost savings. How can it be as good?

00;04;30;13 - 00;04;32;28
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, there is actually an inverse,

00;04;32;28 - 00;04;43;23
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
relationship between cost and quality of health care and the US and this institutionalization of health care, these large organizations, whether it's hospital systems or private equity,

00;04;43;23 - 00;04;45;02
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
owning health care,

00;04;45;02 - 00;04;46;23
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
makes it all about profit.

00;04;46;23 - 00;04;55;10
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
While the remaining independent. So 70% of physicians now are employed by the hospital system.

00;04;55;12 - 00;05;00;04
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
There are a few of us out there who are still independent, still running these other practices.

00;05;00;04 - 00;05;08;27
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And, you know, we're doing that for a reason. If you're chasing the, you know, the the big money and the perks and the, you know,

00;05;08;27 - 00;05;18;00
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
big payouts from private equity, you're a different person and somebody who's trying to be out there, practice good care, and make a living doing so and so,

00;05;18;00 - 00;05;29;27
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Texas has a lot of independent doctors, and and there are a number of health plans now, and traditional health care brokers who've gone to a different method of,

00;05;29;27 - 00;05;31;11
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
counseling employers.

00;05;31;11 - 00;05;36;22
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And we've got this change system going on. It's starting to really favor the independence.

00;05;36;25 - 00;05;54;18
Craig Andrews
You know. You know, I remember movies from, I think, like the 80s and 90s where, you know, private equity was the villain. And those movies kind of passed. And we don't hear much about them, but they're starting to pop up again. I mean, I know one area they're taking over is,

00;05;54;18 - 00;06;06;00
Craig Andrews
Hvac. So if you've noticed, the prices go up, you know, in Hvac, it's because the private equity guys are going in there and they're just jacking up the prices.

00;06;06;03 - 00;06;22;20
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, and health care that that's happening. I think there's some good players out there. I think there's some who are really trying to get the excesses, because we know if you look at the graphs of what's happened with health care costs, you know, we see these skyrocketing costs. You see that doctors pay has been

00;06;22;20 - 00;06;24;19
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
this for the past 20 years.

00;06;24;26 - 00;06;45;10
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Well, it hospital administrators, but the volume and the pay have done this. And so there's a lot of waste and a lot of redundancy. And there's some of that is caused by too much bureaucracy and health care, but some of them is just bloat. And so I think where private equity can go in and get rid of the bloat, and that's usually physician run company,

00;06;45;10 - 00;06;52;12
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
you know, or at least physician founded companies that have found the ways to, to help private equity get rid of that bloat.

00;06;52;12 - 00;06;54;16
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Those companies are doing really well.

00;06;54;16 - 00;06;58;26
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
It's the ones that are just consolidating practices and trying to make money off of them.

00;06;58;26 - 00;07;04;23
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Where patient care immediately deteriorates after acquisitions.

00;07;04;26 - 00;07;09;28
Craig Andrews
I know one of those administrators, and he's a snappy dresser.

00;07;10;00 - 00;07;13;29
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
They also have really nice cars to.

00;07;14;02 - 00;07;19;02
Craig Andrews
Now you're telling me some story about,

00;07;19;02 - 00;07;26;10
Craig Andrews
you drove to Austin. You live in Houston, you drove to Austin because you were able to save a little bit of money.

00;07;26;12 - 00;07;33;28
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Yeah, I have a special needs son. I have a son who has Angelman syndrome, and he needed A3T brain MRI, and,

00;07;33;28 - 00;07;46;08
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
at that, central Park says no longer A3T machine because actually there's word, Oh, they have a great 1.5 Tesla magnet. But at that point in time they had a three MRI machine and we priced,

00;07;46;08 - 00;07;51;17
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
this MRI at Texas Children's and it was going to be about $13,000.

00;07;51;20 - 00;07;53;17
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
We drove to Austin,

00;07;53;17 - 00;08;10;24
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
at Central Park, where they were very kind to my son, and he did not need sedation to get the exam. They got him through it without sedation. And I think we paid in a maybe $600. I forgotten what their cash rate is. It hasn't told me since that.

00;08;10;27 - 00;08;16;01
Craig Andrews
What what what? Wait a minute. How much? How much was. How much was children's month?

