--- title: "Episode #263: Building a Firm That Outlives You: Erik Brenner on Leadership Through Integration" description: Discover how Erik Brenner built Hilltop Wealth & Tax Solutions by integrating proactive tax strategy with wealth management for enduring client impact. image: https://pod.allies4me.com/hubfs/Podcast/Episodes/Erik-Brenner-R-2.jpg --- [![Allies4me](https://pod.allies4me.com/hubfs/raw_assets/public/Allies4me_May2022/images/logo.svg "Allies4me")](https://allies4me.com/) Menu - [Home](https://allies4me.com/) - [Grow](https://allies4me.com/grow/) - [Financial Advisors](https://allies4me.com/grow/financial-advisors/) - [Foundations Courses](https://hub.allies4me.com/courses/course-signup/) - [Podcast](https://allies4me.com/podcast/) - [Have Craig Speak at Your Event](https://hub.allies4me.com/lp/speak/) - [Be a Guest](https://pod.allies4me.com/podcast-guest/) - [Get Started](https://allies4me.com/get-started/) - [Have Craig Speak at Your Event](https://hub.allies4me.com/lp/speak/) - [Community](https://allies4me.com/about/community/) - [Downloads](https://allies4me.com/downloads/) ## Episode #263: Building a Firm That Outlives You: Erik Brenner on Leadership Through Integration March 31, 2026 by [Craig Andrews](https://pod.allies4me.com/podcast/author/craig-andrews) Erik Brenner doesn’t lead from theory. He leads from structure. As President and CEO of Hilltop Wealth & Tax Solutions, Erik built a firm that integrates advanced tax strategy with wealth management. He saw what others missed: reactive advice was failing clients. CPAs focused on last year. Advisors focused on investments. No one owned the full picture. So he changed it. Erik shares how a defining client case exposed the cost of disconnected advice. Required minimum distributions were set to create a future tax crisis. The CPA didn’t see it. Erik did. That moment led him to build an in-house tax business designed to be proactive, not seasonal. He also explains how leadership means developing people. Early hires weren’t advisors. They were detail-driven operators who freed him to focus on strategy. He built a residency model to train future advisors the same way doctors train surgeons—through immersion and repetition. His philosophy is clear: delegate paperwork, never advice. Hire opposites. Build sustainable systems. Anticipate where the puck is going. Leadership, for Erik, means taking responsibility for outcomes before they become problems. Want to learn more about Erik Brenner's work? Check out their website at [https://hilltopwealthtax.com/](https://hilltopwealthtax.com/) Connect with Erik Brenner on LinkedIn at [https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikbrenner/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikbrenner/) ## Key Points with Time Stamps - **\[02:31\]** Filing his first tax return at 12 and lessons from an entrepreneurial father - **\[05:28\]** Why reactive CPAs fail clients—and what proactive leadership looks like - **\[06:09\]** Building an in-house tax team to integrate planning and execution - **\[07:50\]** Structuring a growing firm: advisors, tax specialists, and strategic partners - **\[09:43\]** Starting solo, scaling through acquisitions, and narrowing focus - **\[10:44\]** First hires: why leaders need complementary skill sets - **\[11:20\]** “Delegate paperwork, never advice” — leveraging time as a CEO - **\[14:41\]** Creating a residency program to develop future advisors - **\[16:52\]** The leadership mandate: develop people to scale impact - **\[18:08\]** Building a hiring process that ensures the right people are on the bus - **\[19:18\]** The defining moment that led to launching an in-house tax firm - **\[22:03\]** The SECURE Act and the coming “tax bomb” for retirees and heirs - **\[27:35\]** The Personal CFO Revolution and why individuals need a financial quarterback ## Transcript 00;00;05;20 - 00;00;30;20 Craig Andrews I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career. 00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;17 Craig Andrews My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show. 00;00;51;20 - 00;01;21;08 Craig Andrews Today, I will welcome Erik Brenner. He is the president and CEO of Hilltop Wealth and Tax Solutions. It's a fiduciary firm that integrates advanced tax planning and advanced financial planning with in-house tax strategy. And he is also the author of The Personal CFO Revolution. He has over 30 years of experience helping high net worth individuals. That includes pre retirees, business owners and medical professionals. 