Milam Miller, founder of Be Confident and Kind and author of The Charisma Craft, joins Craig Andrews to challenge everything we think we know about charisma. A former executive for a billionaire sports team owner and affectionately nicknamed the “real-life Ted Lasso,” Milam shares how charisma isn’t innate—it’s a skill any leader can develop.

Through bold stories and sharp insight, Milam breaks down his ABCs of Charisma: Authenticity, Boldness, and Curiosity. He reveals how top leaders like Jack Welch and Sam Walton mastered connection through confidence and kindness—not through dominance or ego. Whether it’s helping sales teams outperform AI or guiding executives to connect instead of command, Milam’s approach is rooted in relational leadership, not transactional tactics.

This episode is packed with practical tools for modern leaders who want to elevate influence, build trust, and create high-performing teams that thrive on human connection.

Want to learn more about Milam Miller's work? Check out their website at https://beconfidentandkind.com.

Connect with Milam Miller on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/milam-miller-bck.

Key Points with Time Stamps

• [00:01:00] Meet Milam Miller – Author, coach, and the real-life “Ted Lasso.”
  
  

• [00:02:14] Charisma Is a Skill – Milam explains why charisma isn’t inborn.

• [00:04:35] What Billionaires Teach Us About Leadership – Lessons from a private team owner.

• [00:06:04] Two Pillars of Charisma – Competence and warmth build influence.

• [00:07:03] Charisma Is About Others – The best leaders focus outward, not inward.

• [00:10:00] Confidence Means Admitting 'I Don’t Know' – How vulnerability builds trust.

• [00:13:17] From Connection to Disconnection – Why Slack and Teams can't replace real leadership.

• [00:15:00] Gender Differences in Confidence – What shifts at age 40 for women in the workplace.

• [00:17:20] Redefining Charisma – It’s not looks or followers—it’s genuine human connection.

• [00:19:07] The Sam Walton Donut Strategy – Leading from the truck depot, not the corner office.

• [00:20:06] Charisma = A Skill, Not a Trait – Practice it like any other competency.

• [00:24:45] Sales Success Needs Charisma – Marketing and sales thrive when aligned through human connection.

• [00:27:38] Why AI Can’t Replace Sales Pros – Emotional intelligence still wins.

• [00:34:32] Are You Real? – Why being unmistakably human is your biggest asset in the AI era.

• [00:35:39] Where to Find Milam Miller – Book info and how to connect.

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;00;58;01
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Milam Miller. He is the founder of Be Confident and Kind.

00;00;58;01 - 00;01;11;15
Craig Andrews
He's the author of The Charisma Craft a modern Leadership Guide to Enhance Your Risk Factor. My alum has worked for a billionaire sports team owner. Where,

00;01;11;15 - 00;01;20;05
Craig Andrews
over in Italy and where he developed a lot of his skills and charisma and picked up the name the the real life Ted Lasso.

00;01;20;07 - 00;01;32;13
Craig Andrews
And so he runs a leadership development firm that helps sales leaders unlock charisma, emotional intelligence, and authentic influence. Why? Long? Welcome.

00;01;32;15 - 00;01;37;21
Milam Miller
Thanks, Craig. I appreciate you having me. Happy to be here with a fellow Texas resident.

00;01;37;23 - 00;01;43;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I grew up in the northeast, but I married a Texan, and they seem to accept me here.

00;01;43;19 - 00;01;51;21
Milam Miller
So you're a smart man marrying a Texan. And yet there's some old saying, like, I wasn't born in Texas, but I got there as quickly as I could, so.

00;01;51;23 - 00;01;54;05
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Did you grow up in Texas?

00;01;54;07 - 00;01;55;26
Milam Miller
I did, I'm a proud Longhorn.

00;01;55;26 - 00;01;57;29
Milam Miller
Grew up in the central Texas area,

00;01;57;29 - 00;02;03;05
Milam Miller
between Austin and San Antonio. And funny enough, got a finance degree. And here I am,

00;02;03;05 - 00;02;05;28
Milam Miller
helping leaders become more effective at,

00;02;05;28 - 00;02;07;12
Milam Miller
at leading people.

00;02;07;14 - 00;02;14;27
Craig Andrews
Wow. Yeah, because, I mean, often the finance folks, they're not the most charismatic.

00;02;14;29 - 00;02;22;15
Milam Miller
Well, I would argue we all have charisma. You haven't. Craig, I have it. Every human on this planet has it. If they choose to believe they have it.

00;02;22;15 - 00;02;32;25
Milam Miller
And therein lies a fundamental fact in my new book, which is charisma is actually a skill, meaning anyone can develop it. It's not an inborn personality trait.

00;02;32;25 - 00;02;33;28
Milam Miller
But I do think you're on to something.

00;02;33;28 - 00;02;43;17
Milam Miller
I think finance bros. And sometimes they get labeled on social media unfairly or fairly. Depends on who the who, the the judge is. The verdict still out, but,

00;02;43;17 - 00;02;49;09
Milam Miller
they could certainly maybe enhance their their warmth or the kindness factor to charisma,

00;02;49;09 - 00;02;51;20
Milam Miller
which we can dive into a little bit more.

00;02;51;22 - 00;03;00;09
Craig Andrews
Well, it's, you know, one of the things I do every now and then as I help people prep to get booked on podcasts and the,

00;03;00;09 - 00;03;14;08
Craig Andrews
and I mean, you have like, a gazillion executive coaches, a gazillion CFO, I mean, name the thing and there's like a thousand people out there doing exactly that, and they're all applying to be on the podcast.

