Alex Langan blends law and finance to protect employees from the hidden traps inside their company retirement plans. As founder of Langan Financial Group and a practicing attorney, Alex has seen the worst—plans charging over 4% in fees with little to no service. In this episode, he explains how poor plan design and ignorance—not malice—often sabotage employee retirements. True leadership, he argues, means protecting your team from this kind of financial abuse.

Drawing from his upcoming book 401(k) Exposed, Alex reveals the legal shifts making it easier than ever to sue employers who fail their fiduciary duty. He outlines how proactive leadership can head off lawsuits and improve employee outcomes. His “fee forensics” process shows leaders how to detect hidden charges, ask the right questions, and demand transparency.

Alex isn’t just warning employers—he’s giving them a blueprint for doing better. Because leaders don’t just offer benefits. They protect them.

Want to learn more about Alex Langan's work? Check out his website at https://langanfinancialgroup.com.

Connect with Alex Langan on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-langan-26017b40.

Key Points with Timestamps

• Intro to Alex Langan and his dual expertise in law and finance – 00:00:51
  
  

• Why leadership means fiduciary responsibility—regardless of company size – 00:03:39

• The “fiduciary formula” and how most plans hide fees – 00:04:05

• A real-world example: $50K skimmed from a $1.2M plan – 00:05:00

• How bad actors exploit legal gray areas in retirement plans – 00:06:57

• The danger of relying on AI for legal advice – 00:07:04

• Recent legal changes making it easier for employees to sue – 00:09:00

• Why Alex shifted from defense attorney to proactive advisor – 00:09:50

• The plaintiff strategy: targeting terminated employees – 00:10:34

• The blurred definition of “fiduciary” and how it fails employees – 00:15:14

• What leaders need in writing: 3(21) vs 3(38) fiduciary contracts – 00:16:05

• Why employers must lead with education and documentation – 00:17:32

• How hidden fees sabotage retirement—without employers knowing – 00:18:39

• “Fee forensics”: How leaders can spot and stop hidden charges – 00:19:33

• Three documents every employer should review – 00:20:05

• Free audits and benchmarking services offered by Alex’s firm – 00:21:41

• How leaders can prove due diligence to prevent lawsuits – 00:22:12

• How to contact Alex and get his upcoming book – 00:22:49

Transcript

00;00;05;20 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;13
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.

00;00;51;15 - 00;00;57;27
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Alex Langan. He is the founder of the Langan Financial Group.

00;00;58;00 - 00;01;17;00
Craig Andrews
He's also the upcoming author of For One K exposed the fiduciary formula How Elite Employers Protect Their People and Outperform the market. Alex is recognized as an authority in group retirement plan design and RSA compliance.

00;01;17;03 - 00;01;19;13
Craig Andrews
We'll explain that a rest here in a bit.

00;01;19;15 - 00;01;37;18
Craig Andrews
But he has over 20 years of experience at the intersection of law and financial planning. He is the chief investment officer of Langan Financial Group, a multigenerational advisory firm serving Pennsylvania and beyond. Alex, welcome.

00;01;37;20 - 00;01;40;02
Alex Langan
Thanks for having me, Craig. I appreciate being here.

00;01;40;05 - 00;01;54;25
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, you know, we chat and we we should probably hit record like, 40 minutes ago because we've been having the most amazing conversation with Ben. Different podcast but with it was still an interesting conversation. And,

00;01;54;27 - 00;01;59;08
Craig Andrews
and so one of the questions I have,

00;01;59;11 - 00;02;06;25
Craig Andrews
and I don't know if I've figured this out because we haven't talked about it, but are you an attorney or are you a financial advisor?

00;02;06;28 - 00;02;12;04
Alex Langan
Depends on the day. The fence on the day. I am a practicing attorney.

00;02;12;09 - 00;02;15;13
Alex Langan
I clerked for the Pennsylvania Supreme Court for a while, then went to the,

00;02;15;18 - 00;02;16;21
Alex Langan
governor's office for the budget.

00;02;16;28 - 00;02;18;15
Alex Langan
From there, I went to,

00;02;18;19 - 00;02;24;16
Alex Langan
joining a family business as a financial advisor. So currently, both.

00;02;24;18 - 00;02;32;02
Craig Andrews
Well, I've. I mean, I've seen that before where attorneys go into that, but usually, usually they're like tax attorneys.

00;02;32;05 - 00;02;47;22
Alex Langan
Yes. Which I'd love to get my masters in, in law, in taxation. But, we have three small kids. My wife told me. Absolutely not. So maybe one day it'll be one day I'll be an expert in tax as well. But. But the rest is what I focused on.

