--- title: "Episode #235: Why “Scared Money Doesn’t Make Money” – Sonny Grappone’s Leadership Mindset" description: "Discover Sonny Grappone's journey from humble beginnings to founding Precision Accounting & Consulting, and learn why \"scared money doesn't make money\" drives his leadership mindset." image: https://pod.allies4me.com/hubfs/Podcast/Episodes/Sonny-Grappone-R-4.jpg --- [![Allies4me](https://pod.allies4me.com/hubfs/raw_assets/public/Allies4me_May2022/images/logo.svg "Allies4me")](https://allies4me.com/) Menu - [Home](https://allies4me.com/) - [Grow](https://allies4me.com/grow/) - [Financial Advisors](https://allies4me.com/grow/financial-advisors/) - [Foundations Courses](https://hub.allies4me.com/courses/course-signup/) - [Podcast](https://allies4me.com/podcast/) - [Have Craig Speak at Your Event](https://hub.allies4me.com/lp/speak/) - [Be a Guest](https://pod.allies4me.com/podcast-guest/) - [Get Started](https://allies4me.com/get-started/) - [Have Craig Speak at Your Event](https://hub.allies4me.com/lp/speak/) - [Community](https://allies4me.com/about/community/) - [Downloads](https://allies4me.com/downloads/) ## Episode #235: Why “Scared Money Doesn’t Make Money” – Sonny Grappone’s Leadership Mindset October 28, 2025 by [Craig Andrews](https://pod.allies4me.com/podcast/author/craig-andrews) Sonny Grappone didn’t follow a straight path to success. Raised by a single mother from Guyana and a hardworking Italian-American stepfather, Sonny grew up in Queens, New York, sharing a bed with his mom and sister. That early scarcity drove his work ethic—bagging groceries at 12, building computers in high school, and running an auto detailing business in college. At 25, he pivoted. He went back to school, discovered a knack for accounting, and never looked back. After years in the corporate grind, Sonny bet on himself and launched Precision Accounting & Consulting. His leadership mindset is clear: invest in yourself, know your value, and make bold decisions—even when they seem risky. He now advises law firms, construction companies, and business owners on how to treat accounting as an investment, not an expense. Sonny doesn’t just run numbers—he helps clients fund growth, make strategic hires, and unlock hidden savings with federal tax programs. His leadership mantra? “Scared money doesn’t make money.” Want to learn more about Sonny Grappone's work? Check out his website at [https://precisionaccountingconsulting.com](https://precisionaccountingconsulting.com) Connect with Sonny Grappone on LinkedIn at [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonny-grappone-24536312a](https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonny-grappone-24536312a) ## **Key Points with Timestamps** - **\[00:01:07\]** Sonny’s blue-collar roots and why the pandemic accelerated his business - **\[00:02:27\]** Changing his name as a tribute to his stepfather and embracing identity - **\[00:04:42\]** Life growing up in Queens and Levittown: from stoops to sports - **\[00:07:22\]** Early entrepreneurship: computers, cars, and hustle - **\[00:10:02\]** The turning point at age 25 that reignited his drive through education - **\[00:11:18\]** Leaving corporate for less money—and more control - **\[00:11:59\]** Founding Precision Accounting & Consulting with a mission - **\[00:12:29\]** Why construction and law firms became his niche - **\[00:14:19\]** Positioning accounting as an investment, not a cost - **\[00:16:01\]** Creative tax strategies that fund growth—like the wellness tax credit - **\[00:18:38\]** "Scared money doesn’t make money"—the mindset behind leadership - **\[00:21:28\]** Why leaders must scrutinize payroll, not marketing or accounting - **\[00:22:28\]** Case study: how a physical therapy client turned $8M revenue into profit - **\[00:24:06\]** Final message: From Park Avenue to Park Bench—work ethic wins ## Transcript 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20 Craig Andrews I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career. 00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10 Craig Andrews My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show. 00;00;51;10 - 00;01;07;08 Craig Andrews Today I want to welcome Sonny Grappone. He is the founder of Precision Accounting and Consulting. Like many businesses, it's it just took off during the pandemic. Pandemic was good for some folks, bad for others. 00;01;07;08 - 00;01;09;26 Craig Andrews And I think there's a lesson to be learned there. 00;01;09;26 - 00;01;19;28 Craig Andrews That we will definitely dive into. Sonny grew up in a from blue collar beginnings and really carrying some message that, you know what? 00;01;19;28 - 00;01;21;10 Craig Andrews It doesn't matter. 00;01;21;10 - 00;01;32;19 Craig Andrews He has he said some things like, it doesn't matter if you're from Park Avenue and Park Bench. There's an opportunity for you. I love that saying. So tune in, Sonny. Welcome. 00;01;32;21 - 00;01;41;01 Sonny Grappone I great, thanks for having me. Thanks for that. It's a pleasure to be on your show, and I'm really excited to kind of share my story and, start this conversation. 