00;03;14;10 - 00;03;23;09
Craig Andrews
And I Thomas, you know, if you want to get on, you have to pull out something interesting about yourself. And and I tell people,

00;03;23;09 - 00;03;35;18
Craig Andrews
this is and this is, you know, so you may be ruining one way stage jokes. I said, look, everybody has something interesting in their background. It's there. You have to look for it. Yeah. With one exception.

00;03;35;21 - 00;03;40;09
Craig Andrews
Accountants. You're irredeemably boring. Sorry.

00;03;40;12 - 00;03;48;01
Milam Miller
I love this absolute poor accountants. They. It's not too late to change your mind. CPAs, you can abort. Abort the mission.

00;03;48;04 - 00;03;50;29
Craig Andrews
Well, what's what's funny is even,

00;03;50;29 - 00;04;10;24
Craig Andrews
you know. So I wrote an about us page for a CPA, and for a long time, it stood as my wife judges those, we do a different style about us page. And for a long time, his was the standard of. Does it measure up to Cameron's about us page. And so we managed to make an accountant interesting.

00;04;11;01 - 00;04;37;15
Craig Andrews
So it's possible and obviously it worked out for you. Yeah. But the, the, the thing I'm a little bit interested in this whole billionaire sports owner you want to talk about. You want to talk about people that are cut from different cloth, people that have charisma. I don't know what happens on the road to billionaire if it's a filter, if it's a development process, but I can't think of a single billionaire.

00;04;37;15 - 00;04;40;02
Craig Andrews
That's not phenomenally fascinating.

00;04;40;05 - 00;04;41;18
Milam Miller
Fascinating. Yes.

00;04;41;18 - 00;04;53;02
Milam Miller
Charismatic I don't know because I don't know all of them. But I would argue that they probably have developed some craft that has brought them success as we define it in Western society.

00;04;53;02 - 00;04;58;10
Milam Miller
And it's giving them a platform. Ultimately when you have wealth of that level, you have,

00;04;58;10 - 00;05;01;04
Milam Miller
a new platform through which to operate from.

00;05;01;06 - 00;05;03;29
Milam Miller
And I say that because, many sports team owners,

00;05;03;29 - 00;05;25;06
Milam Miller
let's take Mark Cuban, for example. Right. He was successful in his career. I believe he rode the.com boom, if I'm not mistaken, and he's done a number of things since then. But Mark Cuban wasn't born into that level of privilege. Mark Cuban worked at it worked hard. Right place, right time, a little bit of luck, all those things.

00;05;25;12 - 00;05;32;13
Milam Miller
And then he used his platform by owning the Dallas Mavericks to feed other business interests. So I,

00;05;32;13 - 00;05;36;12
Milam Miller
I know that in the case of my experience, I had an owner who was a little bit more private,

00;05;36;12 - 00;05;40;05
Milam Miller
a little bit more enigmatic to a certain extent. And,

00;05;40;05 - 00;05;45;22
Milam Miller
but at the same time, I learned a lot from him about his charisma craft, which is uniquely different than mine.

00;05;45;22 - 00;05;49;01
Milam Miller
He also grew up in the northeast, like you. So he had a little bit more of a,

00;05;49;01 - 00;05;54;07
Milam Miller
a forcefulness to him, as opposed to a playfulness which I choose to embrace.

00;05;54;10 - 00;06;04;02
Craig Andrews
Interesting. So are you saying that you can be pursuing charisma and playful? And, Chris, is that a is that a choice somewhere in this road?

00;06;04;05 - 00;06;12;08
Milam Miller
Yeah. So charisma is not a black or white thing. It doesn't look like just forceful charisma or just playful charisma.

00;06;12;08 - 00;06;31;29
Milam Miller
Charisma is actually really in the eye of the beholder. And what I've learned based on research, pioneering research out of Princeton, it's called the social stereotype content model, is that people who have two skills, number one, high competence, meaning they know what they're talking about, they're not full of B.S. and two, warmth.

00;06;31;29 - 00;06;34;16
Milam Miller
In other words, they lead with a lot of empathy,

00;06;34;16 - 00;06;40;16
Milam Miller
kindness, which I touched on earlier. Those are the people that are perceived as highly charismatic.

00;06;40;16 - 00;06;44;13
Milam Miller
We're attracted to them. They have this magnetic or,

00;06;44;13 - 00;06;48;09
Milam Miller
or energy that is just buzzing. And what I found in my own,

00;06;48;09 - 00;06;54;21
Milam Miller
experiences on this planet is that those individuals typically don't think about me, me, me, like I'm hot stuff.

00;06;54;23 - 00;07;03;08
Milam Miller
There's usually a focus on them, them, them. And they want to get to know crack. They want to get to know them. They make the other person feel like they're the most important person in the room.

00;07;03;08 - 00;07;13;27
Milam Miller
So they're not trying to prove a point by being overly competent and be a know it all. And they're not nice or a pushover and just, yes, seeing you to death, they know that fine line.

00;07;14;00 - 00;07;14;16
Milam Miller
So,

00;07;14;16 - 00;07;19;12
Milam Miller
the billionaire I worked for, he had a phenomenal charisma craft, like I said, uniquely his own,

00;07;19;12 - 00;07;27;00
Milam Miller
he could be playful at times, but when it was a boardroom setting, he was turning up the competence, turning down the warrant, if that makes sense.

00;07;27;03 - 00;07;30;14
Craig Andrews
Turning. Turning down, turning up the competence. Turning down the what?

00;07;30;16 - 00;07;38;14
Milam Miller
The warmth in a in a boardroom setting. Yeah. More forceful, more direct and interesting.