00;02;47;24 - 00;02;49;27
Craig Andrews
All right. And what is RSA.

00;02;50;00 - 00;02;54;08
Alex Langan
Employee Retirement Income Security Act. I, I just say it's for one k law.

00;02;54;11 - 00;02;55;14
Alex Langan
To make it simple.

00;02;55;16 - 00;02;56;25
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;02;56;28 - 00;03;01;13
Craig Andrews
But but also I mean, you know, we talked about this have a lot of,

00;03;01;13 - 00;03;06;05
Craig Andrews
people putting together health plans, and they're subject to arrest as well.

00;03;06;07 - 00;03;09;06
Alex Langan
They are? Yeah. So, thankfully,

00;03;09;09 - 00;03;15;07
Alex Langan
the health care industry is changing and they're starting to apply the fiduciary model to health care providers,

00;03;15;10 - 00;03;17;20
Alex Langan
which they have applied to,

00;03;17;20 - 00;03;24;16
Alex Langan
to businesses that are sponsoring, foreign K plans for decades. So it's nice to see it's coming over and getting,

00;03;24;16 - 00;03;27;06
Alex Langan
they're getting serious about applying it to health care.

00;03;27;09 - 00;03;39;03
Craig Andrews
Well, I think one of the things that surprised me, I mean, I have a small business, below 50 employees. And so there's a whole bunch of laws I don't have to worry about. Yes. And one of the things that surprised me was,

00;03;39;06 - 00;03;45;15
Craig Andrews
there's no number where you don't have fiduciary responsibility for both the health plan and the for one K.

00;03;45;17 - 00;03;47;15
Alex Langan
Absolutely true. Yep.

00;03;47;17 - 00;03;56;28
Craig Andrews
And that's that's scary because, I mean, once you start getting in compliance area, that's I know that just scares me because it's so easy to get it wrong.

00;03;57;00 - 00;04;05;06
Alex Langan
It is. And that's why I wrote the book and I developed and trademarked the fiduciary formula to try to help people learn.

00;04;05;09 - 00;04;13;24
Alex Langan
It's just like the health care. You're getting ripped off. You talk to three different people, they're charging at three different things, and they all have different code. So you don't know exactly what they're doing.

00;04;13;26 - 00;04;15;22
Alex Langan
It's very similar from that to,

00;04;15;22 - 00;04;32;25
Alex Langan
your 41K plan. They it's called revenue sharing where they don't disclose what they're actually charging you and your investments continue to grow hopefully. So they just they take a percent of it so that the dollar amount keeps growing over time. And nobody has any idea.

00;04;32;27 - 00;04;40;13
Craig Andrews
Well and that would seem I mean if I were, if I were a marginally unethical,

00;04;40;16 - 00;04;49;19
Craig Andrews
advisor, I mean that would seem everybody has these 41K plans. It's a big chunk of money. I can just chip off a little chunk of that big chunk.

00;04;49;21 - 00;04;50;21
Alex Langan
Yeah. I've seen people,

00;04;50;21 - 00;05;00;18
Alex Langan
take large chunks off of that. I saw one plan that they were charging 4.5% in fees. Yeah, it was the most egregious,

00;05;00;21 - 00;05;06;28
Alex Langan
up oversize fee because they should have been, you know, 1% maybe, but they were charging 4.5%

00;05;06;28 - 00;05;11;23
Alex Langan
and there's a $1.2 million plan. So they're making 50 some thousand a year off of this.

00;05;11;23 - 00;05;13;09
Alex Langan
It was it's egregious.

00;05;13;11 - 00;05;20;06
Craig Andrews
So 51, 50 some thousand 50,000 off how much work per year?

00;05;20;08 - 00;05;24;07
Alex Langan
They had one meeting a year for less than an hour.

00;05;24;10 - 00;05;29;19
Craig Andrews
And that's a that's a pretty nice hourly rate. It's kind of like the attorneys general. Jealous? They they should.

00;05;29;22 - 00;05;32;13
Alex Langan
Yeah. Now you see why I got in the business now, just just kidding.

00;05;32;20 - 00;05;38;02
Alex Langan
Yeah. It's it. Yeah, it's egregious and it's not uncommon. Here's the problem with this.

00;05;38;09 - 00;05;48;20
Alex Langan
I mean, you're an expert in the health care industry. It's very similar. I always compare financial advisors to realtors. There's a lot of them. A couple of them are really, really good and do what's right.

00;05;48;23 - 00;05;50;26
Alex Langan
The rest are just out to make a quick buck.

00;05;50;28 - 00;05;51;29
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah.

