Episode #236: Why Justin Dixon Quit a Six-Figure Job to Build a Recruiting Firm During a Crisis

Justin Dixon walked away from a comfortable six-figure job and launched a recruiting firm—just weeks before the world shut down. In this episode, he joins Craig Andrews to unpack what it really takes to lead when the timing couldn’t be worse.

Justin shares the personal finance moves he and his wife made to de-risk the leap, and why reading Rich Dad Poor Dad flipped his entire outlook on life and career. He talks about navigating COVID as a new business owner, giving away free career advice when no one was hiring, and how that generosity paid off later.

He also dives into how most business owners misunderstand recruiters—and the small moves that can drastically improve your odds of landing A-players. From running triathlons to running a company, Justin reveals the parallels between endurance sports and entrepreneurial grit.

Want to learn more about Justin Dixon's work? Check out their website at https://www.hiretomorrow.com.

Connect with Justin Dixon on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmdixon15/.

KEY POINTS + TIMESTAMPS

[00:01:09] — Justin’s intro: Founder, investor, endurance athlete, and host of Growth Capital Podcast
[00:04:08] — Why Justin took on Ironman without owning a bike or swimming experience
[00:08:48] — Why Justin started Hire Tomorrow after reading Rich Dad Poor Dad
[00:10:56] — Downsizing their life to go all-in on entrepreneurship
[00:11:18] — Launching a business at the start of COVID—and refusing to give up
[00:13:00] — Helping jobseekers during COVID with real recruiting advice
[00:15:25] — “I made half as much in 2020... but I played the long game.”
[00:16:36] — What business owners get wrong about resumes, recruiters, and job listings
[00:21:29] — The two-resume strategy every serious applicant should know
[00:24:25] — The one question candidates should ask every recruiter
[00:26:00] — What business owners should really ask their recruiting firm
[00:27:09] — Justin’s contact info and plug for Growth Capital Podcast

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;01;09;22
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Justin Dixon. He is the founder of Hire Tomorrow. They are an executive search firm specializing in helping private equity firms, startups and midsize companies build the right leadership team to scale.

00;01;09;22 - 00;01;15;08
Craig Andrews
Justin's done Ironman and Arizona, which seems bold to me.

00;01;15;08 - 00;01;29;06
Craig Andrews
He's also the host of Growth Capital Podcast, where he interviews private equity leaders, portfolio companies, CEOs and founders to uncover insights on scaling businesses beyond recruiting.

00;01;29;06 - 00;01;42;15
Craig Andrews
Just as an angel investor, a real estate investor, and an endurance athlete, including completing the four aforementioned Ironman. Justin, welcome.

00;01;42;18 - 00;01;44;05
Justin Dixon
Thank you. Happy to be here.

00;01;44;08 - 00;01;47;25
Craig Andrews
I should mention you also live in Austin, which is pretty great.

00;01;47;28 - 00;01;49;12
Justin Dixon
Yeah, we should have done this in real person

00;01;49;12 - 00;01;51;13
Justin Dixon
in real life, as they say, right?

00;01;51;16 - 00;01;52;01
Craig Andrews
Well,

00;01;52;01 - 00;01;56;24
Craig Andrews
we could if I have a studio set up for that, but I don't. Oh, well.

00;01;56;24 - 00;01;58;23
Craig Andrews
But, yeah, you're up in Cedar Park,

00;01;58;23 - 00;02;08;18
Craig Andrews
kind of, which is northwest of Austin and BC, which is a little bit southwest or. Yep, I guess technically due west, but we consider ourselves southwest.

00;02;08;20 - 00;02;11;02
Justin Dixon
We. Yeah. No, it's great.

00;02;11;04 - 00;02;12;12
Craig Andrews
Yeah. It's,

00;02;12;12 - 00;02;14;29
Craig Andrews
you know, was funny when I first moved to Austin.

00;02;14;29 - 00;02;21;29
Craig Andrews
I was having breakfast with a buddy up at Kirby Lane. Up for, I think, golf 183 or somewhere up in north.

00;02;21;29 - 00;02;23;08
Justin Dixon
All right.

00;02;23;10 - 00;02;24;25
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And,

00;02;24;25 - 00;02;42;21
Craig Andrews
and I looked at the guy I was having breakfast with. I said, you know, I don't think game by any of our waitresses or waiters are qualified to work here. And he said, why is that? I said, they limit themselves to one piercing and they don't have any tattoos. And he laughed. He's like, well, you're used to South Austin.

00;02;42;21 - 00;02;44;29
Craig Andrews
It's different up here. Yeah.

00;02;45;02 - 00;02;49;28
Justin Dixon
Yeah. There's definitely it's funny because we when my wife and I moved here five years ago, I feel like everybody that we meet,

00;02;49;28 - 00;02;54;12
Justin Dixon
lives in South Austin. So it's very, very rare that we find people,

00;02;54;12 - 00;02;57;13
Justin Dixon
at networking events or whatever that live north of the river.

00;02;57;13 - 00;02;59;12
Justin Dixon
And people that don't know Austin.

00;02;59;12 - 00;03;02;24
Justin Dixon
People live north of the river, stay north of river, and people of South River say South River.

00;03;02;24 - 00;03;02;29
Justin Dixon
It's,

00;03;02;29 - 00;03;03;19
Justin Dixon
typically it's,

00;03;03;19 - 00;03;06;01
Justin Dixon
it traffic is a nightmare,

00;03;06;01 - 00;03;09;13
Justin Dixon
of going crossing over. So, yeah, it's kind of interesting.