00;01;41;03 - 00;01;44;00 Craig Andrews Yeah. No, I'm. Well, I've been enjoying our chat in the, 00;01;44;00 - 00;01;46;07 Craig Andrews in the green room, and, 00;01;46;07 - 00;01;55;29 Craig Andrews now I just assumed I looked at your name. I was like, this is like a classic New York name, but you're not from New York? 00;01;56;02 - 00;01;59;28 Sonny Grappone No, I am, I, I might well, my family's not. Right. So, 00;01;59;28 - 00;02;04;07 Sonny Grappone it's a funny story. So, you know, my parents, my mother, 00;02;04;07 - 00;02;06;24 Sonny Grappone specifically, she's from Guyana in South America. 00;02;06;24 - 00;02;09;11 Sonny Grappone I was raised by her and my stepfather, 00;02;09;11 - 00;02;11;20 Sonny Grappone Anthony. So. Italian American. 00;02;11;20 - 00;02;15;21 Sonny Grappone My nickname was Always Sunny. Growing up for my sister, she always called me sunny. 00;02;15;24 - 00;02;19;11 Sonny Grappone And when I got married, I hated my first name. All right. 00;02;19;11 - 00;02;22;14 Sonny Grappone My first name was Harpreet. It was a very religious name. 00;02;22;14 - 00;02;27;13 Sonny Grappone The meaning obviously wasn't bad. You know, it meant God loves you, right? But, 00;02;27;13 - 00;02;37;01 Sonny Grappone nobody ever called me, and everybody called me sunny. So when I got married, my wife said, you know, that's a nice gift gesture to your, 00;02;37;01 - 00;02;38;04 Sonny Grappone stepfather. 00;02;38;07 - 00;02;49;06 Sonny Grappone You should take his last name, you know, and it's something that I've wanted to do for a long time and just never pulled the trigger on it, and I did. And in New York, what happens is, when you have to change your last name, you have to put it in the, 00;02;49;06 - 00;02;51;20 Sonny Grappone paper news day or one of the big papers. 00;02;51;20 - 00;02;54;09 Sonny Grappone You have to, like, fill out a thing. So for, 00;02;54;09 - 00;03;05;09 Sonny Grappone before my. I got married the day before. You know, I gave them the news article, and I'm like, oh, you know, check out what's in the paper, you know? And yeah, he looked at and I was very emotional. You know, we started to be, you know, getting teary eyed and, 00;03;05;09 - 00;03;10;25 Sonny Grappone you know, it's just a great gift to get to him because he, he, he definitely molded me into the man that I am today. 00;03;11;01 - 00;03;16;23 Sonny Grappone You know, so that's where that name originates from. So when people look at me and I see so many components that take, 00;03;16;23 - 00;03;26;23 Sonny Grappone that they have to take to looks at me because the skin color to the, to the day, it just doesn't add up. You know, I sound like Italian mobster, but look like I'm from South America, so, 00;03;26;26 - 00;03;36;20 Craig Andrews Well, you know, I used to work with somebody. I grew up in Long Island. I, I made some crack about, you know, the concrete business. And they said, you know, I went to a wedding from was, 00;03;36;20 - 00;03;40;13 Craig Andrews family that was in the concrete business, which it's like, whoa. 00;03;40;13 - 00;03;43;10 Craig Andrews And for those that don't know, that's that, that's the mob. 00;03;43;10 - 00;03;43;25 Craig Andrews Or at least. 00;03;43;25 - 00;03;48;09 Sonny Grappone That's about it. Yes, yes, yes. Masonry, concrete. You know. 00;03;48;09 - 00;03;51;10 Sonny Grappone Yeah. Waste management, that type of stuff. Yeah. 00;03;51;12 - 00;03;51;26 Craig Andrews Yeah, 00;03;51;26 - 00;03;56;07 Craig Andrews yeah. We we had a prior guest on that, 00;03;56;07 - 00;04;01;28 Craig Andrews his last name, and I can't say it right. It's, Leonia or something like that. Drive over the only and, 00;04;01;28 - 00;04;03;27 Craig Andrews he grew up in new Jersey, and his, his, 00;04;03;27 - 00;04;09;12 Craig Andrews mom was picking up from, you know, he was playing with one of his buddies, and she said, do you know who he is? 00;04;09;14 - 00;04;15;09 Craig Andrews And he's like, no. And she's like his grandfather's, the head of the new Jersey mob. 00;04;15;12 - 00;04;16;12 Sonny Grappone Oh my God. 00;04;16;12 - 00;04;18;28 Sonny Grappone Yeah. That and New Jersey's heavily, you know, 00;04;18;28 - 00;04;22;03 Sonny Grappone influenced by the mob in New York. New Jersey definitely. 00;04;22;03 - 00;04;28;25 Sonny Grappone Not so much anymore. It's kind of toned down. Or maybe they're doing a better job of hiding it, you know? But, you know, you you had too much, 00;04;28;25 - 00;04;32;18 Sonny Grappone about the mob anymore as opposed to, like, the 90s when I was growing up. 00;04;32;20 - 00;04;38;20 Craig Andrews Yeah. What was it like growing up? I mean, was it was it scary? Was it exciting? What 00;04;38;20 - 00;04;42;18 Craig Andrews what was it like to grow up in the middle of that? 00;04;42;21 - 00;04;58;03 Sonny Grappone So I grew up in the 90s. I grew up in Queens, New York. Right. So obviously everybody knows where Queens, New York is, right? You dig it? Queens. It's fast paced, you know, kind of hustle and bustle, right? Nobody had cars. You know, we took public transportation, public busses to school. 00;04;58;03 - 00;04;59;00 Sonny Grappone You know, I, 00;04;59;00 - 00;05;02;25 Sonny Grappone if you want to look at my childhood, if you ever seen the movie The Bronx Tale, right. 