00;05;51;29 - 00;05;54;07
Craig Andrews
Well, I just sold a house, and I just bought a house.

00;05;54;09 - 00;05;57;10
Alex Langan
So I was a commission.

00;05;57;12 - 00;06;03;23
Craig Andrews
You know, it's a different subject, but I ended up having to do the marketing for the house and selling.

00;06;03;26 - 00;06;06;03
Alex Langan
Oh, interesting.

00;06;06;06 - 00;06;10;28
Craig Andrews
You know, I, I ended up we went from 100% negative,

00;06;11;01 - 00;06;36;15
Craig Andrews
feedback on showings to 100% positive feedback on showings just by changing the listing description. I rewrote I rewrote the listing description. I'm a marketer, and so I rewrote the. I rewrote the listing description. And that's how powerful marketing is, is you just change words. Well, my realtor was having ChatGPT write the listing descriptions.

00;06;36;17 - 00;06;46;23
Craig Andrews
I'm like, really? You're getting you're getting that that big? Yeah. And once you pass, you're getting that big commission. Have ChatGPT write the listing description.

00;06;46;26 - 00;06;57;16
Alex Langan
Yeah, like that's easy to do yourself. Yeah. Yeah. ChatGPT should be the expert. You should be the expert. Yeah. While they're getting paid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00;06;57;16 - 00;07;04;03
Alex Langan
ChatGPT has not gotten into for monkey business yet, but maybe they will. I would just be careful because they,

00;07;04;06 - 00;07;09;11
Alex Langan
They can create case laws and precedents that just doesn't exist. So just be careful, because.

00;07;09;12 - 00;07;10;00
Alex Langan
Yeah.

00;07;10;02 - 00;07;13;11
Craig Andrews
Well, so explain what that means. I mean, I know what you're talking about, but.

00;07;13;13 - 00;07;13;21
Alex Langan
Not to.

00;07;13;23 - 00;07;15;00
Craig Andrews
The.

00;07;15;02 - 00;07;16;08
Alex Langan
Yeah. Well,

00;07;16;11 - 00;07;18;15
Alex Langan
so RSA is,

00;07;18;15 - 00;07;21;04
Alex Langan
code base law. So by regulation,

00;07;21;06 - 00;07;26;13
Alex Langan
you have to follow it. It's really complicated. The Dol and IRS are involved in that Department of Labor.

00;07;26;20 - 00;07;35;14
Alex Langan
But what has happened over the years since its creation in the mid 70s is that people have been sued. And so it's it's created case law or precedents,

00;07;35;16 - 00;07;36;21
Alex Langan
establishing,

00;07;36;24 - 00;07;37;16
Alex Langan
clarifying a law.

00;07;37;17 - 00;07;40;16
Alex Langan
So what makes sense? What doesn't make sense in it?

00;07;40;19 - 00;07;42;05
Alex Langan
So over time,

00;07;42;12 - 00;07;58;14
Alex Langan
you get a better you get better clarity about what you should be doing as a plan sponsor, as a plan for the future. So what ChatGPT has hallucinated and graded random cases that literally don't exist. It just, you know, it fills in gaps, it makes stuff up that,

00;07;58;17 - 00;08;02;10
Alex Langan
and when it's legal, you really should be accurate.

00;08;02;12 - 00;08;07;17
Alex Langan
There's been a couple attorneys that that's been disbarred by having ChatGPT write stuff and hallucinate,

00;08;07;22 - 00;08;09;25
Alex Langan
case law. So you just want to be careful.

00;08;09;27 - 00;08;25;20
Craig Andrews
And if I understand case law. So if I'm going before a judge, I can say, hey, this was resolved this way by this judge. Here's how it applies in my case. Then the judge doesn't even use his own. Now he leans on the case law.

00;08;25;23 - 00;08;26;09
Alex Langan
Yeah.

00;08;26;09 - 00;08;27;06
Alex Langan
Yeah. Based office.

00;08;27;06 - 00;08;28;15
Alex Langan
Based off of legal facts.

00;08;28;15 - 00;08;33;10
Alex Langan
Assuming usually that there's a couple of different fact differences and there's gray area that needs clarified.

00;08;33;14 - 00;08;34;25
Alex Langan
And that's where the judge would come in.

00;08;34;28 - 00;08;38;17
Alex Langan
But yes, if it's a clear cut case, it's super easy.

00;08;38;20 - 00;08;41;12
Alex Langan
Being at Supreme Court, it was never that way. We always.

00;08;41;12 - 00;08;43;19
Alex Langan
That's why it made it to that level. Where the third level,

00;08;43;19 - 00;08;45;25
Alex Langan
you know, starting out trial will go from there. So,

00;08;45;28 - 00;08;51;19
Alex Langan
Yeah, you're right that that is where they it makes it easy for, like, hey, this exactly happened. I'm right there. Wrong.