00;03;09;15 - 00;03;16;14
Craig Andrews
Yeah, it's it's funny, I, I'm, like, barely south of the river. You know, I mention that I live next to a nature preserve.

00;03;16;20 - 00;03;17;07
Justin Dixon
Yeah.

00;03;17;09 - 00;03;29;01
Craig Andrews
And I, you know, if I go down the preserve literally just steps from my house, I can be down at the river in about 40 minutes.

00;03;29;03 - 00;03;30;04
Justin Dixon
Oh that's cool.

00;03;30;06 - 00;03;31;23
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah it's nice. I

00;03;31;23 - 00;03;34;06
Craig Andrews
I used to go swimming off that and

00;03;34;06 - 00;03;43;26
Craig Andrews
the last time I went swimming was just a few days before I got Covid, which ended very, very well. Not as badly as others, but when in the hospital for three months.

00;03;43;28 - 00;03;44;26
Justin Dixon
Oh my God.

00;03;44;29 - 00;03;48;24
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if I have the lungs,

00;03;48;24 - 00;03;51;14
Craig Andrews
to swim because there's a little bit of current in Lake Austin.

00;03;51;16 - 00;03;52;04
Justin Dixon
Yeah.

00;03;52;07 - 00;03;57;16
Craig Andrews
And so I've been scared that because it's, it's really deep water there. So I've been scared to jump off the,

00;03;57;16 - 00;04;00;12
Craig Andrews
the pier and into that current.

00;04;00;15 - 00;04;01;18
Justin Dixon
Yeah. No, definitely,

00;04;01;18 - 00;04;05;12
Justin Dixon
definitely don't want to risk it. That would, could end poorly, for sure.

00;04;05;15 - 00;04;08;20
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So anyway, well, I mean,

00;04;08;20 - 00;04;11;17
Craig Andrews
so first let's talk about the Ironman. That's kind of interesting.

00;04;11;17 - 00;04;18;20
Craig Andrews
What compelled you to do an Ironman? What what what drives you to make health focus or athletic?

00;04;18;22 - 00;04;20;15
Justin Dixon
Yeah. I grew up playing soccer.

00;04;20;15 - 00;04;28;06
Justin Dixon
So. And then I never had done an Ironman, never did a triathlon, and then I, I had known a couple of friends that,

00;04;28;06 - 00;04;33;14
Justin Dixon
had done an Ironman, and I was looking for something challenging for 20, 22.

00;04;33;14 - 00;04;37;10
Justin Dixon
And so the New Year's Eve, before I told my wife I was like, I'm going to do an Ironman.

00;04;37;13 - 00;04;43;18
Justin Dixon
And like I said, I didn't own a bike, I didn't, I never I hadn't been in a pool to swim laps since I was probably 7 or 8.

00;04;43;18 - 00;04;46;07
Justin Dixon
So I had to learn how to swim properly. I had to get a bike,

00;04;46;07 - 00;04;51;01
Justin Dixon
and actually learn how to ride the bike, you know, like a like a road bike and like a tri bike.

00;04;51;03 - 00;04;54;16
Justin Dixon
I done a few marathons, so I felt very comfortable about the run.

00;04;54;16 - 00;05;02;00
Justin Dixon
But, yeah, I decided to kind of jump in with both feet, so I started I did my first triathlon in May here in Austin, the cap Texas.

00;05;02;00 - 00;05;08;23
Justin Dixon
And then I progressed the distances for two more triathlons, one in Waco and one in Kerrville.

00;05;08;23 - 00;05;11;04
Justin Dixon
And then I did the full Ironman in November in,

00;05;11;04 - 00;05;16;02
Justin Dixon
in Arizona. So I kind of went entire year, just focused on training,

00;05;16;02 - 00;05;22;24
Justin Dixon
while running my business and, you know, trying to be a family man and all the other fun stuff. But a lot of my weekends were set back here on this,

00;05;22;24 - 00;05;25;13
Justin Dixon
bike on my trainer just spinning away,

00;05;25;13 - 00;05;27;03
Justin Dixon
so I could hopefully not die.

00;05;27;03 - 00;05;29;24
Justin Dixon
And completely Ironman, which was the goal, so. Yeah.

00;05;29;26 - 00;05;35;28
Craig Andrews
Wow. What what's the elevation in in was in Phoenix. Was it in the Phoenix area or somewhere else?

00;05;36;00 - 00;05;37;14
Justin Dixon
It's in Tempe, so it's right on like,

00;05;37;14 - 00;05;39;10
Justin Dixon
like Scottsdale. Tempe. Right by,

00;05;39;10 - 00;05;44;03
Justin Dixon
Arizona State University is right there. I don't know the elevation, but it's pretty low. I would think.

00;05;44;06 - 00;05;47;09
Craig Andrews
It's a little lower because we're like 900ft here.

00;05;47;11 - 00;05;50;14
Justin Dixon
Yeah, I would have to Google it, to be completely honest.

00;05;50;14 - 00;05;52;02
Justin Dixon
I'm guessing it's probably similar.