00;05;02;25 - 00;05;06;05 Sonny Grappone Like, not that like from that era, but like, just the 00;05;06;05 - 00;05;11;14 Sonny Grappone the scene. Actually, The Bronx Tale was filmed in my neighborhood. It wasn't from the Bronx. It was filmed in Jackson Heights, Queens, 00;05;11;14 - 00;05;12;18 Sonny Grappone at our old high school. 00;05;12;18 - 00;05;18;17 Sonny Grappone But it was like that type of, like, you know, kids hanging out on the stoop, right? You hung out all day in the park. 00;05;18;19 - 00;05;29;24 Sonny Grappone You play basketball, handball, you know, you played there, then you came home, hung out on the stoop, polite. And then if you missed something that night, you know, you forget about it. You'd be teased all day the next day. So, 00;05;29;24 - 00;05;32;18 Sonny Grappone we grew up without it. We didn't have a lot of money growing up. 00;05;32;18 - 00;05;36;10 Sonny Grappone As I said before, you know, my my mother came from a third world country. 00;05;36;12 - 00;05;37;02 Sonny Grappone Guyana. 00;05;37;02 - 00;05;38;16 Sonny Grappone It's a little country right next to, 00;05;38;16 - 00;05;40;19 Sonny Grappone Brazil for, you know, people that don't know, 00;05;40;19 - 00;05;43;13 Sonny Grappone Jim Jones. Right. Everybody knows Jim Jones. That's like the, 00;05;43;13 - 00;05;46;08 Sonny Grappone Guyana, unfortunately, you know, 00;05;46;08 - 00;05;47;11 Sonny Grappone fame to Gloria. 00;05;47;11 - 00;05;49;22 Sonny Grappone But anyway, she came to this country, 00;05;49;22 - 00;05;52;14 Sonny Grappone at 17 years old with nothing. 00;05;52;14 - 00;05;56;28 Sonny Grappone Had me and my sister and basically worked at this company called Wall Downs. 00;05;57;01 - 00;05;58;24 Sonny Grappone It was a big supermarket chain, 00;05;58;24 - 00;06;08;14 Sonny Grappone worked her way up from, you know, and, you know, cashier to, you know, basically the head bookkeeper there. And then my stepfather, who was a manager at the store and, 00;06;08;14 - 00;06;15;09 Sonny Grappone they got married and my mom came home one day and was like, well, moving to Long Island, you know, and I'm like, well, Island, you know? 00;06;15;09 - 00;06;27;12 Sonny Grappone And like, this was like this whole nother world to me. You know, we're talking like it's like an hour away, you know, it's like, you know, back then Little Island was, you know, sticks, you know, so when I moved out there, 00;06;27;12 - 00;06;31;23 Sonny Grappone it was a little while when I moved to Levittown. So anybody that knows Levittown, 00;06;31;23 - 00;06;35;02 Sonny Grappone Levittown is actually the first suburban area in America. 00;06;35;09 - 00;06;44;13 Sonny Grappone That's where they, they built the suburbia neighborhood from was from Levittown. William Levitt, you know, he was a World War Two vet. So when I came there, 00;06;44;13 - 00;06;53;15 Sonny Grappone not to bring race or anything into it, but I was the probably the third or fourth darkest kid in that whole town. You know, so I little out of place, you know, and when I first got there. 00;06;53;15 - 00;06;53;23 Sonny Grappone But, 00;06;53;24 - 00;06;58;02 Sonny Grappone the way I made friends was through sports. I was big into basketball, was, 00;06;58;02 - 00;07;00;07 Sonny Grappone so that's kind of where I made all my friends. 00;07;00;07 - 00;07;03;24 Sonny Grappone Yeah. And growing up in Levittown, I had a great experience. I really did, you know, 00;07;03;24 - 00;07;08;10 Sonny Grappone as years went on, the neighborhood got more diverse. And I just had a great experience growing up there. 00;07;08;12 - 00;07;08;22 Sonny Grappone And, 00;07;08;22 - 00;07;14;22 Sonny Grappone I worked from the age of 14, you know, actually, 12, I should say 12 years old. I was bagging groceries at my mother's, 00;07;14;22 - 00;07;18;17 Sonny Grappone supermarket store for tip money. You know, that's when I first started. And, 00;07;18;17 - 00;07;22;17 Sonny Grappone throughout the years, I always had some type of side business, you know, 00;07;22;17 - 00;07;26;26 Sonny Grappone building computers was my first side business, you know, building from scratch to people. 00;07;26;26 - 00;07;30;29 Sonny Grappone Then when I went to college, I started my own auto detailing auto body, 00;07;30;29 - 00;07;32;25 Sonny Grappone shop that I did for many years. 00;07;32;25 - 00;07;47;27 Sonny Grappone Yeah, I've had quite a few side businesses. I always had that entrepreneurial mindset of always want to make more money and have something on my own because of the way I grew up. You know, when I was younger, you know, in the 90s and not having that much, you know, I grew up in a one room apartment where I shared a bed with my mom and my sister. 00;07;47;27 - 00;07;56;26 Sonny Grappone You know, a lot like I was like 12, you know, so growing up in that mindset, you know, like, kind of I didn't want that for myself or for my family, you know, and, 00;07;56;26 - 00;08;06;19 Sonny Grappone and my mom always told us, like, you know, look at all, everything we've been through and how much we've attained, you know, she did she was the example and the role model for me to know that she came from nothing. 