--- title: "Episode #215: Building a Workforce from Scratch: Michael Cole’s Leadership in the Trades" description: Michael Cole’s journey from a failed Subway franchise to leading a successful training and staffing firm in the trades, focusing on integrity and second chances. image: https://pod.allies4me.com/hubfs/Podcast/Episodes/Michael-Cole-R-4.jpg --- [![Allies4me](https://pod.allies4me.com/hubfs/raw_assets/public/Allies4me_May2022/images/logo.svg "Allies4me")](https://allies4me.com/) Menu - [Home](https://allies4me.com/) - [Grow](https://allies4me.com/grow/) - [Financial Advisors](https://allies4me.com/grow/financial-advisors/) - [Foundations Courses](https://hub.allies4me.com/courses/course-signup/) - [Podcast](https://allies4me.com/podcast/) - [Have Craig Speak at Your Event](https://hub.allies4me.com/lp/speak/) - [Be a Guest](https://pod.allies4me.com/podcast-guest/) - [Get Started](https://allies4me.com/get-started/) - [Have Craig Speak at Your Event](https://hub.allies4me.com/lp/speak/) - [Community](https://allies4me.com/about/community/) - [Downloads](https://allies4me.com/downloads/) ## Episode #215: Building a Workforce from Scratch: Michael Cole’s Leadership in the Trades July 31, 2025 by [Craig Andrews](https://pod.allies4me.com/podcast/author/craig-andrews) Michael Cole, President of Next Level Technician, shares how he turned a failed Subway franchise and a few unlikely training classes into a thriving staffing and training company in the low-voltage trades. In a field plagued by high turnover and unpredictability, Cole stands out by building systems that value integrity and grit over credentials. His leadership journey is rooted in real-world trial and error—like discovering too late that some recruits are afraid of ladders or can’t pass drug tests. Michael’s leadership sharpens through adversity: he reshaped his business model after nearly every early mistake. His approach to staffing centers on deep vetting, video interviews, and second chances for people who own their past mistakes. He’s built a company that sets clear expectations, values honesty, and adapts without lowering standards. This episode is a masterclass in leading imperfect people to create powerful outcomes. Want to learn more about Michael Cole's work? Check out their website at [https://www.nextleveltechnician.com](https://www.nextleveltechnician.com). Connect with Michael Cole on LinkedIn at [https://www.linkedin.com/in/coles-corner/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/coles-corner/). ## Key Points & Timestamps - **00:01:00** – From franchise fallout to a new mission in trades - **00:04:31** – Subway sale and the surprising timing of the Jared scandal - **00:05:26** – Launching a niche staffing firm for low-voltage trades - **00:08:43** – Inspired by youth outreach to create training programs - **00:10:36** – First training class fails; key lessons learned - **00:13:08** – Colorblindness and ladder fears—unexpected screening filters - **00:17:01** – Switching to video interviews and losing 40% of applicants - **00:20:01** – The cost of honesty and second chances in staffing - **00:24:32** – Leading a team when your product is unpredictable people - **00:28:40** – Launching a new virtual training platform to scale impact ## Transcript 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20 Craig Andrews I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career. 00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10 Craig Andrews My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show. 00;00;51;10 - 00;01;00;19 Craig Andrews Today I want to welcome Michael Cole. He is the president of Next Level technician. Michael went from being a franchise owner. That one kind of, 00;01;00;19 - 00;01;03;29 Craig Andrews shake in a shaky way and decided to started, 00;01;03;29 - 00;01;06;13 Craig Andrews staffing and training company, 00;01;06;13 - 00;01;07;27 Craig Andrews for the trades. 00;01;07;27 - 00;01;11;10 Craig Andrews A greatly needed area. And he thinks the trades were overlooked. 00;01;11;10 - 00;01;12;21 Craig Andrews And there's not enough training for that. 00;01;12;21 - 00;01;17;25 Craig Andrews So he set out to fix that and then Covid hit. So, 00;01;17;25 - 00;01;20;06 Craig Andrews this is going to be a neat discussion. Michael, welcome. 00;01;20;13 - 00;01;22;19 Michael Cole Hey, what's going on? Craig? Thanks for having me. 00;01;22;22 - 00;01;25;20 Craig Andrews Absolutely, absolutely. So, 00;01;25;20 - 00;01;27;00 Craig Andrews so you grew up in 00;01;27;00 - 00;01;28;11 Craig Andrews North Carolina? 00;01;28;13 - 00;01;31;16 Michael Cole I did a small town called Hickory, North Carolina. 00;01;31;19 - 00;01;35;13 Craig Andrews I've been there. I've been to the factory that made my dining chairs. 00;01;35;16 - 00;01;37;14 Michael Cole Furniture capital of the world. 00;01;37;17 - 00;01;40;25 Craig Andrews Yeah. And my, 00;01;40;25 - 00;01;45;25 Craig Andrews my dining table was made in Morganton, and they, 00;01;45;25 - 00;02;01;26 Craig Andrews they went out of business, I think, back around oh nine. And I think one of the things that's really sad is amazing. Furniture used to be made in North Carolina, you know, Piedmont and and, 00;02;01;26 - 00;02;05;16 Craig Andrews mountains and just disappeared. 