00;07;38;16 - 00;07;40;04
Craig Andrews
You know, I'm in a,

00;07;40;04 - 00;07;44;16
Craig Andrews
a mastermind, and I didn't realize it, but I,

00;07;44;16 - 00;08;01;15
Craig Andrews
I got a reputation for just asking, you know, like said, from the perspective of the one being question, I was asking these just drilling questions, and I wasn't trying to be. I mean, I was one trying to play by on the spot. These were just questions I had.

00;08;01;18 - 00;08;02;02
Craig Andrews
And,

00;08;02;02 - 00;08;12;02
Craig Andrews
and somebody made some casual comment of, you know, I sustain the questioning of Craig. And I was like, that's not what I want said about me. I'm, I'm actually

00;08;12;02 - 00;08;20;26
Craig Andrews
we were working an issue. They had them just asking questions because I'm trying to understand their problem with the hopes that maybe I have some idea that could be helpful.

00;08;20;29 - 00;08;26;22
Milam Miller
Interesting. What do you think was going on there? I'm curious. Do you think they were perceiving you as as,

00;08;26;22 - 00;08;37;17
Milam Miller
When I hear the gantlet of Craig just say, being incessant or overly persistent, perhaps. What what was your perception of their perception of you?

00;08;37;20 - 00;08;58;26
Craig Andrews
Well. Sometimes when you ask questions, it exposes a nakedness. And I'm sure you've had this I've had it happen to me for sure where somebody will ask me a question and in a split second I feel like the dumbest person in the world, you know, they, they're like,

00;08;58;26 - 00;09;01;07
Craig Andrews
did you, you know, well, I noticed you trip.

00;09;01;07 - 00;09;08;07
Craig Andrews
Did you, wear your shoes tied like. No, they weren't tied. You know,

00;09;08;07 - 00;09;30;29
Craig Andrews
but the way I process that is just like. I'm really glad they asked me that question. I'm a little bit ashamed that I didn't ask that before, but I'm nevertheless thankful that they did that. Yeah. And I'm wondering if some of what I'm picking up on is, you know, sometimes that at least for me, some of the most valuable people in my life are the people to ask me questions.

00;09;30;29 - 00;09;36;27
Craig Andrews
I know that I will know the answer to. I just haven't taken the time to ask myself that question. Yeah.

00;09;37;00 - 00;09;47;13
Milam Miller
Interesting. It's nice to have those friends that can, for lack of better term, push us, right? Or expose blinders or give us the, the,

00;09;47;13 - 00;09;50;13
Milam Miller
the encouragement or the,

00;09;50;13 - 00;10;00;17
Milam Miller
the belief that we do have the answers. Right. And like, you have agency to come up with a creative answer yourself. But I also think, Craig, it's okay to not know the answer to everything.

00;10;00;17 - 00;10;12;29
Milam Miller
Some of the most confident people I know are the first ones to say, I don't know the answer to that yet, and it's the power of yet that we live in a world with instantaneous information exchange. We can go and find the answer, right?

00;10;12;29 - 00;10;28;28
Milam Miller
We gonna have to fact check it. Like I might might get it wrong, but we we have so much information in our fingertips, and I find nothing more refreshing than a leader specifically that says I don't know the answer to that yet, but it seems important to you, and I'm willing to find out.

00;10;29;01 - 00;10;36;05
Craig Andrews
So one of the people, when I'm thinking about the questions kind of processing your question and, and we definitely want to tie this to charisma.

00;10;36;08 - 00;10;37;10
Milam Miller
Yeah.

00;10;37;13 - 00;10;41;27
Craig Andrews
So Jeff Immelt, former CEO of GE for sure. Jack Welch.

00;10;41;29 - 00;10;44;18
Milam Miller
Yeah, I write about him in my book, funny enough. Oh,

00;10;44;18 - 00;10;46;18
Milam Miller
both of those gentlemen.

00;10;46;20 - 00;10;53;09
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah. Well he talked about. So at one point as he was rising up in GE. Yeah. Jack put him in charge of the,

00;10;53;09 - 00;11;11;15
Craig Andrews
appliance division and he would fly in for like quarterly reviews with Jack and he'd sit down. Jack would just start asking questions and and Jeff was like, man, I just felt strip naked. And he was like, you know, one day, one time we wrapped up a meeting and Jack came up to me.

00;11;11;15 - 00;11;28;05
Craig Andrews
He's like, hey, you're doing really well. He's like, I didn't feel. I was like, are you the same person that just asked me all those questions in the room? Sure. But kind of tying it back, obviously Jack Walsh was charisma, charismatic. He was able to attract a lot of people.

00;11;28;05 - 00;11;32;25
Craig Andrews
Obviously Jeff Immelt was no wilting flower.

00;11;32;27 - 00;11;53;19
Craig Andrews
But in the moment in those questions, Jack, really he was just asking important questions about how Jeff was running the business. Yeah. Which made him strip bare a little bit strip naked. But then Jack came back and encouraged him to let him know, you're doing a great job. You have a tough job. You know, this is the tough division, right?

00;11;53;21 - 00;11;54;27
Milam Miller
Yeah. What that

00;11;54;27 - 00;12;10;07
Milam Miller
reveals to me or what's coming up for me. Rather, Craig, is a couple of things. Number one, it sounds like Jeff was not assuming positive intent from Jack. He was like, why is he interrogating me? Which in interrogation is totally different from curiosity,

00;12;10;07 - 00;12;16;07
Milam Miller
taking the lead. And so I think from Jack's perspective, he's like, I have an insatiable appetite for information.