00;08;06;26 - 00;08;13;23 Sonny Grappone She built this life up. And now I've been given all these privileges that I should be, I should, I should have wasted, you know, and, 00;08;13;23 - 00;08;16;25 Sonny Grappone I went to college of two years. 00;08;16;25 - 00;08;18;00 Sonny Grappone I played basketball, 00;08;18;00 - 00;08;21;21 Sonny Grappone at a college. I told my mom twice, and after that, it was all downhill. 00;08;21;21 - 00;08;25;11 Sonny Grappone I didn't know what to do with myself, so I kind of worked two jobs. 00;08;25;13 - 00;08;29;25 Sonny Grappone Always at my side business. And I ordered detailing business, and, 00;08;29;25 - 00;08;32;27 Sonny Grappone I partied hard, you know, and made a lot of mistakes, 00;08;32;27 - 00;08;35;06 Sonny Grappone drinking and God knows what. And, 00;08;35;06 - 00;08;47;11 Sonny Grappone when I got paid, the 25 I kind of had. And I always say this to kids, you know, I feel like 25 is the age where your brain fully develops to, like, kind of like a mature enough to know what you want. 00;08;47;13 - 00;08;50;12 Sonny Grappone Just for my my experience for me. And, 00;08;50;12 - 00;08;51;27 Sonny Grappone I remember telling I. 00;08;51;29 - 00;08;54;15 Craig Andrews I think there's some science in that. I 00;08;54;15 - 00;08;58;13 Craig Andrews legit I think there's some science really? Yeah. It's one of the arguments, 00;08;58;13 - 00;09;09;20 Craig Andrews and this is a little bit of a controversial topic, but it's one of the arguments, and kids smoking pot, you know, it's it has a bigger effect all the way up to, like, age 25. 00;09;09;20 - 00;09;12;06 Craig Andrews Because the mind is still developing. 00;09;12;08 - 00;09;12;27 Sonny Grappone Yes. 00;09;12;27 - 00;09;16;24 Sonny Grappone Listen, I experimented when I was younger, especially with pot. 00;09;16;24 - 00;09;17;07 Sonny Grappone I'm not going to 00;09;17;07 - 00;09;28;28 Sonny Grappone be shy about that. I did, but I, you know, I quit when I was 25. I still see the after effects of. And I'm not joking. Like I have a very hard time. I notice sometimes, like putting my thoughts together and getting them out there as opposed to before. 00;09;28;28 - 00;09;33;21 Sonny Grappone When I did do that type of stuff. But when I quit and I started doing all that, 00;09;33;21 - 00;09;44;00 Sonny Grappone I was working my detail in business, then it would be like 3 or 4 years now, four years, and I and I was already at 25. I was so on hand knee problems. I was starting to have back issues. 00;09;44;00 - 00;09;49;12 Sonny Grappone And I remember going to the doctor and, and he's like, you know, if you do decide to work, you say by 40 you're going to be done. 00;09;49;14 - 00;10;02;29 Sonny Grappone He's like, I'm telling you right now. So I remember going home and my mother's dream for me was to go to college, have been to school. She's like, why don't you just take a class? Just like, what's going to hurt you, you know, and I did, and I took a class and I ended up, like I said, 25. 00;10;02;29 - 00;10;16;08 Sonny Grappone Right? That mindset where I hated school when I was younger, all of a sudden, 25 years old, here I am taking the class. I actually like learning. And I was like, oh my God. Like, I actually I'm very interested in it. And I took a couple classes that I had a real knack for telling. And, 00;10;16;08 - 00;10;18;25 Sonny Grappone my mother being a bookkeeper, my aunts will be an accountant. 00;10;18;25 - 00;10;20;05 Sonny Grappone CPAs. So, 00;10;20;05 - 00;10;23;00 Sonny Grappone I took a knack for it. I saw that I had a real need for it. And, 00;10;23;00 - 00;10;31;24 Sonny Grappone I went for accounting. I went back to school when I was 25 years old. I started off when I was older. I started from scratch. I graduated at 29. And, 00;10;31;24 - 00;10;33;23 Sonny Grappone my career kind of took off from there. 00;10;33;29 - 00;10;34;20 Sonny Grappone You know, I, 00;10;34;20 - 00;10;37;07 Sonny Grappone I worked corporate for a bunch of years. I worked in the, 00;10;37;07 - 00;10;41;00 Sonny Grappone three world trade in downtown Manhattan, Cantor Fitzgerald, 00;10;41;00 - 00;10;42;08 Sonny Grappone a couple big firms. And, 00;10;42;08 - 00;10;48;02 Sonny Grappone I got tired of the corporate world. I didn't like to commute into the city every day for hours, commute. And, 00;10;48;02 - 00;10;55;08 Sonny Grappone I was doing consulting for a while, and a guy I consulted for was trying to get me to work for him, and, 00;10;55;08 - 00;10;57;04 Sonny Grappone I finally pulled the trigger and said yes. 00;10;57;04 - 00;11;18;02 Sonny Grappone And I came home and took less money. And I see this as a lesson for people, because I feel like I always cross that road with a lot of people that are close to me, where they're not happy at their jobs, and they have to make a sacrifice, that decision, you know, it's that pivotal moment where, like, you take less money to do to for your sanity, you know? 00;11;18;02 - 00;11;28;02 Sonny Grappone And I see that a lot. And it was the best thing I ever did. You know, that's why money at that time can't dictate that choice. You know, kind of have to be true to yourself. And I came back home and, 00;11;28;02 - 00;11;34;14 Sonny Grappone this gentleman basically mentored me to the point where I brought where he made it. He put it out there for me. 00;11;34;14 - 00;11;44;17 Sonny Grappone He said, if you bring in enough business, he's like, I'll, I'll make you a partner or vice versa. And basically I wasn't enough business where basically I was able to call the shots and, 00;11;44;17 - 00;11;51;07 Sonny Grappone I was able to call and have him come into my business that I had on the side and make it legit. And, 00;11;51;07 - 00;11;54;22 Sonny Grappone and I became 51% owner on that business, and he was 49%. 