00;02;05;19 - 00;02;08;09 Michael Cole Yeah, there's still a few hold on shop. And, 00;02;08;09 - 00;02;12;21 Michael Cole surprisingly enough, Hickory, North Carolina also had a booming, 00;02;12;21 - 00;02;25;12 Michael Cole copper cabling, fiber optics, which just kind of goes hand in hand with what I do now, too. Surprisingly enough. But yeah, at one point in time between the manufacturing of that and furniture, it was a hot spot to be. 00;02;25;15 - 00;02;28;21 Craig Andrews It's really sad. And, 00;02;28;21 - 00;02;33;27 Craig Andrews it's really sad because the furniture I've met, you know, I, I bought it four years ago. 00;02;33;27 - 00;02;50;26 Craig Andrews My dining table, I bought, I bought in 99 as a 20. Yeah. I've had it for about 25 years, and it's the type thing I expect to stay in my family 2 or 3 generations. 00;02;50;29 - 00;02;57;03 Michael Cole My bedroom furniture from high school. My daughter has still that we bought in Hickory, North Carolina. 00;02;57;06 - 00;03;17;19 Craig Andrews Yeah. You know and there's, there's been a I mean there's been a loss. We focused on college so much for so many years. The trades got neglected. And and then we let the Chinese just kind of kick our butts on furniture, which is sad. 00;03;17;19 - 00;03;24;16 Craig Andrews And we. And just feels like there's a lot of skills that have been lost over time. 00;03;24;19 - 00;03;26;07 Michael Cole Yeah. And unfortunately, with, 00;03;26;07 - 00;03;30;22 Michael Cole technology, we're going to continue to lose some of these skill sets. 00;03;30;25 - 00;03;39;04 Craig Andrews Yeah. So you decide. So you decide to do that. So first off, tell me about the subway you had. Yeah. The subway franchise. 00;03;39;11 - 00;03;41;23 Michael Cole Yep. Had us had a subway franchise. 00;03;41;23 - 00;03;43;19 Michael Cole I had a business partner at the time. 00;03;43;19 - 00;03;48;04 Michael Cole It was interesting. I worked a full time job as my first taste of ever owning a business. 00;03;48;04 - 00;03;49;05 Michael Cole My wife helped run it. 00;03;49;05 - 00;03;52;04 Michael Cole And we got we bought essentially a, 00;03;52;04 - 00;03;57;14 Michael Cole beaten down store that a previous owner was getting kicked out of, which, oddly enough, that can happen. 00;03;57;16 - 00;04;07;00 Michael Cole But you have to piss off a lot of people. So we got that store, really? For next to nothing. Almost had a business partner. Our plan was to grow and then for me to eventually buy him out. 00;04;07;00 - 00;04;10;28 Michael Cole Things went a little south when we went to go look at getting our second store. 00;04;10;28 - 00;04;18;05 Michael Cole So long story short, a lot of ugliness that came out of that when you have partnerships and things go south. 00;04;18;07 - 00;04;21;23 Michael Cole So we decided to obviously sell the original store. We had, 00;04;21;23 - 00;04;28;15 Michael Cole to back to the original owner, which was a whole nother fiasco. It was just an interesting way things worked. 00;04;28;15 - 00;04;31;13 Michael Cole And then a week later is when the Jared scandal broke. 00;04;31;19 - 00;04;32;10 Craig Andrews Like, literally. 00;04;32;13 - 00;04;41;07 Michael Cole We transfer paper to the store. This Jared scandal broke Subway's sales across the board, across the country. Went down 30%. 00;04;41;09 - 00;04;43;20 Craig Andrews Oh my goodness. Yeah. That, 00;04;43;20 - 00;04;47;01 Craig Andrews that had to be like a kick in the gut when you saw that news break. 00;04;47;03 - 00;04;56;14 Michael Cole It was. But also was a blessing in disguise, because here I was going through this legal battle with someone that was kind of a mentor to me that I thought was a mentor towards me, and it just ended so ugly. 00;04;56;14 - 00;05;06;00 Michael Cole To then see that happen and sales go down 30%. You know, I am a firm believer that sometimes things just happen for a reason, and what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. 00;05;06;03 - 00;05;13;25 Michael Cole So to see that happen was like, okay, that was tough, but thank God I did get out because we would have been struggling. We were still a small operation. 00;05;13;28 - 00;05;26;11 Craig Andrews Yeah. And so first off, let me back up. Kind of high level. What do you do? What do you get for businesses? 00;05;26;13 - 00;05;41;28 Michael Cole Yep. So next level technician. We are a very niche staffing and training company that only focuses on low voltage. So think structured cabling, fiber optics, security systems, audio visual and fire alarm okay. 00;05;42;00 - 00;05;44;09 Craig Andrews And you staff technicians or. 00;05;44;15 - 00;05;57;13 Michael Cole We do everything. So all staff from a green technician that knows nothing about the industry. And we'll try to help provide some training. Some of our clients just prefer to have some greener folks to come in, because they don't have as many bad habits, and they can train them the way they want them. 00;05;57;13 - 00;06;01;09 Michael Cole And we'll go all the way up to lead level project management. 00;06;01;09 - 00;06;03;25 Michael Cole We've even done some sales folks as well. 00;06;03;27 - 00;06;14;20 Craig Andrews Well, you know, it's funny, we were talking about that in the green room. The biggest Hvac company in Charlotte made that decision years ago, that they would never hire anybody who had ever worked for when their competitors. 00;06;14;20 - 00;06;25;28 Craig Andrews And it was for the bad habits they wanted. They wanted, you know, they they felt like they could have a better quality service by bringing in people, putting them through their own training. 