00;12;16;07 - 00;12;23;23
Milam Miller
I'm so curious. This isn't an attack or an interrogation. It's just me gathering data or facts that,

00;12;23;23 - 00;12;45;29
Milam Miller
that his competence was probably a little too charged. And Jack could have maybe deployed a little bit more warmth to make the environment more convivial for Jeff to really open up and share. But it sounds like Jack did a little bit of damage control, maybe could sense that with his emotional intelligence to then after the fact, encourage him and say, hey, that that was a lot of questions.

00;12;45;29 - 00;12;50;29
Milam Miller
I just there's no other way to put it. Very matter of fact, and I think you're doing a great job. Keep it up.

00;12;51;02 - 00;12;53;18
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;12;53;20 - 00;13;17;01
Milam Miller
This happens all the time with the leaders I work with. And I think that the future of work that we are being confronted with right now, Craig, is one in which everyone is busy. Everyone is constantly getting a ping from an Apple Watch, from their phone, from their slack channel. Microsoft Teams pick your favorite connectivity tool in the issue is these connectivity tools.

00;13;17;01 - 00;13;20;21
Milam Miller
While there there was there was great intent behind them to keep us,

00;13;20;21 - 00;13;39;19
Milam Miller
aligned. Right. Alignment so important. We were talking before this about marketing perspectives versus sales perspectives. Marketing folks, sales folks use the analogy of cats and dogs. Well, let's stay in alignment over our slack channel. And ultimately what I think we've lost is connection. And that's why I wanted to write a book on human connection, not,

00;13;39;19 - 00;13;44;02
Milam Miller
go out and get another app or product that's a connectivity tool that will fall out of favor.

00;13;44;04 - 00;13;49;24
Milam Miller
Because really, what we need in the future of work is leaders who listen, truly listen, active listening,

00;13;49;24 - 00;14;04;16
Milam Miller
leaders who seek to understand Jack Welch, understanding Jeffrey's position in that unit, and leaders who validate, who say, like, I know you're the right he she they them for the job and they're empowering them to do what they do.

00;14;04;16 - 00;14;13;12
Craig Andrews
Well, yeah, yeah. So if you were to go back and coach Jack was a daunting task, no less.

00;14;13;12 - 00;14;17;08
Milam Miller
No kidding. Right.

00;14;17;10 - 00;14;24;15
Craig Andrews
How would you. What would you tell Jack? Hey, Jack, why don't you try doing this differently in the next meeting? What would you tell them?

00;14;24;18 - 00;14;45;18
Milam Miller
Well, I wouldn't start with that. Funny enough, Greg, I wouldn't tell them what to do differently. I would start with Jack. You're a good guy. You're a good Ole boy. Like, everyone likes being around you. From what I've read, heard, seen. Obviously this is. He's now left us posthumously. But if you're still alive, I'd say everyone likes you, Jack and Jack, you can be a little intense sometimes.

00;14;45;18 - 00;14;55;05
Milam Miller
Does that seem fair, or do you have a different perspective of yourself and really allow him to get curious about himself? It's one of the ABCs of charisma.

00;14;55;05 - 00;15;09;27
Milam Miller
The C standing for curiosity, and I would really want to equip him with, that acknowledgment, self acknowledgment, that power to say, what do you think is your impact currently in this organization?

00;15;10;00 - 00;15;21;08
Milam Miller
And then ask the question, can you live with that? Would you like to continue to have that impact, or do you want to change it? Do you want your impact to change or shift? And I'd be really curious what he would have to say.

00;15;21;10 - 00;15;33;03
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and kind of going back to the kind of Craigs gantlet of questions, I think it's I think they feel intense. You know, you're talking about the intensity. I think it feels intense to those. Yeah.

00;15;33;05 - 00;15;57;15
Milam Miller
Well, I think it's scary. I'll be rather vulnerable here. I think men probably have this fear more than women, although I don't want to speak for that population of men because of our ego, hubris, pride, whatever it may be. Right. Let's let's be real. Being stripped bare, naked or being exposed, there's this fear of like or men we're supposed to, like, be confident or supposed to be protectors.

00;15;57;15 - 00;15;59;22
Milam Miller
Like, we're hunters, like, you know,

00;15;59;22 - 00;16;09;27
Milam Miller
we we bring home, like, food for the herd. And there's a lot of, I think, evolutionary conditioning that now we're seeing the skills tip, we're seeing that,

00;16;09;27 - 00;16;13;08
Milam Miller
women are having higher earning power in the workplace. They're,

00;16;13;08 - 00;16;16;16
Milam Miller
having children later. They're not taking as much time for for,

00;16;16;16 - 00;16;19;02
Milam Miller
maternity leave or they're coming back rather,

00;16;19;02 - 00;16;32;06
Milam Miller
the most compelling research I found when I was writing my book is that at the age of 40, Craig, up until that point in men index, overconfident compared to women like they perceive themselves to be fit for jobs.

00;16;32;13 - 00;16;39;28
Milam Miller
But at the age of 40, the the graph starts to cross. Women tap into some level of self-efficacy that,

00;16;39;28 - 00;16;52;20
Milam Miller
I don't know if it's tied to a tipping point. I would love for Malcolm Gladwell to study this, many of them maybe becoming mothers. That gives them this added confidence. But that's when women start embodying the same level of confidence that men have.

00;16;52;23 - 00;17;00;06
Milam Miller
For if they go into the workforce at 20, 22, 20 years ahead of them, which is kind of mind boggling.

00;17;00;08 - 00;17;02;16
Craig Andrews
That's fascinating. I'd never heard that.

00;17;02;16 - 00;17;20;14
Craig Andrews
So. So let's kind let's kind come back to charisma. What how what is it? How do it and what is it? And if I don't have it, how do I get it?