00;01;21;08 - 00;01;29;24 Craig Andrews He helps them transition from saving and building to preserving and distributing wealth and confidence. Erik, welcome. 00;01;29;26 - 00;01;33;21 Erik Brenner Hey, Craig. Thanks for having me. Look forward to being here. 00;01;33;23 - 00;01;35;02 Craig Andrews Yeah. So, 00;01;35;05 - 00;01;35;24 Craig Andrews we, 00;01;35;24 - 00;01;39;24 Craig Andrews you know, this episode is going to be going live in the spring, but the, 00;01;39;24 - 00;01;42;28 Craig Andrews while we're recording it, you guys have a problem with, 00;01;42;28 - 00;01;45;07 Craig Andrews iguanas falling out of the sky? 00;01;45;10 - 00;01;53;08 Erik Brenner Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually in Florida as as we're recording it. And because of the cold snap that has happened, 00;01;53;11 - 00;01;56;10 Erik Brenner we've had, you know, iguanas falling, 00;01;56;14 - 00;02;04;28 Erik Brenner not just sightings. And they actually have warming centers that you can take the iguanas to, to to help them get through this cold snap. 00;02;05;01 - 00;02;09;07 Craig Andrews Wow. Yeah, that's that's that's got to be wild. 00;02;09;09 - 00;02;10;18 Erik Brenner That is wild. 00;02;10;21 - 00;02;14;06 Craig Andrews Yeah. So, 00;02;14;08 - 00;02;31;19 Craig Andrews you said something in the green room that really caught my attention because it was a little bit reminiscent for me. You filed your first tax return. It. How old? 12. Well, yeah, that's pretty wild. What? What was it like? 00;02;31;19 - 00;02;33;04 Craig Andrews Why? 00;02;33;06 - 00;02;34;24 Erik Brenner Yeah. So, you know, I grew up in, 00;02;34;24 - 00;02;56;22 Erik Brenner you know, my my parents, my dad was an entrepreneur. And so I, you know, was very intrigued by that at an early age. And I went to work with him and he put me to work. So it wasn't just tag along and, you know, eat candy and bug people. So I went to work and I said, if you know, you're going to put me to work, you got to pay me. 00;02;56;23 - 00;03;12;05 Erik Brenner So, so, you know, I had enough an income back in the day that, you know, I filed a return. Probably not legal, I guess as far as the age goes. And so what it did is it taught me a good work ethic. You know, taught me a lot. 00;03;12;05 - 00;03;20;18 Erik Brenner Certainly my biggest mentor is my dad. And, you know, just how to get really a good start in life and in business. 00;03;20;21 - 00;03;28;20 Craig Andrews Yeah. Did you did you have to do the paperwork yourself? Did you actually have to do your own return? 00;03;28;23 - 00;03;40;13 Erik Brenner I think what happened, if I recall, because it's just been a few years that Craig. But I think the my, my, at the time, my dad's CPA accountant kind of took care of it. 00;03;40;16 - 00;03;43;12 Erik Brenner You know, along with their stuff, you know, 00;03;43;15 - 00;03;44;17 Erik Brenner if I recall. 00;03;44;25 - 00;03;49;22 Erik Brenner So and, you know, I continued to do that. I mean, I bought my first car, 00;03;49;25 - 00;03;53;01 Erik Brenner cash before I even had a driver's license. 00;03;53;03 - 00;03;58;06 Erik Brenner You know, I had to have someone drive at home. So, 00;03;58;09 - 00;04;00;13 Erik Brenner but, you know, those were fun times. 00;04;00;15 - 00;04;09;22 Erik Brenner They certainly were fun times. And, you know, I always liked, you know, showing some reward, which included an income off of the work I did. 00;04;09;24 - 00;04;12;08 Craig Andrews Yeah. I, 00;04;12;10 - 00;04;18;17 Craig Andrews I wasn't 12, I think I was maybe 14, 13 or 14. 00;04;18;20 - 00;04;24;11 Craig Andrews My dad sat me down at the dinner table and showed me how to file my first return, and, 00;04;24;11 - 00;04;28;05 Craig Andrews yeah, he I think he had a CPA doing his returns, and, 00;04;28;05 - 00;04;32;11 Craig Andrews a CPA would send him a nice box of chocolates every, every Christmas. 00;04;32;14 - 00;04;38;12 Craig Andrews And I remember one time he was showing off his box of chocolates to me. He was offering me one, of course. And, 00;04;38;12 - 00;04;45;07 Craig Andrews I said, well, you know what that means. He said, what? I said, you're paying your CPA too much, and. 00;04;45;09 - 00;04;46;04 Erik Brenner Yeah. 00;04;46;06 - 00;04;56;21 Craig Andrews But so interesting, you know, and, It's it's interesting. I talk to a lot of wealth managers and, 00;04;56;24 - 00;05;08;05 Craig Andrews a lot not many would be. They call themselves tax advisors. They always, you know, many of them have tax strategies, but, 00;05;08;05 - 00;05;16;26 Craig Andrews you're actually, I just I'm trying to remember from my notes. Are you a CPA? 00;05;16;29 - 00;05;28;19 Erik Brenner No, I'm not a CPA. You. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a CFP. But, you know, we we just several years ago really saw the need and kind of directly that clients, 00;05;28;19 - 00;05;35;29 Erik Brenner wanted to have that, you know, as part of the overall service, you know, and advice deliverable and, 00;05;35;29 - 00;05;41;08 Erik Brenner things are just way more complex than they were even ten years ago, 15 years ago. 00;05;41;10 - 00;05;52;15 Erik Brenner And so, you know, we went down a path and working with other CPAs and so forth with their CPAs, and it was just never really a real collective type, 00;05;52;21 - 00;06;09;14 Erik Brenner team. And oftentimes I found that they had a hard time looking out into the future. And I was kind of this year, this year only. And so we, you know, several years ago established our own tax team on tax business. 00;06;09;17 - 00;06;18;16 Erik Brenner So we've integrated that tax business. I have a partner on the tax side that runs that business, and we integrate it within the work that we do. 00;06;18;19 - 00;06;34;13 Erik Brenner And not only do you know tax preparation is one thing, but we do we do true tax planning, you know, giving people actual projections and then also talking about strategy and reduction of tax. 00;06;34;15 - 00;06;36;04 Craig Andrews You. Yeah. 00;06;36;07 - 00;06;57;02 Craig Andrews One of my frustrations in my journey has been I had to learn about all my tax strategies from someone other than my CPA, you know, and something as simple as, like the Augusta role. You know, I had to somebody told me about the Augusta rule, and I had to call my CPA and say, hey, I heard about this thing called the Augusta rule. 00;06;57;04 - 00;07;07;01 Craig Andrews Can I use it? And he's like, oh, yeah, sure. And so they're thinking, why am I telling why? Why is it that I'm the one telling you about this? 00;07;07;03 - 00;07;34;15 Erik Brenner Yeah. I mean, I think I mean that it's not uncommon. You know, I think it's partly due to, you know, the work that they're doing, right? And they're just doing the work. And again, proactive. Right. You know, there's very few that actually operate in a proactive fashion so that are more in a reactive fashion. And so they just, you know, don't a lot of them just don't have that mindset. 00;07;34;18 - 00;07;43;03 Erik Brenner So it's pretty common what you've experienced. And that's one of the reasons why we've integrated it into, you know, what we do. 00;07;43;06 - 00;07;47;17 Craig Andrews Yeah. Now how how big is your team? 00;07;47;20 - 00;07;50;15 Erik Brenner So we have seven wealth advisors on the team. 00;07;50;18 - 00;07;53;14 Erik Brenner Then we have a support team underneath that. 00;07;53;17 - 00;07;58;28 Erik Brenner And then we have on the tax side, we have 7 or 8 on the tax side. 00;07;59;01 - 00;07;59;26 Erik Brenner Overall, 00;07;59;29 - 00;08;07;24 Erik Brenner our tax business does do counting, bookkeeping, payroll. So, you know, it's and plus obviously tax work. 00;08;07;27 - 00;08;14;09 Erik Brenner And then and then what we do is we have a couple partners we work with that we consider on our team actually. 00;08;14;12 - 00;08;14;27 Erik Brenner But 00;08;14;27 - 00;08;16;03 Erik Brenner we have a 00;08;16;03 - 00;08;17;14 Erik Brenner team that does, 00;08;17;14 - 00;08;26;03 Erik Brenner CPA team that does nothing but tax mitigation strategies for higher income, higher net worth folks. 00;08;26;06 - 00;08;29;14 Erik Brenner So we work with them, you know, we partner with them and work on, 00;08;29;14 - 00;08;34;01 Erik Brenner client situation, bring them in the client meetings, you know, work with the advisors. 00;08;34;04 - 00;08;36;20 Erik Brenner So we're able to leverage that as well. 00;08;36;23 - 00;08;57;16 Craig Andrews Yeah. You know, I remember something my dad told me, he he said, you'll never gain much work, you know, great wealth until you work for yourself. And and I think a lot of that was because of the, you know, the tax strategies that are available to business owners as opposed to employees. 00;08;57;19 - 00;09;11;14 Erik Brenner Yeah. I mean, I think that certainly is part of it. And, you know, and, you know, in a lot of cases, right, you can control, you know, what, you may come up, you know, you know, and hopefully things work out right from that perspective. 00;09;11;17 - 00;09;16;11 Erik Brenner I always liked knowing that, you know, I wasn't going to go in and lose a job. 00;09;16;13 - 00;09;22;04 Erik Brenner You know, I knew I'm not going to fire myself, probably. Although maybe sometimes I should. 