00;06;26;01 - 00;06;45;05 Michael Cole Yeah. And I think a lot of businesses make that mistake. I mean, I made it back when we had the subway, and I've even made it one here at Next Level, where we hired people that had experience because they either worked at another subway or in a similar industry role like that next level as a recruiter. And either they come with a lot of bad habits with that. 00;06;45;05 - 00;06;47;13 Michael Cole When we used to do it this way, at this place, 00;06;47;13 - 00;07;02;09 Michael Cole or also like you, just you end up taking somebody from your competition. It's not always a good look at the back end of it. It can cause other issues out in the marketplace. And so when you get that reputation of like, I want to steal other people's folks, it's not a good look either, you know. 00;07;02;09 - 00;07;08;05 Michael Cole So there's there's two sides to it. One, the bad habits side that you could get. The other side is the reputation they could have on your business. 00;07;08;07 - 00;07;26;08 Craig Andrews Yeah. Well, here's something that's kind of funny. I'm a much bigger scale. The guy who is currently running Google's organic search team was the guy who was in charge of Yahoo. Yahoo's search engine went failed, but he has experience. Yeah. 00;07;26;10 - 00;07;31;01 Michael Cole And that one? That one. If it fails, that's a whole different story, you know, then I think it's free. Yes. 00;07;31;03 - 00;07;37;15 Craig Andrews Well, but all of his experiences on driving a one of the world's leading search engines into the dirt. 00;07;37;17 - 00;07;37;27 Michael Cole Yeah. 00;07;37;29 - 00;07;45;10 Craig Andrews Well, and I think he's done some of the I think he's brought some of his magic to Google because, 00;07;45;10 - 00;07;51;09 Craig Andrews I think Google's broken right now. Yeah. So. So anyway, you were telling me, 00;07;51;09 - 00;07;55;26 Craig Andrews so at some point you decided, hey, we're just going to do this kind of, 00;07;55;26 - 00;08;00;07 Craig Andrews staffing thing, and we're going to train people. And you did it with live, live entrepreneurs do. 00;08;00;07 - 00;08;07;04 Craig Andrews You're like, hey, this seems to be a need. Let me go do it. I'll do the research later on where it takes. 00;08;07;06 - 00;08;07;19 Michael Cole Yeah. 00;08;07;19 - 00;08;13;08 Michael Cole And I still live by that motto. Figure it out along the way. So I worked for a distribution company. They were, 00;08;13;08 - 00;08;19;19 Michael Cole a great company to work for. And I was selling all the products that our technicians install on a regular basis. So, 00;08;19;19 - 00;08;24;07 Michael Cole every day, phone calls would be, hey, if you're of any technicians looking for work, send them my way. 00;08;24;07 - 00;08;29;19 Michael Cole Send them my way. And, I mean, this was a regular, almost everyday occurrence where people were calling about needing folks. 00;08;29;19 - 00;08;33;19 Michael Cole So I said, man, I can figure this out. I got this. So, 00;08;33;19 - 00;08;43;08 Michael Cole it didn't quite click though. I was doing some volunteer work at a youth home until a kid that kind of felt like didn't have a lot of opportunities. 00;08;43;08 - 00;08;58;06 Michael Cole Once he was going to be asked to leave this home at the age of 18, 19 years old. And I would just drive and home, kind of just like, man, there's got to be some better options for kids that don't want to take the traditional college path. Maybe they don't even have the opportunity for that path. 00;08;58;06 - 00;09;01;25 Michael Cole You know, a lot of people will fall victim to their circumstances, but there's always a way out. 00;09;01;25 - 00;09;16;23 Michael Cole You just need other people in your life to kind of point you in those directions. So I was driving home after volunteering and it just hit me. I'm like, this is it. I can work with organizations like this, I can work with local high schools. I can do all these things to do a training. And then it hit that I don't know how to do a training. 00;09;16;23 - 00;09;18;28 Michael Cole I've never done this. I don't want install this. 00;09;18;28 - 00;09;27;17 Michael Cole I'm not a contractor. I sell the product. I know a lot about the product, but couldn't tell you like the the intricacies of how it works and how to install it. 00;09;27;17 - 00;09;32;01 Michael Cole So I called a buddy, my name's Jeff, and I said, hey, man, I've got this idea, do you want to help out? 00;09;32;01 - 00;09;34;08 Michael Cole And he was all about it. 00;09;34;10 - 00;09;37;05 Craig Andrews Yeah. So how did it go? So you 00;09;37;05 - 00;09;38;24 Craig Andrews guys set up this training? What happened? 00;09;38;27 - 00;09;41;01 Michael Cole It was terrible. So we hit up, 00;09;41;01 - 00;09;43;29 Michael Cole just about every local agency you could think of. 00;09;43;29 - 00;09;54;03 Michael Cole So from at rescues to local government agencies, local high schools. I went about on a month bender of just beating up everybody. I could, putting fliers out, 00;09;54;03 - 00;09;59;29 Michael Cole word of mouth, putting in, even in local community colleges, like, on their bulletin boards, just trying to get anything I could, 00;09;59;29 - 00;10;02;14 Michael Cole we got about ten people for the first class. 