00;05;52;02 - 00;05;53;05
Justin Dixon
But but yeah, it was,

00;05;53;05 - 00;05;58;03
Justin Dixon
luckily it was in November and not like July or August, when obviously it would have been very, very hot in,

00;05;58;03 - 00;06;00;13
Justin Dixon
in Arizona. It was was pretty temperate.

00;06;00;15 - 00;06;05;28
Craig Andrews
Wow. Yeah. And the reason I was asking. So I was recovering from Covid, my legs were like a human,

00;06;05;28 - 00;06;21;11
Craig Andrews
altimeter. And I flew to Vegas once, and soon as I landed, I'm walking through the airport. I'm like, I'm a different elevation, you know, I can't feel my legs. And but of course I was really sensitive to oxygen supply back then.

00;06;21;14 - 00;06;29;18
Craig Andrews
Yeah. It made me wonder because if you're doing all your training at one elevation, you're competing at another elevation that can make a big difference.

00;06;29;20 - 00;06;30;18
Justin Dixon
Oh, yeah. Like,

00;06;30;18 - 00;06;33;20
Justin Dixon
we visited a friend of ours a bit that lives.

00;06;33;20 - 00;06;35;13
Justin Dixon
We have two friends that live in Colorado,

00;06;35;13 - 00;06;39;27
Justin Dixon
just south of Denver, near Colorado Springs. And one, one friend, we went and visited,

00;06;39;27 - 00;06;46;21
Justin Dixon
they live kind of at the normal kind of mile high height. And then our other friend lived farther up into the mountains.

00;06;46;21 - 00;06;54;28
Justin Dixon
And, I mean, I wasn't around doing an Ironman or doing any running, but even just walking and hiking, you know, at the different elevations is completely different.

00;06;54;28 - 00;07;03;20
Justin Dixon
So if you train at sea level or close to sea level, where we are, and you try to do a race, you know, in the, in the Highlands, if you will, it's definitely a negative impact.

00;07;03;20 - 00;07;09;25
Justin Dixon
However, if you train up north in like the elevation and do an event closer to sea level,

00;07;09;25 - 00;07;20;27
Justin Dixon
I've talked to a buddy of mine. He does a bunch of endurance races and he's like, I love training at elevation and then doing a race like in Austin because you feel like a superman, because you're able to breathe a lot better,

00;07;20;27 - 00;07;22;27
Justin Dixon
than people that just train, train locally.

00;07;22;27 - 00;07;23;20
Justin Dixon
So,

00;07;23;20 - 00;07;26;15
Justin Dixon
so yeah, that's why, you know, I watch a lot of tour de France and a lot of,

00;07;26;15 - 00;07;43;26
Justin Dixon
cycling while I was sitting on my trainer. And so whenever they go and get prepared for the tour de France or in these big races, they do a lot of elevation training, or altitude training. And so they, they train a high altitude because when you're going up the Alps, in the Pyrenees, you go up to way higher altitudes than, than,

00;07;43;26 - 00;07;44;18
Justin Dixon
you know, where we work.

00;07;44;18 - 00;07;46;24
Justin Dixon
So, yeah, it's pretty interesting.

00;07;46;27 - 00;07;49;01
Craig Andrews
You know, one time I was driving down,

00;07;49;01 - 00;08;06;27
Craig Andrews
capital Texas Highway, you know, from 183, and I see the cyclist, and it looked like there was some car hounding them. I'm like, why are you hounding this poor guy? And as I got closer, I realized, oh, no, that's a support vehicle. And as I pull up side by side, I looked over.

00;08;06;28 - 00;08;09;26
Craig Andrews
Was Lance Armstrong going down? Capital of Texas?

00;08;09;26 - 00;08;14;05
Justin Dixon
Oh that's crazy. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. I do not ride my bike.

00;08;14;05 - 00;08;22;03
Justin Dixon
Outdoors in Texas. I've known way too many people that have were either training for almonds or races and have been hit by cars.

00;08;22;03 - 00;08;29;09
Justin Dixon
Bent. Yeah. So most of my training for the Ironman have been was in this, in this room, stationary on the bike.

00;08;29;12 - 00;08;32;17
Justin Dixon
I did a few outdoor rides, but very in very contained areas,

00;08;32;17 - 00;08;35;20
Justin Dixon
near where I live. Just because, yeah, there's a lot of,

00;08;35;20 - 00;08;40;27
Justin Dixon
I've heard about a lot of accidents from, from, like, bicycles and cars and stuff. So I'd rather,

00;08;40;27 - 00;08;45;22
Justin Dixon
I'd rather not put myself in harm's way, in harm's way as much as I possibly can.

00;08;45;24 - 00;08;48;23
Craig Andrews
So let's switch gears a little bit and talk about hired tomorrow.

00;08;48;23 - 00;08;53;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah. What? Why did you start that? When did you start that?

00;08;53;21 - 00;08;54;18
Justin Dixon
Yeah. So,

00;08;54;18 - 00;08;56;00
Justin Dixon
just to back up two seconds.

00;08;56;00 - 00;09;03;29
Justin Dixon
I've been in recruiting my entire career, fell into the industry right out of college in 2006, work for a big recruiting firm.

00;09;03;29 - 00;09;11;13
Justin Dixon
And then kind of did what most people do and what I was taught from a financial kind of preparedness perspective,

00;09;11;13 - 00;09;21;05
Justin Dixon
was get a good job, invest in your 41K, and then hope you've got enough money in your retirement account when you're supposed to retire at 65 or 70 or whatever the time frame is.