00;09;22;07 - 00;09;28;09 Erik Brenner But yeah, you also have those advantages as a, you know, as a business owner from a tax perspective, 00;09;28;12 - 00;09;32;22 Erik Brenner you know, that you can, you can use to your advantage as well. 00;09;32;24 - 00;09;39;11 Craig Andrews That you start off as you know, do you start off as yourself and then start adding or did you 00;09;39;15 - 00;09;43;05 Craig Andrews buy a firm? Did you rise up in a firm? How'd that go? 00;09;43;08 - 00;09;53;11 Erik Brenner No, I started off as myself and then as I continued to grow, then I started some acquisitions. So we've had several acquisitions over the years. 00;09;53;11 - 00;09;59;27 Erik Brenner I've actually sold some of those pieces of the business. So, you know, I've done that along the way. 00;10;00;00 - 00;10;13;26 Erik Brenner And I did that for, you know, just because as we grew, it was harder and harder to kind of know everything, you know, to kind of have be a general practitioner just because of the changes and the complexities. 00;10;13;29 - 00;10;19;03 Erik Brenner And so, you know, we've continued to narrow our focus on who we work with. 00;10;19;06 - 00;10;23;07 Erik Brenner And, and then it's developed into, you know, a, 00;10;23;10 - 00;10;36;16 Erik Brenner Ria registered investment advisory independent firm developed into that. And then adding the tax piece, you know, and developing into being much more comprehensive for the clients. 00;10;36;19 - 00;10;38;25 Craig Andrews You know, what were some 00;10;38;25 - 00;10;44;24 Craig Andrews so let's talk about your, your, your first hire. Did you hire somebody like you or somebody not like you. 00;10;44;27 - 00;10;50;23 Erik Brenner Know, I hired somebody that was very detail oriented that could, 00;10;50;25 - 00;10;56;24 Erik Brenner relieve me of the stuff that was not productive. So, 00;10;56;27 - 00;11;07;13 Erik Brenner I think early on I identified that, you know, there's stuff that as an advisor, I should not be doing. And, 00;11;07;13 - 00;11;15;22 Erik Brenner so they, they're totally opposite. And I have still on the team today people that are have opposites of me, 00;11;15;25 - 00;11;17;29 Erik Brenner or the team itself. 00;11;18;01 - 00;11;20;13 Erik Brenner And it's intentional because, 00;11;20;13 - 00;11;22;08 Erik Brenner a I'm not a paperwork. I, 00;11;22;08 - 00;11;28;02 Erik Brenner I've always told clients that I'll never delegate advice. I'll always delegate the paperwork. 00;11;28;05 - 00;11;31;19 Erik Brenner So I do that. Secondly, as a leverage of time. 00;11;31;22 - 00;11;44;03 Erik Brenner So I always want to leverage my time. And so I identified that early on, probably a lot to do with my father and what he taught me along the way as well in leveraging time. 00;11;44;05 - 00;11;56;16 Erik Brenner But, you know, fortunately, I, I've felt and saw it early on, like, and I really need to have this person and I was willing to spend the money on it. 00;11;56;18 - 00;12;01;14 Craig Andrews Yeah, yeah. I had, 00;12;01;16 - 00;12;07;18 Craig Andrews this is actually my first hire and my, my own business. I worked in industry before, but, 00;12;07;22 - 00;12;18;13 Craig Andrews so my name's Elena, and she works for me again, and she, she came up to me one day and started talking. Listen, listen, listen. When she was done talking, I said, let me see if I have this right. 00;12;18;15 - 00;12;30;10 Craig Andrews There was a problem. You identified the problem, you fix the problem, and you're just here kind of giving me a summary. You don't need anything from me. She's like, right? It's like, bless you, you know? Right. 00;12;30;10 - 00;12;40;04 Craig Andrews And that's. But she's a detail person. She's a detail person who takes care of all the details so I can focus on other things. 