00;10;02;16 - 00;10;07;15 Michael Cole We made it two weeks long because I had to do it after hours because I was still working a full time job. 00;10;07;15 - 00;10;23;06 Michael Cole Terrible, terrible that we we had a good training system in place, but we didn't think about. Are you scared of heights? Have you ever used basic hand tools? Just simple things that you just assumed anybody that was going to take this class would be okay with? 00;10;23;08 - 00;10;36;00 Michael Cole Only to find out after getting into the class, we had one kid go up half a ladder and just a sixth, like not even a tall ladder and just white knuckled it like after two steps. And I was like, oh, we didn't think about this at all. 00;10;36;00 - 00;10;39;25 Michael Cole So out of that first class of two weeks, we started with ten. 00;10;39;25 - 00;10;46;16 Michael Cole After the first week, I think we were down to eight. After the second week. I had to let a couple people go just because they weren't picking up. 00;10;46;16 - 00;10;52;09 Michael Cole So we finished the class with three people, and out of those three people, only one person passed their drug test. 00;10;52;11 - 00;11;01;05 Craig Andrews Oh. Yeah. Oh Holy cow. It's like, wow. 00;11;01;05 - 00;11;12;11 Craig Andrews So gulp of thoughts one. Yeah, the ladders are surprising. So I used to live in Greensborough, okay. And I had a single story. 00;11;12;11 - 00;11;20;08 Craig Andrews But it had a vaulted ceiling in the back of the house, and it was a little bit off the ground there. I remember going up to change. 00;11;20;08 - 00;11;33;07 Craig Andrews Had a spotlight up there. Oh my goodness. I mean, I've repelled and I've, you know, done things like that. But I started going up that ladder, the ladders a little rickety and what have you, it gave me the heebie jeebies. 00;11;33;10 - 00;11;44;07 Michael Cole Yeah. And I mean, think about some of our guys go on boom lifts that are the like the really narrow ones that up and outside. And if a little bit of breeze hits, I mean, I think sway in it's if you're not scared of heights, 00;11;44;07 - 00;11;50;14 Michael Cole not all of our job sites require that. And not all the trade with even within what we do require that, but it's definitely part of it. 00;11;50;14 - 00;11;52;28 Michael Cole You're going to be on a ladder at some point in time. 00;11;53;01 - 00;11;56;04 Craig Andrews Yeah. How do you screen for that now? 00;11;56;07 - 00;12;10;05 Michael Cole Oh man. We've come a long way. So that was back early 2018. I will say though, out of that class we did successfully pass the one guy. He worked for us for a long time. He actually got hired on full time by the client he went out with. So that was a huge success, which is a whole nother story. 00;12;10;08 - 00;12;17;01 Michael Cole I didn't even know what staffing was. Even when we were doing the training, I thought maybe I would just get paid like a one off fee for this person. 00;12;17;01 - 00;12;28;06 Michael Cole But yeah. So after that class, we, we learned as anyone does, you, you kind of got to just put your product out to the world and hope for the best and even at this time, I wasn't expecting this to be a full time gig ever. 00;12;28;06 - 00;12;31;10 Michael Cole I didn't expect it to take off now, like where we're at. 00;12;31;10 - 00;12;42;28 Michael Cole But we just kept using every training class we did to kind of vet. Okay, based on that, now, as we advertise, when we talk to people, hey, these are the things if you're interested in working with your hands, if you've worked with your hands in the past, have you? 00;12;42;28 - 00;12;50;15 Michael Cole And then once they showed interest, we hit them with the qualifications. Like, are you scared of heights? Are you colorblind? Is another one that we didn't think about. 00;12;50;15 - 00;12;58;27 Michael Cole So there's a lot of things within the trades, just about anything can be taught. That's what I love about the trades. Any of this. It's not rocket science. Any trade can be taught. 00;12;58;29 - 00;13;06;19 Michael Cole But you have to have the aptitude to learn. And then there are some actual genetic attributes that could go against you. 00;13;06;21 - 00;13;08;15 Craig Andrews Yeah. Why does the colorblind matter? 00;13;08;17 - 00;13;09;16 Michael Cole So we work with, 00;13;09;16 - 00;13;19;20 Michael Cole it's called the color code. So when you're punching down jacks and even fiber optic cables, they all have different strand colors. And you have to be able to see the right color to make sure you're making your connection correctly. 00;13;19;23 - 00;13;28;00 Craig Andrews Yeah, yeah, yeah, I went through avionics school in the Marine Corps and that was a quick way to get booted out was if you were well, you'd never get in if you're colorblind. 00;13;28;00 - 00;13;44;22 Michael Cole Yeah. So we've actually had I've talked to two people that have had successful careers colorblind doing this. But the only reason we found out about is because once again, on our next class, we had someone that was colorblind and they weren't doing their terminations correctly. And I was like, something's not right. Like, this kid's sharp. He gets it. 00;13;44;22 - 00;13;55;02 Michael Cole And finally we're like, this isn't working. He's like, well, yeah, that color, right? There's green. And we're like, no, it's not. It's blue. And then it hit. And then I was like, oh, well, let's add that to the list. I asked about. 00;13;55;04 - 00;14;02;29 Craig Andrews Wow. So what was your second class like? So first class you start with ten, finish with three. Only one passes a drug test. 00;14;03;01 - 00;14;10;29 Michael Cole Yes. So second class was similar in size because we found that like anything over ten was just going to be too, too many people for our training. 