00;08;16;06 - 00;08;28;14
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
It may not even be that much. I don't remember what their price or their pricing for an MRI without it is somewhere $600 or less. So somewhere in that range. Wow.

00;08;28;16 - 00;08;31;06
Craig Andrews
I mean, that's a huge difference.

00;08;31;09 - 00;08;37;25
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Same machine, neuro radiologist, same training. Read the exam.

00;08;37;28 - 00;08;41;24
Craig Andrews
How does that happen?

00;08;41;26 - 00;08;58;02
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Bloat in the traditional system, really. And and also, you know, I would say hospitals to be fair hospitals are open 24 seven imaging centers are not. Hospitals have to staff, you know, round the clock. They have to provide,

00;08;58;02 - 00;09;05;03
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
care for patients for all of that later. There are, you know, there are more costs. It's just like, I'm not always my company.

00;09;05;03 - 00;09;26;28
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Green imaging is not always as cheap as going directly to an independent imaging center, because I have additional costs. I'm doing claims data assessments for employers. I'm basically subsidizing their claims, you know, in the 30 to 60 days that it takes them to pay me. So I have different expenses that, you know, and I think I think some of it is just the difference in expenses.

00;09;27;05 - 00;09;31;00
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
But I think most of it's administrative bloat.

00;09;31;02 - 00;09;43;10
Craig Andrews
You know, one of the things that I've looked at when I've seen it, so I'm on a high deductible plan, but I look at, you know, the deductibles are the current plans out there. They're kind of the same.

00;09;43;10 - 00;09;52;09
Craig Andrews
But I, you know, years ago I had, I've had chronic problems with lesions, which is like a little lump that pops up in your eyelid.

00;09;52;09 - 00;09;56;01
Craig Andrews
And a lot of times, you know, usually the old resolve,

00;09;56;01 - 00;10;00;03
Craig Andrews
but I have one that just won't resolve. And I started calling around to get,

00;10;00;03 - 00;10;12;13
Craig Andrews
prices. And the first thing I noticed was everybody, when they'd come in for an evaluation before they would treat it, I'm like, come on, it's a Bayesian. When you see it, you're going to say, hey, you guys lazy and and lay back.

00;10;12;13 - 00;10;34;22
Craig Andrews
We're going to lance that. And everybody wants to have at least one meeting. And and the prices first place I called that was going to be about $350. And I called another place and it got even more complicated. And they didn't tell me the price, but my feeling was about 800. And finally I found somebody. It would knock everything out in a single visit.

00;10;34;24 - 00;10;37;08
Craig Andrews
And I spent 30 minutes with a nurse,

00;10;37;08 - 00;10;58;24
Craig Andrews
45 minutes with a surgeon, plus a follow up visit with a surgeon for like $240. And it was a direct it's what you were talking about. So direct care. And the reason I was bringing that up is when we shop for most things in life, we go around, we call a few people like like I did.

00;10;58;26 - 00;11;02;13
Craig Andrews
I got excellent service. It was right next to,

00;11;02;13 - 00;11;08;25
Craig Andrews
the hospital in Lakeway, which is nice hospital. And, you know, there were no rusty scalpels laying around.

00;11;08;25 - 00;11;11;01
Craig Andrews
And the people were nice and I

00;11;11;01 - 00;11;18;29
Craig Andrews
and they took care of it. And my I, I'm actually I feel like my eyes have been better shape than before that. And,

00;11;18;29 - 00;11;27;03
Craig Andrews
but we shop for most of our purchases, we shop and we ask questions.

00;11;27;06 - 00;11;34;01
Craig Andrews
But when it comes to medical, we've we've it seems like we've broken that step.

00;11;34;03 - 00;11;56;24
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Now, I think, you know, I always teach my team that I remind my team let's because this isn't something that's taught people entering the health care system for anything, even a screening mammogram, are under stress. That is a stressful situation. You know what I always say? What's where's the most expensive place to get an MRI? It's down the hall from your doctor at the hospital.

00;11;56;27 - 00;12;11;09
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And then, you know, where is the you know, where's the highest? But what's the best day of the year? It's when you've had your get your report from your negative mammogram, you know, I mean, but there's a lot of stress associated with even something as benign as that.

00;12;11;09 - 00;12;17;16
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
So I just remind my concierge staff that people you're dealing with are on heightened stress.