00;12;40;06 - 00;12;45;00 Craig Andrews How about your second hire? What? So once you had that, what would. What was your next hire? 00;12;45;03 - 00;12;49;14 Erik Brenner Yeah. You're really taking me back? You know, I've been doing this 32 years, so, 00;12;49;17 - 00;12;52;21 Erik Brenner it's probably hard to remember, but, 00;12;52;24 - 00;13;00;06 Erik Brenner you know, it definitely wasn't an advisor. It was another one that in the support. Mac, is the support side of it. 00;13;00;09 - 00;13;14;05 Erik Brenner And I think that one was to shadow me. So it was, you know, you're going to run alongside me and, you know, being client appointments, you know, help with client, 00;13;14;05 - 00;13;16;16 Erik Brenner follow up things like that, 00;13;16;19 - 00;13;19;13 Erik Brenner so that I can move on to the next one. 00;13;19;15 - 00;13;30;11 Erik Brenner So I'm just not real good if I have a busy week and then I've got a stack of, like, stuff to get through, that's just not me. So, 00;13;30;11 - 00;13;55;06 Erik Brenner And I was pretty. I was honest with, you know, probably more brutally honest with myself going, okay, that's not me. Because if that stack of stuff and I'm not saying I don't have stuff to always to do, but, you know, particularly when it comes to clients, and if I have that stack of stuff to do and it's a Friday afternoon and now rolls over to the next week and, you know, it just continues. 00;13;55;08 - 00;14;14;10 Erik Brenner So I, you know, wanted early on identified that, you know, I don't want to have that at the end of the week. You know, I want to be the doctor that comes in diagnose works with the patient. Right. This is what we need to do. And then I'm moving on. 00;14;14;12 - 00;14;15;01 Craig Andrews Yeah. 00;14;15;03 - 00;14;28;27 Erik Brenner And so I did that and I've been doing that for a lot of years now. And I still have someone I don't, I, you know, I have a limited client base now with the other responsibilities in the firm, but I'm, 00;14;29;00 - 00;14;35;23 Erik Brenner I'm hardly ever on a engagement with a client that doesn't have somebody with me. 00;14;35;25 - 00;14;36;29 Craig Andrews It's smart. 00;14;37;02 - 00;14;37;28 Craig Andrews Smart. 00;14;38;00 - 00;14;41;10 Erik Brenner And it's a teaching mechanism. So, you know, I've had, 00;14;41;13 - 00;14;52;17 Erik Brenner I've got a couple people that worked for me, and now they own their own firms. You know, it just didn't work out with us. They grew, you know, they branched off, and now they literally are running their own firms. 00;14;52;20 - 00;14;57;09 Erik Brenner But they started in that position running alongside and learning it. 00;14;57;12 - 00;15;19;14 Erik Brenner The other thing is, it's gotten so much more complex in a lot of ways that if somebody wants to, you know, have an interest in being in the career and advisor, you know, advisory role at some capacity or even in planning things of that nature, it takes a lot to just get someone up to speed. 00;15;19;17 - 00;15;24;25 Erik Brenner And so we put in a residency program that say, you know, you got to do your residency program. 00;15;24;25 - 00;15;45;16 Erik Brenner You know, we can't can't, you know, have you have responsibilities with clients just right out of the gate. You got to learn it, and you need to think about the medical profession. That's what they do, right? They by the time they're able to do surgeries on their own, they have seen so much and have been running alongside experienced surgeons. 00;15;45;16 - 00;15;46;28 Erik Brenner And, you know, 00;15;47;01 - 00;15;54;14 Erik Brenner that that it's natural to them. They know what to do. And so that's how we think about it in our firm. 00;15;54;16 - 00;16;11;03 Craig Andrews Yeah. You know, and I'm sure it was sad when you lost those people. But I would also imagine there's a great sense of pride to see that you were able to launch multiple businesses, launch people into their own careers, successful careers. Having worked with you. Yeah. 00;16;11;04 - 00;16;30;11 Erik Brenner No, it definitely is. I mean, it's yeah, it is sad to see them go, but you know what? You're not going to be a fit for everybody, you know. And I'm not taking it personally. You know, it's just it's just not a fit for everybody. So I'm glad that there was a foundation there. They saw the need. You know, there wasn't a fit long term. 00;16;30;14 - 00;16;42;21 Erik Brenner And they were able to kind of branch off. And, you know, grow within what they wanted to grow and achieve, you know, work on achieving what they want to achieve. 