Michelle Griffin joins Craig Andrews to deliver a sharp message for leaders flying under the radar—visibility is not vanity, it's your responsibility. As founder of Brand Leaders and creator of the “Own Your Lane” framework, Michelle helps professionals become the go-to voice in their space. In this episode, she breaks down the four key steps of her method: Launch Your Vision, Articulate Your Difference, Navigate Your Brand, and Elevate Your Authority.

She argues that talent alone doesn’t get you noticed—strategic visibility does. Michelle challenges leaders to define their purpose, clarify their niche, and own a positioning that sets them apart. Her framework moves from internal clarity to external credibility, enabling leaders to drive impact, attract opportunities, and grow their authority. She also dismantles the myth that branding is only for big-budget companies. Her message is clear: if you’re not telling your story, someone else is—or worse, no one is.

Want to learn more about Michelle Griffin's work? Check out her website at https://michellebgriffin.com/.

Connect with Michelle Griffin on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellebgriffin/.

Key Points & Timestamps:

• 00:51 – Introduction to Michelle Griffin and her Own Your Lane framework
  
  

• 03:15 – Why talent alone won’t make you visible

• 04:23 – Visibility is not vanity—it’s value

• 05:01 – Branding starts with a plan, not a logo

• 07:14 – Michelle breaks down her four-part “Own Your Lane” process

• 08:31 – Brand presence: Aligning what people see with who you are

• 09:55 – Authority comes from proof: PR, speaking, visibility

• 14:00 – Differentiation isn’t saying “we’re different”—it’s showing it

• 20:43 – Emotional branding: Why feelings drive loyalty

• 24:00 – Protecting brand consistency across every touchpoint

• 30:29 – Elevating authority through storytelling and speaking

• 36:59 – Final thoughts: Helping others is what leadership is about

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;01;22;17
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Michelle Griffin. She is the founder of Brand Leaders. She helps subject matter experts own their message, build their platform and become the go to voice in their field. She has her own signature framework called own Your Lane, and she guides leaders into positioning their brands, growing trusted LinkedIn presence, and developing visibility strategies that lead to speaking, media and thought leadership opportunities.

00;01;22;19 - 00;01;30;27
Craig Andrews
I can't imagine a business that does not need what Michelle brings. Michelle, welcome.

00;01;30;29 - 00;01;36;05
Michelle Griffin
It is a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much, Craig, for having me on the show.

00;01;36;07 - 00;01;37;26
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So,

00;01;37;26 - 00;01;39;26
Craig Andrews
anyway, we met,

00;01;39;26 - 00;01;41;09
Craig Andrews
you know, I think we kind of met through,

00;01;41;09 - 00;01;46;01
Craig Andrews
Matt Zahn, and, I mean, Matt's such an amazing guy. And,

00;01;46;01 - 00;01;51;27
Craig Andrews
and so I always, always love the people that Matt hangs around with. And so I've been looking forward to,

00;01;51;27 - 00;01;54;14
Craig Andrews
having you on the show. So,

00;01;54;14 - 00;02;01;24
Craig Andrews
you know, I what do you do in so many ways is a little bit of a mystery to me.

00;02;01;25 - 00;02;15;08
Craig Andrews
I mean, I get the concepts, but there's a certain something that's just. It's hard for me to understand. I mean, I, I look at some people,

00;02;15;08 - 00;02;32;10
Craig Andrews
that, you know, they go off, they, they become a, a big brand. Everybody knows them. And they're not necessarily the best. They're just really good at promoting themselves. And I'm not saying they're bad, but there's a lot of talented people in the world.

00;02;32;12 - 00;02;36;10
Craig Andrews
I mean, and let me just kind of tie in might, you know, where I live. I live in Austin.

00;02;36;10 - 00;02;49;02
Craig Andrews
We have amazing musicians here. And the nice thing about, you know, listening music and Austin's, you can hear you can hear a quality of music that normally you'd have to go pay hundreds of dollars to hear at a concert.

00;02;49;04 - 00;03;03;14
Craig Andrews
And the difference is the guys here, for whatever reason, are not an, you know, nationally known band, but they're just as good. And I feel like there's a lot of businesses and a lot of business owners where,

00;03;03;14 - 00;03;12;24
Craig Andrews
the owner is there, they're talented, there's just as talented as many people that have a much bigger presence, but they don't have the presence.

00;03;12;27 - 00;03;14;17
Craig Andrews
Why is that?

00;03;14;20 - 00;03;36;20
Michelle Griffin
Well, you bring up a good point, and it doesn't matter for in B2B or consumer side or musicians, we can't go by our talent alone. It's sad, but true. You know, with 8 billion people in the world, no one knows this unless we put ourselves out there and get visible with a plan and a presence. And dare I say, I have a purpose.

00;03;36;20 - 00;03;40;26
Michelle Griffin
I'm very driven by that. No one's just going to know us, so

00;03;40;26 - 00;03;57;10
Michelle Griffin
I like to take it. And especially from the Ted talk I gave at my alma mater, FSU, two months ago, was that we all have gifts, talents, business expertise, whatever that needs to be out there. And if people push back on that, it's not about you.

00;03;57;12 - 00;04;23;01
Michelle Griffin
It's of you. But you have absolutely something that someone can benefit from these Austin musicians. When you stay hidden, you're hiding your gifts to the world to impact more people. You know, drive that bottom line, whatever it is. So I think the first part of my work is that I get people comfortable with that. And trust me, I know because I have a background, a master's in PR, so used to having others spotlight and tell their stories.

00;04;23;04 - 00;04;45;21
Michelle Griffin
And I know firsthand it's hard. But when you flip that switch, Craig, you're going to get out there. You're going to be visible. And I like to say visibility is not vanity. Visibility is being valuable. The opportunities come to you. The door's open. The bottom line grows and you feel fulfilled in business and life. So that's why what I do is so nebulous and intangible.