00;08;51;19 - 00;08;52;27
Alex Langan
Unfortunately,

00;08;53;00 - 00;08;54;05
Alex Langan
the US Supreme Court,

00;08;54;13 - 00;08;59;19
Alex Langan
just came out with new precedents back in April 2025.

00;08;59;22 - 00;09;00;18
Alex Langan
Was this year.

00;09;00;21 - 00;09;07;09
Alex Langan
Connecticut was Connecticut. Connecticut based case that makes it exceptionally easy,

00;09;07;12 - 00;09;14;11
Alex Langan
for a plaintiff to bring a case and past shift the burden on to the defense or the sponsor.

00;09;14;14 - 00;09;18;14
Alex Langan
And then they have to justify that they did everything right.

00;09;18;16 - 00;09;21;17
Alex Langan
It's so it's making it a lot easier to be sued.

00;09;21;19 - 00;09;22;29
Alex Langan
For a court case plans.

00;09;23;02 - 00;09;23;29
Alex Langan
So.

00;09;24;01 - 00;09;32;16
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So, That's interesting. The,

00;09;32;19 - 00;09;33;27
Craig Andrews
So is that,

00;09;34;00 - 00;09;42;17
Craig Andrews
so creating some opportunity. I mean, it would seem anytime you have churn, it seems like it creates opportunities.

00;09;42;19 - 00;09;44;11
Alex Langan
Yes.

00;09;44;13 - 00;09;50;19
Alex Langan
It does, but the problem is, is I've. I've switched from being an attorney.

00;09;50;22 - 00;09;59;09
Alex Langan
Because they're reactive. I I'm I have to help protect my client in court. This way, I get to be proactive, and I can fix their plan.

00;09;59;12 - 00;10;04;22
Alex Langan
Document everything. So that way, if a lawsuit came, it is unlikely a lawsuit comes.

00;10;04;24 - 00;10;07;24
Alex Langan
Although they're increasing, I think, by 25%,

00;10;07;24 - 00;10;08;22
Alex Langan
over the past year.

00;10;08;25 - 00;10;10;22
Alex Langan
But if a lawsuit comes,

00;10;10;25 - 00;10;13;01
Alex Langan
I can be proactive enough in stopping it.

00;10;13;09 - 00;10;20;20
Alex Langan
You don't want to be in court being like, well, we haven't looked at this, but, you know, we were assured that decision reasonable.

00;10;20;20 - 00;10;25;27
Alex Langan
Investments are good. So, I'd much rather be proactive.

00;10;26;00 - 00;10;27;10
Craig Andrews
Is,

00;10;27;13 - 00;10;31;26
Craig Andrews
is it causing a surge in, like, class action lawsuits? Contingency?

00;10;31;29 - 00;10;34;24
Alex Langan
Yeah. It has. Yeah. That's where it's, these are all,

00;10;34;24 - 00;10;40;10
Alex Langan
class action lawsuits. So once you get your class action certified, usually it's. Oh, crap. We got to settle.

00;10;40;13 - 00;10;43;29
Alex Langan
So what good plaintiffs attorneys are doing?

00;10;43;29 - 00;10;51;23
Alex Langan
And please don't take this as advice. Plaintiffs attorneys don't do this. But what really good ones are doing, they are actively finding,

00;10;51;26 - 00;10;59;15
Alex Langan
terminated employees that, you know, are are unhappy with their previous employer players.

00;10;59;15 - 00;11;00;09
Alex Langan
And,

00;11;00;12 - 00;11;05;15
Alex Langan
they're getting their documents and doing the due diligence to see whether there is a legit case or not.

00;11;05;18 - 00;11;14;25
Alex Langan
So they're they're being proactive now because it is so easy to shift the burden of proof onto the employer. And the vast majority employers do not look at this.

00;11;14;27 - 00;11;19;00
Alex Langan
It's just it's that they forgot about it, and it is what it is.

00;11;19;02 - 00;11;23;26
Craig Andrews
You know, a funny story. I'm not going to mention the name the law firm, but they they were like the,

00;11;23;26 - 00;11;27;25
Craig Andrews
one of the original ambulance chasers in the DC Baltimore area.

00;11;27;26 - 00;11;28;26
Alex Langan
Okay. Yeah.

00;11;28;26 - 00;11;32;06
Craig Andrews
And they were, like, early and running the ads.

00;11;32;09 - 00;11;33;03
Craig Andrews
TV ads.