00;09;21;08 - 00;09;32;10
Justin Dixon
And so I was driving down that road. I was, you know, investing my for one K had a really good job at a big company. And, and then I read a book called Rich dad, Poor Dad.

00;09;32;10 - 00;09;39;18
Justin Dixon
And it really kind of flipped the narrative in my brain around where I should be investing my time, my money.

00;09;39;20 - 00;09;40;14
Justin Dixon
And I was married to that,

00;09;40;14 - 00;09;55;20
Justin Dixon
to my wife. And I was like, oh, crap. My brain is kind of shifted. I kind of think I'm thinking about maybe quitting my job at some point and building a business. Hopefully she's okay with that. And so luckily she read the book as well and had the same kind of epiphany that was like, wow, we're we're working.

00;09;55;22 - 00;09;57;06
Justin Dixon
We're both working for the same company.

00;09;57;06 - 00;10;02;07
Justin Dixon
Comcast. So we're building this, you know, we're small fish in a very massive Comcast pond,

00;10;02;07 - 00;10;05;20
Justin Dixon
you know, helping to build this, you know, multi-billion dollar business. Right.

00;10;05;20 - 00;10;09;01
Justin Dixon
And so I was like, okay, I'm going to,

00;10;09;01 - 00;10;12;17
Justin Dixon
start a business. And I figured, why not start a business that I know a lot about?

00;10;12;17 - 00;10;13;26
Justin Dixon
And that's recruiting.

00;10;13;26 - 00;10;20;12
Justin Dixon
And so that's kind of what started the journey to to really kind of go full force into starting this business. But,

00;10;20;12 - 00;10;25;16
Justin Dixon
one thing we did kind of leading up to starting a business was we're both risk averse people.

00;10;25;16 - 00;10;31;20
Justin Dixon
And so we decided that I'm not the type person who's going to quit a job without a plan to move forward.

00;10;31;20 - 00;10;37;14
Justin Dixon
And so we spent about a year, year and a half getting our financial life in order,

00;10;37;14 - 00;10;39;16
Justin Dixon
we, you know, saved a bunch of money,

00;10;39;16 - 00;10;56;03
Justin Dixon
had. So we had a nest egg. We invested some money into two pieces into a duplex out in Pittsburgh. We had owned a condo in Philadelphia, so we moved out of the condo into a small apartment in the suburbs so that we had two passive income, you know, properties that were generating some income.

00;10;56;06 - 00;11;15;06
Justin Dixon
And while all of our friends were expanding their lifestyles, they were buying houses and buying bigger cars and moving to the suburbs and having kids. We were doing the opposite. We were shrinking our lifestyle, trying to shrink our expenses as much as we possibly could in the. And so that if I launched my business or when I launched my business,

00;11;15;06 - 00;11;18;16
Justin Dixon
all of our, all of our expenses were covered by my wife's salary.

00;11;18;16 - 00;11;28;22
Justin Dixon
So essentially setting us up so that I could go full force and, you know, start this business. And then I did. I quit my a nice six figure job,

00;11;28;22 - 00;11;38;04
Justin Dixon
in January of 2020 to start higher tomorrow, right as Covid was starting. So it was very, very poor timing. To start a business right before Covid, especially a, a recruiting business.

00;11;38;04 - 00;11;38;20
Justin Dixon
But,

00;11;38;20 - 00;11;39;23
Justin Dixon
we're still here and,

00;11;39;23 - 00;11;42;27
Justin Dixon
yeah, it's been been a journey for sure.

00;11;43;00 - 00;12;10;13
Craig Andrews
You know, the thing I've seen about Covid is it really separated people. And I know one guy, I'm not going to say his name, but I know one guy who. And, Rolodex that anybody would love to have just the most amazing Rolodex. And when right before Covid hit, he just he sold his business name to say he would go on the speaking circuit, became become a keynote speaker.

00;12;10;15 - 00;12;11;02
Craig Andrews
And,

00;12;11;02 - 00;12;20;02
Craig Andrews
I was talking to him like a few months after I got out of the hospital. I was in the hospital for three months. I was I shouldn't be here. I should be dead. And, well,

00;12;20;02 - 00;12;28;00
Craig Andrews
I'm talking to him a few months out of the hospital, and he's just, like, crying the blues about how hard Covid was, like.

00;12;28;02 - 00;12;31;19
Craig Andrews
Oh, thanks. Well, it nearly killed me, but, hey, let's talk about you.

00;12;31;22 - 00;12;32;28
Justin Dixon
Yeah, it's it's all relative.

00;12;32;28 - 00;12;33;11
Justin Dixon
Depending.

00;12;33;11 - 00;12;57;18
Craig Andrews
Yeah, but the thing that shocked me was he's like, yeah, I just completely ruined me. I was trying to start this keynote business, and I just remember thinking, you completely suck. I'd had so much respect for this guy. It's like you have a Rolodex that anybody would envy. Yeah. And you couldn't figure out how to turn that into money during Covid?

00;12;57;20 - 00;12;58;07
Justin Dixon
Yeah.

00;12;58;09 - 00;13;00;03
Craig Andrews
Where's your imagination?