00;04;45;21 - 00;04;52;11
Michelle Griffin
But the absolute results are what everyone wants and needs, right?

00;04;52;13 - 00;05;01;21
Craig Andrews
So what what do you do. I mean what should people do. What do businesses do if they want to get their brand out there.

00;05;01;27 - 00;05;24;23
Michelle Griffin
Yeah. Well you know it starts you know you and I met on LinkedIn and that's where as soon as I left my role of many years and smack dab and the pandemic, we all got on LinkedIn, right? Everyone's like, build a brand, and it's nauseating. It's ad nauseum build a brand, get visible. But you know what I found in working with clients businesses from college students to CEOs, company leaders, you can't just jump.

00;05;24;25 - 00;05;46;01
Michelle Griffin
You gotta have a plan. And so my entire work that I do is how people have that entire plan, visibility plan, the foundational brand alignment brands nebulous I get it. Look, I struggle with it too. When I go to things, people like, what do you do? I branding no one has a branding is what they know when they know when they like something and they know when they don't.

00;05;46;01 - 00;06;07;02
Michelle Griffin
And that's the vibe and perception. It's intangible, but it's this energy we need in business, in life. So what I do is I help my clients from advising, speaking and workshops get that absolute here's who I am and we'll put it. Let's put in some tangible things. I know who I am, I know how to talk about who I am.

00;06;07;04 - 00;06;30;09
Michelle Griffin
I'm known for something so that people remember me, refer me, recommend me, choose me, hire me. Pay me. These are the things I. When you're known and you're known for something and specific. And that's what I help my clients do. People buy into that and they want more of it. So that's what I do. It's this intangible connection point, but we can't see it.

00;06;30;09 - 00;06;46;00
Michelle Griffin
It's not like I'm trading something tangible, but I'm helping you absolutely get foundational ready so that you can do all those wonderful things. And that's a beautiful thing in business, in life. And that's why I love I love, absolutely love what I do.

00;06;46;03 - 00;06;51;08
Craig Andrews
So what would you say are kind of the essential ingredients to pulling it off.

00;06;51;10 - 00;07;15;08
Michelle Griffin
Well I can just share my thing because I saw there was a lot of what I call fluffy branding. People just go do this and there's no basis. There's nothing that I want to relate to, you know, and resonate with. And that's what a brand is. So I went and I years ago, before I even started my job, I would speak and do things and I created a seven step framework and, and the spirit of life and too much content and ChatGPT.

00;07;15;12 - 00;07;29;03
Michelle Griffin
I knew we need simple and we need easy. So last year when I was writing Own Your Lane, I created the four steps. I brought it down to four. I'll tell you real quick, here's a good foundation if you guys can nail this. Anyone listening watching,

00;07;29;03 - 00;07;34;06
Michelle Griffin
this is the foundation I teach Sergeant Elle, launch her vision, and this is your purpose.

00;07;34;06 - 00;07;50;22
Michelle Griffin
Why are you in business? Right? Business solves problems. But what is that professional purpose is going to keep you out there, right? And I know we all have a story around it too. So a lot of that's engrained your guiding principles like get all that set up. And also let's get some numbers and data. Where do we want to go?

00;07;50;22 - 00;08;11;25
Michelle Griffin
What do we want to do if we don't know that. Where are we going. Right. So it's very data driven and purpose driven. And then we're going to aim articulate your difference. This is your positioning. How do you show up in the minds and the market of the ideal customers. So we want to position you first. That was a big disconnect.

00;08;11;25 - 00;08;31;01
Michelle Griffin
I saw a lot of people just start with the branding, even the visuals and all the stuff. That makes no sense unless you back up, get your positioning straight in the market, right? So I helped them carve out how they show up and so that the right people associate with them. And that's probably the my favorite step. And then we go into,

00;08;31;01 - 00;08;34;19
Michelle Griffin
the third step is navigate your brand, which is your presence.

00;08;34;19 - 00;08;55;13
Michelle Griffin
This is the stuff people see. You communicate and bring that brand to life online, offline, especially in LinkedIn. So everything you see, every touchpoint is absolutely aligned. And that could be we could get into that's where a lot of the marketing comes out to. We do that and then I'm keeping this real high level and quick. And then there's E and that is your proof.

00;08;55;15 - 00;09;12;14
Michelle Griffin
This is your elevating your authority. There's a lot of people who can say they do things. Craig, give me the proof. Give me the receipts. I really work with my clients, specially with my masters in PR. And I bring this end to help personal PR, right, with leaders in teams and experts. And

00;09;12;14 - 00;09;18;07
Michelle Griffin
we get them to speak or guest on podcast like yours or speak on panels.

00;09;18;07 - 00;09;41;18
Michelle Griffin
And do you thought leadership things to really elevate and get those social credibility proof right. And so when you have this beautiful foundation, the right people, the right things come to you. And in turn, the people I teach to do this and empower and train and equip, they're like, oh, I'm so clear. I'm clear on who I am inside out.

00;09;41;18 - 00;09;51;21
Michelle Griffin
I'm confident I can get out there. I'm competitively advantaged. It's just a ripple effect. They're sharing the T's and it's out there, you know?

00;09;51;29 - 00;09;55;24
Craig Andrews
So, when I think about the first one, what's your purpose?

00;09;57;05 - 00;10;00;24
Craig Andrews
That reminds me of Simon Sinek talk start with y you.

00;10;00;24 - 00;10;08;21
Michelle Griffin
Yeah. Yeah. But it's for people. It's for people his his company. But yeah it's the inner inner stuff we need.

00;10;08;24 - 00;10;19;02
Craig Andrews
Well and the thing that strikes me about that is, you know, your purpose isn't, you know, like, for me, my purpose shouldn't be, you know, hey, I just do marketing.