00;14;10;29 - 00;14;14;25 Michael Cole And we actually said, screw this two week nonsense. Let's shorten it. 00;14;14;25 - 00;14;16;25 Michael Cole We actually went to two full days. 00;14;16;25 - 00;14;20;12 Michael Cole We did a Friday. Saturday. I just took PTO from my other job, 00;14;20;12 - 00;14;31;15 Michael Cole and then gave up a little bit of my weekend time, and we found it was a lot better, too, because throughout two weeks, if you're only doing an hour at a time, like people, attention span kind of gets lost. 00;14;31;16 - 00;14;40;24 Michael Cole And these are very basic minimal skills. They need it anyway. So rock it out in two days and then try to get them a job as fast as possible, as was kind of the goal there. 00;14;40;24 - 00;14;42;00 Michael Cole And that class was good. We had, 00;14;42;00 - 00;14;47;25 Michael Cole I think we had ten people and only seven actually showed up, which is common, 00;14;47;25 - 00;14;48;08 Michael Cole now. 00;14;48;14 - 00;15;01;21 Michael Cole So that class was pretty good. I think we got five out to work after that one. But what was really interesting is after that class, what happened next was I started getting phone calls and emails because I started really small just in the in Charlotte, North Carolina. 00;15;01;21 - 00;15;06;21 Michael Cole I started just getting phone calls and emails like, hey, these texts are working out well, this is great. 00;15;06;21 - 00;15;26;13 Michael Cole Glad we could use you. But now I need people with way more experience, like things that you won't be able to train them on. So can you just go find me those people to. And I was like, oh wait. I was like, I might be able to make some money doing this, you know, because this was just supposed to be side hustle fun, trying to get kids involved and, you know, give all their avenues for folks. 00;15;26;13 - 00;15;29;08 Michael Cole And then it kind of hit me like, oh, I might be onto something here. 00;15;29;10 - 00;15;41;29 Craig Andrews Yeah. So when you play somebody, the traditional staffing model is or headhunting model is like a 20 or 30%, 00;15;41;29 - 00;15;48;15 Craig Andrews of the first year's compensation. Yep. Where where are you falling? Are you at like 20 or you at 30? 00;15;48;22 - 00;15;55;08 Michael Cole Yeah. So we were somewhere between 15 and 20 depending. And we've got some really cool, unique ways that we break out that chunks of 00;15;55;08 - 00;16;00;09 Michael Cole the problem with traditional staffing and it's kind of gotten a black eye in the trades. Right? Because, 00;16;00;09 - 00;16;06;15 Michael Cole the approach and the approach I took to because I, you know, you model off what you know and what you've seen until you know better. 00;16;06;15 - 00;16;07;04 Michael Cole Right? 00;16;07;04 - 00;16;24;08 Michael Cole And so we were going down the traditional route, which, by the way, on our first class, I had no clue what staffing even meant. Like I said, I just wanted a finder's fee, like $300 for training. Somebody was what I was trying to get. And my buddy Jeff was like, no, no, this is staffing. Now. You need to go get workman's comp and like all this stuff. 00;16;24;08 - 00;16;27;27 Michael Cole And he kind of showed me the like the ins and outs of like what was needed. 00;16;27;27 - 00;16;34;09 Michael Cole And so I got all that real quick because then he wanted to hire me and I was like, okay, I get paid an hourly rate on this guy, like, this is great. 00;16;34;09 - 00;16;46;03 Michael Cole And so what I learned though, from traditional staffing is they have recruiters, is banging the phone all day, and they're finding people you know, from an hourly rate, putting their bill rate on it and just hoping they show up on day one on the site. 00;16;46;03 - 00;16;50;06 Michael Cole A lot of times the clients aren't meeting them. They're not seeing them. They're not doing anything. 00;16;50;06 - 00;16;56;18 Michael Cole And we did that for about six months or so once I hired some people. Finally, as this took off and, 00;16;56;18 - 00;17;01;26 Michael Cole it's a terrible moment because you're hoping someone shows up. So we went to video calls, 00;17;01;26 - 00;17;07;21 Michael Cole about four years ago now, and no one in our industry is doing this currently the way we do it. 00;17;07;24 - 00;17;09;07 Michael Cole Or at all for what I know. 00;17;09;07 - 00;17;19;00 Michael Cole And so we started recording video interviews. We lost about 40% of our applicants because now we interview them twice. We do a phone screen, video screen, and then we ask our clients to interview them. 00;17;19;00 - 00;17;20;08 Michael Cole And it's been a game changer. 00;17;20;08 - 00;17;26;17 Michael Cole And so our model has evolved both from how we screen the text to also that helps us figure out, like, what are they really worth? 00;17;26;17 - 00;17;34;20 Michael Cole Because that's the next thing. Obviously, if you're a staffing company, you want to get them paid the most money possible. So your margins go up, either a higher, 00;17;34;20 - 00;17;39;26 Michael Cole contract fee for a direct hire or a higher percentage on a contract to higher, 00;17;39;26 - 00;17;43;16 Michael Cole so we really try to get them in the ballpark of what their pay rate should be, 00;17;43;16 - 00;17;45;04 Michael Cole based on their skill set. 00;17;45;06 - 00;17;56;14 Michael Cole And then we, we try to use a good margin markup based on territories and where we should be, but we're not the cheapest, that's for sure, because of the vetting we have to do up front. 00;17;56;16 - 00;18;00;23 Craig Andrews Yeah. Do you drug test on the front end. 00;18;00;25 - 00;18;25;05 Michael Cole So what we do is we drag in background check everybody, but we don't do that until we get the green light. So like if I sent you a candidate and you're like, I'm really interested, I want to bring him all and I want him to start Monday or start Monday. We'll drag in background check at that time and let you know, like, hey, pending this coming back, we can start on Monday just because it's such a cost and we would be trucking background check, we'd be wasting money left and right. 