00;12;17;19 - 00;12;28;26
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
The minute they contact you, something is going on in their lives that they're contacting in. And, you know, to be aware of that. And I think it's that stress that people take advantage of.

00;12;28;26 - 00;12;31;05
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
In not and, you know, not

00;12;31;05 - 00;12;35;27
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
giving patients pricing and not leading them to the best opportunity.

00;12;35;27 - 00;12;39;15
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
If they don't ask, you know.

00;12;39;17 - 00;12;55;04
Craig Andrews
I'll say this, that one clinic that figured was around 800, and it's one of the most prominent clinics here in Austin. My impression getting off the phone with them was they've built an insurance extraction machine like.

00;12;55;06 - 00;12;58;13
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
That that's that's the game. And, you know, it's,

00;12;58;13 - 00;13;11;14
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
it's meant to be this way. People are the people who are extracting the most money from health care, have never see a patient.

00;13;11;16 - 00;13;20;06
Craig Andrews
So, you know, I guess here's my question. How, you know, so obviously,

00;13;20;06 - 00;13;41;08
Craig Andrews
employers, they put together plans, and one of the things they run into is, you know, people are real funny about health care and it's why, you know, when President Obama went around selling Obamacare, he had to drill home. If you like your doctor, you keep your doctor.

00;13;41;08 - 00;13;46;18
Craig Andrews
If you like your plan, you keep your plan later. Rated as lie of the year by PolitiFact. But,

00;13;46;18 - 00;14;05;01
Craig Andrews
but he he knew he had to say that. And so that's something that employers are running into. People have their favorite doctors. They have their their plans. And when all of a sudden they hear, hey, we're going to switch off this and we're going to go to this other plan and it's going to be much cheaper and you're going to like it.

00;14;05;07 - 00;14;07;17
Craig Andrews
People get scared.

00;14;07;20 - 00;14;33;27
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
They do. But that and that's why you have to give them a choice. And you know, the the great advisers like Matt work that you discussed and Josh Butler, these guys are giving patients choices. They are giving them choices that make a lot of sense. So, you know, I just I led a panel at a recent benefits conference and I asked some of these top brokers in the country, I said, you know, what's your first step when you work with a new employer?

00;14;33;27 - 00;14;50;23
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
What's the first thing you're going to do? And I didn't set this up this way. And actually two of the three said green imaging. And you know why that is? Because nobody has a favorite radiologist. I wish they did and I wish I were that person. But nobody has a favorite radiologist, so it makes it a really easy,

00;14;50;23 - 00;14;51;13
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
thing to do.

00;14;51;13 - 00;15;09;00
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And so when when these advisors are putting green imaging in alongside their Blue Cross Blue Shield plan, they're saying, okay, you can use green, Blue Cross Blue Shield, you can go down the hall of the hospital and go have that MRI. Now you're going to be subject to your $3,000 deductible or whatever that is. And believe me, the cost of those MRI is have gone up.

00;15;09;03 - 00;15;29;29
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You may hit that deductible with that one study, or you can go to brain imaging. And if you go to green imaging it's zero out of pocket. And when they do that the employer is able to fund the exam for the patient. The patient is getting the study they need. 68% of Texans are delaying care or not getting care because they can't afford it right now.

00;15;30;01 - 00;15;37;02
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
So the member is able to get the service and the employer still saves 40% on the exam. How is that not a no brainer?

00;15;37;04 - 00;15;45;11
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah yeah. And and the cost I mean you probably know these numbers better than I, but the,

00;15;45;11 - 00;15;58;23
Craig Andrews
you know, cancer rates went way high after Covid because people had a bunch of it and they quit going to their doctors. There was a bunch of undiagnosed. So not getting things diagnosed is is bad.

00;15;58;25 - 00;16;07;10
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And it's expensive for employers. Not only the cost of like a stage one to stage two breast cancer can be, you know, hundreds of thousands

00;16;07;10 - 00;16;24;21
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
of dollars difference in the treatment. They're also losing that employer for an employee for a longer period of time. And you know that that, you know, it may be a young mother who's losing time away from her kids and then the stress on the family, the difference in treating a stage one and a stage 2 or 3 or worse.

00;16;24;21 - 00;16;30;22
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Breast cancer is dramatically different in lots of different costs, not just monetary.