00;10;19;04 - 00;10;20;08
Michelle Griffin
Yeah.

00;10;20;11 - 00;10;30;12
Craig Andrews
It should be, if I'm understanding you mentioned something long term. It should be. I'm trying to change the world in this way. Is that right?

00;10;30;15 - 00;10;59;04
Michelle Griffin
Yeah. It's a bigger picture thing than just the tactical marketing, you know? And I don't know what areas. And I would nuance that a little bit. We don't just say I do marketing. I know I would nuance it to help a certain element or lens. But yeah, you would have a big picture. Why and statement and reason for being a lot of my clients have these injustices or things they see, and when they come to the table, a lot of people why they're in business, like Craig, why are you in business?

00;10;59;04 - 00;11;05;24
Michelle Griffin
What led you to start your business? I bet your purpose is underneath that somewhere.

00;11;05;26 - 00;11;07;26
Craig Andrews
You know, it's funny, a lot of,

00;11;07;26 - 00;11;16;11
Craig Andrews
I worked in corporate America for many years, and when I left and started my own business, I,

00;11;16;11 - 00;11;28;03
Craig Andrews
I, I'd been really good in my role in corporate America. And I realized when I started my own business how much I undervalued some of the people that made it possible for me to do what I did.

00;11;28;05 - 00;11;48;18
Craig Andrews
You know, it wasn't just me. It was. And I and I felt horrible about it. I just felt absolutely horrible that undervalued all these people. And I would say for me, you know, my my purpose right now is I wouldn't build,

00;11;48;18 - 00;11;59;01
Craig Andrews
I wouldn't build a team of people that just impact businesses, you know, help help impact other entrepreneurs.

00;11;59;03 - 00;12;02;21
Craig Andrews
But I want them to be the most highly,

00;12;02;21 - 00;12;22;07
Craig Andrews
sought after team from my competitors. I want might, I want, I want to live in fear that everybody wants to poach my people because they're that darn good. And I want to build the environment for them to thrive. And a lot of that is for me, trying to kind of right the wrongs.

00;12;22;10 - 00;12;26;14
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Of of my past.

00;12;26;17 - 00;12;33;06
Michelle Griffin
And that's and yeah, if I was teaching a workshop or working when and why do we dig into that? That's absolutely beautiful. We all have something that

00;12;33;06 - 00;12;41;18
Michelle Griffin
ignites us and sparks us for why we don't just, like, pick something out of a book. Usually it's like you're so. And that's what you get up for. And that's your personal,

00;12;41;18 - 00;12;43;09
Michelle Griffin
I call you professional purpose.

00;12;43;09 - 00;12;50;01
Michelle Griffin
It's kind of like your business. Ikigai. The reason for being why you're doing this, why do you want to get out there and be visible? And,

00;12;50;01 - 00;12;58;23
Michelle Griffin
so yeah, we dig on that. There's that's a huge start. And then we couple that with where do you want to go? Like, why are we just getting out here for the sake of being out here.

00;12;58;23 - 00;13;19;17
Michelle Griffin
That makes no sense. Just be invisible or just saying getting on LinkedIn, no one's going to do anything unless they have a bigger goal, an end point. Right. And so I'm really help them reveal that to themselves. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes they're just doing it because everyone else says so. Another thing too, if you're not ready and you don't want it, it's probably not a good time.

00;13;19;17 - 00;13;37;19
Michelle Griffin
It's okay. You don't have to just do what the masses do. You know, you could come back later. You have to be ready and willing. But that was the whole basis of my Ted talk. How do you know when it's. It's not out yet, but you flip the switch and when you realize, oh, it's not about me, I can get out there because I'm not here for vanity.

00;13;37;19 - 00;14;00;06
Michelle Griffin
A lot of my clients, Craig, and you may feel this way, too. Oh, Michelle, I just can't be. That's too self-promotional. Narcissistic. I am not that kind of person. And I'm like, no, we are not being those Instagram influencers. Nope, we're not doing that. This is all expertise led, you know, stuff that helps teams, businesses, leaders, you name it.

00;14;00;09 - 00;14;07;16
Michelle Griffin
So that's a good thing because at the end of the day, that's what businesses are solving problems. And that works. What we're doing getting out there.

00;14;07;19 - 00;14;30;25
Craig Andrews
So let's move on to the next one. Articulate your difference. And I could see a lot of people struggling with that. So you and I were talking about Hvac before we started the recording. And I mean there's only so much difference. You can have an Hvac I mean the you know you have all the standardized equipment. There's a standard way of treating it.

00;14;30;27 - 00;14;47;28
Craig Andrews
You know, and if we change the term Hvac to marketing or even branding, you know, there's, there's a lot of people doing things similar or identical to what we're doing. So how do you find your difference?

00;14;48;00 - 00;14;50;21
Michelle Griffin
Yes. Well, I think that's a great example. And,

00;14;50;21 - 00;15;11;07
Michelle Griffin
you know, one of the you probably see drive I live in Pensacola and where you are in Austin, you might drive around and see commercial trucks, customer service or even, you know, billboards or whatever. Customer service is our priority. Like don't go and business unless it is right. Like I see that as a like a flag of differentiation that is not,

00;15;11;07 - 00;15;13;29
Michelle Griffin
you're not trying to be better, you're just trying to be different in a way.

00;15;13;29 - 00;15;18;10
Michelle Griffin
So I have name recognition and, you know, I break it out into my,

00;15;18;10 - 00;15;30;16
Michelle Griffin
position yourself planner book I brought a couple months ago to help people along this process start if they're if they're having it and they don't have me to help them in the moment, I'm like, start with the problem you solve. Can you say the problem that you solve?

