Episode #238: Why Your CPA Isn’t Your Tax Strategist—And What to Do About It with Paden Squires

Paden Squires grew up in rural Missouri with firsthand experience of financial insecurity. That early exposure shaped his mission: help entrepreneurs grow wealth with clarity and confidence. In this episode, Paden breaks down why relying on your CPA for tax strategy is a mistake. Most CPAs are set up to file returns—not proactively plan.

He walks through high-impact tax strategies like the Augusta Rule and explains why business owners should think of tax strategy the same way they think about advertising: as an ROI tool, not an expense. With deep insight into entrepreneurial finance, Paden emphasizes building advisory relationships that prioritize long-term planning over reactive compliance.

He also sheds light on why so many accountants undervalue their work, run generic firms, and fail to deliver real value to business owners. If you’re running a 7-figure business and feel like you're leaving money on the table, this episode is your wake-up call.

Want to learn more about Paden Squires' work? Check out their website at https://www.squirestaxplanning.com/

Connect with Paden Squires on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/paden-squires-cpa-cfp-19681a1a/

Key Points with Timestamps

[00:51] Meet Paden Squires: CPA, CFP, and founder of Squires Tax Planning
[02:01] Why CPAs are not equipped for tax strategy
[03:04] Growing up with financial insecurity and its impact on Paden’s career
[04:44] Launching a firm from his living room in small-town Missouri
[05:26] Who Paden serves: 7-figure entrepreneurs, real estate, and more
[08:04] Why the Augusta Rule is a missed opportunity for most business owners
[10:36] Building processes to simplify tax strategy implementation
[13:05] Why most CPAs miss tax-saving strategies
[14:28] What to look for in a tax advisory relationship
[17:15] Taxes: your single biggest business expense
[18:33] Why tax planning beats Wall Street returns
[19:49] Learning from thousands of entrepreneurs builds strategic insight
[21:00] Lifetime customer value and smart marketing investments
[24:18] Paden's take on CAC, LTV, and scaling with confidence
[26:11] Why most CPAs leave money—and clients—on the table
[28:00] The most ‘salacious’ deduction request Paden has ever seen
[30:00] How to reach Paden and explore his resources

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;01;20;10
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Paden Squires. He is a CPA and a CFP. He's also the founder of Squires Tax Planning. They help business owners simplify tax and wealth strategies so they can grow with clarity and confidence. Their focus is proactive planning, long term impact and helping entrepreneurs align their finances with their biggest goals. Let me just say this.

00;01;20;13 - 00;01;26;16
Craig Andrews
If your CPA is your tax strategist, you've got a problem and you need to listen in.

00;01;26;16 - 00;01;28;03
Craig Andrews
Paden, welcome.

00;01;28;05 - 00;01;32;25
Paden Squires
Yeah. Thank you Craig, I appreciate it. I'm excited to be on the show.

00;01;32;27 - 00;01;40;07
Craig Andrews
And I realize you're a CPA. I'm not trying to diss that, but we'll get into that later. I hope I didn't offend you there.

00;01;40;09 - 00;01;42;14
Paden Squires
No offense.

00;01;42;16 - 00;01;59;18
Craig Andrews
But I think that's a I do think that's a mistake a lot of people make. They say, hey, my CPA is taking care of it. I can say from personal experience that I've gone to my, former CPA with more tax strategies than he brought to me.

00;01;59;25 - 00;02;01;04
Paden Squires
Yeah. Yeah.

00;02;01;04 - 00;02;01;19
Paden Squires
That's,

00;02;01;19 - 00;02;04;01
Paden Squires
what I would tell you, Craig, is very, very common.

00;02;04;01 - 00;02;17;08
Paden Squires
The industry's not really set up to do that. I mean, you know, most CPA firms are designed to be tax preparers and that that's that's fine. And they they prepare taxes and they do a really good job. But the issue is people like, you know, you go to them,

00;02;17;08 - 00;02;21;04
Paden Squires
looking for a service that they really don't provide.

00;02;21;06 - 00;02;24;00
Paden Squires
Is the is the thing you're going to them for something that,

00;02;24;00 - 00;02;27;27
Paden Squires
their businesses and set up to do, they're really just set up to prep taxes.

00;02;27;29 - 00;02;30;24
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Which is good. It's you.

00;02;30;27 - 00;02;37;24
Paden Squires
Yeah. It needs done. You're just not necessarily going to get what, you know, that that strategy piece from them.

00;02;37;24 - 00;02;41;00
Paden Squires
Unless they specifically designed their business to do that.

00;02;41;02 - 00;02;46;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, so let's let's go back in time. Where where did you grow up?

00;02;46;19 - 00;02;47;21
Craig Andrews
Where are you? Yeah.

00;02;47;24 - 00;02;48;19
Paden Squires
Yeah. So,

00;02;48;19 - 00;02;50;04
Paden Squires
very small town kid,

00;02;50;04 - 00;02;51;11
Paden Squires
from central Missouri.

00;02;51;11 - 00;02;59;00
Paden Squires
You know, currently I live in Columbia, Missouri, which is right in the middle of Missouri, but hour and a half outside of Kansas City. Saint Louis, home of the University of Missouri.

00;02;59;00 - 00;03;02;12
Paden Squires
I actually grew up in a little town outside of Columbia.

00;03;02;12 - 00;03;04;20
Paden Squires
Town of about a thousand people.