00;11;33;09 - 00;11;34;16
Craig Andrews
My sister in law was a,

00;11;34;16 - 00;11;36;19
Craig Andrews
was a claims adjuster with,

00;11;36;19 - 00;11;37;17
Craig Andrews
Allstate.

00;11;37;20 - 00;11;50;25
Craig Andrews
And she was dealing with the attorneys and one, you know, we're sitting around one day and she's talking about one of these guys. I'm like. Like Gene, you're talking about. I'm like, you like them?

00;11;50;27 - 00;12;01;13
Craig Andrews
And she's like, oh, no, he's a scumbag. I just he's really good at what he does. And he makes my job easy because it's. Yeah, you know, he

00;12;01;15 - 00;12;08;21
Craig Andrews
he knew exactly what he could ask for. He knew exactly what they could get. Yeah. And he made it easy for it. Is settle.

00;12;08;23 - 00;12;14;01
Alex Langan
Yeah. Because they know they have to go through them because that's so true. They have to go through the motions.

00;12;14;04 - 00;12;20;04
Alex Langan
You know, the limits of your policy in that case. They do have insurance for this stuff, but,

00;12;20;06 - 00;12;25;02
Alex Langan
usually it's okay. What's limits a policy? Let's see how egregious. Let's see how I can twist this and make it work.

00;12;25;05 - 00;12;35;27
Alex Langan
And then you're like, okay, we not both know where this is going. Let's just hurry up and settle it. So that's that's funny, but that is so true. Yeah. Yeah. They're good ones out there that know how to do it.

00;12;35;29 - 00;12;44;22
Craig Andrews
Well, and for her, I mean, she was being measured on how many cases she settled. Gotcha. And so this guy would come in and he he'd help her meet her numbers.

00;12;44;25 - 00;12;48;05
Alex Langan
Gotcha. Yeah. The last thing I want to do is spend a lot of money,

00;12;48;08 - 00;12;49;27
Alex Langan
in the courtroom. Unless,

00;12;49;27 - 00;12;52;00
Alex Langan
you're trying to set your own precedents.

00;12;52;07 - 00;13;03;06
Alex Langan
But usually what happens in that if if you're afraid you're going to lose, you might go to one level. Maybe you appeal to the next level and you don't keep going because you really don't want it to be set in that state.

00;13;03;08 - 00;13;08;01
Alex Langan
So it depends on how far you want to push it. But yeah, it's very strategic.

00;13;08;04 - 00;13;25;14
Craig Andrews
So, so making the link from injury law to 401 K fiduciary, you know, I mean, so there are guys out there that that know the law so well. Yeah, they're going to be able to come in. They're going to. And so you can start going after companies.

00;13;25;16 - 00;13;26;19
Alex Langan
Yeah. Well they are

00;13;26;22 - 00;13;32;09
Alex Langan
they are I know some firms out that I've done it. I've actually been asked to be an expert witness. I haven't yet.

00;13;32;12 - 00;13;34;14
Alex Langan
I don't want to make that shift.

00;13;34;16 - 00;13;35;28
Alex Langan
I would never do it for a plaintiff.

00;13;35;28 - 00;13;42;21
Alex Langan
Unless there are some pretty bad advisors out there that I don't think should be in the business.

00;13;42;23 - 00;13;47;17
Alex Langan
So they just haven't, they're not a fiduciary.

00;13;47;19 - 00;14;00;20
Alex Langan
They know that they pretend to be. Actually just had a conversation with somebody yesterday. I was like, oh, I have a fiduciary. I looked at their stuff. They they legally cannot be a fiduciary with what they're they're selling. And it is they're selling these products.

00;14;00;20 - 00;14;01;26
Alex Langan
It's frustrating.

00;14;01;29 - 00;14;06;06
Alex Langan
But it's rampant in the industry, just like health care. Just like health care.

00;14;06;08 - 00;14;28;01
Craig Andrews
Well, kind of a funny story from my past. So I, you know, I do marketing and I had a client that was wealth management firm, and they had an in-house compliance officer. Okay. Yep. And we were trying to describe they were really wanting the focus of marketing mastery on being a fiduciary. And so we we were working on the mastering and the compliance officer saying kept saying, you can't say that.

00;14;28;06 - 00;14;29;07
Craig Andrews
You can't say that.

00;14;29;09 - 00;14;30;07
Alex Langan
Yep.

00;14;30;09 - 00;14;54;02
Craig Andrews
And she smugly threw an 80 page document at me saying, you need to read this. What she didn't expect is I read it. You read it. Nice. Yeah, nice. Next meeting I go back and I say, hey, if I quote the SEC chairman, is that compliant? She's like, well, yeah, well, the SEC chairman, that document basically said the definition of,

00;14;54;02 - 00;14;57;15
Craig Andrews
judiciary was so loose it lost its meaning.