00;11;54;22 - 00;11;55;21 Sonny Grappone All right. And, 00;11;55;21 - 00;11;59;06 Sonny Grappone precision accounting was born. And that's how it basically came about. 00;11;59;08 - 00;12;02;20 Craig Andrews Wow. Now, was his business an accounting firm as well? 00;12;02;22 - 00;12;06;00 Sonny Grappone Sure. Yes. It's called that Comprehensive Hospitality Solutions. 00;12;06;00 - 00;12;06;22 Sonny Grappone It's a niche in, 00;12;06;22 - 00;12;13;10 Sonny Grappone restaurant and hotel industry. They do we do all restaurants and hotels do that business for accounting. 00;12;13;12 - 00;12;17;15 Craig Andrews And, and and your business, was it also in that niche or was in the different niche? 00;12;17;15 - 00;12;28;01 Sonny Grappone You know what what he liked about it is that we can when people see his name of his business, they automatically just think restaurant. So he's like, all right, this will get us into all other fields. And 00;12;28;01 - 00;12;29;21 Sonny Grappone it but it kind of took, 00;12;29;21 - 00;12;36;29 Sonny Grappone a, a U-turn and developed a niche in construction. So we do a lot of construction companies and a lot of law firms. 00;12;37;01 - 00;12;40;29 Sonny Grappone Those are the ones that pay to I'm not gonna lie there, but the work is, 00;12;40;29 - 00;12;43;19 Sonny Grappone a lot more valuable and insightful. And, 00;12;43;19 - 00;12;49;12 Sonny Grappone they kind of live and die by accounting, especially in construction. Which of course, then, you know, 00;12;49;12 - 00;12;50;21 Sonny Grappone you, you type of, 00;12;50;21 - 00;12;54;09 Sonny Grappone accounting, call it, it's basically, called cost accounting. 00;12;54;09 - 00;12;57;26 Sonny Grappone But it's a very valuable skill set that not many have. 00;12;57;28 - 00;13;02;20 Craig Andrews So it's an interesting combo. Lawyers and construction. I won't necessarily put those together. 00;13;02;22 - 00;13;04;16 Sonny Grappone Yeah. It just happened like that. You know, 00;13;04;16 - 00;13;12;03 Sonny Grappone we have other clients. We have an Hvac company. Actually, we're just talking about your Hvac problem, right? We have a track company. We take care. We have all different fields. But, 00;13;12;03 - 00;13;20;10 Sonny Grappone predominantly, I would say 60% of my book of business is construction and law firms, you know, and law firms I like just because I like that they, 00;13;20;10 - 00;13;22;23 Sonny Grappone their concern is like, I just want to make money. 00;13;22;25 - 00;13;30;22 Sonny Grappone You know what? You do what you have to do. I don't want any surprises. I'll pay you whatever as long as I get no surprises. I'm okay with that. 00;13;30;22 - 00;13;38;16 Sonny Grappone While the other end, the hospitality industry is the opposite. Like they are. Try to get involved in the day to day when they don't need to, you know, and they don't pay as well. 00;13;38;17 - 00;13;39;29 Sonny Grappone I'll just say, you know, 00;13;39;29 - 00;13;43;12 Sonny Grappone but that's a, that's a business. And you choose your audience and, 00;13;43;12 - 00;13;50;21 Sonny Grappone you choose your audience wisely. That's what I always say to my partner, you know, always know your audience and who you're working for. 00;13;50;23 - 00;13;57;25 Craig Andrews Why do you think the, there's a difference between hospitality and law? Why why are the hospitality guys trying to get into all the details? 00;13;57;27 - 00;14;19;00 Sonny Grappone Well, it's not that. It's more so like they wanted the most amount of service for the least amount of money. Right? They're always the calling diamond. Yeah, I listen, I get it. But at the same time, like, you know, like the service we're providing is very valuable. And the one that we I always try to tell people, stop, look at it, be like an expense. 00;14;19;00 - 00;14;43;25 Sonny Grappone Look at me as an investment. Right. I'm here to make you more money. Right. Like, my bottom line is when I come in and I become your account, your outsource CFO, and I'm doing your tax or whatever it may be, I'm going to save you more money than my yearly fee. And 93% of the time, that's an accurate number because I want to be neither set in the time I am successful of that. 00;14;43;27 - 00;14;48;01 Craig Andrews Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's I mean there's, there's an important lesson there. I have 00;14;48;01 - 00;15;02;22 Craig Andrews I have a buddy who was a CPA and he was starting, you know, when he was starting his firm. And I kept telling him, I said, you don't want to be some wise cost center. You need to you need to figure out how to bring value. 00;15;02;25 - 00;15;06;00 Craig Andrews Yes. Never to be viewed as a cost center. 