00;03;04;23 - 00;03;23;18
Paden Squires
So very, very rural farming area. Grew up on the Missouri River. You know, my story kind of goes back to, you know, growing up small town, growing up with single mom. You know, I had a dad kind of in and out of the house, struggled with alcohol and drugs and stuff over, over the years. So, you know, we had some financial insecurity.

00;03;23;21 - 00;03;27;18
Paden Squires
As a kid, my mom worked super hard raising two kids on her own,

00;03;27;18 - 00;03;30;21
Paden Squires
working multiple jobs. And she even got her MBA at night.

00;03;30;21 - 00;03;34;11
Paden Squires
Back, you know, back, you know, call it 20, 25 years ago.

00;03;34;11 - 00;03;41;28
Paden Squires
But but through all that, you know, my my mom certainly faced struggles, said some layoffs, and we had some financial insecurity at times like we weren't.

00;03;41;28 - 00;03;48;20
Paden Squires
You know, the poorest people in the world. But at the same time, like I could tell, like there was some strain there, you know, as a eight, ten year old kid.

00;03;48;20 - 00;03;57;19
Paden Squires
I certainly felt that. And it made a huge impression on me. I knew, you know, as that eight, ten year old, 12 year old. And in those years in there that I never wanted to be poor.

00;03;57;19 - 00;04;03;02
Paden Squires
I never wanted to have financial insecurity. And so that really motivated me to go into,

00;04;03;02 - 00;04;09;18
Paden Squires
the, the money space, you know, going through college and learning all I could about money. And I love majoring in finance and accounting.

00;04;09;18 - 00;04;15;16
Paden Squires
Came out of college in the 0809 kind of time frame. Everybody in finance was getting fired from the job.

00;04;15;16 - 00;04;20;21
Paden Squires
So who would hire me? So I ended up going going back and got my MBA.

00;04;20;21 - 00;04;23;20
Paden Squires
From there I worked a couple corporate jobs, figured out pretty quickly that,

00;04;23;20 - 00;04;27;27
Paden Squires
you know, working as an employee wasn't for me. I was much more entrepreneurial minded.

00;04;27;27 - 00;04;34;06
Paden Squires
While I was working for those jobs, studied in secret in my cubicle for the CPA exam, passed.

00;04;34;06 - 00;04;44;09
Paden Squires
All the parts of the exams, are all four parts of the CPA exam. Told my boss, hey, I'm out of here, quit my job, and opened up what eventually has become Squire's tax planning.

00;04;44;09 - 00;04;46;27
Paden Squires
I opened up that business in 2014,

00;04;46;27 - 00;04;53;10
Paden Squires
in my living room in little tiny Fayette, Missouri, and kind of grown it into the team and what it all is today.

00;04;53;13 - 00;04;55;22
Craig Andrews
That's cool. How big is the team?

00;04;55;24 - 00;04;57;16
Paden Squires
We're five five at the moment.

00;04;57;16 - 00;04;59;25
Paden Squires
Looking to expand from here?

00;04;59;27 - 00;05;05;20
Craig Andrews
Very cool. Very cool. And just out of curiosity, what what type of businesses do you typically work with?

00;05;05;23 - 00;05;06;08
Paden Squires
Yeah.

00;05;06;08 - 00;05;07;13
Paden Squires
It's it's really,

00;05;07;13 - 00;05;12;20
Paden Squires
what I would say is we're very entrepreneur focused, right? And business owner focused.

00;05;12;20 - 00;05;17;22
Paden Squires
It's not really industry specific. Well, like real estate, we do a ton in real estate because there's a whole lot of,

00;05;17;22 - 00;05;19;27
Paden Squires
tax planning that go into real estate.

00;05;19;27 - 00;05;26;08
Paden Squires
It's really just business owners that got, you know, enough revenue going on that, you know, there's a there's enough value could drive there.

00;05;26;08 - 00;05;30;00
Paden Squires
We say, you know, seven figure plus business owners because,

00;05;30;00 - 00;05;33;17
Paden Squires
almost in every one of those situations I can come in there and find,

00;05;33;17 - 00;05;36;21
Paden Squires
efficiencies that they aren't they aren't taking advantage.

00;05;36;21 - 00;05;38;21
Paden Squires
From a tax perspective.

00;05;38;23 - 00;05;41;21
Craig Andrews
Very cool. You know, it's it's interesting.

00;05;41;21 - 00;05;46;24
Craig Andrews
Growing up in a small town now, my I grew up in the town, 13,000,

00;05;46;24 - 00;05;57;06
Craig Andrews
a lot bigger than a thousand. Yeah. But, you know, my my wife occasionally talks about moving to a small town, and she's. She grew up in,

00;05;57;06 - 00;06;00;20
Craig Andrews
Arlington, Texas, and as,

00;06;00;20 - 00;06;03;03
Craig Andrews
you know, we met in Austin, Texas.

00;06;03;06 - 00;06;08;25
Craig Andrews
No, I said it's I said it's nice. There's a lot of nice things about it, but,

00;06;08;25 - 00;06;13;20
Craig Andrews
you will have no anonymity. Everybody will know you, and they'll know everything about you.

00;06;13;22 - 00;06;16;00
Paden Squires
Yeah.

00;06;16;02 - 00;06;16;16
Paden Squires
That is,

00;06;16;16 - 00;06;17;17
Paden Squires
That's so true. Right.

00;06;17;17 - 00;06;23;21
Paden Squires
The the one good piece is because, well, you know, the the little town I live shout out to Glasgow.

