Episode #264: From Conflict to Cohesion: Turning Strong Personalities into Strong Teams with Sriram Mangudi

Sriram Mangudi believes leadership reveals itself in moments of pressure. In this episode, he shares hard-earned lessons from global HR leadership, M&A integrations, and navigating COVID while running essential pharmaceutical operations.

He explains why most leaders fail during transformation: they push agendas instead of listening. In one high-stakes acquisition, Sriram walked into a room filled with suspicion. Instead of forcing integration plans, he listened. That shift built trust, preserved value, and turned a tense acquisition into a long-term success.

Sriram breaks down what separates reactive managers from strategic leaders. Strong leaders create space for dialogue. They protect autonomy. They focus on root causes instead of surface symptoms. During COVID, while others reacted daily to chaos, his team focused on preventive health and long-term workforce stability. That decision preserved operations and saved lives.

He also challenges private equity’s habit of replacing executives too quickly. Sustainable performance requires governance, alignment, and transparent communication—not constant leadership churn.

Leadership is not about control. It’s about clarity, calm, and disciplined execution when the ground shifts beneath you.

Want to learn more about Sriram Mangudi's work? Check out their website at https://consultmsg.com/.

Connect with Sriram Mangudi on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/srirammangudi/.

Key Points with Time Stamps

00:01:03 – Sriram’s background in global HR leadership and enterprise value creation
00:03:00 – Shared history, cultural perspective, and working across borders
00:09:20 – Why diverse, opinionated talent drives innovation—not dysfunction
00:12:00 – High-tension M&A integration: winning trust through listening
00:14:45 – The leadership gifts of autonomy and true dialogue
00:18:06 – Leading essential operations during COVID lockdowns
00:22:49 – Preventive leadership: solving root causes vs. managing symptoms
00:24:13 – Why replacing CEOs too quickly hurts private equity performance
00:25:28 – Governance, alignment, and reducing executive attrition
00:27:07 – The human side of integration: fear, identity, and stability

Transcript

00;00;05;20 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;11
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.

00;00;51;14 - 00;01;03;16
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Sriram Mangudi. He is the principal consultant at consultMSG, which I'm assuming is not monosodium glutamate. We'll figure out what that is.

00;01;03;19 - 00;01;24;09
Craig Andrews
He brings over 25 years of global H.R. Leadership across fortune 500 industrial, pharmaceutical and consumer companies. Hey partners with executives and investors to assess leadership and organizational risk, align talent and culture, and to drive enterprise value.

00;01;24;11 - 00;01;29;12
Craig Andrews
Well, that is good medicine for everybody. Shri Ram, welcome.

00;01;29;15 - 00;01;32;13
Sriram Mangudi
Thank you. Great pleasure to be with you.

00;01;32;15 - 00;01;34;18
Craig Andrews
Glad we and we you know, we were having such,

00;01;34;18 - 00;01;38;16
Craig Andrews
an amazing conversation in the green room and,

00;01;38;18 - 00;01;39;11
Craig Andrews
it's,

00;01;39;11 - 00;01;42;20
Craig Andrews
I mean, first off, you're from. You're from India.

00;01;42;20 - 00;01;45;04
Craig Andrews
And where where in India are you from?

00;01;45;06 - 00;01;47;08
Sriram Mangudi
Right. From a town called Hyderabad.

00;01;47;11 - 00;01;53;05
Sriram Mangudi
Which, funnily enough, has another town by the same name in Pakistan. So,

00;01;53;08 - 00;01;56;00
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah, but I'm from southern India.

00;01;56;02 - 00;02;16;08
Craig Andrews
Wow. And in a it's, you know, one of the things and this was the reason I asked, it was like, you know, in the US, you know, we have a lot of towns named after British cities. You know, I grew up in Cambridge, Maryland. There's a Cambridge, Massachusetts, of course, there's a Cambridge, Ohio. There's a handful of Cambridge's.