00;18;25;08 - 00;18;29;12 Craig Andrews Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's. Yeah. And it's it's, 00;18;29;12 - 00;18;37;13 Craig Andrews I have a buddy out in, in the Denver area who does drug testing, you know, and he works with companies that have, 00;18;37;13 - 00;18;38;22 Craig Andrews drivers with CDL. 00;18;38;24 - 00;18;39;29 Michael Cole Okay. Yeah. 00;18;40;01 - 00;18;48;18 Craig Andrews And if there's ever an incident, he has to be on the scene, do a drug test, and, 00;18;48;18 - 00;18;57;05 Craig Andrews Yeah. And it's. Yeah, it's it's expensive. I mean, heck, for him to do now, he's doing, like, emergency service drug test, but, 00;18;57;05 - 00;19;04;21 Craig Andrews for him to get in the car and go to a scene and do a drug test, that's two, three, $400. 00;19;04;24 - 00;19;09;05 Michael Cole Yeah, it racks up. And luckily for us, we do, like, ten panels, like, really quick, rapid. 00;19;09;05 - 00;19;11;13 Michael Cole The background checks are what are what's rough. 00;19;11;13 - 00;19;17;28 Michael Cole And we ask everybody, can you pass a pre-employment drug and background screen? Right. They all say yes for the most part. 00;19;17;28 - 00;19;21;23 Michael Cole Few people actually tell the truth. And it's funny, the ones that actually are like, oh, yeah. 00;19;21;23 - 00;19;39;01 Michael Cole Hey, by the way, I got a little bit of trouble. I had a misdemeanor. The ones that actually own up to it. You'd be amazed that they actually get placed like clients and us personally, like we would rather you be upfront, tell the truth. Because what happens is, if you say you can, we run your background and you have something, then you lot like you, you knew about that. 00;19;39;01 - 00;19;44;04 Michael Cole Like there's no way you didn't know you had a charge on your record from a year ago or even a pending charge, you know, 00;19;44;04 - 00;19;54;16 Michael Cole and so we try to, like, have that talk with people, but you'd be amazed. And then now with marijuana becoming legal in certain states, there's some blurred lines about, you know, what you can and can't allow. 00;19;54;16 - 00;20;01;04 Michael Cole And so it's just a it's just the drug and background world has been a huge kind of culture shock for me. 00;20;01;04 - 00;20;08;06 Michael Cole And something that we actually preach now when we get to talk to younger generations about the trades, it's like one mistake will follow your life. 00;20;08;08 - 00;20;24;18 Craig Andrews Yeah, but like what you said about coming clean, because I, I believe, I believe we're a society that believes in giving people second chances and and we all have something, something in our background. I mean, I should have a record. I, 00;20;24;18 - 00;20;26;03 Craig Andrews I mean, heck, one time, 00;20;26;03 - 00;20;29;21 Craig Andrews this was before I was in the Marines. I was my brother and I went down to the beach. 00;20;29;21 - 00;20;34;02 Craig Andrews We and we were walking down the boardwalk with little cups of beer and, 00;20;34;02 - 00;20;47;05 Craig Andrews a cop has me by my arm and taking them back to the cruiser. I'm getting ready to be booked for underage drinking, drinking in public, all sorts of crap. I yanked my arm out of his hand and start running and got away from him. 00;20;47;07 - 00;20;50;04 Craig Andrews I mean, had I been slower runner. 00;20;50;06 - 00;20;50;26 Michael Cole I like. 00;20;50;29 - 00;20;52;18 Craig Andrews I have a record. 00;20;52;21 - 00;20;59;05 Michael Cole Well, I always say the usually the only difference between someone with a record and someone without a record is they got caught. 00;20;59;08 - 00;20;59;16 Craig Andrews Yeah. 00;20;59;22 - 00;21;02;12 Michael Cole I mean, everyone's got a past, so. 00;21;02;14 - 00;21;06;03 Craig Andrews Yeah. And I think that's, you know, it's such an important point. 00;21;06;03 - 00;21;18;10 Craig Andrews It's in creating that environment where you can say, hey, look, nobody's perfect, come clean. Yeah. You know, come clean. And yeah, just kind of, 00;21;18;10 - 00;21;24;07 Craig Andrews in dealing with customers, this is kind of where it gets in my world. I mean, I guess what were my my, 00;21;24;07 - 00;21;25;03 Craig Andrews my agency. 00;21;25;03 - 00;21;27;27 Craig Andrews We're imperfect, we make mistakes, and, 00;21;27;27 - 00;21;39;25 Craig Andrews and it always works out best when we're the one that goes to the client first and tell, tell them. And don't make a bunch of B.S. excuses. Just say, hey, we screwed up. Here's what happened. Here's what we're doing to fix it. 00;21;39;27 - 00;21;51;15 Michael Cole Yeah, and that's what I tell my team that all the time. Like, we're human. We're going to make mistakes. The thing is, the faster you own it and come with solutions, generally speaking, nine out of ten times you're fine. 00;21;51;17 - 00;21;52;13 Craig Andrews Yeah. 00;21;52;15 - 00;21;54;08 Michael Cole And it and move on. 00;21;54;10 - 00;21;58;18 Craig Andrews Oh I had a I had an instinct years ago where 00;21;58;18 - 00;22;00;04 Craig Andrews we had a project. It was 00;22;00;04 - 00;22;17;20 Craig Andrews it was a website project. We usually don't do website projects, you know, we don't build them. We have somebody. It works. You know, we have a sub that that builds and we architect and that kind of information structure. And this had a special API that was supposed to interface with HubSpot. 