00;06;23;21 - 00;06;33;18
Paden Squires
My family was actually from another smaller town, probably ten miles away. So I was actually one of the few people in the town that wasn't related to literally everybody in the town.

00;06;33;20 - 00;06;39;09
Paden Squires
Because you're really is it? And to make things even more interesting, like this is a big Catholic town. So,

00;06;39;09 - 00;06;51;21
Paden Squires
it goes back to like, almost everybody my age, like, had the same great grandparents, you know, and they all had, you know, like ten kids. And it's really like 3 or 4 families, like making up. You know, the, the vast majority of the town.

00;06;51;21 - 00;07;00;02
Paden Squires
So there's like 5 or 6 last names and then a spattering of other lesser names. But, you know, a handful of families are make up the vast majority of the town.

00;07;00;04 - 00;07;07;25
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah. We had a little bit of that going on. There's a few names. Yeah, that were, you know, very common,

00;07;07;25 - 00;07;09;07
Craig Andrews
limits the dating pool.

00;07;09;09 - 00;07;16;01
Paden Squires
Yes, it does see, but I was a free agent. I was wide open, I didn't I wasn't limited.

00;07;16;03 - 00;07;18;06
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So,

00;07;18;06 - 00;07;23;14
Craig Andrews
and so that was really interesting that, you know, you come out,

00;07;23;14 - 00;07;25;08
Craig Andrews
come out. No. Eight in the middle of the,

00;07;25;08 - 00;07;27;15
Craig Andrews
the crisis. No. And,

00;07;27;15 - 00;07;33;00
Craig Andrews
you know, grad school, grad school is, like, always a check box. Can't get a job. Okay, go back.

00;07;33;03 - 00;07;37;04
Paden Squires
Go pay your student loans, go back to grad school.

00;07;37;07 - 00;07;41;18
Craig Andrews
Very cool. Now. And what was your, It was an MBA, not an MFA. Yeah.

00;07;41;25 - 00;07;43;14
Paden Squires
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I got,

00;07;43;14 - 00;07;48;16
Paden Squires
I got my bachelor's in business and majored in accounting and finance and management.

00;07;48;16 - 00;07;52;27
Paden Squires
And then, yeah, I just got, like, a generic MBA. From,

00;07;52;27 - 00;07;56;15
Paden Squires
my, my alma mater, Columbia College. Shout out to the.

00;07;56;17 - 00;07;59;07
Craig Andrews
Oh, very cool. So,

00;07;59;07 - 00;08;04;08
Craig Andrews
so let's dive into the tax strategy versus,

00;08;04;08 - 00;08;08;12
Craig Andrews
CPA, you know, and I'll just, I,

00;08;08;12 - 00;08;12;08
Craig Andrews
I was attending some talk and somebody started talking about the Augusta rule.

00;08;12;11 - 00;08;13;06
Paden Squires
Yeah.

00;08;13;09 - 00;08;18;11
Craig Andrews
And then I thought, well, I can do that. And I went to my,

00;08;18;11 - 00;08;42;26
Craig Andrews
CPA and he was like, oh, yeah. Yeah, that's something that's available. And I'm like, dude, you've been doing my taxes for like eight years. Yeah. When you mention that and, but I, I had to kind go in and do all the work, you know, including the strategy of, you know, what I was told was use Vrbo, you know, to get, you know.

00;08;42;26 - 00;08;44;09
Paden Squires
Like a yeah.

00;08;44;12 - 00;08;45;17
Craig Andrews
As a comp,

00;08;45;17 - 00;09;04;28
Craig Andrews
which I did. And then unfortunately, one of my neighbors, I'm in the neighborhood where you're not allowed to Vrbo, but I had a neighbor that put theirs out and was like a ridiculously high number. And so I was like, two doors down, you know, I can sit across his table from an order and say, here's my comp.

00;09;05;00 - 00;09;06;04
Craig Andrews
The one thing my,

00;09;06;04 - 00;09;19;01
Craig Andrews
accountant had me do was like, he's he he wasn't comfortable with me taking the full 24 hour rate, so he had me chop it down. I could argue that, but I know what you take on that.

00;09;19;03 - 00;09;23;09
Paden Squires
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the I guess a rule for, for listeners, I don't know if that is, is

00;09;23;09 - 00;09;27;15
Paden Squires
comes out of Augusta, Georgia, the Masters tournament. Right. The golf tournaments that's there.

00;09;27;15 - 00;09;31;01
Paden Squires
So those lovely people, Augusta, Georgia lobbied Congress to get,

00;09;31;01 - 00;09;37;27
Paden Squires
to where anybody in the United States can rent out their personal residence for up to 14 days per year, and I would pay income taxes on it.

00;09;37;27 - 00;09;46;05
Paden Squires
So people Augusta, Georgia, they all move out of town when everybody comes in for the tournament for two weeks, and they all rent out their houses and don't have to pay taxes on,

00;09;46;05 - 00;09;51;24
Paden Squires
so we can take advantage of that too, as business owners. And what we do is what Craig was kind of explaining. There is,

00;09;51;24 - 00;09;58;01
Paden Squires
you're hosting legitimate business meetings in your home and paying yourself a fair rental rate for that.

00;09;58;04 - 00;10;03;25
Paden Squires
So the important part, if you want to implement the strategy, is really making sure you document and,

00;10;03;25 - 00;10;11;20
Paden Squires
put into place all the pieces of, hey, this meeting actually occurred, here's lease agreements, here's comps, and we basis number off something real.