00;02;16;10 - 00;02;28;10
Craig Andrews
But I was wondering I was just kind of curious, how does it feel for Indians to have. It's a parallel town in in Pakistan called Hyderabad. And how does it feel for Pakistanis to have one? And,

00;02;28;13 - 00;02;32;05
Craig Andrews
is there any type of ownership of, hey, that's our town's name?

00;02;32;08 - 00;02;32;25
Sriram Mangudi
Well, I think,

00;02;32;25 - 00;02;41;01
Sriram Mangudi
first of all, or Hyderabad in both these countries, both these countries were one at one point of time, especially out of the British Empire,

00;02;41;04 - 00;02;42;19
Sriram Mangudi
back in the day and,

00;02;42;21 - 00;02;45;20
Sriram Mangudi
you know, we share a long common history and,

00;02;45;28 - 00;02;46;12
Sriram Mangudi
of course,

00;02;46;14 - 00;02;47;19
Sriram Mangudi
the Arabs and Mughals,

00;02;47;19 - 00;02;48;11
Sriram Mangudi
as they're known,

00;02;48;14 - 00;02;53;26
Sriram Mangudi
you know, were there in India many, many centuries before the British stopped doing it.

00;02;53;27 - 00;03;03;02
Sriram Mangudi
So I think it, it it's a great reminder of the roots that we share across different parts of the world and how we all come together,

00;03;03;05 - 00;03;04;09
Sriram Mangudi
have differences,

00;03;04;09 - 00;03;06;24
Sriram Mangudi
fight with each other often and but yet,

00;03;06;24 - 00;03;14;24
Sriram Mangudi
we create beautiful places and all the Hyderabad's are really incredible places. And, you know, I've absolutely enjoyed,

00;03;14;27 - 00;03;23;16
Sriram Mangudi
learning as much about high ground Pakistan as I have about I actually have a colleague, in my company consult em as she goes.

00;03;23;16 - 00;03;28;27
Sriram Mangudi
You by the way, stands for Management and Strategy and Growth. And,

00;03;28;27 - 00;03;31;28
Sriram Mangudi
my, my, my partner is, is from Pakistan, and,

00;03;31;28 - 00;03;33;16
Sriram Mangudi
it's been just wonderful knowing,

00;03;33;16 - 00;03;40;18
Sriram Mangudi
someone else that never worked with the Pakistani across my career. So it's, Yeah, it's it's it's a fun discovery.

00;03;40;21 - 00;03;56;13
Craig Andrews
Well, and one of the things I've heard is that for many years, there's just been a lot of conflict between Pakistan, India and, you know, just bitter. I mean, not just conflict, but, you know, war.

00;03;56;16 - 00;04;01;09
Craig Andrews
And that that border up there, it's just been rough.

00;04;01;12 - 00;04;11;02
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah, it's been rough. I mean, and, we fought in 71, we fought and, back as a late,

00;04;11;02 - 00;04;12;18
Sriram Mangudi
as recent as 2008,

00;04;12;21 - 00;04;13;19
Sriram Mangudi
you know, and,

00;04;13;19 - 00;04;14;15
Sriram Mangudi
yeah, but,

00;04;14;15 - 00;04;19;20
Sriram Mangudi
there's also a lot of fun that brings these countries together. We we play a ton of cricket.

00;04;19;23 - 00;04;20;18
Sriram Mangudi
And, and,

00;04;20;18 - 00;04;26;02
Sriram Mangudi
you know, people across both nations love, the athletes and the sports become and,

00;04;26;02 - 00;04;28;06
Sriram Mangudi
across both sides of the border.