00;14;57;17 - 00;15;14;23
Craig Andrews
That was very much the Wild West. Oh, well, I was like, this is every time, by the way, every time I've come up against a compliance officer, the quality of my marketing improve because I have the supervisory authority. Yeah. That saying fiduciary is a meaningless term. Here's how we do things.

00;15;14;25 - 00;15;16;13
Alex Langan
That's great. Yeah.

00;15;16;16 - 00;15;25;14
Craig Andrews
That's what that's that's part of the problem is you can meet the legal definition for a fiduciary. But according to the SEC chairman, it's defined so broadly. You can drive bus through it.

00;15;25;16 - 00;15;36;04
Alex Langan
It does. But then it even gets murkier because you can actually wear dull hats where you are fiduciary in certain situations. So maybe it's covered. Probably covered, but then in other situations you can do,

00;15;36;04 - 00;15;42;08
Alex Langan
transaction based where it's just purely based off of suitability at the time of sale, which is like I don't know what that means.

00;15;42;09 - 00;15;45;20
Alex Langan
So people go back and forth constantly.

00;15;45;23 - 00;15;49;29
Alex Langan
That's why I always like to see say it has to be in the contract.

00;15;50;06 - 00;16;05;23
Alex Langan
It's known as a 321 or 338 as an advisor. 321 Co fiduciary that they share in a liability. 338 their discretionary investment manager, so they take on the liability. And then you just have to check in periodically to make sure they're doing what's right.

00;16;05;25 - 00;16;09;12
Alex Langan
You I always look to make sure that's in the document,

00;16;09;15 - 00;16;10;16
Alex Langan
for people because

00;16;10;16 - 00;16;16;15
Alex Langan
otherwise they say they're fiduciary, but they're not. So they have to write it. They have to put it in writing.

00;16;16;17 - 00;16;16;29
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;16;17;01 - 00;16;19;03
Alex Langan
Yeah. It's it's unfortunate.

00;16;19;05 - 00;16;29;04
Craig Andrews
Well, it's I mean, my big takeaway from that was even if you meet the legal definition for, for fiduciary, there's a lot of wiggle room to do squirrely things.

00;16;29;05 - 00;16;36;24
Alex Langan
There is. Yeah. And you can also a lot of people can be fiduciary is they can still do some revenue sharing. And that's where it gets tricky.

00;16;36;28 - 00;16;39;27
Alex Langan
1201 fees subterfuge. What they're called,

00;16;40;00 - 00;16;53;27
Alex Langan
but there's also multiple parties. So 1st May be a fiduciary while another is not. And then what is the frame of that fiduciary. Are they taking on the full responsibilities to your point or are they just I'm a fiduciary in this little regard and I don't do anything else.

00;16;53;29 - 00;16;58;06
Alex Langan
So and that's also what we see. It's unfortunate.

00;16;58;08 - 00;17;02;17
Craig Andrews
Well so let's let's let's kind of tie that back to

00;17;02;20 - 00;17;07;08
Craig Andrews
so employers you know they're trying to put together these plans.

00;17;07;11 - 00;17;09;00
Craig Andrews
One, you know,

00;17;09;03 - 00;17;16;24
Craig Andrews
obviously they don't want to get sued, but I think I think most employers really want to take care of their employees that want to be a benefit.

00;17;16;26 - 00;17;17;21
Alex Langan
You know.

00;17;17;24 - 00;17;21;13
Craig Andrews
This plan because yes, they want benefit.

00;17;21;15 - 00;17;32;21
Alex Langan
Yeah. That's what a true leader is. They care about their team. They care about their employees. They this is their for their benefit. And that's that's the big difference between health care providers.

00;17;32;24 - 00;17;44;08
Alex Langan
And having sponsoring A41K plan, health care providers are there to rip you off. You know that. You know, it's a game. The employer sets up this plan just like they set up a health care plan.

00;17;44;08 - 00;17;49;09
Alex Langan
They set this plan up to take care of their employees. But then you got all these different people coming in,

00;17;49;12 - 00;17;54;00
Alex Langan
and trying to rip you off, and they do it so tactfully that,

00;17;54;06 - 00;18;03;10
Alex Langan
you don't even realize what's going on, but. And I that's what I constantly mention in my book. Like, these employers care about their people if they set this up wrong.

00;18;03;10 - 00;18;05;18
Alex Langan
Not knowing just based off of ignorance.