00;10;11;20 - 00;10;18;19
Paden Squires
All those things are important to putting in a place. But you're right. You know, when you went to your CPA, they didn't have any way to help you do that.

00;10;18;19 - 00;10;21;15
Paden Squires
Right? Or they just like, oh yeah, sure, you can do that.

00;10;21;15 - 00;10;36;14
Paden Squires
So we've designed a firm to help take advantage of a lot of those things. Right? So we have a we have a process around Augusta. We have a process around it, you know, clients that are working with us, that are planning with us and, you know, ultimately doing, doing taxes and stuff with us.

00;10;36;16 - 00;10;50;21
Paden Squires
Yeah, we implement that. That's a rule for everybody that can legitimately take advantage of it. And we develop a process to make it super easy to, to to sign off on meeting notes and lease agreements and all these things to where we store all that stuff for you guys.

00;10;50;21 - 00;11;00;28
Paden Squires
And it makes it super easy to do because, yeah, same time, I've told lots of people about the Augusta rule for years, and they'll go to their accountant in their account and be like, well, it's only, you know, it's probably going to save you a few thousand bucks.

00;11;00;28 - 00;11;17;29
Paden Squires
Do you really want to do all of it? And they're not motivated to do any of it because they just want to prep your taxes and they get pay to file your tax return. And so, you know, they've they've just never developed a process to make it super easy. And that's that's what we've done to try to make that super easy.

00;11;17;29 - 00;11;24;03
Paden Squires
So yeah we absolutely we're going to grab this few thousand dollars in tax savings. Why wouldn't we do it. It's just doing some documentation.

00;11;24;06 - 00;11;27;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's

00;11;27;19 - 00;11;39;24
Craig Andrews
you know, and it worked out for me. It's, you know, I, you know, I, I bought a neighborhood that when I bought, nobody knew it. Nobody knew about the suburb of Austin. And over time, it's,

00;11;39;24 - 00;11;41;28
Craig Andrews
the houses have appreciated significantly. So,

00;11;41;28 - 00;11;47;20
Craig Andrews
the rental rates. And so, like, my neighbors, their daily rental,

00;11;47;20 - 00;11;52;14
Craig Andrews
on that house is like $3,200, $3,200 a day.

00;11;52;17 - 00;11;53;07
Paden Squires
Yeah.

00;11;53;09 - 00;11;57;12
Craig Andrews
I mean, I own I can still take just a fraction of that. And that adds up quickly.

00;11;57;14 - 00;12;00;21
Paden Squires
Well, yeah. Well, let's say even take, I don't know, just say you take,

00;12;00;21 - 00;12;01;05
Paden Squires
you know,

00;12;01;05 - 00;12;09;22
Paden Squires
half that call it $1,800 a day. And once again, you know, all this stuff comes down, your personal situation, you know, you know, caveat with all of that, but,

00;12;09;22 - 00;12;16;00
Paden Squires
you know, that's $21,000 in, in income, right? If you did or even heck, that's only 12 days.

00;12;16;00 - 00;12;40;17
Paden Squires
Let's do 1800 times 14 days is $25,000 worth of income. That theoretically is going to avoid income taxes. If it goes through the Guster rule that 25 K will avoid income taxes, you know, rough math. Just say you're at a 30% effective rate at $7,500. That you know what I mean? That that you just saved in income taxes by taking the time to properly implement a strategy and document it.

00;12;40;20 - 00;12;42;18
Craig Andrews
That's a really nice cruise.

00;12;42;20 - 00;12;47;26
Paden Squires
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I take my whole family five to Cancun for a week on that easily.

00;12;47;28 - 00;13;05;03
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah. So why is it I mean so there's some people are still scratching their heads saying, well, my CPA knows all the rules. They should be doing this for me. Why? Why does that not happen?

00;13;05;06 - 00;13;10;16
Paden Squires
A couple reasons. Once again, you know, I kind of go back to the overall industry. There's some pressures on the industry.

00;13;10;16 - 00;13;13;03
Paden Squires
Lots of different pressures on the industry. One,

00;13;13;03 - 00;13;23;04
Paden Squires
there was a survey in 2020. So five years ago, like pre-COVID, that said, 75% of CPAs are nearing retirement. That was five years ago.

00;13;23;04 - 00;13;27;10
Paden Squires
So total lack of like, just sheer amount of people,

00;13;27;10 - 00;13;28;04
Paden Squires
to,

00;13;28;04 - 00;13;31;09
Paden Squires
you know, regulations and compliance get more and more complicated every year.

00;13;31;10 - 00;13;42;15
Paden Squires
You know, every year more, you know, tax returns have more boxes to check, more things to report, all all those types of things. So the compliance gets more and more. And then three like CPAs aren't, you know,

00;13;42;15 - 00;13;44;23
Paden Squires
some are great, some aren't necessarily,

00;13;44;23 - 00;13;45;26
Paden Squires
running the, you know,

00;13;45;26 - 00;13;53;21
Paden Squires
aren't the best, like, managers of businesses and whatnot. So like, the vast majority of firms are just built the old way of their generalist.

00;13;53;25 - 00;14;10;02
Paden Squires
They do everything for everybody. They prep, you know, 10,000 tax returns all in like a ten week time. And so everything is so time crunch, so crazy. And all they're doing is pumping out returns and it's not there just really is no,

00;14;10;02 - 00;14;13;17
Paden Squires
motivation or process to do any of that.