00;04;28;09 - 00;04;33;09
Sriram Mangudi
And I realize that, in fact, I wish to Pakistan is, still,

00;04;33;12 - 00;04;34;01
Sriram Mangudi
regarded as,

00;04;34;01 - 00;04;38;10
Sriram Mangudi
a is a boyhood hero for most and women in India especially,

00;04;38;10 - 00;04;43;15
Sriram Mangudi
you know, because spring breakers. So so I think yeah, there's, there's,

00;04;43;18 - 00;04;46;09
Sriram Mangudi
there's conflict and then at the same time,

00;04;46;12 - 00;04;50;03
Sriram Mangudi
because of the roots that we share, people have also found ways.

00;04;50;03 - 00;04;53;07
Sriram Mangudi
And so it is an uneasy tension. And I just wish we,

00;04;53;10 - 00;04;58;23
Sriram Mangudi
you know, we put more of the conflict away and, and be nicer to each other.

00;04;58;26 - 00;05;05;26
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and it's it's challenging. I mean, you know, here in the United States, we had our own civil war, and there's still,

00;05;05;29 - 00;05;12;10
Craig Andrews
you get in certain parts of the South and there's still a lot of tension left over from,

00;05;12;10 - 00;05;13;19
Craig Andrews
from the war.

00;05;13;22 - 00;05;16;13
Craig Andrews
You know, I, I grew up in the North.

00;05;16;16 - 00;05;18;19
Craig Andrews
My wife is from Texas.

00;05;18;19 - 00;05;21;13
Craig Andrews
And it's funny, just as recently as Christmas,

00;05;21;16 - 00;05;40;27
Craig Andrews
my brother in law was using the term Yankee, which, you know, I've got thick skin. I, I can take it. But, you know, I've lived in the South my entire adult life. And usually when I hear that phrase, it's not in a, warm and friendly way. And she actually said, hey, you know, that's kind of offensive to them when they when you use that term.

00;05;41;00 - 00;05;43;13
Craig Andrews
And he had no idea.

00;05;43;15 - 00;05;48;03
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah. Yeah. Well and yeah, we, we, we call sometimes people

00;05;48;03 - 00;05;51;21
Sriram Mangudi
by certain names and even in India you, you would have

00;05;51;21 - 00;05;55;09
Sriram Mangudi
not Indians or people. Person from North India called someone from the South.

00;05;55;09 - 00;05;57;28
Sriram Mangudi
And we have so India has more than 30 states.

00;05;58;01 - 00;06;00;26
Sriram Mangudi
And yet for some time, a lot of people in the North,

00;06;00;26 - 00;06;09;07
Sriram Mangudi
everyone will go by a particular expression and they'll like they wouldn't distinguish, you know, one state from another when referring to a person.

00;06;09;07 - 00;06;12;09
Sriram Mangudi
It kind of commonly clubbed them in just one lump.

00;06;12;12 - 00;06;21;21
Sriram Mangudi
Like we can very often do and say, well, this is the third vote. Well, what is the third world? And or this is an emerging market. What is an emerging market?

00;06;21;24 - 00;06;25;25
Sriram Mangudi
You know, and or this is a good leader or badly or at least labels that,

00;06;26;01 - 00;06;39;07
Sriram Mangudi
you know, I think, influence people's identities, but I think we need to be able to peel the onion a lot more and really get to know people a lot better to know, what's really made of and and how we can work together.

00;06;39;10 - 00;06;50;04
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and it's, you know, one of the things we were talking about, and I think it's amazing, let me just kind of pause here and say it's amazing that you,

00;06;50;06 - 00;07;01;14
Craig Andrews
you know, you're able to, you know, you have this Pakistani colleague and, you know, at least in the green room, you were talking about how you guys really team up and work powerfully together.

00;07;01;16 - 00;07;04;27
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes he has,

00;07;05;04 - 00;07;05;14
Sriram Mangudi
so,

00;07;05;19 - 00;07;06;13
Sriram Mangudi
my partner,

00;07;06;13 - 00;07;07;03
Sriram Mangudi
not only,

00;07;07;03 - 00;07;08;23
Sriram Mangudi
helps in advancing the firm.

00;07;08;23 - 00;07;11;02
Sriram Mangudi
He runs a very large supply chain practice.