00;15;06;03 - 00;15;20;22 Sonny Grappone 100%. I tell that because that is the mindset that they have. And listen, we still take care of a lot of restaurants. We do. We take there a lot of franchises, and the ones that don't penny pinch and just say, like they see the value of the numbers they're willing to pay, right? Scared money doesn't make money, right? 00;15;20;22 - 00;15;35;02 Sonny Grappone So like that will have to pay what it needs to do. And those are the ones that are most successful. And the proof is in the pudding. Every time we have those type of clients, they're the most successful. They're the ones that are with us for years. Right. Same goes in construction in law firms, 00;15;35;02 - 00;15;36;16 Sonny Grappone that we do, you know, and, 00;15;36;16 - 00;15;39;29 Sonny Grappone we provide a service and advisory service that really, 00;15;39;29 - 00;15;42;11 Sonny Grappone like, for example. 00;15;42;11 - 00;15;56;05 Sonny Grappone Right. Like our job is not only to do your box or your taxes, but like to find tax breaks in the IRS code and find different ways to say to different, you know, different amounts of money. Right. So perfect example is we had a place, 00;15;56;05 - 00;16;01;22 Sonny Grappone this law, another law firm we're taking care of. They need to hire three more lawyers that they don't have the funds for. 00;16;01;23 - 00;16;19;12 Sonny Grappone Right. Or nor do they know if they have the funds for it right there. So when they came on to us, I said, well, let me look at your book of business. Let me look at the clients that you have, and let me see if each client that you take on, if it's self-sufficient. Right. Like you're taking all of this client, you have the payroll to cover it, you know, are you just breaking even? 00;16;19;12 - 00;16;21;00 Sonny Grappone Right. So I did the numbers for them. 00;16;21;00 - 00;16;36;00 Sonny Grappone I did some research, and I said, you don't have the money to hire three more people. But I said, let me do a little more research and see what I could find to save some more money. So I found a, kind of a that a cafeteria 125 planets and extension of the bit. 00;16;36;03 - 00;16;54;28 Sonny Grappone I found a well, this program that is basically offering like a tax savings. So basically the government wants you to stay healthy, right? So they they give you these. Well, this plan to sign up for if you're 20 employees or more. And if you sign up for these wireless plans, it comes with, gym membership, mental health counseling, 00;16;54;28 - 00;16;55;17 Sonny Grappone you know, 00;16;55;17 - 00;16;57;26 Sonny Grappone concierge medical services. 00;16;57;29 - 00;17;04;10 Sonny Grappone They want you to stay healthy, because if you stay healthy, that lowers insurance costs for them. So they give you a tax break for that. 00;17;04;10 - 00;17;09;24 Craig Andrews That is that federal insurance or state insurance or is a federal tax or state tax. 00;17;09;26 - 00;17;10;08 Sonny Grappone That, 00;17;10;08 - 00;17;11;05 Sonny Grappone it's federal for, 00;17;11;05 - 00;17;21;29 Sonny Grappone payroll tax through like a taxes. Yes. So they'll give you a tax credit for that. And basically the way it works is that you saw you enroll in this wellness program. 00;17;21;29 - 00;17;31;15 Sonny Grappone It's a pre tax benefit day. So we just did it for this client. And we were able to save him $688 a month per employee. 00;17;31;15 - 00;17;35;09 Sonny Grappone You know. So you do the math right. You know it almost worked out. 00;17;35;09 - 00;17;41;27 Sonny Grappone You know I would say around 34,000 in 1 year, you know, 00;17;41;27 - 00;17;48;28 Sonny Grappone for one employee. So he has about 14. So, like, the guy, those big numbers, the net profits, you know, 00;17;48;28 - 00;17;56;17 Sonny Grappone in revenue, he, he he does very well revenue. But his, his payroll is kind of, you know, hurting him in the way. 00;17;56;19 - 00;18;04;13 Sonny Grappone But what happened was that we were able to save enough money where we was able to hire two more lawyers, not three, but through that, like a tax savings. 00;18;04;13 - 00;18;08;11 Sonny Grappone And it's a big thing that we've explored in the past, but we didn't really, 00;18;08;11 - 00;18;13;07 Sonny Grappone take advantage of it until this last year, because a lot of people are looking for money to hire, 00;18;13;07 - 00;18;14;15 Sonny Grappone good people. 00;18;14;15 - 00;18;29;13 Sonny Grappone Right? Qualified people. But they don't have those incentives to get people. This is a great incentive. Like to hire people. Well, you get this wellness program, you get a free gym membership, you get all these added ons, and then it lowers your like a tax savings at the end of the year. Astronomically. 00;18;29;16 - 00;18;38;03 Craig Andrews So something is said a minute ago. I've never heard this phrase before and it really struck me. You said scared money doesn't make money. Am I repeating that right? 00;18;38;05 - 00;18;42;12 Sonny Grappone Get money. Does it make money? Yes. I told my wife that although I. 00;18;42;15 - 00;18;44;05 Craig Andrews Was again afraid. 