00;14;13;17 - 00;14;15;20
Paden Squires
Nobody, nobody set up to do it.

00;14;15;22 - 00;14;28;00
Paden Squires
Now, now, most firms will do it for, you know, at least a few of their, you know, their best clients that they actually do a little bit of planning with. But 90% of those clients aren't really getting any kind of planning, you know.

00;14;28;03 - 00;14;43;27
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So what's the right structure to have how, you know, if somebody is listening and for whatever reason, they can't hire you? What what do they need to have in place to make sure that they're doing what they should be doing?

00;14;43;29 - 00;14;50;12
Paden Squires
Yeah, I mean, it's it's just trying to find a relationship, you know, whether it's, you know, with me and my firm or somebody else that's,

00;14;50;12 - 00;14;53;29
Paden Squires
it's more of like a proactive relationship, right?

00;14;53;29 - 00;14;57;23
Paden Squires
If you're really wanting to step your tax game up,

00;14;57;23 - 00;15;08;24
Paden Squires
you need to invest in that. And, you know, invest in a relationship with that, invest in a firm that, that, that can offer that because of its the firm's good and how we try to design or engagements.

00;15;08;24 - 00;15;25;11
Paden Squires
Is that like you're going to get a return on investment, right. We're going to help you implement different strategies. And yes, we may cost more in your your account now. But like net net, when we do all the work and everything we're doing for you're going to be further ahead even by paying us more money that that that kind of makes sense.

00;15;25;13 - 00;15;35;13
Paden Squires
So it's really just finding somebody that actually does, you know, strategy and planning with you. And, and it

00;15;35;13 - 00;15;49;15
Paden Squires
has, you know, significant life experience and significant experience with businesses your size and kind of know what's what's your struggling worth as an entrepreneur. So it's it's really just finding a relationship of of more of an advisory, you know,

00;15;49;15 - 00;15;53;04
Paden Squires
planning advisory, proactive type relationship,

00;15;53;04 - 00;15;59;20
Paden Squires
in the tax base because there is so much value to be found there and just so few people actually doing that work.

00;15;59;22 - 00;16;02;24
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, I wonder if it's something like,

00;16;02;24 - 00;16;12;17
Craig Andrews
you know, I, I'm not a baseball fan, but I love using baseball analogies, like, you know, there's not, like, a single coach on the baseball team.

00;16;12;20 - 00;16;13;27
Paden Squires
Yeah.

00;16;13;29 - 00;16;24;01
Craig Andrews
You know, you have like, a dedicated batting coach. It's not like he doesn't know how to play the other roles on the team, but that's his sole focus.

00;16;24;03 - 00;16;38;12
Paden Squires
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, you know, and depending on the size of your business, you know, you may even be looking at, you know, if you've grown a couple million other business or whatnot, you know, you may be looking at getting like an outsource CFO or something, you know, somebody that would,

00;16;38;12 - 00;16;41;13
Paden Squires
take over, like the finance type type functions of your business.

00;16;41;13 - 00;16;53;20
Paden Squires
Once you've grown to a big enough size that you need that. And it's the same thing with like, you know, that in that CFO role is where are you going to get some strategy and stuff about business growth and business finance and all those kinds of things?

00;16;53;20 - 00;16;56;14
Paden Squires
This is the same thing. Just just really for taxes, right?

00;16;56;22 - 00;17;03;21
Paden Squires
And specifically there and some CFOs do a little bit of tax work, but that's not there. You know, that's certainly not their focus either.

00;17;03;21 - 00;17;15;27
Paden Squires
So it's it's it's just really an intentional around where you need that help. And to be quite honest with you, if you're a business owner of any size, the taxes are going to be your biggest expense over your whole you know, life of your business.

00;17;15;29 - 00;17;22;12
Paden Squires
Somebody able to get control of that and strategize around that and how you time things and how you recognize income.

00;17;22;12 - 00;17;24;15
Paden Squires
There's a whole lot of value. Somebody,

00;17;24;15 - 00;17;26;23
Paden Squires
like my, my team can add there,

00;17;26;23 - 00;17;33;05
Paden Squires
that that allows you to be in a much better place than you would be without working with someone like us.

00;17;33;07 - 00;17;44;21
Craig Andrews
We know something. I, I was just thinking, you know, if we go to the world of investing, somebody would think that they're like an a investment genius if they could consistently get, like a 10 or 12% return.

00;17;44;23 - 00;17;49;23
Paden Squires
Year, do that every year without stop, you would be the greatest investor of all time. Yeah, right.

00;17;49;25 - 00;17;54;24
Craig Andrews
And what's what's like the typical, you know, you throw out a number, it was like a 33%,

00;17;54;24 - 00;17;56;04
Craig Andrews
return.

00;17;56;07 - 00;18;10;03
Paden Squires
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, you know, you can get when you talking about, you know, in the stock market or financial markets or whatever, right. Like, you know, over the long haul, 8 to 10% return is like that's historically kind of what it's performed.

00;18;10;03 - 00;18;17;13
Paden Squires
Yeah. The thing about business and running your own business is you can beat those returns all day long if you know how to invest and move money around and get return on investment.

00;18;17;13 - 00;18;33;14
Paden Squires
It's kind of like paying for advertising, right? Like advertising. Hopefully it's not an expense. It's it's something that you're doing to get more money back. Right? Like it's a it's like an investment. Right. Same kind of thing with, with with like or working with somebody me on like tax strategy.

00;18;33;14 - 00;18;40;21
Paden Squires
You know we're going to go into there and get you more money back and get you net net.