00;16;30;24 - 00;16;39;21
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So green imaging has, if I understand correctly, you have a network across the country.

00;16;39;23 - 00;16;44;00
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Programs that work with over 5000 facilities nationally in 50 states.

00;16;44;02 - 00;16;51;01
Craig Andrews
Oh, wow. Wow. Are you more concentrated here in Texas than elsewhere?

00;16;51;04 - 00;16;54;02
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
We are Texas and Florida. We're running neck and neck right now.

00;16;54;02 - 00;17;01;06
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
I, I, I, I'm always pulling for Texas, but Florida is as far as, as well.

00;17;01;08 - 00;17;11;14
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and here's a question that I wrestle with and, and it's tough. You know, if I look back to me shopping around for that,

00;17;11;14 - 00;17;25;09
Craig Andrews
chelation removal, I was an active shopper in my health care. And as a result, I got great service at a lower price. And I think compared to the I think the most expensive one,

00;17;25;09 - 00;17;26;20
Craig Andrews
they just they were a hassle.

00;17;26;20 - 00;17;55;19
Craig Andrews
Just talking to them was tense. And we've kind of removed the we've removed the shopping, the competitive shopping experience from the purchase of health care. Is that something we should look at introducing? How do and I guess my thought my thought is that's one mechanism that brings down the cost to health care. Is that the only mechanism? And if it is, how do we do more of that?

00;17;55;19 - 00;18;00;15
Craig Andrews
Or there are other mechanisms that you can see that can help us reverse this curve.

00;18;00;17 - 00;18;05;09
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Yeah. And that that's a really you know, there are only a few people who can actually pronounce choices.

00;18;05;09 - 00;18;08;29
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
So not everybody can go shop for their own health care.

00;18;08;29 - 00;18;23;06
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
For whatever reason, we're not, you know, we're not scientific thinkers. A lot of times, again, it's health care stress. Again, they're cultural differences. So there's an emerging model. And it's really, I think, the fastest growing change in health care.

00;18;23;06 - 00;18;45;15
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And it's called direct primary care. And it's subscription based primary care. And through that model you actually get somebody who can do that shopping for you, who is a physician. And I think that really answers that, you know, if you're sick with Covid, you're not going to go call around for hospital, you know? Right. You know, you need an advocate.

00;18;45;15 - 00;18;49;15
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And that's what direct primary care does. So for a flat fee,

00;18;49;15 - 00;18;54;02
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
you know, I'm seeing pricing ranging from 75 to $200 a month.

00;18;54;02 - 00;18;57;27
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
It depends on the market. I think there's some affordable options in Austin.

00;18;57;27 - 00;19;05;07
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And you can basically have your own Marcus Welby, and it's a doctor. You have access to 24 seven.

00;19;05;07 - 00;19;08;12
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You have an in person access for, you know, at least an annual.

00;19;08;17 - 00;19;11;15
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
I mean, well, they want to see you whatever you want to be seen,

00;19;11;15 - 00;19;26;22
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
in person, and you have telehealth access to that person. They'll do telehealth consults. So they're actually involved when you go see a specialist and they understand that the specialist is telling you and they make sure the specialist understands the important parts of the,

00;19;26;22 - 00;19;29;17
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
the workup that they've already performed.

00;19;29;22 - 00;19;39;06
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
They can talk to the ER doctor if you end up in the air and tell them, oh, now he's got a history of this, you know, he's got an implant. You can't do that MRI, right? Yeah.

00;19;39;06 - 00;19;49;13
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
There are things like that that go on where we get an advocate and the interesting thing about that is they're ethically aligned with the member.

00;19;49;13 - 00;20;10;26
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And in that setting where employers are putting this in place, they're ethically aligned with the employer. They want to get you healthy, that they're going to do better financially if they never have to see you. If you're dealing with your hypertension, if you're dealing with losing weight, if you're dealing with all those things and they don't have to spend time with you, they're actually making more money off that subscription.

00;20;10;28 - 00;20;15;28
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
But then when you need them, they're there. And I just think it's a tremendous model. And,

00;20;15;28 - 00;20;22;20
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
my company gets inquiries, several inquiries a week from new DPC doctors looking to work with us.