00;16;42;23 - 00;16;45;24 Craig Andrews Yeah. 00;16;45;27 - 00;16;52;11 Craig Andrews If there's been one leadership lesson that you've learned in this journey, what what would you say it's been? 00;16;52;14 - 00;17;25;04 Erik Brenner Yeah. I mean, I think the is, you know, to be thinking about the development of, you know, the development of people. So, you know, you can only go so far on your own or even with a small team, you know, you you've just, you know, there's only so much you can do and you have to develop people. And so, you know, I try to and I've gotten better over the years try to think about, you know, is this something I could be doing that I could be showing someone else? 00;17;25;06 - 00;17;28;29 Erik Brenner Yeah. And so continuing to develop people, 00;17;29;02 - 00;17;39;11 Erik Brenner I think, you know, is a huge leadership lesson and, and you know, hopefully whatever business someone's in, hopefully they can get to a point where they can do that. 00;17;39;14 - 00;17;49;00 Erik Brenner And, and that's been, you know, a huge lift. The other one, I mean, you said one, but I think you know, the right hire, putting the right people on the bus. 00;17;49;02 - 00;18;08;04 Erik Brenner And several years ago, we put a process in place on, you know, when we bring people in. And that was made. It just a really big difference because, you know, we're identifying them on the front end and, you know, working through the process. So once they start, we really feel like they're the right person on the bus. 00;18;08;07 - 00;18;11;13 Craig Andrews That's cool. Do you guys use the iOS system? 00;18;11;15 - 00;18;16;20 Erik Brenner We don't use the iOS system. No, but I mean, I know a lot about it. I've read the book, but yeah, at this point. 00;18;16;24 - 00;18;23;10 Craig Andrews I was just like, here's my hearing. People talking about the right seat on the bus and on the right. So I immediately go to iOS. 00;18;23;10 - 00;18;38;02 Erik Brenner Yeah, yeah, I mean, good to great. You know, you've got these, you know, kind of books, right, and so forth that are out there that talk about saying a little bit different, but, you know, getting the right people in the seats, right. However you want to say it. But, you know, making sure that, you know, you've got the right people. 00;18;38;04 - 00;18;57;15 Craig Andrews Yeah. So when was the inflection point when you decided to bring taxes in-house? Because that fascinates me, because like I said, a lot of firms will think about taxes, but they're not as forward as you are. And you said that you even do some of the bookkeeping services. And yeah, down the bookkeeping, that's that. To me that seems, 00;18;57;18 - 00;18;58;00 Craig Andrews weird. 00;18;58;00 - 00;19;07;28 Craig Andrews And I don't mean that in a bad way, but weird and a unusual. And so I'm curious what what made you decide to do that and how far into the journey was that? 00;19;08;01 - 00;19;08;25 Erik Brenner So, 00;19;08;25 - 00;19;19;04 Erik Brenner well, we, you know, we the journey was that, you know, again, we would collaborate or try to collaborate with CPAs that, you know, clients work with. And, 00;19;19;04 - 00;19;28;29 Erik Brenner you know, it was several years ago that we were working on a client case, and they were going to have some tax issues down the road because of required minimum distributions. 00;19;29;02 - 00;19;32;07 Erik Brenner These are dollars that have to come out of IRAs, 00;19;32;07 - 00;19;34;21 Erik Brenner you know, forced out by the IRS, 00;19;34;24 - 00;19;49;15 Erik Brenner by Uncle Sam. And they are they're they're projections were having large distributions down the road and they were in a lower tax bracket today. And so I did the projections and I said, now we need to go see your CPA. 00;19;49;18 - 00;19;59;10 Erik Brenner And they took it to the CPA who by the way, I referred them to to do their taxes. CPA said that's not a good idea. And 00;19;59;10 - 00;20;00;27 Erik Brenner so I talked to him and I said, 00;20;01;05 - 00;20;11;29 Erik Brenner let me just understand this. You know how much they have an IRA money? No, I don't know. They said. So. Do you realize what they're required distributions are going to be projected. 00;20;11;29 - 00;20;23;12 Erik Brenner No, I don't have a clue. And once I shared with them, they were like, oh, my gosh, I see that as a defining moment, going, okay, we need to start our own. So, you know, 00;20;23;12 - 00;20;28;28 Erik Brenner a lot of colleagues over the years, it's like, how do you start it? Where do you start? And I said, I'm just going to start a tax business. 00;20;28;28 - 00;20;52;00 Erik Brenner I'm going to find somebody that has always wanted to be in business. That's in the tax business, and we're going to put this together. And so we started that five years ago. We brought it together. And then in the meantime we've acquired two businesses. I really wanted to have that a sustainable business. So it's a separate entity, sustainable business all within, you know kind of our umbrella. 