00;18;40;23 - 00;18;58;04
Paden Squires
In a much better place. And while we're very focused on tax and strategy and whatnot, we're also give a lot of business advice too, just knowing that, you know, I've worked with thousands, literally a thousand plus on entrepreneurs and, and businesses of all different sizes from anywhere from 1 to 25 million.

00;18;58;04 - 00;19;05;22
Paden Squires
So we see a lot of the same problems across the same size as a business, and it can often help spot bottlenecks, even in other parts of the business.

00;19;05;22 - 00;19;08;03
Paden Squires
And give a little advice around that, too.

00;19;08;06 - 00;19;35;28
Craig Andrews
Well, I also imagine that there's some thought, you know, when when you're stuck in your silo, it's easy, you know, let's say your industry silo. One of the statements I hear all the time is, well, that's not how it's done in our business. And people get stuck into this thought of, here's how it's done. One of the advantages you bring is you see how it's done across different businesses when you're like, you know, this worked over here, I bet it would work for you as well.

00;19;36;00 - 00;19;49;12
Paden Squires
Yeah, yeah, that's a huge advantage of the career. I am in. Is that for the last, you know, 11 years? I mean, I can't tell you how many businesses I've seen, how many businesses I've seen financials, right? I mean, thousands

00;19;49;12 - 00;19;52;12
Paden Squires
and communicated with thousands of entrepreneurs,

00;19;52;12 - 00;19;55;17
Paden Squires
you know, between podcast and clients and, and other business groups.

00;19;55;17 - 00;20;03;00
Paden Squires
And I mean, thousands upon thousands. And it allows you to start getting, you know, good at pattern recognition. I'm a I'm a constant learner.

00;20;03;00 - 00;20;16;06
Paden Squires
I love reading books, podcasts. You know, that's why I do my own podcast where I just interview entrepreneurs all the time and get their stories of success and what they've done and struggled with and all those things, and it just allows me to be a better advisor to my clients.

00;20;16;06 - 00;20;16;24
Paden Squires
Right.

00;20;16;24 - 00;20;23;24
Paden Squires
As I get all these stories and all these different things and learn more of how people are handling all the challenges and of the world,

00;20;23;24 - 00;20;37;23
Paden Squires
and allows me to like, once again, while I'm, I'm very money focused and helping people grow their net worth, you know, as efficient as possible. There's a lot of other advice, you know, around mindset and how you attack things and how you think through things,

00;20;37;23 - 00;20;40;05
Paden Squires
that, that we provide advice around to.

00;20;40;08 - 00;21;00;24
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and one of the things I appreciate was when you said that marketing is not an expense. Yeah. And that's something, you know, obviously I do marketing and that's something I've run into there. Like like no, no, no, this is a growth mechanism. But for some reason whenever the economy gets tough, they cut marketing.

00;21;00;27 - 00;21;05;25
Paden Squires
Yeah. Well and it's because they don't have a proven enough system. Right. Like you don't have a,

00;21;05;25 - 00;21;18;06
Paden Squires
if you have a proven if like marketing and sales system where, you know, like, okay, if you have a sales process to where, like, okay, a lead comes into the system and then you have it like, how does that lead funnel through your system?

00;21;18;06 - 00;21;31;10
Paden Squires
And ultimately end up as, like a customer? And if you do enough volume through there, you can get percentages of like, okay, you know, I basically need three leads to end up with one customer, you know, that actually closes.

00;21;31;10 - 00;21;39;02
Paden Squires
Well, you can back into all the math towards like, okay, the lifetime value of a client is worth $10,000 to me over the lifetime value of the client.

00;21;39;06 - 00;21;58;03
Paden Squires
What? I spend $3,000 over here on advertising to acquire a $10,000 client like, you know, and you can back into all those numbers and figure it out of like, hey, if my cost to acquire a customer is a couple thousand bucks and they end up spending 20 grand with me over the next two years, like what? I make that trade, make that trade all day long.

00;21;58;05 - 00;22;04;06
Paden Squires
Right? So it's it's it's getting those numbers so you can figure out can you scale this and all those different things. Right.

00;22;04;09 - 00;22;13;08
Craig Andrews
Well and that's you know, it's funny, I was we were talking about how I was writing LinkedIn newsletter early this morning. I was literally talking about lifetime value.

00;22;13;10 - 00;22;15;23
Paden Squires
Yeah. Lifetime value of customer. Huge.

00;22;15;26 - 00;22;17;09
Craig Andrews
And so I, I was using

00;22;17;09 - 00;22;41;11
Craig Andrews
we do something we call priming questions. And the job of priming questions is to prime the brain to think differently. So few people think about lifetime value. If I'm on sales call 1 in 21 in 30 or 40. If I ask them what their customer lifetime value, they have no idea. Yeah.

00;22;41;13 - 00;22;58;08
Craig Andrews
And the reason I ask is I want them to start thinking about the process that you just talked about. It's like, okay, you know, like I I'll give you an extreme example. I had some guy, I asked him what the lifetime value of a client was, and he said he kind of thought through. I was like,

00;22;58;08 - 00;23;06;05
Craig Andrews
between four and I'll coach him on coaching through because it's an important question and he'll say, you know, 4 to 5 million.

00;23;06;07 - 00;23;23;12
Craig Andrews
That was the number he came up with. I was like, okay, well, if a new client's worth 4 to 5 million to you, how much would you be willing to spend to acquire a new client? He's like probably a million. Like, well, crap, my job just got easy. I mean, I could drive a bus through that.