00;13;00;05 - 00;13;02;21
Justin Dixon
I think a lot of people went into their shell. I think, you know,

00;13;02;21 - 00;13;06;26
Justin Dixon
obviously it was obviously difficult for everybody. Some people,

00;13;06;26 - 00;13;13;25
Justin Dixon
like yourself, you know, almost lost a life. Some people did. Right. And so me starting a business and having a challenge of starting a business is,

00;13;13;25 - 00;13;14;25
Justin Dixon
again, it's relative.

00;13;14;25 - 00;13;19;18
Justin Dixon
But I think some people that I know, they went into their shell, they pulled the ripcord.

00;13;19;18 - 00;13;29;00
Justin Dixon
I know a few people that work that had started businesses years prior got scared and were like, I don't know how long this is going to last. And they try it. They went back into the workforce.

00;13;29;00 - 00;13;36;13
Justin Dixon
Fair enough. And so I didn't have that luxury necessarily, because, you know, there were days where I thought about, what the heck have I done?

00;13;36;16 - 00;13;37;29
Justin Dixon
I've essentially ruined our

00;13;37;29 - 00;13;39;27
Justin Dixon
my, you know, my wife and I had financial lives,

00;13;39;27 - 00;13;41;15
Justin Dixon
you know, my career is ended,

00;13;41;15 - 00;13;51;14
Justin Dixon
you know, etc., etc.. And so even if I wanted to try to go back into the W-2 world as a recruitment leader or something like that, nobody's hiring. So it's like I couldn't even, you know, there was no fallback.

00;13;51;14 - 00;13;53;13
Justin Dixon
It was really just keep pushing,

00;13;53;13 - 00;13;57;28
Justin Dixon
get through it as best I possibly could. Luckily, I had a very, very supportive wife and still do. And,

00;13;57;28 - 00;14;01;20
Justin Dixon
you know, it was not an easy call it 12 months.

00;14;01;20 - 00;14;08;28
Justin Dixon
But it was to your point, it kind of set me up to say, okay, well, if I can get through that, I can get through pretty much anything,

00;14;08;28 - 00;14;09;20
Justin Dixon
business wise.

00;14;09;21 - 00;14;10;04
Justin Dixon
Right.

00;14;10;04 - 00;14;20;04
Justin Dixon
And so, yeah, I think it made some businesses very resilient, especially if you started or very early in your entrepreneur journey during Covid and others. It, it kind of,

00;14;20;04 - 00;14;34;03
Justin Dixon
weeded out the weak. And, you know, it made the ones that stuck through it more prosperous. Once we got out of 2020 and into 2021, and then everybody was hiring and people were working remotely and moving all over the country and salaries were inflated.

00;14;34;03 - 00;14;36;29
Justin Dixon
So from a recruiting firm perspective, it was great.

00;14;36;29 - 00;14;37;10
Justin Dixon
At that point,

00;14;37;10 - 00;14;38;20
Justin Dixon
and we had moved to Austin,

00;14;38;20 - 00;14;41;09
Justin Dixon
my wife got a job offer down here in,

00;14;41;09 - 00;14;42;06
Justin Dixon
with a tech startup.

00;14;42;06 - 00;14;44;13
Justin Dixon
And we moved here sight unseen. We never been to Austin.

00;14;44;13 - 00;14;49;18
Justin Dixon
So, you know, she got the job offer, and I remember her telling me I'm like, well, we don't have to move there, like, fully remote.

00;14;49;18 - 00;14;56;02
Justin Dixon
She's like, I'm moving to Austin, so if you want to come, I'll. I'll see you there. Or you can stay here. So we moved to Austin,

00;14;56;02 - 00;14;56;15
Justin Dixon
and,

00;14;56;15 - 00;14;57;14
Justin Dixon
and. Yeah, it's been,

00;14;57;14 - 00;14;59;13
Justin Dixon
it's been an interesting, you know, ride or last,

00;14;59;13 - 00;15;01;08
Justin Dixon
you know, five years.

00;15;01;11 - 00;15;13;09
Craig Andrews
So what were the things where were the opportunities you saw during Covid that that helped you thrive? Because a lot, you know, a lot of businesses died. Yeah.

00;15;13;11 - 00;15;25;29
Justin Dixon
I would say I think I'll use thrive in a little bit of a different kind of word, a way, because the business itself here tomorrow did not overwhelmingly thrive in 2020.

00;15;25;29 - 00;15;34;25
Justin Dixon
However, I use that opportunity to help other people that were W-2 employees that got laid off or fired or whatever.

00;15;34;25 - 00;15;49;18
Justin Dixon
I kind of donated a lot of my time to help people try to navigate the job market and help them navigate what life was like to look for a job in 2020, when everything was now fully remote or, you know, fully remote for most jobs.

00;15;49;18 - 00;15;50;26
Justin Dixon
Right. And so,

00;15;50;26 - 00;16;13;21
Justin Dixon
I spent a lot of time, free time just talking to people, explaining to them what the job and recruiting process looks like for me, recruiters perspective, because everybody thinks I create a resume for the hiring manager, the people the person is going to actually make me an offer. Let's not really the case. You're making a resume to get through the recruiter, through the ATS and then to the hiring manager.

00;16;13;21 - 00;16;32;12
Justin Dixon
So a lot of people don't realize that there are other steps in the process before your resume lands on your your ultimate potential future boss's desk. And so I tried I talked to a lot people a lot about like, you know, the resume and how to interview and how to talk to recruiters and how to negotiate with recruiters and how, you know what what incentivizes a recruiter.