00;22;17;23 - 00;22;23;24 Craig Andrews And we launched it goes live and it breaks. And I call my, you know, my, 00;22;23;24 - 00;22;40;19 Craig Andrews web guy. I'm like, hey, this is broken. Came fix it. And he fixes it. And then two weeks, I tell the client it's fixed. 2 or 3 weeks later, breaks again, go through the same routine, breaks a third time. And so we're finally at the point where it's like, no, I mean, I'm like, 00;22;40;19 - 00;22;42;01 Craig Andrews I'm like furious. 00;22;42;02 - 00;22;49;06 Craig Andrews I had to find out. I figured out why this kept happening, and that's a different story. But I walked into the client's, 00;22;49;06 - 00;23;02;02 Craig Andrews office and said, hey, I'm going to give you a quick presentation, the first slide and the biggest font I could possibly fit on that slide was, we screwed up. I mean, this had been dragging on for a couple months. 00;23;02;02 - 00;23;16;13 Craig Andrews I'm embarrassed. And by the end of the meeting, the client, smiling, is thankful. Happy. Happy to work with me. Yeah, but the first slide real simple. We screwed up. 00;23;16;15 - 00;23;26;04 Michael Cole Yeah. And this is one of the toughest parts about the industry we're in. Is that when we screw up we can generally fix just about anything we screw up. Right. 00;23;26;04 - 00;23;38;11 Michael Cole And so we'll own it and we'll come with suggestions. The hardest part about this is we are working with such an unpredictable product now that in our world there's certain times that, like, we can't fix some of it and we didn't screw up. 00;23;38;11 - 00;23;53;08 Michael Cole In fact, we did everything we possibly could to get someone to the job site, have them show up. I mean, we've paid for people's gas and tools and everything else you could think of to get them to the job site, and they still don't show up and that and that's a tough one. And our clients now know that's part of the nature of the beast. 00;23;53;08 - 00;24;07;17 Michael Cole Right? Like there's a reason why staffing exists in the trades because it's hard to find good people. So they'd rather us risk it and hope for the best. And they have to do all the homework and back end and drag them back around and do all that on their own heavy lifting. So, 00;24;07;17 - 00;24;15;14 Michael Cole that has been the one part about this career path that has really been a hard pill to swallow at times, because I pride myself on my work. 00;24;15;14 - 00;24;20;28 Michael Cole Like if I mess up, I'm going to own it. If you give me an opportunity, I'm going to give it everything I have. 00;24;20;28 - 00;24;32;11 Michael Cole But when you're relying on other people to show up and show out, it's hard. So we've just changed our motto to, you can lead a horse to water. You can't make them drink. So as long as we do everything in our control, if they don't do it on their end, and 00;24;32;11 - 00;24;34;14 Michael Cole that's we did our job. 00;24;34;17 - 00;24;54;27 Craig Andrews Yeah. How do you manage that emotionally? Because that that's hard for me. I mean, when I yeah, because I have my standard for where I work and I think, I think any leader has probably has a higher standard than their team can keep up with. But when there's such a gap, it's how do you manage that emotionally? 00;24;54;29 - 00;24;58;15 Michael Cole Yeah, it's it's tough to be honest with you. 00;24;58;15 - 00;25;25;00 Michael Cole It doesn't get easier. Like it's never something that I've, I've been able to adjust to. And I think our team at times gets pretty bad because, I mean, we've had instances where one person doesn't show up, we backfill, and they don't show up. We've had it where it's happened three times for whatever rhyme or reason, and it's just like it almost just feels like it's not meant to be, you know, like just everything that we worked our butts off to make this happen, fix it, fix it again, and then these people don't show up. 00;25;25;00 - 00;25;37;13 Michael Cole So it's hard. And so what I try to do is just remind my team like it is not your fault. Like if you've done everything you can possibly do, it is not your fault. And we try to keep things lively with teams, messages and things like that. 00;25;37;13 - 00;25;41;22 Michael Cole I've even gone out of my way to be like, take the rest of the day off, like, today's is not your day. 00;25;41;22 - 00;25;59;23 Michael Cole Like, you know, like we'll find you tomorrow. Maybe because it is. It's it's a grind like these, like my team works their butts off for an unpredictable product. And they could say all the right things, do all the right things to Canada, could say and do all the right things. Come Monday morning, they call text. We've even had it where we call a Monday morning. 00;25;59;23 - 00;26;16;07 Michael Cole Hey, you on the way? The job site? Yep. I'll be there in 20 minutes. Whatever. They don't show up. And we're like, what happened? Like, did you vanish off the face of the planet? And then they do. They don't call us back. They don't. Texas. We have no clue what happened to them. We'll call their emergency contacts. So it's a grind and it doesn't get easier. 00;26;16;07 - 00;26;30;11 Michael Cole And that's why I when I interview people to come work here, I make sure they understand that part. Because to me, that's the worst part about staffing is just you can do everything in your power and it could still go horribly wrong. 