00;23;23;15 - 00;23;27;04
Paden Squires
Right? Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, I was literally,

00;23;27;04 - 00;23;43;13
Paden Squires
talking to my marketing guy yesterday that does ads and stuff for us. And like, we were talking about pack, which is cost to acquire a customer. CAC and we were talking about LTV lifetime value of a customer. Right. And and the cool thing about, like, my business and professional services is it's very sticky, right?

00;23;43;13 - 00;23;49;16
Paden Squires
Like, you know, people, you find a good relationship, you know, someone is with me 4 to 5 years or whatever, right?

00;23;49;16 - 00;23;51;10
Paden Squires
On average, but maybe even longer.

00;23;51;10 - 00;23;58;28
Paden Squires
But but so, so I can take, you know, when you're talking and thinking about lifetime value, I can take. Okay, what's the average annual contract that somebody pays me, right.

00;23;58;28 - 00;24;01;19
Paden Squires
That comes on playing, you know? Okay, that's my average number.

00;24;01;19 - 00;24;18;01
Paden Squires
I can multiply that by 4 to 5, something like that, and get a conservative lifetime value of, of a client. So it's, it's it's whatever my average annual client is times you know, call it for to be really conservative. Okay. That's that's the lifetime value of my client.

00;24;18;03 - 00;24;41;16
Paden Squires
What would I be willing to spend to acquire that client. Right. And keep in mind, you also got the cost of a service in them and whatnot. But like that's how you can get into the math and really realize that advertising and marketing can be just a return on investment, that you're okay, you're spending two grand to acquire a $40,000, you know, client you would buy that, you would spend two grand, buy a $40,000 asset all day long, right?

00;24;41;18 - 00;24;43;22
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, it's funny,

00;24;43;22 - 00;24;46;29
Craig Andrews
a number of years ago, I was talking to some guy who,

00;24;46;29 - 00;24;53;14
Craig Andrews
a CPA. Maybe you can help me answer this question, because I've run into this a lot with the with the,

00;24;53;14 - 00;24;56;26
Craig Andrews
financial types, but he was,

00;24;56;26 - 00;25;08;22
Craig Andrews
he was talking about how he was launching new service. He was going to charge something like 350 bucks a month, you know, to basically keep your books and that would include doing your taxes at the end of the year.

00;25;08;24 - 00;25;28;16
Craig Andrews
That's a bargain. I think he's since upped his prices. And we were having this conversation in January or early February. I forget which, you know, whatever year it was. And I asked him, I said, how much capacity do you have? I said, if you could take on five new clients right now, do you have the capacity to do it?

00;25;28;18 - 00;25;31;02
Craig Andrews
He's like, oh yeah, yeah, you. I

00;25;31;02 - 00;25;39;20
Craig Andrews
said, well, here's what you do. You reach out, reach out to your list and say, hey, we're launching this new service.

00;25;39;20 - 00;25;53;28
Craig Andrews
If you sign up for this new service, we'll do your tax filings this year for free. And he he was like, he he was appalled. He was absolutely appalled that I recommended that.

00;25;54;01 - 00;26;11;06
Craig Andrews
And I was like, he's like, well, it's worth a lot more. I'm like, dude, you can get five new clients right now for your new service that you're launching. They're worth a whole lot more money than what you're losing on this year's tax preparation.

00;26;11;09 - 00;26;12;09
Paden Squires
Yeah. And that's,

00;26;12;09 - 00;26;14;09
Paden Squires
that's what I would tell you is,

00;26;14;09 - 00;26;18;04
Paden Squires
accounts are notorious for that notorious,

00;26;18;04 - 00;26;18;21
Paden Squires
for,

00;26;18;21 - 00;26;39;07
Paden Squires
undervaluing their work and charging way less than they should. And that's why they get 10,000 tax returns, and they do everything for everybody and can't provide any strategy whatsoever. So, like what you just described, there is, I don't know, 80, 90% of CPA firms to where it's just like they they under charge.

00;26;39;07 - 00;26;40;02
Paden Squires
They,

00;26;40;02 - 00;26;44;15
Paden Squires
discount their value. So then they're just they're just box checkers and

00;26;44;15 - 00;26;48;03
Paden Squires
not realizing that, you know, if they actually, you know,

00;26;48;03 - 00;26;51;00
Paden Squires
niche down a little bit kind of stood for something,

00;26;51;00 - 00;26;59;12
Paden Squires
and charged their prices. They could I mean, they would still they would still have plenty of, of, of work to do. And they would make way more money.

00;26;59;15 - 00;27;20;02
Craig Andrews
Well, the thing that got me was he rejected my strategy. And of course, March 15th came and went so that that that offer with no longer work. But it was like several months later, I think it was like four, 5 or 6 months later, he was celebrating landing his first client. And I was like, dude, you could have had five clients.

00;27;20;02 - 00;27;25;26
Craig Andrews
Whatever money you thought you were losing, you would have just had all of that in the pipeline.

00;27;25;28 - 00;27;31;03
Paden Squires
Yeah. And it's it's like, you know, it's like investing. Everything's on timelines, right? Like,

00;27;31;03 - 00;27;45;10
Paden Squires
he couldn't see that far down, you know what I mean? He wasn't playing that game. He was playing a much shorter game, right, of getting through taxes. I mean, that's where, you know, you get so much stuff going on your, your timeline gets shorter and shorter, and you make decisions shorter and shorter timelines.