00;18;05;21 - 00;18;11;24
Alex Langan
They they're ripping them off. They will not be able to retire. And I have seen people not be able to retire.

00;18;11;26 - 00;18;15;05
Alex Langan
It's heartbreaking. I just had somebody reach out to us,

00;18;15;07 - 00;18;22;03
Alex Langan
at $13,000 this fall on K plan, and he's 63 years old. He wants to retire. It's like, well, can you live off of Social Security?

00;18;22;07 - 00;18;24;26
Alex Langan
Like, no, he's working two jobs.

00;18;24;29 - 00;18;30;06
Alex Langan
He had some issues. He he did have to empty out a bunch of it. His form k previously because he had,

00;18;30;06 - 00;18;31;24
Alex Langan
he had to send his daughter rehab, but,

00;18;32;00 - 00;18;32;26
Alex Langan
which is sad, but,

00;18;33;02 - 00;18;39;08
Alex Langan
now he's trying to make it up and and a full one K plan in and of itself did not help him compound like you should.

00;18;39;11 - 00;18;54;11
Craig Andrews
You know. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing those those fees those fees just I mean you said these four, 4% fee I mean that's a half. Four and a half. Yeah.

00;18;54;14 - 00;19;08;03
Alex Langan
Yeah. The director said to me, I don't understand it. I see the reports, I see the returns look really well. But every year our accounts don't increase. I don't understand why. And so then I gathered all the documents,

00;19;08;06 - 00;19;13;14
Alex Langan
and I looked through it and there was a hidden wrap fee that they were pulling the money out. That much money out of it.

00;19;13;16 - 00;19;16;07
Alex Langan
And she had no idea.

00;19;16;09 - 00;19;22;18
Craig Andrews
So let's say somebody was listening this and they wanted to.

00;19;22;21 - 00;19;33;01
Craig Andrews
Just kind of do a first level check, you know, kind of like checking the oil in the car, checking on the tires. Where should they check what what are the things they should look for?

00;19;33;01 - 00;19;37;03
Alex Langan
I, I spelled out in the book it's called I call it fee forensics.

00;19;37;06 - 00;19;42;03
Alex Langan
It's almost like being a detective and going in. So you have to grab,

00;19;42;05 - 00;19;49;12
Alex Langan
It's difficult because everyone this usually goes on for half a decade, a decade, and they don't even have the documents. So what they need to ask for is,

00;19;49;12 - 00;19;52;24
Alex Langan
it's called an arrest of four or AB2 disclosure form.

00;19;52;27 - 00;19;54;20
Alex Langan
That's the fee disclosure form.

00;19;54;23 - 00;20;05;13
Alex Langan
At the plan sponsor level, there's also the for a, for a five fee disclosure form. That is a plan, a participant disclosure form that's usually worthless.

00;20;05;13 - 00;20;14;06
Alex Langan
It just lists the investments and what the cost. It doesn't say anything about the the hidden fees inside. So you want your for a B to you want the contract,

00;20;14;09 - 00;20;17;25
Alex Langan
between you and the providers to make sure that,

00;20;17;27 - 00;20;19;09
Alex Langan
there isn't any in there.

00;20;19;10 - 00;20;23;00
Alex Langan
We'll talk about some rap fees and stuff so they may never disclose it.

00;20;23;03 - 00;20;28;20
Alex Langan
And then you want your investment fund line up with every single dollar in each investment.

00;20;28;23 - 00;20;33;28
Alex Langan
You grab those three, you will be able to get three and try to figure it out. Hopefully.

00;20;34;02 - 00;20;37;02
Alex Langan
You have to look at the C share class.

00;20;37;05 - 00;20;38;18
Alex Langan
There's a lot of different ones out there.

00;20;38;18 - 00;20;47;14
Alex Langan
Some are R1 to R6. R6 has no revenue sharing, R1 has the highest revenue sharing. There's also institutional pricing.

00;20;47;14 - 00;20;56;11
Alex Langan
You just have to look at the app, look at it and and see if they do have it listed. 1201 fees subject to fees.

00;20;56;11 - 00;20;58;13
Alex Langan
I go into it in the book quite a bit.

00;20;58;15 - 00;20;59;02
Alex Langan
Look at that.

00;20;59;02 - 00;21;03;08
Alex Langan
Look at a for AP two and look at your contract. Plus you may be paying out of pocket.

00;21;03;11 - 00;21;04;19
Alex Langan
There's a notorious,

00;21;04;23 - 00;21;08;19
Alex Langan
third party administrator there May, that doesn't offset revenue sharing.