00;16;32;18 - 00;16;36;11
Justin Dixon
It's different if you're a corporate recruiter or if you're an agency recruiter. And so,

00;16;36;11 - 00;16;38;17
Justin Dixon
so I just used that time,

00;16;38;17 - 00;16;42;05
Justin Dixon
to really help other people as much as I possibly could,

00;16;42;05 - 00;16;48;06
Justin Dixon
and then really lean on a lot of the, the network that I had built. I definitely don't have a Rolodex like your friend. It sounds like,

00;16;48;06 - 00;16;54;09
Justin Dixon
and and luckily, I had a few clients that really they were hiring, and they gave me the opportunity to work with them.

00;16;54;09 - 00;16;57;24
Justin Dixon
And I'm grateful for them that we they were able to do that. And then,

00;16;57;24 - 00;16;59;17
Justin Dixon
at least get me through that first year.

00;16;59;17 - 00;17;04;15
Justin Dixon
I made about half as much money in 2020 as I did in 2019 as a W-2 employee. But,

00;17;04;15 - 00;17;12;14
Justin Dixon
but then it was off the races. Like I said, in 2021. So it was just more I kind of took a breath and made sure that I gave back.

00;17;12;14 - 00;17;20;07
Justin Dixon
And not just I didn't just sit in my in my home or my my apartment and sulk because I could have done that. It was been super easy to do that.

00;17;20;07 - 00;17;33;08
Justin Dixon
I started training for a trail run. I never done trail runs before, and so I was like, all right, I want to use this as an opportunity to reset a little bit, focus on helping people as much as I can, and eventually that will pay off.

00;17;33;08 - 00;17;35;17
Justin Dixon
Business will come. We'll get through this.

00;17;35;17 - 00;17;42;02
Justin Dixon
And of course, we never knew exactly what was going to happen. But, you know, I kind of, hopefully I was hoping that that would not last forever.

00;17;42;02 - 00;17;43;14
Justin Dixon
And luckily, it didn't.

00;17;43;17 - 00;17;57;20
Craig Andrews
But you know what it reminds me of? And I forget who it was, but it's one of the Hollywood studio execs. He would take, like, an hour every morning and call four or 5 or 6 people. Just real short phone call.

00;17;57;20 - 00;18;04;19
Craig Andrews
Hey, what are you working on? How can I support what you're doing? And and he did that every day.

00;18;04;19 - 00;18;05;23
Justin Dixon
Interesting.

00;18;05;25 - 00;18;22;05
Craig Andrews
And the net result was eventually a lot of these people became famous. Or some of those people became famous. And by giving in advance, you know, they pulled him up and sounds like that, that was kind of what you were doing during Covid.

00;18;22;08 - 00;18;24;16
Justin Dixon
Yeah, I would say I didn't have a thought or a strategy around it.

00;18;24;16 - 00;18;33;16
Justin Dixon
To be honest, it was more or less I have a skill set because I've been, you know, I've only done recruiting is all I've ever done in my life. I've helped every pretty much every industry,

00;18;33;16 - 00;18;38;07
Justin Dixon
you can think of. I've hired everything from a CEO to a forklift driver and everything in between.

00;18;38;09 - 00;18;50;16
Justin Dixon
And so I was just like, I have experience, I have knowledge, and I can share that with people that are struggling. And, you know, you know, if you looked at LinkedIn and social media, obviously there was a lot of,

00;18;50;16 - 00;18;54;23
Justin Dixon
posts out there were people like, I, you know, I can't make, you know, my rent payments or whatever, I need a job.

00;18;54;23 - 00;18;58;25
Justin Dixon
And not that I could give them a job, but I could at least hopefully give them some skills,

00;18;58;25 - 00;19;03;08
Justin Dixon
and some lessons that they can then hopefully put themselves in a better position to, to find a job,

00;19;03;08 - 00;19;10;10
Justin Dixon
etc., etc.. So. So yeah, I didn't have a real goal. It was really just like it was partially selfish for me to,

00;19;10;10 - 00;19;13;04
Justin Dixon
not just sit at my home and do nothing.

00;19;13;06 - 00;19;22;06
Justin Dixon
It was really just like, okay, well, I need to, I need to I need a purpose to get out of bed in the morning and need a purpose to get up. And that was kind of the the goal and the purpose for the for a few months,

00;19;22;06 - 00;19;28;19
Justin Dixon
until business started to come in and then and then it was heads down, fill as much business as I possibly could.

00;19;28;22 - 00;19;32;01
Justin Dixon
Because that's how I make money, is helping companies find people.

00;19;32;01 - 00;19;34;29
Justin Dixon
And and just kept riding the ride. The rollercoaster, if you will.

00;19;34;29 - 00;19;35;09
Justin Dixon
And,

00;19;35;09 - 00;19;37;04
Justin Dixon
luckily, it's it's been good,

00;19;37;04 - 00;19;40;00
Justin Dixon
ever since kind of 20, 21 turned over. So.

00;19;40;03 - 00;19;57;09
Craig Andrews
Well, yeah. Another thing that you said as a marketer that just kind of filled my heart with joy when I heard you say it was, know who you're speaking to. You think you're speaking to the hiring manager, you have a recruiter. And I mean, and that's just like as a marketer, I'm like, that's like one of the most central concepts.