00;17;20;17 - 00;17;48;26
Milam Miller
Sure. So let's define it. Charisma is two way human connection. I'm going to back up. I was taught Craig that charisma was one way attraction. You've got to look like JFK, like good looks, suave hair and, you know, very debonair and be a phenomenal orator, right? That's what charisma is. Tall, dark and handsome. Right. But that's charisma. That's not charisma.

00;17;48;28 - 00;18;01;20
Milam Miller
In especially I want to be sensitive to female listeners as well. Maybe you think charisma in the modern age is Kim Kardashian. 300 million followers around the world, right? The most charismatic people,

00;18;01;20 - 00;18;14;10
Milam Miller
at least in a corporate setting. And maybe I'll throw in a female example. Ginni Rometty, for example, who became the CEO of IBM. What we've learned is that those leaders do not make it about themselves.

00;18;14;10 - 00;18;37;26
Milam Miller
They're actually in the offices outside of their corner office with a beautiful view. They're figuring out what matters to each of their teams and why. So that's what charisma is. We need to reframe it as a two way human connection loop that's predicated on energy exchange and a keen interest in the other person, not a fixation or insecurity of me and how I'm perceived.

00;18;37;29 - 00;18;42;08
Craig Andrews
Yeah. You know, a book that I'm rereading is Jack wall and not Jack,

00;18;42;08 - 00;18;44;27
Craig Andrews
is Sam Walton's book Made in America?

00;18;44;29 - 00;18;46;00
Milam Miller
I've never read it.

00;18;46;03 - 00;19;07;00
Craig Andrews
Teilhard's great book. You should read it. It's really, really good. But he talks about one of the things he would do is he would go to the truck depots and show up with a box of donuts. Yeah, and he'd just sit down with the the truck drivers. And he discovered that they were his best inside Intel into what was going on in the stores.

00;19;07;03 - 00;19;07;24
Milam Miller
That's right.

00;19;07;26 - 00;19;18;26
Craig Andrews
Because these drivers would go around to all the stores and he could learn so much about what was happening. But here he is, billionaire showing up at the truck depot with a box of donuts.

00;19;19;02 - 00;19;24;07
Milam Miller
Yeah, yeah. It's brilliant. I love that case study. Thanks for sharing.

00;19;24;07 - 00;19;43;02
Milam Miller
I do think there's an incentivization component with the donuts. I've seen that in my own line of work when I've given workshops at Amazon. Google. The best way to get adults grown adults. Craig. To contribute or participate, I bring cookies. I bring biscuits with the boss because that's part of my brand being the real life Ted Lasso, which we can delve into deeper.

00;19;43;05 - 00;20;06;26
Milam Miller
But going back to Sam Walton, what that highlights for me, and I think this is a fundamental truth about charisma, is another limiting belief that I grew up thinking was that charisma was an inborn personality trait. You either have it at a factor or you don't. And I'm here to tell listeners that's not the case. It actually is a skill that can be crafted to meet your unique personality, but you've got to practice at it and you've got to refine it.

00;20;06;26 - 00;20;12;23
Milam Miller
And it's really going to be in service to others. And so the minute we can think of charisma, not just as,

00;20;12;23 - 00;20;30;11
Milam Miller
two way human connection versus one way attraction, but when we start to think of it as a skill as opposed to an inborn personality trait, then we start to develop it. And what you're sharing about Sam is he didn't think he was above any of those truck drivers, even though he was a billionaire, had one of the fastest growing companies in the world.

00;20;30;13 - 00;20;35;05
Milam Miller
And that's the fundamental truth of charisma two nobody's better than you. Nobody's worse than you. We're

00;20;35;05 - 00;20;51;06
Milam Miller
on the same playing field, and when we can be authentically ourselves, show up boldly in environments like Sam did, and remain curious. Those are my ABCs of charisma. Authenticity. Boldness. Curiosity. You'll start to see your charisma craft take shape.

00;20;51;08 - 00;20;55;09
Craig Andrews
I love that, and I love the way you break it down. The ABC.

00;20;55;09 - 00;21;00;03
Craig Andrews
I want to shift gears a little bit, and I'm going to start off with a confession. And,

00;21;00;03 - 00;21;09;15
Craig Andrews
Two different companies. I recommended that we replace the sales team with the fax machine.

00;21;09;15 - 00;21;13;06
Craig Andrews
Obviously, we're going back a few years when we still use fax machines.

00;21;13;08 - 00;21;14;02
Craig Andrews
Sure.

00;21;14;04 - 00;21;14;23
Milam Miller
But.

00;21;14;26 - 00;21;33;21
Craig Andrews
You know, I'm a marketer. And, yeah, we were like cats and dogs. And in the green room, I told you a story about. In my current business, my biggest success ever was because I was paired up. There was a sales guy that knew how to swing at the pitches we were throwing across the plate, and I would have never experienced that success without him.

00;21;36;06 - 00;21;49;05
Milam Miller
Can I interrupt real quick, Craig, because I want to know before you continue this line of thought. You mentioned him earlier. What did he do or what did he do differently compared to other sales guys you had been around? Have you ever been able to deduce that?

00;21;49;07 - 00;22;02;16
Craig Andrews
No he didn't. Private I never figured it out. But the Duke closed deals. He would take the pitches, he'd close them, you know, he'd take the leads. He would. He would work them and, you know, there were a couple times where,

00;22;02;16 - 00;22;08;16
Craig Andrews
we were sitting down. We were doing lead review, and it was interesting. I could see he got a little bit insecurities.