00;15;30;16 - 00;15;53;15
Michelle Griffin
And then we keep going more narrow laned, the more narrow lanes. And that's my better word, the niche. You know, that really helps as frame that positioning. And then we look at other things too. But we really want this unique edge factor that you are the only one the category one or whatever that is doing this for the most part.

00;15;53;17 - 00;16;34;06
Michelle Griffin
And maybe you specialize in Hvac for condos, okay. And Florida, that's going to be like, oh, they know the technicality of that or a retirement. I mean, there's so many ways to nuance and I love doing this stuff with my clients because I also do competitive advantage and analysis and stuff. But you want to find a way to slice and dice your narrow lane so that when people have that problem for that entity, your top of mind, and that's what we can control now, we can't control every aspect of our brand, but we can control, for the most part, how we, you know, show up, how we position plan our flag, if you will.

00;16;34;08 - 00;16;41;10
Michelle Griffin
And B2B, you know this well, a lot of the places sound alike. And so we don't want that. We want to be different.

00;16;41;12 - 00;17;00;09
Craig Andrews
You know, there's saying there's in the financial advisory space. I won't say it his name on here on the, podcast, but there's one guy I love to pick on because you've seen his ads. I guarantee you've seen his ads and his LinkedIn post and everything. And he goes, Rams like, we're different. And,

00;17;00;09 - 00;17;08;23
Craig Andrews
we're a fiduciary. And I'm like, well, first off, most people don't really know what a fiduciary it is.

00;17;08;25 - 00;17;21;03
Craig Andrews
It's a jargon term that's, you know, that's unique to you. Second thing is the chairman of the SEC said fiduciary is a meaningless term. That and third,

00;17;21;03 - 00;17;36;12
Craig Andrews
there's 450,000 financial advisors in the US. You also basically the same thing using basically the same tools. Don't tell me you're different. And I see that's where my hobbyhorse is, is when people grow out.

00;17;36;15 - 00;17;54;02
Craig Andrews
Well we're different. I'm like to the casual observer, you know, if somebody is kind of the your drive by customer or client that you only have a few seconds to capture their attention and you say, we're different. They're like, yeah, I've heard that before.

00;17;54;04 - 00;18;02;18
Michelle Griffin
You shouldn't even have to say you're different. It should be obvious and you shouldn't even be saying that. If you have to say it, it's almost like you're not right.

00;18;02;24 - 00;18;03;22
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;18;03;25 - 00;18;10;11
Michelle Griffin
And there's a lot of ways that I've worked with financial advisors and we really nuance and the problem with that is they have a lot of,

00;18;10;11 - 00;18;20;19
Michelle Griffin
regulation on what they can say. But yeah, that's one but there's ways to do it. And I know someone on LinkedIn who special and this is really cold. She's been on my podcast.

00;18;20;22 - 00;18;44;01
Michelle Griffin
She's about she's worked in that industry and she's a brand strategist that specializes just in financial advisors. So sometimes I send people to her now because she is in that world and it's brilliant. So she has got a thriving business. Just on being the brand strategist for for financial advisors. And so that's differentiation. That's positioning right there. Just top of mind here.

00;18;44;01 - 00;18;59;29
Michelle Griffin
I'm talking about her on a podcast and she lives in Canada. So there you go. So it's brilliant. But yeah you really want to work hard in that. And that was a disconnect. I saw a lot of people, you know, were better or were different, and if you had to say it, you're not really. But anyway, it's a great it's a great way I do.

00;18;59;29 - 00;19;14;29
Michelle Griffin
If you carve your narrow lane, you can always go wider. And that's another thing, Craig, people say, well, I don't want to niche. I don't even like the word niche, but I don't want to get so thin where I'm breaking off. Well, you know what? You're going to go faster, farther. When you have that smaller, narrow lane that people know you for.

00;19;14;29 - 00;19;17;20
Michelle Griffin
So that's what you want.

00;19;17;22 - 00;19;45;28
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And, you know, kind of a quick side note on the financial advisors with the compliance. You know, they're always worried about compliance. My experience. So we've worked in that field. My experience is if you look at compliance as you're as a asset, the quality of your marketing will go sky high because you have two choices. One is to just go, you know, say, all right, we're going to be boring.

00;19;46;00 - 00;20;06;06
Craig Andrews
I'm the other choices to say, okay, everybody else has these rules that they have to comply by. And if you don't, you get fined, lose your license, maybe go to jail. And so tight. The tight constraints of compliance, at least for me, generated some of my most creative work.

00;20;06;09 - 00;20;20;25
Michelle Griffin
Exactly. You have to be very creative and resourceful in the confines of something, but it can be done. And I've seen some amazing stuff. So yeah, don't just shoot it off. Oh, it's regulated. Let us be, you know, status quo. So that's a good point.

00;20;20;27 - 00;20;24;11
Craig Andrews
Yeah. All right. So navigate your brand. What does that mean.

00;20;24;14 - 00;20;42;29
Michelle Griffin
Yeah. That's when okay. We've we know why you're out there. You've got that purpose. It's driving you. We. Now that second step we are your position. We know your different. You're narrow lane so you can really be known top of mind to a smaller group that's going to, you know, expand over time. So now we want to communicate that brand.

00;20;43;01 - 00;21;04;21
Michelle Griffin
And I have in the book called the Brand Clarity Trifecta, we want to be super clear or your visual the visual elements the verbal. That's your messaging. We want to make sure especially in B2B, there's a lot of jargon. We don't want any of that. We want our messaging to be right for everything we said. And then our visceral how do we want to make people feel?

00;21;04;21 - 00;21;23;10
Michelle Griffin
That's the vibe, the visceral. And that's a big that's the brand strong brand. So when you get that brand clarity trifecta, those three elements get those set and every touchpoint is just aligned and well, so everywhere you show up, it just keeps adding those layers. Compound of your brand

00;21;23;10 - 00;21;26;26
Michelle Griffin
good affinity I like that I'm and so you translate that and everything.