00;19;57;14 - 00;20;13;25
Craig Andrews
Who are you talking to? Yeah, you know, I know people that are like, well, our customers are exclusively CEOs. I'm like, I hope your strategy is not only to reach CEOs, but to reach the people who have the ear of the CEO. And what do they need to hear?

00;20;14;01 - 00;20;15;18
Justin Dixon
Yeah.

00;20;15;21 - 00;20;30;09
Craig Andrews
For the podcast, you know, it's funny, I have people occasionally an email gets through and somebody is like pitching me directly for the podcast and I don't I, you know, when the way I got your name was you, you made it through Elena's filter.

00;20;30;09 - 00;20;35;01
Craig Andrews
Yeah. I'm like, that's the one who figures out who she recommends to me.

00;20;35;04 - 00;20;47;21
Craig Andrews
And I do kind of a final review. And it's funny, a lot of people don't understand, you know, whether it's a podcast or a job, you're probably not pitch in to the person you think you're pitching to.

00;20;47;23 - 00;21;07;00
Justin Dixon
Right? Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, and this is not a true in all all scenarios, but most recruiters have not done the job they're recruiting for, right? I've placed a lot of software engineers. I've never coded a day in my life and don't know what what actually that looks like, right? I, I've placed a lot of CPAs and accountants and investment professionals.

00;21;07;00 - 00;21;29;04
Justin Dixon
I'm not an accountant or an investment professional. So, you know, part of what I would tell people is like, you should really have two resumes. You should have one that is your application and recruiter resume that is very geared to the job description so that they can quickly look at your resume amongst all of the other applicants that they have, or all the other candidates that they're looking at and say, yep, this person looks good enough for me to move forward with and spend more time with.

00;21;29;07 - 00;21;37;23
Justin Dixon
And then you have the really pretty one that you have that's a PDF that is got, you know, cool fonts and colors and whatever. And that's the one that you save,

00;21;37;23 - 00;21;45;25
Justin Dixon
and send an email to the recruiter. Once you've made it to that first round of interviews of, hey, here's my updated resume, I just want to make sure you have the most recent one.

00;21;45;28 - 00;21;49;23
Justin Dixon
Because while AI is solving a lot of problems in the world,

00;21;49;23 - 00;21;55;03
Justin Dixon
they still haven't solved the parsing problem with applicant tracking systems and resumes. It's getting better.

00;21;55;03 - 00;22;07;03
Justin Dixon
But, you know, you should really get a resume. That is something that you used to apply. That's very informational. Not as attractively looking unless you're a graphic designer. That's maybe the only anomaly.

00;22;07;05 - 00;22;15;08
Justin Dixon
And then you have another resume that you are saving that is really pretty, that you essentially send to the recruiter or the hiring manager. Once you get to that stage of the interview.

00;22;15;08 - 00;22;16;18
Justin Dixon
That takes work effort.

00;22;16;18 - 00;22;23;26
Justin Dixon
Some people don't want to do that. So but that's, that's the whole goal is to get your goal for a resume is to get yourself past the recruiter.

00;22;24;01 - 00;22;36;08
Justin Dixon
They are the gatekeeper. They have the power to say yes or no. You don't realize that. I don't know why, but I have the power to say, yep, Craig, you look great. Or nope, I don't like the way you put that on your resume. I'm not going to move you forward.

00;22;36;08 - 00;22;41;27
Justin Dixon
And some recruiters have good days and bad days, and you may catch em on a bad day, and your resume doesn't get through, and you don't know why.

00;22;41;29 - 00;22;57;02
Craig Andrews
Yeah. You know, it's funny, there have been a number of situations where I was trying to persuade somebody that I knew I would never be able to talk to directly, and my goal was to be the most memorable person in their day.

00;22;57;02 - 00;23;00;25
Craig Andrews
Without being able to talk to them directly.

00;23;00;28 - 00;23;02;03
Justin Dixon
Yeah.

00;23;02;05 - 00;23;05;03
Craig Andrews
And so it would be a number of things like

00;23;05;22 - 00;23;06;16
Craig Andrews
there was

00;23;06;16 - 00;23;09;20
Craig Andrews
actually like a recent example, there was somebody who,

00;23;09;20 - 00;23;20;02
Craig Andrews
coaches people about how to come on camera and how to do all that. And I was sitting in a conference that's where I got her QR code scheduled, the time former, you know, news anchor.

00;23;20;04 - 00;23;20;25
Justin Dixon
Okay.

00;23;20;27 - 00;23;27;14
Craig Andrews
And I had to reschedule the interview. And so I started off,

00;23;27;14 - 00;23;42;18
Craig Andrews
the email, the subject line. It's been one of those days in Texas. And I started off saying the morning began with me going to the toilet and seeing a scorpion in the toilet. And the question was, was I going to conserve water and not flush?

00;23;42;18 - 00;23;47;29
Craig Andrews
Or when I flush first and then use the toilet and, and then

00;23;47;29 - 00;24;03;09
Craig Andrews
and so then the next problem was my AC broke. And that's kind of an issue in Texas. And yeah, and the first appointment I could get was during our scheduled time. Would you mind if we rescheduled?

00;24;03;09 - 00;24;08;15
Craig Andrews
And I guarantee it I was the most memorable person in her day.

00;24;08;18 - 00;24;11;20
Justin Dixon
Yeah I that that's for sure.