00;21;08;22 - 00;21;11;02
Alex Langan
But they're not a fiduciary, so they don't legally it has to,

00;21;11;05 - 00;21;18;19
Alex Langan
so they just pocket all the money behind the scenes. Why? They still charge the employer directly for what their services actually cost?

00;21;18;22 - 00;21;21;18
Alex Langan
So hopefully that kind of helps. It's tricky.

00;21;21;20 - 00;21;24;24
Alex Langan
But it's a good start to get those three documents.

00;21;24;26 - 00;21;41;10
Craig Andrews
And I'll be honest, what you just said, it hurts my head. Sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. No, no, but what that tells me is, I mean, if somebody's sitting there, if somebody is listening and their heads hurt, they can't follow through that. Can they reach out to you?

00;21;41;13 - 00;21;43;03
Alex Langan
Absolutely. Yeah. We do these,

00;21;43;03 - 00;21;46;22
Alex Langan
we actually do or do ten, 15 a month, depending.

00;21;46;25 - 00;21;51;24
Alex Langan
For free. Like we're just go and get them done for people because we want them to be empowered,

00;21;52;00 - 00;21;52;29
Alex Langan
or even run,

00;21;52;29 - 00;21;54;26
Alex Langan
benchmark reports to say,

00;21;54;29 - 00;22;03;12
Alex Langan
it's a soft benchmark, but it'll grab your plan, breaks out all the fees for everyone, and then it puts you into low, average and high categories so you can see,

00;22;03;14 - 00;22;05;03
Alex Langan
is your plans reasonable or not?

00;22;05;05 - 00;22;07;17
Alex Langan
It's that simple that actually will check the box,

00;22;07;17 - 00;22;12;09
Alex Langan
as one institution applications to make sure your fees are reasonable.

00;22;12;12 - 00;22;23;19
Craig Andrews
Okay. Well, I think you just brought up something that that if if a lawsuit comes up, you can show that you did due diligence. Yep. To make sure you're meeting your fiduciary responsibility.

00;22;23;22 - 00;22;29;01
Alex Langan
That's part of it. Yep. And then the next would be the investments to make sure that they're appropriate for your,

00;22;29;03 - 00;22;44;08
Alex Langan
for your employees. But yeah, that's the first one. Is are your fees reasonable? The vast majority people are like, yeah. Because, you know, my provider tells me they are. That's like asking the fox if the hand, the hands are protected, like, oh yeah, no they're fine.

00;22;44;09 - 00;22;49;01
Alex Langan
Yeah. Don't worry about it. Don't check on them like it's it's that bad. Wow.

00;22;49;03 - 00;22;52;00
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, how could people reach you?

00;22;52;03 - 00;22;52;29
Alex Langan
You can find me,

00;22;52;29 - 00;22;56;25
Alex Langan
Alex at Langan. Langan financial.com.

00;22;56;28 - 00;23;02;23
Alex Langan
Or go to our website. Langan. Langan financial group.com. Or the easiest.

00;23;02;23 - 00;23;04;07
Craig Andrews
That's why I

00;23;04;07 - 00;23;07;28
Craig Andrews
Alex this has been a great discussion.

00;23;08;00 - 00;23;09;05
Craig Andrews
Illuminating

00;23;09;08 - 00;23;12;17
Craig Andrews
a little bit scary, but eliminating,

00;23;12;20 - 00;23;14;26
Craig Andrews
when's your book coming out?

00;23;14;28 - 00;23;17;00
Alex Langan
Spring. Early spring. It's wrapping up.

00;23;17;00 - 00;23;19;07
Alex Langan
And it's in the editor's hands, but,

00;23;19;10 - 00;23;24;27
Alex Langan
they just got it, and it's Christmas, so it'll be. It'll be spring. Okay. So excited about it.

00;23;24;29 - 00;23;29;24
Craig Andrews
Well, I hope people reach out to you, and I hope they get your book. And the title of the book, again is.

00;23;29;27 - 00;23;34;11
Alex Langan
For one K exposed is the main title is,

00;23;34;13 - 00;23;42;23
Alex Langan
it's a long, long title for one k expose that fiduciary formula. How elite employers protect their people and outperform the market.

00;23;42;26 - 00;23;46;19
Craig Andrews
Excellent. Well, Alex, thanks. Thanks for coming on Layers and Legacies. Thank you.

00;23;46;22 - 00;23;54;27
Alex Langan
Yeah I really appreciate it. It was fun.

00;23;54;29 - 00;24;16;21
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;24;16;21 - 00;24;18;16
Craig Andrews
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00;24;18;18 - 00;24;41;28
Craig Andrews
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00;24;42;00 - 00;24;50;05
Craig Andrews
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00;24;50;05 - 00;25;00;16
Craig Andrews
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