00;21;26;26 - 00;21;28;08
Michelle Griffin
We make sure socials

00;21;28;08 - 00;21;46;17
Michelle Griffin
checked off LinkedIn, you know, then I can get in the weeds and marketing content. So I'm not going to do that right now. But there's a lot of disconnect. You know, you either you chip for or against your brand with everything you do. And that's also with, you know, your frontline, your customer service, how you answer, how you communicate.

00;21;46;17 - 00;22;07;13
Michelle Griffin
So you want to make sure all that is tied in to the brand feel. And it's just an engine. When it does, it absolutely starts working and compound ING for you. And that's a beautiful thing. And so that not only the the brand, the business and the people, the team employees, they all know how to show up, act not act like we're forcing them.

00;22;07;13 - 00;22;20;14
Michelle Griffin
But you know, they get they get it. It all aligns. So that's a huge thing. And marketing comes into that when I work in some marketing aspects with clients as well. So I know you do a lot of marketing too. And

00;22;20;14 - 00;22;23;12
Michelle Griffin
so that that's just evolving over time. That's the big

00;22;23;12 - 00;22;25;06
Michelle Griffin
chunk of it that keeps going and going.

00;22;25;06 - 00;22;31;24
Michelle Griffin
All of this keeps going, you know, together. And then then we get to the last step, which we can talk about.

00;22;31;27 - 00;22;33;09
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Before we go there,

00;22;33;09 - 00;22;57;27
Craig Andrews
so part of navigating your brand, that would be, you know, you mentioned speaking on podcasts and what have you. And I'm really curious when your take on this, it seems like post-Covid, the the conference and speaking world has shrunk tremendously. At least the conferences that I used to go to there are a lot smaller,

00;22;57;27 - 00;22;58;25
Craig Andrews
and there's fewer of them.

00;22;58;25 - 00;23;03;03
Craig Andrews
I've seen conferences go out of business. What are you saying?

00;23;03;06 - 00;23;05;09
Michelle Griffin
I think I'm seeing people are slowly.

00;23;05;09 - 00;23;14;03
Michelle Griffin
And that would be for E you know, again, elevating that authority. So I see yes. They took a hit. They did. And I actually was in the conference,

00;23;14;03 - 00;23;20;27
Michelle Griffin
marketing world for I was the executive director of a professional association. And we had a big conference in Orlando for two years.

00;23;20;27 - 00;23;25;09
Michelle Griffin
I, I left right at the last one before Covid hit in 2020. But,

00;23;25;09 - 00;23;58;25
Michelle Griffin
people, now what I'm getting to read because I do a lot of social listening. I'm still in that space. I listen to a lot of the industry people. People are hungry for connection now, so they might be not as big, but these smaller ones that are more easy, that are easier and cheaper to put together and faster to turn around, those I think can bring a smaller amount of people together and have a huge impact, because I used to have to go rep our sociation to 10,000 person huge conferences and it was like, oh my gosh, how do you how

00;23;58;25 - 00;24;16;28
Michelle Griffin
do you stand out here? So I think the quality versus the quantity as, as far as the people and making those tight connections is what we're craving right now, especially with so much digital, so much I and and listen, I'm not anti I, I use it every day but it can take our humanity away if we let it.

00;24;16;28 - 00;24;20;21
Michelle Griffin
So we we need that refresh recharge of people in person.

00;24;20;24 - 00;24;29;23
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So as you're getting, you know back navigating the brand as you're getting the name out there and you were talking about marketing playing a role.

00;24;29;23 - 00;24;44;15
Craig Andrews
I ran a poll on LinkedIn and I'm interested in your answer on this. And it's not that there's a wrong answer, but it shows different perspectives. And I asked the question I asked and was actually one of my most engaged polls.

00;24;44;18 - 00;24;46;15
Craig Andrews
And I asked what,

00;24;46;15 - 00;24;55;01
Craig Andrews
what's your by your opinion, what is the most important element of branding. And the choices I gave them was,

00;24;55;01 - 00;24;56;20
Craig Andrews
top of mind. I think,

00;24;56;26 - 00;25;10;06
Craig Andrews
awareness. And the third was emotional bonding. And so I'm curious of those three choices, if you could only have one and obviously that wouldn't be the case, you'd have.

00;25;10;10 - 00;25;14;07
Michelle Griffin
Almost like a trick question because you're all like equal parts of a brand.

00;25;14;07 - 00;25;24;19
Michelle Griffin
I think the emotion. Okay. Oh, this is almost a trick question. Set up question back to you is the emotional connection positive or negative.

00;25;24;22 - 00;25;25;26
Craig Andrews
Well yeah.

00;25;25;29 - 00;25;26;16
Michelle Griffin
Okay.

00;25;26;18 - 00;25;29;00
Craig Andrews
Yeah. I mean no. And that's. Yeah.

00;25;29;00 - 00;25;30;26
Craig Andrews
Yeah, I, I published a,

00;25;30;26 - 00;25;34;10
Craig Andrews
a LinkedIn newsletter where I said,

00;25;34;10 - 00;25;37;21
Craig Andrews
you know, look at target versus logo,

00;25;37;21 - 00;25;38;00
Craig Andrews
or

00;25;38;00 - 00;25;54;00
Craig Andrews
Walmart. When you look at their logos, what are the feelings that you have? And I have much different feelings when I see the Walmart logo than I do when I see the target logo and the Walmart's a little bit negative, it makes me think of dirty stores filled with,

00;25;54;00 - 00;25;56;19
Craig Andrews
crammed aisles and employees that hate their job.