00;18;44;07 - 00;19;03;16 Sonny Grappone Scam money doesn't make money, right? So like if you're operating from a fear standpoint, right? Like that. Like I can't make this investment. I'm too scared, right? Like, you know, it takes money to make money. It's it's a kind of the same type of metaphor, right? Like, you know, if I'm scared, if I'm always operating at, like I tell my wife that, right? 00;19;03;16 - 00;19;05;18 Sonny Grappone Like, she always likes keeping our money, you know, 00;19;05;18 - 00;19;17;29 Sonny Grappone in a car that gets, like, 3%, right? She never wants to take a risk and, you know, take like eight, 9%, you know, or put it in a mutual fund, a little more aggressive, you know, and I always say to her, you know, get money to make any money, you know. 00;19;17;29 - 00;19;40;09 Sonny Grappone Right. So if we want to be adventurous or a little risk takers, you know, more risk, the bigger reward, right? So I tell people that that are my clients too, you know, or, you know, new clients that look at me like an investment, right? Like, I guarantee you I'm going to make that money. I'm going to find those funds for you to be able to live out this dream or whatever vision you have for your business, you know? 00;19;40;09 - 00;19;57;19 Sonny Grappone And I've had it happen numerous times, people that start off with one business and all of a sudden they're they're expanding out to 5 to 6 locations. You know, we've had that multiple times. We you know, we've worked in the restaurant industry. We got familiar with franchises and how to do that and how to allocate funding to do that. 00;19;57;19 - 00;20;04;03 Sonny Grappone You know, what you should be doing with your profits and stuff like that. You know, it's a whole, you know, different type of science. But, 00;20;04;03 - 00;20;08;10 Sonny Grappone that's kind of where I'm going from where, you know, scam money doesn't make any money. 00;20;08;12 - 00;20;19;15 Craig Andrews Well, you know, something I see all the time. And so I do marketing and when the economy gets tough or something goes wonky, we're one of the first things that they cut. 00;20;19;17 - 00;20;22;08 Sonny Grappone Yeah, yeah. Same here. 00;20;22;10 - 00;20;23;22 Craig Andrews And, and 00;20;23;22 - 00;20;26;04 Craig Andrews and I think of, you know, Henry Ford said those that would, 00;20;26;04 - 00;20;31;10 Craig Andrews cut advertising to save money, like those that would stop their watch to save time. 00;20;31;12 - 00;20;49;18 Sonny Grappone Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. But I, I absolutely love that saying it because it is so true. And we say that all the time in our business all the time. It's like every time when things go and like when I do this and they don't like when I do this, but because, you know, I try to tell them, like, listen, it's time to put your big boy pants on, right? 00;20;49;18 - 00;20;51;12 Sonny Grappone And let's be, let's not to be. 00;20;51;12 - 00;21;03;23 Sonny Grappone You know, that's a little humbling for them to hear. But like, when I show them a profit or loss statement, right. Showing your revenue, your Cogs, right, your cost of goods sold, your expenses, and then what your bottom line number is after all that. Right. 00;21;03;23 - 00;21;05;15 Sonny Grappone And I put a percentage of revenue. 00;21;05;15 - 00;21;28;14 Sonny Grappone Right. So here's your expenses and here's how much of the revenue it represents. And when you do accounting, most of the time it represents 1.75 to 1% of your revenue, like so when I when I show them that, I say like not worth 1% of your of your, you know, $1 million annual revenue or $5 million and same thing, go for marketing, right? 00;21;28;15 - 00;21;49;22 Sonny Grappone I know, Mark, I see all the people and I see you in the back all the time. It probably represents anywhere from, you know, half a percent to 1.5% of of annual revenue, you know, but like they don't want to look at that, but they'll look at they'll look at, you know, kind of accounting and marketing, but they'll they won't look at the major things that are holding it down, like payroll, for example. 00;21;49;24 - 00;21;56;20 Sonny Grappone Right. Because they don't have the bandwidth to look into that and kind of see what's drag them down. And, you know, I'll tell you a, 00;21;56;20 - 00;21;59;12 Sonny Grappone a good story about that. I just got a, 00;21;59;12 - 00;22;00;21 Sonny Grappone a physical therapist, 00;22;00;21 - 00;22;08;19 Sonny Grappone months ago, and I was on another podcast. He's not making any money. His revenues increased to $8 million a year. 00;22;08;19 - 00;22;28;09 Sonny Grappone I look at his financials and I say, all right, let's take a look at financials. I said, let's compare 2024 to 2023, right. And let's compare the two. And we'll kind of see what's going on here. I look at his revenue his revenues 7.5 million exact in both years. His revenues stayed the same. I look at his payroll. 