00;20;52;02 - 00;21;20;11 Erik Brenner A lot of firms that do what I do, they that's a loss leader forum. So they bring it on and they do a loss leader. And I said I want a sustainable business. Which part of that would be having this ongoing work. So it's not just work during tax time. It's working with businesses ongoing. Right. Bookkeeping financials. So our business now has, you know, some, you know, ongoing business work. 00;21;20;11 - 00;21;22;27 Erik Brenner We certainly do a lot of tax work. 00;21;23;00 - 00;21;30;01 Erik Brenner And so I wanted a sustainable business to work into the model when I talk to other firms, I've done a lot of podcasts. And, 00;21;30;01 - 00;21;43;18 Erik Brenner a couple of them were just launched. This comes up when in my industry. How did you do it? I mean, people are really, really interested in it, and I think it's where the puck's going, quite frankly, because, you know, people that we work with that get into retirement. 00;21;43;20 - 00;22;02;19 Erik Brenner For most of those people, health care will not be their biggest expense. It'll be tax bar none, 3 or 4 times more than health care. If they need health care, long term care, things like that, at the end of life, then it could catch up. Beyond that, a lot of people it's going to be tax period. 00;22;02;22 - 00;22;03;08 Erik Brenner And. 00;22;03;08 - 00;22;04;15 Craig Andrews So that's saying a lot. 00;22;04;18 - 00;22;31;00 Erik Brenner That's saying a lot in tax projections with qualified assets, IRAs. Right, that people are saving in the way they're saving where you're seeing required minimum distributions now that are well into the six figures, that means money that has to come out, pay tax on it even if you don't need it. So I think where the puck's going is people are going to run into that because again, this is where we're saving. 00;22;31;02 - 00;22;35;07 Erik Brenner When I started in the business, a 400 and K was just getting rolling. 00;22;35;10 - 00;22;58;04 Erik Brenner Now, you know, there's $40 trillion in these accounts. They get to be taxed. So I think the puck's going where people are going to need advice on how am I going to do this? The other law that changed the two, there were two laws Secure Access Care Act 2.0, change the game for people in giving money to the next generation, changed the game. 00;22;58;06 - 00;22;59;04 Erik Brenner And so 00;22;59;04 - 00;23;19;00 Erik Brenner that there's just a there's this big tax we call it, you know, big tax bomb. Right. That's going to continue to grow. So we really had a belief that that's where the puck's going. And we need to integrate this. A lot of advisors really can't talk about it if they work for a firm they can't even know if they have the capability. 00;23;19;02 - 00;23;25;24 Erik Brenner You know I know advisors that are CPAs, very skilled and they work for a large firm. They can't they can't talk about taxes 00;23;25;27 - 00;23;29;19 Erik Brenner just because the firm's got to protect the greater good. 00;23;29;22 - 00;23;31;07 Craig Andrews Right? Right, right. 00;23;31;10 - 00;23;36;14 Erik Brenner So and so we don't hide behind it. You know, we tell people we'll talk about taxes all day long. 00;23;36;17 - 00;23;44;23 Erik Brenner You know, it's not it's one piece of a big, big pie that we help people with. But it's an important piece. 00;23;44;25 - 00;23;52;18 Craig Andrews So this secure act that you're talking about, basically it's it's trying to take a bigger chunk, of, 00;23;52;21 - 00;23;53;01 Craig Andrews of, 00;23;53;01 - 00;23;54;09 Craig Andrews inheritances. 00;23;54;12 - 00;24;22;05 Erik Brenner Well, yeah. So what it did is two things. One is that it moved back, required minimum distribution dates and ages. So it moved those back. So that sounds good, right? Like I don't have to start taking it now till, you know, 73 or 75 compared to 70.5. But what used to happen is if, if, if, if I, if I died with an IRA and I left it to my child or my, you know, my beneficiary, they didn't have to take it all out. 00;24;22;06 - 00;24;45;13 Erik Brenner They could take it out as a pension for life. Every year they take a minimum out and then they die. They could pass it on to their kid and their kids. So it's generation, generation, generation secure act said no more ten years. So what happens now is somebody dies with an IRA, they can leave it to their spouse, but it goes on to the next generation. 00;24;45;15 - 00;24;59;01 Erik Brenner That next generation now has ten years to take all the money out. Ten well, now that next generation, which we're dealing with right now, is we've got many cases where they they inherited this money, they're still working. 00;24;59;03 - 00;25;00;09 Craig Andrews Right. 