00;20;22;20 - 00;20;31;07
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Which to me is just, I mean, because they they don't all know about us, but it's tremendously heartening to see that many doctors converting to that model.

00;20;31;12 - 00;20;50;00
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Whereas the old model for primary care is that you go get some test done and they only have 20 minutes with you, and so they're going to do more tests than talking to you, because that's going to get them more of a result. And then in order to pay for that, they've got to churn you back to get results and then to deal with whatever they found.

00;20;50;00 - 00;20;55;23
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
They've got to see you another time to come up with a treatment plan. They churn patients,

00;20;55;23 - 00;21;09;16
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
and very shortly, you know, visit times. Whereas again, the DPC doctor, their incentive is to spend time with you, find out what your problems are and help you not only have better health care, but also save money.

00;21;09;18 - 00;21;31;07
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And just to kind of rehash so because I think for a lot of people, there's some confusion around what direct primary care is. That's a monthly subscription. Basically, you're paying a monthly subscription. And as I understand it, you basically get unlimited visits and you get an annual physical for that.

00;21;31;09 - 00;21;37;05
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
All right. And sometimes labs or at least low cost, you know, labs and,

00;21;37;05 - 00;21;53;12
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
most of them have solutions in place for the specialists from the imaging for, you know, for the other things you're going to need. And traditional health care. Some even have hospital contracts where you know that they can guarantee you that if you go to this facility, it's going to be this percentage of Medicare maybe, or something like that.

00;21;53;12 - 00;21;54;28
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
So it's really,

00;21;54;28 - 00;21;58;23
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
it it is it is to me a much more ethically and,

00;21;58;23 - 00;22;00;29
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
lot ethically aligned and,

00;22;00;29 - 00;22;08;16
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
true health care, not just health care coverage, because there's a I mean, there's two things.

00;22;08;19 - 00;22;15;00
Craig Andrews
Now, when you're meeting, when you go on one of these plans, are you seeing the doctor or are you seeing their pay?

00;22;15;02 - 00;22;21;10
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
It depends. Some of them do. And then that's a good question. If you're interested in one of these practices.

00;22;21;10 - 00;22;22;27
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
That's a good question to ask.

00;22;22;27 - 00;22;30;08
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, I if a, if a PA or nurse practitioner is overseeing is overseen by a physician,

00;22;30;08 - 00;22;38;08
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
and I like that person, I'm usually okay with that for primary care. Now, if I have a more complex issue, I want to see an MP for sure.

00;22;38;11 - 00;22;45;06
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
But, you know, I think that's a really good question. Usually it will be an M.D. that see somebody upfront. But there are,

00;22;45;06 - 00;22;50;15
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
you know, there is as many different models of this as there are DPC doctors. So there's

00;22;50;15 - 00;23;05;13
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
there are always variations on this. And I think the thing that confuses people a lot of times is the difference between this and concierge and, and concierge, you're paying that monthly fee, but they're also charging your insurance, so you're actually paying them for better access to that.

00;23;05;16 - 00;23;08;09
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
With DPC, it's all in.

00;23;08;12 - 00;23;24;26
Craig Andrews
That is the best explanation. I've asked the question so many times what the difference is between concierge and direct primary care have always walked away confused. You've just given the best answer I've ever heard to that question. So we say it again. What's the difference between concierge and direct primary care?

00;23;24;28 - 00;23;47;07
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Right? With direct primary care, you're paying for your your health care, for the health care that they provide with concierge. You're you're paying for better access to health care. They're still going to charge you for the health care they're providing. They're going to charge your insurance. Are you for the additional care. And so there's a big difference in what's included in that.

00;23;47;10 - 00;23;59;11
Craig Andrews
Wow, wow. Well, and one of the reasons I was asking about the difference between, you know, do you see a doctor or you see the PA and I would agree with you, you know, for most things,

00;23;59;11 - 00;24;06;07
Craig Andrews
the PA is great. I ran into a situation where, you know, about one year after I came

00;24;06;07 - 00;24;08;10
Craig Andrews
off the ventilator, I,

00;24;08;10 - 00;24;16;25
Craig Andrews
I had my creatinine was elevated and my PA kept giving me a bad diagnosis.