00;22;08;16 - 00;22;12;11
Craig Andrews
Like, all, you know, he was trying to defend his work,

00;22;12;11 - 00;22;29;20
Craig Andrews
as opposed to marketing. And I just pause and say, Chris, I want to be clear. We don't sell. If a deal gets closed, it's because you closed it. We're not closing deals. So any deal that gets closed, you closed it. And,

00;22;29;20 - 00;22;34;24
Craig Andrews
and so things and I had to have that conversation a couple times and things improved.

00;22;34;24 - 00;22;49;28
Craig Andrews
But now I don't know what it was other than it just seemed like he was practicing the fundamentals. He was he was stepping up to play and working on swing. And he would there was a pitch coming across the plate. He was swinging at him. And

00;22;49;28 - 00;22;52;28
Craig Andrews
so many times the,

00;22;52;28 - 00;22;59;10
Craig Andrews
I see him not swinging at the pitch or I see them trying to win business at price on price.

00;22;59;10 - 00;23;17;25
Craig Andrews
So the two times I recommended replacing the sales team with a fax machine, the only thing they would do is they come back and they'd say, hey, the customer wants a cheaper price. I'm like, really? What value are you bring into this picture? If that's the only message we're bringing back from the customer, let's just put a fax machine in.

00;23;17;25 - 00;23;21;04
Craig Andrews
We'll have them fax whatever price they want and we'll figure out if we'll do it.

00;23;21;04 - 00;23;21;16
Milam Miller
That's

00;23;21;16 - 00;23;23;23
Milam Miller
clever.

00;23;23;26 - 00;23;32;15
Craig Andrews
Yeah. But the but Chris in that case obviously provided a lot of value. He was able to close the deals.

00;23;32;15 - 00;23;45;13
Craig Andrews
And so that that led us to excel and do really well. Yep. And let him excel and do really well. And we did well together. And without him that wouldn't be a great success story.

00;23;45;16 - 00;24;04;12
Milam Miller
Yeah, I love that that you have a case study of where it worked well together. And when I apply my my hypothesis, we'll use it as a litmus test. I believe you said his name was Chris. Was Chris authentic? From what you could tell? Yeah. Was Chris bold from what you saw?

00;24;04;14 - 00;24;10;25
Craig Andrews
Mostly. Mostly that. Yeah. He got a little he got a little nervous on price, but mostly bold.

00;24;11;02 - 00;24;18;29
Milam Miller
Mostly bold. Yeah. So kind of like me. We're almost there. And then was Chris a curious lad?

00;24;19;01 - 00;24;20;01
Craig Andrews
Mostly, yeah.

00;24;20;04 - 00;24;33;11
Milam Miller
So yeah, because I think if we can really. I always say that curiosity, it's the golden key. We can't forget about it. Because if we can get curious about what that block is, then we can usually step up to the plate a little bit bolder. To use this analogy, you're using,

00;24;33;11 - 00;24;38;28
Milam Miller
the best sellers are closers. And to be clear, everybody plays a role in the sales process, including marketing.

00;24;39;02 - 00;25;00;21
Milam Miller
Even though that may not be your fundamental job, you've helped move it through the pipeline or or helped bring it in the funnel. Whatever. However the the sales system is structure. And then ultimately the the individuals like Chris, that are there to close, they've got to use these ABCs to do it. And and I would I guess knowing that he was authentic in mostly bold, mostly curious.

00;25;00;26 - 00;25;05;02
Milam Miller
Would you call Chris charismatic or would you call him something else?

00;25;05;04 - 00;25;13;24
Craig Andrews
You know, it's fine. I don't know if I and it's probably because of my own limitation. Your saying the word charismatic. I would say Chris is a great guy. Yeah. And,

00;25;13;24 - 00;25;23;13
Craig Andrews
but, I, I think so, as I think about your definition and actually I want to revise when my scores. When, when you said,

00;25;23;13 - 00;25;24;24
Craig Andrews
it. Was he bold?

00;25;24;26 - 00;25;27;20
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Let me just go ahead and move that fully to bold because,

00;25;27;20 - 00;25;42;25
Craig Andrews
this was a wealth management group. And one of the things that Chris reluctantly but boldly signed off on was let me put on their website that their chief investment officer used to be a gambler. So that took some boldness,

00;25;42;25 - 00;25;44;05
Craig Andrews
to do it. Yeah.

00;25;44;05 - 00;25;46;20
Craig Andrews
Now we were doing it for very scientific reasons.

00;25;46;20 - 00;25;49;01
Craig Andrews
We knew why we were doing it was very calculated.

00;25;49;01 - 00;26;05;14
Craig Andrews
And it's, you know, a counterintuitive thing that builds trust when you put things like that on the website. It's very counterintuitive, but it works brilliantly. And so Chris was bold because that that was a that was a crazy ask on my part.

00;26;05;17 - 00;26;19;06
Milam Miller
Well, I love that you're you're giving him that. I didn't mean to cut you off, Craig, but the benefit of the doubt to change your answer is, I can tell the memory recalls coming back like, oh, I forgot he did this. And that really is bold, you know? And we need more colleagues,

00;26;19;06 - 00;26;27;25
Milam Miller
and coworkers in our workplace that do that and give us the benefit of the doubt and say, that took some real cojones, or there was a lot of bravery that sat behind that action.

00;26;27;28 - 00;26;33;05
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So.

00;26;33;08 - 00;26;39;19
Craig Andrews
The I mean, and this is my world. So I'm just going to end my podcast. So I'm going to be selfish.

00;26;39;21 - 00;26;40;01
Milam Miller
Do it.