00;25;56;26 - 00;26;13;12
Michelle Griffin
Now that's that target. Actually, it I think it's emotional connection. I, I things change on a dime. Have you been a target lately? It's a mess. It's getting better. Oh, my God, I won't even go to the one anymore if you. I do a lot of social listening and they're junk now. It's.

00;26;13;12 - 00;26;15;20
Michelle Griffin
The brand is ruined. I hope they can come back.

00;26;15;20 - 00;26;37;19
Michelle Griffin
They're so junky. And Walmart has gone, undergone billion dollar renovations and people are flocking to Walmart now. I mean, not everyone. Really? Yeah. Trust me, I do. You would not believe so. Yeah. I think the emotional connection by this is positive or negative because I like I said I would go to Walmart. I'm not Walmart target all the time with my kids and we'd, you know, whatever.

00;26;37;24 - 00;26;52;13
Michelle Griffin
Then they took out all the snack things and Starbucks, which is just so run of the mill anyway. So I kept going there and, you know, like, why are there so many junky star Mart cups? And it looks like a first store in here. And I after a couple times, I'm like, I'm not going back to target anymore.

00;26;52;13 - 00;27;12;20
Michelle Griffin
I know I wasn't the only one crying. People are saying the same thing. So it's the emotional connection for or against, right. So see how it can change on a dime. You wouldn't never in a million years thought that now there would be people who who probably think differently for me, but there's enough media and articles to support that, that I'm not the only one.

00;27;12;23 - 00;27;13;21
Michelle Griffin
So,

00;27;13;21 - 00;27;33;23
Michelle Griffin
so I think that's a case for you really need to keep the brand in check at all levels, in all places, because who would ever thought the beautiful targets would come crashing in? And I'm not talking to any of their stuff. Like what? Their products. I'm just talking about their surface level store stuff so things can change on a dime.

00;27;33;23 - 00;27;50;24
Michelle Griffin
So you've got to protect that brand, asset and equity at any moment. Because look, you know, these are the things that. So anyway, that's a great question I love that. That's why I love brand. You can't put a thing on it just like your pull. There's so many moving parts. Right. So it's it's fascinating.

00;27;50;27 - 00;27;59;15
Craig Andrews
Well, and one of the things that I see well, when I hear people talking about branding, you know, when you have the people that think the brand is logo, the fonts and the colors.

00;27;59;18 - 00;28;00;04
Michelle Griffin
Yeah.

00;28;00;07 - 00;28;06;13
Craig Andrews
And like and for those who are listening, you should have seen the look. She just gave me. She's like, oh yeah.

00;28;06;15 - 00;28;11;19
Michelle Griffin
I don't mean to be like snarky, but yeah, it's a big disconnect. It's part of it. Not all of it.

00;28;11;22 - 00;28;18;03
Craig Andrews
Well, and the way I put it is the fonts, the color, you know, the colors in the logo are there to remind you?

00;28;18;05 - 00;28;18;18
Michelle Griffin
Yes.

00;28;18;23 - 00;28;40;15
Craig Andrews
Of I focus heavily on the emotion. They're there to remind you of the emotion. And so when we're when we're working with a client, another misunderstanding is people think or branding. That's what you do if you're Apple or Nike. But I don't have the money to make a national brand. I'm like, well, if you don't have a mass market,

00;28;40;15 - 00;28;51;18
Craig Andrews
product or service, you don't want a national brand, you want the people in your, you know, back to your own your lane, the people in your industry, your ideal clients.

00;28;51;18 - 00;29;02;28
Craig Andrews
You want them to know you. You know, the average Joe on the street probably should never even know who you are. Yeah, but but for the people that you serve, the,

00;29;02;28 - 00;29;13;05
Craig Andrews
you won't have a, you won't have a brand. And so one of the things that we focus on, and this is very much in the spirit of Mount Zion, you know, we tell stories.

00;29;13;07 - 00;29;13;28
Michelle Griffin
Yes.

00;29;14;00 - 00;29;36;19
Craig Andrews
You know, when, you know, let's say if we're doing lead gen, we'll do lead, Jen. And anybody that interacts with the ad or visits the website, we create what's called a retargeting audience. And we'll run a branding ad to them. That's just telling a story. There's no call to action. Yeah. There's nothing. It's pure purpose is to create an emotional connection.

00;29;36;21 - 00;29;56;01
Michelle Griffin
Absolutely. I mean, you can and I think that is the one differentiator is all the stories. And that does not cost money. I mean, yes, you can run ads with it, but people are drawn to stories, especially with too much content and AI driven content. That's all the same. So that's another differentiator. You, humanity, your uniqueness in your stories and,

00;29;56;01 - 00;29;56;23
Michelle Griffin
I love those.

00;29;56;23 - 00;30;22;23
Michelle Griffin
And you can start telling just stories. If you're worried about content and social media, just organic storytelling. You know, our friend Matt Zahn is so good at that and people are drawn to it. I follow a lot of accounts on Instagram. I'm not a big Instagrammer, but I follow a lot of business accounts on LinkedIn. Excuse me, I follow a lot of business accounts on Instagram that do a lot of storytelling well, and I find a lot of inspiration about that.

00;30;22;23 - 00;30;29;16
Michelle Griffin
So that's another thing for smaller, you know, startup that wants to start telling stories, brand stories.

00;30;29;19 - 00;30;34;26
Craig Andrews
So let's move on to the last thing, which is you said E. It's it's proof.

00;30;34;29 - 00;30;50;08
Michelle Griffin
It's elevate your authority, which is the proof points. Yes. You want to know that you're you know, you say everything you're doing. We want to do business with all these things. But we're especially drawn to people who are the authorities are leaders in their industry. And this is how you start creating that is,

00;30;50;08 - 00;30;56;16
Michelle Griffin
diversifying your visibility streams with, you know, publicity, PR, speaking.