00;24;11;22 - 00;24;21;28
Craig Andrews
And so if I'm hearing you right, what you're saying is if you're trying to talk to a recruiter you wouldn't be at least one of the more memorable people in their day.

00;24;22;01 - 00;24;25;21
Justin Dixon
Oh yeah. I mean, if you get on the phone with the recruiter. Yes. You want to,

00;24;25;21 - 00;24;32;13
Justin Dixon
be as aligned with what they're looking for as you possibly can without lying, but also have a little bit of a hook.

00;24;32;13 - 00;24;42;22
Justin Dixon
Because, again, recruiters are just like anybody else. They're humans, and they they, you know, have three seconds to look at a resume to say yes or no if they're going to spend more time or they're going to pass.

00;24;42;24 - 00;24;43;17
Justin Dixon
And that's real,

00;24;43;17 - 00;25;04;04
Justin Dixon
because they're overworked like a lot of people in the working world. And so if you can get on a call with a recruiter, be respectful of their time, they are going to be respectful of yours. Know that they have a job to do, that their job is to take the top of the funnel applicants and people that they find and whittle it down to a handful of people that they deem qualified enough to move forward to the hiring manager.

00;25;04;04 - 00;25;23;28
Justin Dixon
So make sure that you check how many boxes you possibly can do you all your research and then, you know, be able to explain in a very succinct way why they should move you forward and ask them at the end of the interview. Based on the conversation we've just had, do you feel that I'm qualified for this role, and would you recommend moving me forward to the next round?

00;25;24;00 - 00;25;31;08
Justin Dixon
Nobody asks that very few people ask that, but that puts the recruiter on the spot. Some people will lie and say, sure, I'd love to move forward. Others don't. But

00;25;31;08 - 00;25;44;08
Justin Dixon
but yeah, it's it's all about getting to the next phase. So like anything, it's like be be good enough to get the next round and then while then when you get to the actual meat and potatoes and that's talking to the hiring team essentially.

00;25;44;10 - 00;25;47;16
Craig Andrews
Okay. Now we have a lot of,

00;25;47;16 - 00;26;00;05
Craig Andrews
business owners that listen to this show. Yep. As we wrap up, here's your chance. What does it business owners should know that they don't know when working with a recruiter.

00;26;00;07 - 00;26;01;08
Justin Dixon
There's a lot. I mean, this is,

00;26;01;08 - 00;26;18;07
Justin Dixon
I would say that the biggest thing that you should really think about when you're talking to a recruiter is know who the person is. It's actually going to be doing the recruiting, meaning who is a person? Like if you're working with an agency like myself, if, if, let's say my salesperson sells you the business, say, say, hey, Craig, we'd love to help you hire,

00;26;18;07 - 00;26;18;26
Justin Dixon
a CPA.

00;26;18;26 - 00;26;19;16
Justin Dixon
Right.

00;26;19;16 - 00;26;37;26
Justin Dixon
Justin is going to be the person that's doing the recruiting. You as a business owner want to talk to Justin? You want to talk to the recruiter? It's actually going to be selling to the the candidate. Why they should think about joining your company. Because if you think that my sales person who sold the business to you is a person doing the recruiting, they may, they most likely are not.

00;26;37;28 - 00;26;53;08
Justin Dixon
Sometimes it's a 20 year old kid that doesn't know they're asking their elbow like I was when I first started. But you want to give that recruiter all the ammo that they need to make sure that they can find the best talent for you because your time is money. If you're a business owner and you're the one doing the recruiting, you're probably a small business.

00;26;53;10 - 00;27;03;07
Justin Dixon
So you need to spend as little time as possible wasting time with bad candidates. So giving that recruiter the most information they need is going to save you a lot of time.

00;27;03;10 - 00;27;07;05
Craig Andrews
Very cool. Well, just this has been fascinating. Thanks for coming on.

00;27;07;05 - 00;27;09;09
Craig Andrews
How can people reach you?

00;27;09;12 - 00;27;17;02
Justin Dixon
Yeah. I mean, I'm all over LinkedIn, so check me out on LinkedIn. My email is just Jay Dixon. That's Dixon at hire tomorrow.com.

00;27;17;05 - 00;27;19;14
Craig Andrews
Excellent. And you're the host of the growth

00;27;19;14 - 00;27;21;05
Craig Andrews
capital podcast, correct?

00;27;21;05 - 00;27;22;05
Justin Dixon
Yeah. Check me out.

00;27;22;05 - 00;27;28;05
Justin Dixon
We interview startup founders, CEOs of private equity backed companies and people that are in the investing world. So it's,

00;27;28;05 - 00;27;35;02
Justin Dixon
an opportunity for startup founders to talk about what they do, why they started businesses similar to the kind of the conversations that I'm sure you have.

00;27;35;02 - 00;27;38;24
Justin Dixon
Yeah, it's a it's a lot of fun talking about the M&A world.

00;27;38;26 - 00;27;42;10
Craig Andrews
Very cool. Well, hey, Justin, thanks for coming on the leaders and legacies.

00;27;42;12 - 00;27;45;00
Justin Dixon
Thank you Greg. Appreciate it.

00;27;45;00 - 00;28;11;26
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;28;11;26 - 00;28;13;21
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00;28;13;23 - 00;28;37;03
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest. Tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.

00;28;37;05 - 00;28;45;10
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up. Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.

00;28;45;10 - 00;30;47;13
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.