00;25;00;11 - 00;25;11;24 Erik Brenner If they've got really good jobs. And now they got ten years to figure out how to get this money out. And many times if they're not careful, it's going to pump under the top tax bracket. 00;25;11;27 - 00;25;25;20 Erik Brenner And so that got eliminated. They're doing this actually around the world. The UK is going through this right. I think when they set this up initially they did, you know, they did not envision the amount of money to be in these plans. 00;25;25;22 - 00;25;48;17 Erik Brenner Yeah. So they changed the game period. So that happened in 2020 was the first secure act and trillions of dollars in there that's yet to be taxed. So what happens a lot of times when people retire. Yeah their actual taxable income goes down. Their income. You know they still can have the income that sustains them. But taxable income can drop quite substantially. 00;25;48;22 - 00;26;01;02 Erik Brenner And then all of a sudden they get see it. And then all of a sudden it starts going up. And then it's it continues to go up. And their lifetime tax during retirement is much more than what they expected. 00;26;01;04 - 00;26;07;18 Craig Andrews And what and what you would hope would be a gift to the next generation ends up becoming a bit of a liability. 00;26;07;20 - 00;26;20;13 Erik Brenner Correct? Whereas a Roth IRA tax free to the generation, they still now have to take it out ten years. Okay, well, at the end of the 10th year after death, but it's tax free. Yep. So, 00;26;20;13 - 00;26;38;20 Erik Brenner so there's this, you know, it would be a shame, you know, from a standpoint of somebody saving all their life, they take out the minimums, passes to their beneficiary, and then now their beneficiaries got to, you know, pay 40% of it's a tax or plus that's the shame that that came from hard work. 00;26;38;22 - 00;27;02;08 Erik Brenner You know, because all of those monies came from people saving and putting in. Yeah. We're not talking pensions, right. We're not you know, we're not talking inherited. We're talking about typically they inherited, you know, they saved it. So going back to what your question was why did we integrate that. That's one of the major reasons. And then other reasons came about where people are going. 00;27;02;08 - 00;27;11;23 Erik Brenner Well, I'm working with you anyway. I really would like it if you can just help me overall. Right. And so that's how the tax that's how the tax integrates. 00;27;11;25 - 00;27;13;08 Craig Andrews Erik, this has been fascinating. 00;27;13;11 - 00;27;14;28 Craig Andrews We can go another hour easily. 00;27;14;28 - 00;27;20;20 Craig Andrews Yeah. We need to wrap up. Yeah. Erik, how can people reach you? 00;27;20;23 - 00;27;35;01 Erik Brenner Yeah. So the best way they can go is, you know, they can get. Our best way to reach is go to the website. It's hilltop wealth tax.com. Hilltop wealth tax.com. And on the on that website they can actually find a, 00;27;35;01 - 00;27;36;14 Erik Brenner I wrote a book 00;27;36;17 - 00;27;41;21 Erik Brenner and so they can download a free copy of the book. It's called the personal CFO Revolution. 00;27;41;23 - 00;27;55;13 Erik Brenner So, you know, first Chief Financial Officer, you know, we really believe that, you know, individuals should have their own CFO. Things have gotten a lot more complex, right? There's been three major, 00;27;55;16 - 00;28;02;01 Erik Brenner tax overhaul, secure, act, secure act 2.0, and the one big, beautiful bill in the last five years, 00;28;02;04 - 00;28;05;21 Erik Brenner plus a lot of other changes, a lot more investment choices. 00;28;05;23 - 00;28;12;08 Erik Brenner So we really help people as their chief financial officer on, on a personal basis, making decisions. 00;28;12;10 - 00;28;16;15 Craig Andrews Now, I love that. Well, Erik, thanks for coming on, Leaders and Legacies. 00;28;16;18 - 00;28;24;26 Erik Brenner Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it. 00;28;24;28 - 00;28;46;18 Craig Andrews This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this 00;28;46;18 - 00;28;48;13 Craig Andrews episode on social media. 00;28;48;15 - 00;29;11;27 Craig Andrews Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest. Tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything. 00;29;11;29 - 00;29;20;04 Craig Andrews Please go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up. Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me. 00;29;20;04 - 00;29;30;13 Craig Andrews It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. 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