00;30;56;19 - 00;31;00;11
Craig Andrews
Okay. So, you know, it's it's funny, the,

00;31;00;11 - 00;31;04;21
Craig Andrews
you obviously know my story. And I went in the hospital,

00;31;04;21 - 00;31;07;03
Craig Andrews
back in 21. I,

00;31;07;03 - 00;31;21;27
Craig Andrews
I was getting into Pete Vargas stuff. Do you know who Pete Vargas is? And so I think the first event, you know, I really attended was his is online event in 2020. You know, he had he had one scheduled in Florida.

00;31;22;00 - 00;31;24;13
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And he was genius.

00;31;24;13 - 00;31;40;14
Craig Andrews
And what he did, you know, since the lockdowns hit, he pulled his team in. He's like, okay, we just lost our big event the year where we make all of our money. What do we do? And he held this online event and pioneered a whole new way of doing,

00;31;40;14 - 00;31;43;06
Craig Andrews
conferences. And so I attended that.

00;31;43;09 - 00;31;50;22
Craig Andrews
I was like, okay, I need to start getting booked on stages. And then June of 21, he his he held his,

00;31;50;22 - 00;32;04;09
Craig Andrews
annual event again. He held it up in Dallas. And I went up to that and I started working on my speaker page and all that. And that was June the 21st. Six weeks later, I wake up sick, and then,

00;32;04;09 - 00;32;08;13
Craig Andrews
then start my three month journey through the hospital, and,

00;32;08;13 - 00;32;18;23
Craig Andrews
and when I got out, you know, just just for for those that don't know when you, when you're in a coma, you don't wake up in, like, life goes back to normal, your body just completely deteriorates.

00;32;18;26 - 00;32;28;00
Craig Andrews
And so the first time I was able to speak was almost a year later and,

00;32;28;00 - 00;32;29;09
Craig Andrews
speak at a conference.

00;32;29;09 - 00;32;32;23
Michelle Griffin
It was okay. I was going to say it took a year to speak. I didn't realize that. Well,

00;32;32;23 - 00;32;32;29
Michelle Griffin
no.

00;32;32;29 - 00;32;34;01
Craig Andrews
No, no, no, speak of that.

00;32;34;01 - 00;32;36;21
Michelle Griffin
Coming back on stage. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

00;32;36;24 - 00;32;41;28
Craig Andrews
It was almost a year later and it was in Vegas.

00;32;41;28 - 00;32;57;08
Craig Andrews
And it was at Caesars Palace, and I was staying next door at the, the Mirage. I remember at the end of the first day, I was at party after party up in one of the suites. I left the suite. I go through the form at the at Caesars Palace.

00;32;57;08 - 00;33;07;00
Craig Andrews
I get to kind of the end, you know, the shopping center. I'm wiped out and I sit down. I want to lay down, take a nap. But I know if I, if I fall asleep on a bench in Vegas, I'm going to get robbed.

00;33;07;02 - 00;33;08;08
Michelle Griffin
Yeah.

00;33;08;10 - 00;33;32;20
Craig Andrews
By arrest for about ten minutes. Then I got up. I walked next door to the Mirage. I can make it to the casino floor. I sit down and rest again. My goodness. And after another ten minutes rest, then finally go up to my room. And so was always frustrating. I just done all this work to get ready to go on the speaking circuit and then got heard, thrown a huge curveball and and I haven't been able to do much with it.

00;33;32;20 - 00;33;34;08
Craig Andrews
How do,

00;33;34;08 - 00;33;39;27
Craig Andrews
how did people getting on stages, especially if the stages are shrinking, seems hard?

00;33;39;29 - 00;33;45;10
Michelle Griffin
Well, you know, you're going to start. I mean, there's still the big ones, don't get me wrong. But if you're starting, you want to start.

00;33;45;10 - 00;34;00;16
Michelle Griffin
So you're. This is interesting. You you asked me this because I think before we went live, I said, are you doing any speaking? Because first of all, your story is incredible. And I, I work with speakers to, to get their speaker brand blueprint done to running through the own your lane thing,

00;34;00;16 - 00;34;04;17
Michelle Griffin
running their through line, their story, their being message, tying it to their business.

00;34;04;17 - 00;34;15;06
Michelle Griffin
So I would say get all that set up. I don't know if you ever had that done or done that lately or whatever since your, you know, curveball and

00;34;15;06 - 00;34;18;10
Michelle Griffin
and then you would start, there's a lot of different ways to,

00;34;18;10 - 00;34;26;06
Michelle Griffin
to start that process, but I would start just getting in front of speaking. I'm a member of the National Speaker Association, especially the New Orleans chapter.

00;34;26;09 - 00;34;31;25
Michelle Griffin
And I'm participate there. I'm actually speaking for them in September about speaker branding. And,

00;34;31;25 - 00;34;32;29
Michelle Griffin
I would start getting

00;34;32;29 - 00;34;51;20
Michelle Griffin
involved in those kind of organizations. They're here to help and get you. You know, here's the thing. Their tagline and their mission is basically saying, what I love about branding and what I'm talking about here is like speaking is a form of service and giving solutions and inspiration.

00;34;51;20 - 00;35;14;29
Michelle Griffin
So I would get all that set up and then I would start just getting on. You want to be a speaker, just start speaking, start speaking locally, start speaking everywhere and then you're going to that's where most speakers get booked is in front of other people. Yeah. Yes. You can pitch and stuff. I mean, we used to hire big name speakers and breakout speakers too, so I know the other side as well, working with speaker bureaus, I mean even planners.

00;35;14;29 - 00;35;29;25
Michelle Griffin
But just start speaking. You'll get more reps and you'll get your message honed. You know, you'll get hopefully the message out there, but you'll just keep seeing what you know lands better. You'll it's just a beautiful process of putting yourself out there. So I think you should do it. And,

00;35;29;25 - 00;35;33;05
Michelle Griffin
the funny thing you ask. And that's what I asked.