00;26;30;13 - 00;26;35;02 Craig Andrews Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, heck, I was telling you in the green room, I, 00;26;35;02 - 00;26;42;09 Craig Andrews yeah, I have some painters working on that on the house, and they told me, they said, 00;26;42;09 - 00;26;52;17 Craig Andrews for yesterday. Oh, yeah, we'll be there around eight, 8 a.m.. And I knew not to expect that I might. My brain recalibrate. I was like, okay, that means nine. 00;26;52;19 - 00;27;03;24 Craig Andrews They show up at quarter 11 and so yesterday and say, hey, what time are you coming tomorrow? I won't be there around 8 a.m.. It's 9:45 and they're not here. And, 00;27;03;24 - 00;27;19;21 Craig Andrews it's you're right. I mean, that's there's an unpredictability. How do you how how do your clients manage? I mean, let me ask let me ask it this way. 00;27;19;24 - 00;27;29;04 Craig Andrews Do the people that make it through your program, do they own a watch and do they actually keep track of time, or is that something that. 00;27;29;06 - 00;27;32;10 Michael Cole Maybe that should be a qualification question we ask from now on? 00;27;32;10 - 00;27;41;01 Michael Cole Yeah. I mean, I always joke like, I wish I could make like shock collars for human beings, just like it doesn't stop beeping until you get to the job site, you know? 00;27;41;01 - 00;27;44;27 Michael Cole But yeah, I mean, at some point, too, you have to treat everybody like adults, right? 00;27;44;27 - 00;27;45;24 Michael Cole And so, 00;27;45;24 - 00;28;01;05 Michael Cole this is where I think staffing has got a black eyes because a lot of times companies similar to ours will just keep giving people chances like, oh, that didn't work out. Let's get them over here. Maybe it'll work out. Maybe. And so you send one bad candidate to ten, 15 different companies and it just starts getting. 00;28;01;09 - 00;28;04;20 Michael Cole So we keep a very robust CRM with notes. 00;28;04;20 - 00;28;10;11 Michael Cole And we and we keep them very accurate. So if someone does us wrong, we don't allow second chances. 00;28;10;11 - 00;28;13;16 Michael Cole You know, we try to give second chances to people that maybe have a, 00;28;13;16 - 00;28;20;22 Michael Cole a slight record or maybe, you know, they were late to an interview. Whatever. We can have those conversations openly and honestly. 00;28;20;22 - 00;28;26;20 Michael Cole But the second that you stop doing what you said you were going to do, we end that relationship. It's just that cut and dry. 00;28;26;22 - 00;28;27;22 Craig Andrews Yeah. 00;28;27;24 - 00;28;28;01 Michael Cole Because 00;28;28;01 - 00;28;35;20 Michael Cole we all are adults here. We all have jobs to do. And there's people out there that are wanting to do it and willing to do it. And that's where I 00;28;35;20 - 00;28;40;22 Michael Cole was trying to get more green. People back in the industry is what we really want to focus on. We're getting ready to launch a, 00;28;40;22 - 00;28;45;22 Michael Cole virtual training, which I've been against because I think hands on is the way to go, but we're going to have, 00;28;45;22 - 00;28;51;21 Michael Cole a really cool platform, and we're hoping to roll by the end of this month where we just did this in Virginia. 00;28;51;28 - 00;29;00;06 Michael Cole We had eight people. Out of the eight people, we got five place because they went through a week long training. This is going to be more virtual, more like a two day training, 00;29;00;06 - 00;29;04;01 Michael Cole but jam packed with information. They're going to have hands on exercises. 00;29;04;01 - 00;29;09;01 Michael Cole It's going to be awesome. And we there's this a huge market of people out there that want to get into our industry. 00;29;09;06 - 00;29;19;09 Michael Cole And we found that those people generally show up a lot more because they want to get in and learn, and where they take their career from there is up to them. And we try to roadmap that for them as best as possible. 00;29;19;09 - 00;29;23;27 Michael Cole But we got to find some fresh blood, some new people to come in the industry to, to try to revamp it. 00;29;23;27 - 00;29;25;21 Michael Cole We got a lot of retreads. 00;29;25;23 - 00;29;30;12 Craig Andrews Yeah. Well, Michael, this has been fascinating. And, 00;29;30;12 - 00;29;36;10 Craig Andrews I mean, you're definitely tackling a tough problem that I love the way you put the unpredictable product. Yeah. And, 00;29;36;10 - 00;29;37;15 Craig Andrews how can, 00;29;37;15 - 00;29;39;00 Craig Andrews how can folks reach you? 00;29;39;02 - 00;29;40;06 Michael Cole Yeah, I'm the best way, 00;29;40;06 - 00;29;43;00 Michael Cole if you wanted to reach out to me direct is LinkedIn. 00;29;43;00 - 00;29;48;14 Michael Cole But anything you want to learn about our company is our website. Just next level. Technician.com. 00;29;48;16 - 00;29;52;09 Craig Andrews All right. Well, thanks. Thanks for coming on Layers and Legacies. 00;29;52;11 - 00;29;55;05 Michael Cole Thanks, Greg. Talk to you soon. 00;29;55;05 - 00;30;21;29 Craig Andrews This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this 00;30;21;29 - 00;30;23;24 Craig Andrews episode on social media. 00;30;23;26 - 00;30;47;06 Craig Andrews Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest. Tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything. 00;30;47;08 - 00;30;55;13 Craig Andrews Please go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up. Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me. 00;30;55;13 - 00;32;57;18 Craig Andrews It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. 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