00;26;40;01 - 00;26;42;09
Craig Andrews
Go back, ask you

00;26;42;09 - 00;26;54;26
Craig Andrews
obviously I want as many great studies. You know, I, I won't be able to report as many times that we tripled revenue in a year and a half as possible. Yeah.

00;26;54;26 - 00;27;03;26
Craig Andrews
And to do that, I need a better relationship with sales guys. I need sales guys that can close. But we have to work together now.

00;27;03;26 - 00;27;05;09
Craig Andrews
You work with sales teams?

00;27;05;16 - 00;27;07;07
Milam Miller
I do.

00;27;07;10 - 00;27;19;00
Craig Andrews
How do you make them better and how do you make them work with marketing? Sure. And I'm not trying to put it on their shoulders, but I'm just trying to understand from the other side of the glass, what are you saying? And how do we do it?

00;27;19;02 - 00;27;19;21
Milam Miller
Totally.

00;27;19;21 - 00;27;24;17
Milam Miller
Let me answer what I'm seeing first and then tell you how I do it.

00;27;24;17 - 00;27;38;12
Milam Miller
Because I do think every business is unique in and of its own, right? Right. Otherwise, I don't think there's two companies that are exactly the same. A lot of similarities, maybe across big tech, but unique cultures and so forth.

00;27;38;12 - 00;27;45;03
Milam Miller
I'm seeing a lot of scarcity in the market, meaning that a lot of sellers are afraid of,

00;27;45;03 - 00;27;49;23
Milam Miller
AI giving other teams a competitive advantage as opposed to their own team.

00;27;49;26 - 00;27;59;16
Milam Miller
I'm like, you can use it too, unless there's a company policy that prohibits you from doing it. And I think AI is a phenomenal tool to enhance output quality of work.

00;27;59;16 - 00;28;02;04
Milam Miller
It's a great thought partner, a great sounding board.

00;28;02;04 - 00;28;09;06
Milam Miller
It's a great efficiency tool. Productivity tool. There's the list goes on and on the benefits. And I'm not here to talk about AI because I'm no expert on it.

00;28;09;14 - 00;28;31;14
Milam Miller
But what I am seeing in the market is sellers is that it's less about AI taking their job. It's more about, is there going to be a competitor that is using it or leveraging it to their advantage over us? And so what I preach and what I talk about is the art of relational selling. I can tell you a lot of things about what to do, but it's not going to actually show you how to do it.

00;28;31;14 - 00;28;52;29
Milam Miller
And that's what I workshop with all of my clients so that they really get to know themselves and their style, and ensuring that they are selling on such a highly relational level that they're honoring charisma as human connection, not trying to push through a transaction, because that's what AI is pushing us like more transactions, more volume, more more quantity.

00;28;53;04 - 00;29;04;10
Milam Miller
For me, it's all about quality. So how do we do that? Craig? Really two things. My business is called be confident and kind, and there's a reason for that. Confidence is,

00;29;04;10 - 00;29;15;19
Milam Miller
an energy, or rather it's it's a doing energy that is underpinned to competence. We can only become confident in something if we build up that competency that I talked about in the social stereotype content model.

00;29;15;26 - 00;29;22;20
Milam Miller
So it's all about reps, reps, reps. And to know thyself what you're saying, how you're saying it and how it can be,

00;29;22;20 - 00;29;41;25
Milam Miller
improved and fine tuned. The kindness piece so we cannot lose sight of it because we could talk all day about value and benefits and why this makes sense for you. But if it feels prescriptive and it doesn't feel human like I'm leading with humanity and I'm kind when you're giving me feedback, maybe it's on price, maybe it's on something else.

00;29;42;01 - 00;29;57;23
Milam Miller
And then I'm taking it back to the team and I'm using the influence I have to kindly deliver this feedback so that my product team or the engineers are going to want to improve it. Then we're going to get stuck in a stalemate or that bottleneck effect. So I think the best thing that,

00;29;57;23 - 00;30;01;26
Milam Miller
the teams I work with can develop is what is it that's giving them confidence?

00;30;01;26 - 00;30;18;02
Milam Miller
How can we do more of it, and what are the areas that we need to deploy more kindness to become effective with the desired end result for the team, which is always to grow? The bottom line, the bottom line is growing, the businesses thriving. We're going to get bigger end of year bonuses, which we all want better payouts.

00;30;18;02 - 00;30;29;15
Milam Miller
Like a lot of people, not everyone is motivated by money, but that is a great across the board way to say we as a team, the tide will rise together.

00;30;29;17 - 00;30;30;21
Craig Andrews
That's fascinating.

00;30;30;21 - 00;30;54;26
Craig Andrews
The. So let me just kind touch give my take on AI and you were saying it but you're using different words. But I believe there's one thing I hasn't figured out and that's human connection. I have a proof point and it's a little bit salacious.

00;30;54;29 - 00;30;58;10
Milam Miller
Let's hear it.

00;30;58;12 - 00;31;03;21
Craig Andrews
If I figured out human connection, then OnlyFans would not be a viable business model.

00;31;03;23 - 00;31;06;13
Milam Miller
Fascinating.

00;31;06;16 - 00;31;40;28
Craig Andrews
Yeah. I mean, think about the vocabulary needed. Yeah. For that. How much the training on the LM, you know, it's not like it's quoting Shakespeare. Sure. Limited vocabulary. But there's something missing that humans bring to the picture and kind of tying in what you're talking about, what the folks feeling scarcity folks afraid about AI losing their job might at least as far as I can see, the ability to make a connection, an emotional connection with another human.