00;35;33;05 - 00;35;36;07
Michelle Griffin
So there's a sign right there. Go for it.

00;35;36;10 - 00;36;01;27
Craig Andrews
Well, I would say to anybody else the one of the things. So I started doing podcasts in 23, I believe it was 23 and yeah, it was 23. And I did, I think, 70 podcasts in 2023 a lot. And one of the things I learned was the more I was on podcasts, I would,

00;36;01;27 - 00;36;04;01
Craig Andrews
I would start adjusting.

00;36;04;03 - 00;36;22;10
Craig Andrews
Well, I would say, and I remember one thing in particular, you know, so I talk about, you know, generally talking about first time offers on podcasts. And and getting them right is just incredibly hard. If you have a, if you have a high ticket complex service getting the off, you know, the front end offer for

00;36;22;10 - 00;36;24;04
Craig Andrews
the low ticket front end offer.

00;36;24;07 - 00;36;42;00
Craig Andrews
Right. That leads to that is a lot harder than it looks. And so I would try I told people that and one time I said, I said my first first time offer failed. My second first time offer failed, my third first time offer failed a little bit less.

00;36;42;02 - 00;36;42;24
Michelle Griffin
Yeah.

00;36;42;27 - 00;36;59;12
Craig Andrews
And the the host laughed. I was like, oh, well, let me try that again. And all of a sudden I realized, okay, that's the way I need to deliver that. That's a place where you can get the reps in. So when you go on stage, you can deliver punchier lines.

00;36;59;15 - 00;37;20;20
Michelle Griffin
Exactly. It's the same thing. And yeah, I mean, and the beautiful thing is you're saying you're hosting and guesting, right? That you add that even together. Because as a host, because I do two podcasts, you've got to be able to turn on a dime to some sometimes. So you're turning on a dime both ways. So yeah, that is an added advantage.

00;37;20;20 - 00;37;39;07
Michelle Griffin
And then you couple that with is don't be, you know, don't turn down anything to speak when you're just starting because you need that reps to be a better speaker. No one becomes an athlete just getting out on the stage. They work their way up from, you know, five years old or whatever they did, you know, same thing for speaking.

00;37;39;07 - 00;37;39;23
Michelle Griffin
And,

00;37;39;23 - 00;37;49;11
Michelle Griffin
but yeah, so you're already you're already halfway there. You're already you're ready to get back in it. So I'm I'm cheering you on. I have a special place for speakers when I work with speakers because

00;37;49;11 - 00;37;59;10
Michelle Griffin
it's just a beautiful process and you're impacting so many people at scale. That and authors. I love working with speakers and authors too, but especially speakers because it's live.

00;37;59;10 - 00;38;11;08
Michelle Griffin
It's in the moment. It's that connection. And you're helping people and they need it with your expertise. So keep me posted on all this. I'm cheering you on. Craig. This is amazing.

00;38;11;11 - 00;38;28;01
Craig Andrews
Well thank you Michelle. This has been amazing. Let me see if I have the four points. The first is what's your purpose. The second is to articulate your difference. The third is navigate your brand. And the third fourth is what elevate your brand and create.

00;38;28;03 - 00;38;37;04
Michelle Griffin
L a n e. So launch your vision, articulate your difference. Navigate your brand, elevate your authority. So yeah, try to make it easy Lane. And

00;38;37;04 - 00;38;39;10
Michelle Griffin
I'll have more. Another book out this year

00;38;39;10 - 00;38;43;03
Michelle Griffin
later this year about putting yourself out there incorporating the own your lane,

00;38;43;03 - 00;38;55;04
Michelle Griffin
with my Ted talk theme. And so I'm just going to keep writing and speaking and hopefully, you know, impacting people so they can get their brilliance out and change the world one one person at a time.

00;38;55;04 - 00;38;56;03
Michelle Griffin
Right.

00;38;56;05 - 00;38;59;01
Craig Andrews
Well that's awesome, Michelle, how can people reach you?

00;38;59;03 - 00;39;02;22
Michelle Griffin
Oh thank you. Well, a couple different ways. First of all,

00;39;02;22 - 00;39;05;20
Michelle Griffin
reach out to me on LinkedIn. I met Michelle B Griffin

00;39;05;20 - 00;39;10;09
Michelle Griffin
B stands for brand. I always like to say people remember that. And,

00;39;10;09 - 00;39;15;24
Michelle Griffin
tell me you heard me here. I always love to connect the dots and I love connecting with people. I'm a huge people person.

00;39;15;24 - 00;39;29;26
Michelle Griffin
So LinkedIn, I'm very active on LinkedIn and my hub is Michelle B Griffin. Again B stands for brand Michelle B griffin.com. You can check out my books, my podcast, my resources. Just anything I can help you with. Reach out.

00;39;29;26 - 00;39;39;23
Michelle Griffin
Because it's truly my professional purpose, Craig is to help brilliant people get their message, their expertise, their their thing out into the world.

00;39;39;26 - 00;39;40;16
Michelle Griffin
And,

00;39;40;16 - 00;39;45;24
Michelle Griffin
that's why I'm here. So I, I love it, and I'd love to hear from you. Whoever's listening.

00;39;45;26 - 00;39;48;25
Craig Andrews
That's awesome. Michelle. Thank you.

00;39;48;28 - 00;39;55;27
Michelle Griffin
Thank you for the opportunity to finally meet you and to have this conversation. It's been brilliant.

00;39;55;27 - 00;40;22;21
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;40;22;21 - 00;40;24;16
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00;40;24;18 - 00;40;47;28
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest. Tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.

00;40;48;00 - 00;40;56;05
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up. Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.

00;40;56;05 - 00;42;58;10
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.