00;22;28;12 - 00;22;51;25 Sonny Grappone His payroll went up $550,000. So explain that to me. Your revenue stayed the same, but your payroll just went up $550,000. Why? And like you always see trend analysis. You always see the trends, right? If your revenue goes down, then you purchases clothing, your payroll goes down, it all falls into line. It all goes in correlations. So he just like I don't know, he had no answer for me. 00;22;51;25 - 00;23;03;23 Sonny Grappone He was embarrassed and I felt embarrassed for him. I really did. And we started digging in the holes over time that he can't afford on salary based employees, which was baffling me. He started, 00;23;03;23 - 00;23;04;16 Sonny Grappone paying out, 00;23;04;16 - 00;23;11;25 Sonny Grappone benefits, you know, extra benefits that he was paying for. That was astronomical. He had this 41K guy that he was paying big time, 00;23;11;25 - 00;23;13;08 Sonny Grappone admin fees to. 00;23;13;11 - 00;23;27;27 Sonny Grappone So at the end of the day, when it was all said and done, now he's in the green, he made all the cuts that he knew he needed to make, and it's finally profitable. We signed him up for a wellness program. It ended up saving him. So far in six months, he saved close up to $35,000 right now. 00;23;27;28 - 00;23;38;22 Sonny Grappone Then he held up saving 70 grand. Well, that well, this program, you know, like, so like these are the things that we're doing for them that, you know, people, the value that people need to see if they're willing to hear it. 00;23;38;24 - 00;23;41;28 Craig Andrews Well, let's say I've, I've learned a lot. 00;23;41;28 - 00;23;46;00 Craig Andrews The I've never heard about that. That's pretty amazing. 00;23;46;00 - 00;23;55;29 Craig Andrews What? So if you have one thought that you want to leave somebody with before we wrap up, what would that one thought? They. 00;23;56;01 - 00;24;00;08 Sonny Grappone I think, yeah, we were talking about before, like I said, 00;24;00;08 - 00;24;06;04 Sonny Grappone you know, look at yourself like an investment, right? That your worth it, you know, 00;24;06;04 - 00;24;10;14 Sonny Grappone as I said to you before, from Park Avenue to Park Bench, it doesn't matter your circumstance. 00;24;10;14 - 00;24;12;28 Sonny Grappone You got to be willing to work for what you want. You know that. 00;24;12;29 - 00;24;28;09 Sonny Grappone You know, life is not fair, all right? Everybody has to work harder than the next guy. Yeah, we're just in different. We're just in different stages of the pyramid. Right? You know, some are up top, somewhere in the middle, somewhere on the bottom below. And if you're below, you have to work that much harder than the next person. 00;24;28;09 - 00;24;51;07 Sonny Grappone But that's what builds character, right? That's what builds work ethic. You can't teach people work ethic. Yeah, that's a talent. And don't get me wrong, there is a talent into this whole thing. You know, you can't teach someone to be Steph Curry or Michael Jordan, right? But you know what? If you had to work right? Work ethic, I guarantee you, like my mother, like myself, you can work yourself through the ranks and open up your own business if you really put your mind to it. 00;24;51;07 - 00;25;08;09 Sonny Grappone But are you really willing to sacrifice the time and the energy? Yeah, so I say that is like, you know, if you really want to go out and do it, you know, value yourself, see if you can do that, if you can take the time, you know, start off with a couple goals, solid start accomplishing like 1 or 2 goals a week, right? 00;25;08;09 - 00;25;16;29 Sonny Grappone See what your time is worth and what you're doing with your time. You know, because it goes by very fast. And the older you get, the harder it's going to get. You know? So I say that, you know, 00;25;16;29 - 00;25;18;15 Sonny Grappone to leave you off. 00;25;18;18 - 00;25;22;16 Craig Andrews Wow. That's awesome. And sunny, how can people reach you? 00;25;22;18 - 00;25;25;09 Sonny Grappone So you can go to Precision Accounting and consulting, 00;25;25;09 - 00;25;26;18 Sonny Grappone dot com. And if you, 00;25;26;18 - 00;25;29;23 Sonny Grappone local precision accounting consulting. Melville, New York. 00;25;29;23 - 00;25;32;26 Sonny Grappone We should come up. Yeah, because there's a couple of precision accountants and, 00;25;32;26 - 00;25;38;14 Sonny Grappone you could reach out to us. So there you can look up Sonic Report on LinkedIn also. And, you can also look for our podcast, 00;25;38;14 - 00;25;39;18 Sonny Grappone The Profit Principle. 00;25;39;18 - 00;25;46;05 Sonny Grappone It's on YouTube and Spotify where we give some tax tips and accounting tips to individuals and businesses. 00;25;46;07 - 00;25;49;13 Craig Andrews Well that's awesome. Well, thanks for coming on, Leaders and Legacies. 00;25;49;15 - 00;25;54;20 Sonny Grappone Thank you. Thank you for having me. I had a great time. Thank you again. 00;25;54;20 - 00;26;21;16 Craig Andrews This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this 00;26;21;16 - 00;26;23;11 Craig Andrews episode on social media. 00;26;23;13 - 00;26;46;23 Craig Andrews Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest. Tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything. 00;26;46;25 - 00;26;55;00 Craig Andrews Please go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up. Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me. 00;26;55;00 - 00;28;57;05 Craig Andrews It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. 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