00;31;41;01 - 00;32;04;12
Craig Andrews
Is a human function, not a machine function. Yeah. And like you said, you can augment your work with AI. It's a great companion. It's a great companion. But at least as far as I can see. And, and guess what the you know, the porn industry has gazillions of dollars to spend on trying to do this. It solves a lot of problems for them.

00;32;04;17 - 00;32;12;21
Craig Andrews
They haven't cracked it. And so I think whether it's any job that requires human connection, I don't think I as your competitor.

00;32;12;23 - 00;32;40;14
Milam Miller
Yeah, that's a fascinating lens that I've never even considered. What's coming up for me, Craig, is this idea that going back to your examples, the fax machine, if that had been implemented at your organization and there is somebody still waiting for the faxes to come in, because there's this reactionary business model of this person wanted at $10 per product or per unit, this person at 250, or, you know, whatever, whatever scale or metric we're talking about.

00;32;40;17 - 00;32;48;28
Milam Miller
And I'll tie it back real quickly to sports. For example, the owner I worked for used to say, you can go outside

00;32;48;28 - 00;33;02;11
Milam Miller
our football stadium and buy a bottle of water for $10 or excuse me for for $2, $2.50, but you can go inside and we can charge $10. So that's just the idea of of pricing and knowing your worth, right.

00;33;02;11 - 00;33;20;12
Milam Miller
Like I'll say, it's the same bottle of water, but outside of you're paying 250 and inside you're paying for acts, you're paying you're paying $10. So I say that because that person, if there was that person checking the facts and say, we know Craig, their job would be done. Like I would already be processing those faxes, but when they came in.

00;33;20;14 - 00;33;26;11
Milam Miller
So I is coming for jobs. I hate to say it, but it's the kind thing to say for people that are in,

00;33;26;11 - 00;33;38;17
Milam Miller
for a lack of better word, like synthesizing data or processing paper. Very administrative roles, generally speaking. Now, I'm not saying anyone who's listening to this that's an executive assistant run out and quit your job and find that else.

00;33;38;23 - 00;33;58;20
Milam Miller
But you might be prudent to think about where you play in the sales cycle, because the fact of the matter is, sales is what keeps CEOs up at night. I hear it from every executive leader I've talked to. It's all about the bottom line and not just revenue, which is great to generate, but are we on a path to profitability or are we remaining profitable?

00;33;58;22 - 00;34;17;05
Milam Miller
So all that to say, if you know how to connect with others and you've developed your charisma craft, you have this art of human connection you can close like Chris. Good. Then you are indispensable. Like they're going to want to retain you because of your talent. And that's not to say you're a rock star and you do it better than everyone else.

00;34;17;05 - 00;34;20;21
Milam Miller
Like I'm all for all for celebrating star power.

00;34;20;21 - 00;34;32;22
Milam Miller
But it has to be uniquely your own because there are other people who can do it too. And until I figure out how to do it on our behalf, we're going to continue to need people who are real. Because that's the other thing I'm hearing in the in the future of work.

00;34;32;22 - 00;34;53;10
Milam Miller
It's not just the the scarcity mindset, but on the other end, it's the skepticism of, am I talking to a real human because I want to. We're craving that. That pendulum is going to swing back of like, I want to have a human connection about I've been a client of yours or a customer for ten, 20 years. We're we're due for a price paid because quality control has gone down.

00;34;53;10 - 00;34;54;00
Milam Miller
Or,

00;34;54;00 - 00;35;03;03
Milam Miller
we want you to freeze our pricing for the next two years. And here's why. And they want to, like, be able to negotiate and not have to go through a robot. That's just the fact of the matter.

00;35;03;05 - 00;35;19;01
Craig Andrews
Yeah, absolutely. Well, my, I, I we could go in for a couple of hours. We could do. We've talked about Joe Rogan week ago. I'm convinced I could go Joe Rogan length podcast with him, but I'm not sure. You probably have dinner or something to get to. And,

00;35;19;01 - 00;35;23;08
Craig Andrews
and we should wrap up. This has been really, really good.

00;35;23;11 - 00;35;31;09
Craig Andrews
How can people reach you and where can they get your book? Your your book again is the, I make sure I get the,

00;35;31;09 - 00;35;39;01
Craig Andrews
the Christmas craft a modern Leadership guide to enhance your risk factor. Where can they get that? How can they contact you?

00;35;39;03 - 00;35;39;28
Milam Miller
That's right.

00;35;39;28 - 00;35;51;21
Milam Miller
The charisma craft is available on Amazon in multiple countries, all countries globally, for that matter. And you can find me on LinkedIn. My Emilia miller. Like the bear,

00;35;51;21 - 00;35;54;04
Milam Miller
very easy to remember. And I'm also,

00;35;54;04 - 00;36;02;13
Milam Miller
available at be Confident and kind.com. I'll say that again WWE dot be confident in.com. We would love to work with

00;36;02;13 - 00;36;06;13
Milam Miller
any sales teams and especially you sales leaders that set the tone and tempo,

00;36;06;13 - 00;36;11;12
Milam Miller
to build and cultivate a psychologically safe and high performing team.

00;36;11;14 - 00;36;18;16
Craig Andrews
All right. Well, I do hope people reach out to you because I think you have a lot to offer. Thank you for coming on, Leaders and Legacies.

00;36;18;19 - 00;36;21;20
Milam Miller
Thanks so much, Craig. It was fun talking to you.

00;36;21;20 - 00;36;48;14
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;36;48;14 - 00;36;50;09
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00;36;50;11 - 00;37;13;23
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest. Tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.

00;37;13;25 - 00;37;22;00
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up. Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.

00;37;22;00 - 00;39;24;05
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.