00;24;16;25 - 00;24;31;27
Craig Andrews
I asked her, I said do something called Camp Gladiator. Am hypoxic. You know, at Camp Gladiator, or is there any chance that's impacting it? And she's like, no, no, no, keep doing it. I went back three times and one time I even went back with a study that showed how,

00;24;31;27 - 00;24;33;15
Craig Andrews
and apologies to the audience,

00;24;33;15 - 00;24;34;06
Craig Andrews
how,

00;24;34;06 - 00;24;35;25
Craig Andrews
ischemia raises,

00;24;35;25 - 00;24;36;26
Craig Andrews
create and levels.

00;24;36;27 - 00;24;41;27
Craig Andrews
And I said, if ischemia will always create and then what? And hypoxia.

00;24;41;27 - 00;24;52;01
Craig Andrews
Raise and she's like, no, keep going to camp Gladiator I eventually self-diagnosed quit going to camp Gladiator went back for another blood test in my create and dropped.

00;24;52;03 - 00;25;03;01
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Yeah. And, you know, that's that's where that. I mean, a physician should be overseeing the labs. They should be overseeing the care of the patient, and that's obvious. You know, and and I think when it's well done,

00;25;03;01 - 00;25;03;25
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
the

00;25;03;25 - 00;25;10;25
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
a good P.A. or nurse practitioner is coordinating with, you know, with an MD, and there's a huge difference in training.

00;25;10;28 - 00;25;17;14
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And, you know, I think it's intellectual. You know, it's a matter of intellectual curiosity and intellectual honesty.

00;25;17;14 - 00;25;18;15
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
As to if,

00;25;18;15 - 00;25;38;00
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
you know, they they really are doing it properly. And so, you know, I think it's fair enough to ask for if you are looking at the IPC practices, ask for some references, ask for some, you know, family, you know, somebody your age who's using them and is adequate, you know, and, and you know, and then read the Google reviews.

00;25;38;00 - 00;25;42;28
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Google reviews can be quite enlightening, you know.

00;25;43;00 - 00;26;08;05
Craig Andrews
Well and and obviously I mean I, I'm a little bit more maybe a little bit more knowledgeable, a little bit more active in understanding. Right. My own care. But you know, we have this wonderful thing called AI that, not that it's perfect, but boy, it can, it can pull up some answers. And my, my recommendation is you should always be a better informed patient.

00;26;08;08 - 00;26;14;17
Craig Andrews
You need to advocate for yourself. You know, you need to advocate for yourself and ask tough questions.

00;26;14;19 - 00;26;16;24
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
That's true. Be careful of bias, then.

00;26;16;24 - 00;26;17;29
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, a lot of people,

00;26;17;29 - 00;26;35;18
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
have a lot of denial about what's going on in their body, and they want to find answers and they want to find the good answers and not the hard answers. And so you've got to be really that that's why we have positions as to, you know, that, you know, especially doctors.

00;26;35;18 - 00;26;40;12
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Why do we need doctors? We're doctors when we need somebody to give us a fresh perspective, give us a

00;26;40;12 - 00;26;46;01
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
perspective who doesn't have the biases and the denial and that we have about our own care.

00;26;46;04 - 00;26;49;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Wow.

00;26;53;12 - 00;26;57;20
Craig Andrews
So more interested in your take on that. So I've, I've seen a,

00;26;57;20 - 00;27;27;24
Craig Andrews
there's some economists there saying in 20, 30, 70% of tax revenue is going to go to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and service on the debt. That's before you fund defense and the other parts of government as well. And I told you earlier, I have a feeling that things are that's that's going to be a day of reckoning for health care, especially with the current trajectory that the cost of it's on.

00;27;27;26 - 00;27;34;29
Craig Andrews
What do you think's going to play out in the long run? What do you think health care is going to look like 20 years from now?

00;27;35;02 - 00;27;43;05
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
If things continue to go well in the self-funded health care space, in the space where matter and cash, grandma and I are working,

00;27;43;05 - 00;27;57;06
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
it could serve as a model. The hope. Is it cancer? You know, it is not as bureaucratic. It's easier to be creative in that space and do things differently. And we're starting to see, you know, where the VA wants to,

00;27;57;06 - 00;28;00;10
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
do some pilots for direct primary care.

00;28;00;12 - 00;28;16;08
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, the government's base is starting to take notice of some of the things that are happening and in the self-funded space. And I think really, if you look at the people who really need direct primary care, there are veterans. They are elderly people who are on polypharmacy.