00;27;45;10 - 00;27;46;19
Paden Squires
And that's usually not,

00;27;46;19 - 00;27;49;24
Paden Squires
good. Generally if you're making decisions on longer timelines, that's,

00;27;49;24 - 00;27;51;13
Paden Squires
better. Better for you.

00;27;51;16 - 00;28;00;25
Craig Andrews
Yeah. All right. Well, I have one last question. That is, what is the most salacious deduction you've ever seen?

00;28;00;27 - 00;28;06;04
Paden Squires
Salacious, salacious deduction.

00;28;06;04 - 00;28;11;10
Paden Squires
I mean, I've certainly seen airplanes that are stretch.

00;28;11;10 - 00;28;14;18
Paden Squires
Salacious.

00;28;14;18 - 00;28;20;12
Paden Squires
I don't know if I have a lot of salacious because I'll just straight up ask my client. What? What the heck is this?

00;28;20;15 - 00;28;25;16
Craig Andrews
Nothing with a PG 13 rating.

00;28;25;18 - 00;28;35;10
Paden Squires
I'm trying to think I just salacious in tax preparation for me. Usually don't go hand in hand. So I'm.

00;28;35;12 - 00;28;37;13
Paden Squires
I was not prepared for that question.

00;28;37;15 - 00;28;41;14
Craig Andrews
Okay. Well, think about will I email me later because I was like.

00;28;41;14 - 00;28;49;11
Paden Squires
Okay, something will come to mind. I'll be laying in bed tonight and be like, oh, I should have said and, forgot about this guy.

00;28;49;13 - 00;28;51;06
Craig Andrews
Yeah. I mean, so one of the,

00;28;51;08 - 00;28;53;07
Paden Squires
I mean, I'll put it this way. I've had,

00;28;53;07 - 00;28;53;29
Paden Squires
I've had,

00;28;53;29 - 00;29;01;27
Paden Squires
people that were models come in, you know, come in to ask me about tax preparation and particularly internet models,

00;29;01;27 - 00;29;10;11
Paden Squires
where I'm kind of like, hey, what? It's kind of like we both in the room kind of know what we're talking about here, but not all of us are really saying that.

00;29;10;13 - 00;29;14;02
Paden Squires
So that that was I don't know, you say PG 13, that was,

00;29;14;02 - 00;29;14;16
Paden Squires
one of,

00;29;14;16 - 00;29;16;01
Paden Squires
one of the more interesting ones.

00;29;16;01 - 00;29;16;15
Paden Squires
We didn't,

00;29;16;15 - 00;29;18;13
Paden Squires
did not end up working together.

00;29;18;13 - 00;29;21;19
Paden Squires
They were trying to write off braces,

00;29;21;19 - 00;29;26;07
Paden Squires
because that obviously affects their modeling career.

00;29;26;10 - 00;29;30;11
Craig Andrews
But there's got to be a fetish out there for braces. You just have to work that fetish.

00;29;30;14 - 00;29;32;29
Paden Squires
Yeah, you just got to own it, I guess. Yeah.

00;29;33;01 - 00;29;34;01
Craig Andrews
Yeah, the,

00;29;34;01 - 00;29;40;12
Craig Andrews
back in the 90s, there was a story going around that the Clintons had deducted their their underwear. They had,

00;29;40;12 - 00;29;48;26
Craig Andrews
donated their underwear, and they had taken a deduction like, well, at least with Bill, I wouldn't touch their underwear with ten foot pole. No.

00;29;48;26 - 00;29;54;27
Paden Squires
Well, it you know, it might have some kind of collectible, you know, just so.

00;29;55;00 - 00;29;56;08
Craig Andrews
Wow. Well, hey,

00;29;56;08 - 00;29;59;15
Craig Andrews
Peyton, this has been really good. How can people reach you?

00;29;59;18 - 00;30;09;24
Paden Squires
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, if you'd like to get to know more about me and my firm and kind of the work we do there on the on the tax planning side, you can check us out at Squires tax planning.com.

00;30;09;24 - 00;30;13;12
Paden Squires
There there's, you know, some quizzes. There's lots of different resources there. And

00;30;13;12 - 00;30;15;00
Paden Squires
you know, ultimately you can book a call with us.

00;30;15;00 - 00;30;17;01
Paden Squires
Love to talk to you about your situation, see if,

00;30;17;01 - 00;30;18;20
Paden Squires
how we may be able to help you.

00;30;18;20 - 00;30;22;16
Paden Squires
On, on the personal side, really the business entrepreneur side, like, I had my podcast,

00;30;22;16 - 00;30;24;12
Paden Squires
behind their success, that's at,

00;30;24;12 - 00;30;34;23
Paden Squires
Paden squires.com. Or you can just search my name. PadenSquires, you know, all the different social media stuff we're putting out content, you know, business content and tax content and all that kind of stuff.

00;30;34;26 - 00;30;36;23
Paden Squires
On a regular basis.

00;30;36;25 - 00;30;39;13
Craig Andrews
All right. Well, thanks for coming on. Layers and Legacies.

00;30;39;15 - 00;30;43;10
Paden Squires
Yeah, absolutely. Craig, appreciate you having me on.

00;30;43;10 - 00;31;10;06
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;31;10;06 - 00;31;12;01
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00;31;12;03 - 00;31;35;13
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest. Tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.

00;31;35;15 - 00;31;43;20
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up. Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.

00;31;43;20 - 00;33;45;25
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.