00;28;16;08 - 00;28;20;16
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
They're the, you know, people like my son with disabilities.

00;28;20;18 - 00;28;24;06
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, who interface the healthcare system frequently.

00;28;24;06 - 00;28;27;06
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Those are the people who most need that

00;28;27;06 - 00;28;37;12
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
and whether that needs to be a physician or whether that can be a pay more affordably. But people need somebody who is really,

00;28;37;12 - 00;28;44;27
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Sherpa being the Sherpa to their medical care and overseeing that and making sure that they're not over treated.

00;28;44;29 - 00;28;57;26
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, the, the, the first direct primary care physician, and I'm that was eccentric royal out of Houston. He has first primary career and he was a Yale trained pulmonary intensivist. He was in that pulmonary ICU with the ventilators and,

00;28;57;26 - 00;29;08;26
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
and, you know, he he looked around at what he was doing and, you know, the time he was missing from his family and said 90% of the people in this ICU do not need to be here.

00;29;08;28 - 00;29;17;13
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
They either didn't have good primary care or they didn't have end of life counseling. And that's where he started exploring models that were happening,

00;29;17;13 - 00;29;28;18
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
elsewhere and found the direct primary care model. And I think if you look at it that way, think about how many gazillion dollars were spending people on ventilators who don't need to be there.

00;29;28;20 - 00;29;39;01
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And if we just took care of them in the beginning and they had the right tools at their fingertips, they would be there. I think that's really the answer. And I'm an optimist.

00;29;39;01 - 00;29;46;00
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
I've been doing this for ten years. I started doing this before there was a movement because I felt like it was the right way to practice medicine.

00;29;46;02 - 00;29;59;14
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
But I, I've seen, you know, now I go to these conferences and they're thousands of, you know, hundreds of brokers that are doing it right now and hundreds of input, thousands of employers are changing their health plans.

00;29;59;14 - 00;30;04;09
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
So I'm optimistic that 20 years we can we can change things.

00;30;04;11 - 00;30;12;22
Craig Andrews
Wow. Well, I really appreciate what you're doing. I've I've sampled your work. It's wonderful. And,

00;30;12;22 - 00;30;15;07
Craig Andrews
so a couple questions as well.

00;30;15;07 - 00;30;19;05
Craig Andrews
For somebody that says, you know what, I want cheaper imaging,

00;30;19;05 - 00;30;25;24
Craig Andrews
with happier customer service. How do they find you?

00;30;25;26 - 00;30;33;17
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Brain imaging dot net. Remember, income will take you to Canada. Brain imaging dot net. We'll take you to the US.

00;30;33;20 - 00;30;39;07
Craig Andrews
All right. And and for somebody else that wants to connect with you, what's the best way to connect.

00;30;39;10 - 00;30;42;05
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
With me personally or might happening.

00;30;42;07 - 00;30;43;11
Craig Andrews
Your choice.

00;30;43;14 - 00;30;44;03
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Okay.

00;30;44;03 - 00;30;51;22
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Best way to connect. You know, our our company info at Brain imaging dot net is if you're an email or if you want to give us a call.

00;30;51;22 - 00;30;54;09
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, I, I'm, I'm happy to educate.

00;30;54;09 - 00;31;00;18
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
You know, if you have more employees, employers, people who want to hear about this, I'm always happy to speak.

00;31;00;20 - 00;31;10;00
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
And info at Brain Imaging dot net is a great email to contact us. Phone number 713524 9190. Real people will answer the phone.

00;31;10;02 - 00;31;18;20
Craig Andrews
That's great. Well, Doctor Cristin Dickerson, thank you for being on Layers and Legacies. I love what you're doing. I do believe you're the future. And,

00;31;18;20 - 00;31;20;18
Craig Andrews
appreciate all that you've been doing.

00;31;20;20 - 00;31;25;24
Dr. Cristin Dickerson
Well, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. And great question. That was fun.

00;31;25;24 - 00;31;52;18
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;31;52;18 - 00;31;54;13
Craig Andrews
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00;31;54;15 - 00;32;17;27
Craig Andrews
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00;32;17;29 - 00;32;26;04
Craig Andrews
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00;32;26;04 - 00;34;28;09
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.