00;07;11;05 - 00;07;12;13
Sriram Mangudi
But he also does,

00;07;12;13 - 00;07;18;01
Sriram Mangudi
he runs one of the world's largest macronutrient programs, through his foundation for prenatal children,

00;07;18;04 - 00;07;19;22
Sriram Mangudi
moms. And and,

00;07;19;22 - 00;07;21;08
Sriram Mangudi
this affects almost 2 million,

00;07;21;14 - 00;07;23;24
Sriram Mangudi
women in Pakistan.

00;07;23;27 - 00;07;29;23
Sriram Mangudi
And that's being partnered through one of America's largest foundation for gates Foundation that I gave up. So,

00;07;29;26 - 00;07;32;22
Sriram Mangudi
that's that's collaboration for you.

00;07;32;24 - 00;07;41;04
Sriram Mangudi
Well, I just I knew he was actually in China helping the U.S. ambassador, negotiate chip advancement technology,

00;07;41;07 - 00;07;48;04
Sriram Mangudi
between China and the United States. So to me, you know, people from different countries and backgrounds and,

00;07;48;06 - 00;07;54;18
Sriram Mangudi
And that speaks to how we can, you know, embrace cultures, embrace,

00;07;54;18 - 00;08;08;09
Sriram Mangudi
that geography and embrace a location, embrace a company and embrace values that a company has to make it work and add value to the entire workforce. That I think it's what our job allows us to do.

00;08;08;11 - 00;08;14;12
Craig Andrews
Well. And, you know, one of the things I think about, you know, when I look at assuming somebody's company is,

00;08;14;12 - 00;08;15;20
Craig Andrews
attracting,

00;08;15;23 - 00;08;28;26
Craig Andrews
type A, you know, highly competitive talent, when you get enough competitive people in term, there's going to be conflict. And, you know, I, I was marvel at,

00;08;28;26 - 00;08;30;27
Craig Andrews
he and the Chicago Bulls when it was,

00;08;30;27 - 00;08;43;03
Craig Andrews
Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman, and, I mean, I'd love to spend a few hours with Phil Jackson to figure out how he got them to get along.

00;08;43;05 - 00;08;49;29
Sriram Mangudi
But, I don't know if we could ever find out. That has got to be one of the world's greatest mysteries, right?

00;08;50;02 - 00;08;52;24
Sriram Mangudi
So incredible combination. And, of,

00;08;52;24 - 00;08;56;07
Sriram Mangudi
talent and completely different personalities.

00;08;56;10 - 00;08;58;27
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah. That is. That'd be something.

00;08;58;29 - 00;09;17;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah, but wouldn't you say that at some level, every company, you know, that's fundamentally a, a a challenge that every company has is you're bringing together, hopefully you're bringing together top talent, and top talent is often opinionated and maybe has a few rough edges that,

00;09;17;19 - 00;09;19;14
Craig Andrews
that creates conflict.

00;09;19;16 - 00;09;20;07
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah. And I think,

00;09;20;07 - 00;09;21;04
Sriram Mangudi
that's a good point.

00;09;21;04 - 00;09;22;12
Sriram Mangudi
When we work with leadership,

00;09;22;12 - 00;09;24;08
Sriram Mangudi
whether it's a CEO, CFO,

00;09;24;10 - 00;09;27;20
Sriram Mangudi
especially private equity is where patience runs thin pretty quick.

00;09;27;23 - 00;09;47;07
Sriram Mangudi
I think it's it's kind of fascinating to understand and help people not judge the person or their identity, but focus on the the expertise, their understanding of business or a diversity of perspective that they can bring, because that is what helps companies change, you know, on their feet,

00;09;47;07 - 00;09;49;10
Sriram Mangudi
in the face of disruption,

00;09;49;13 - 00;09;57;12
Sriram Mangudi
you know, your competitors eating away with you through new technology that your competitors is eating away at you in a new market that you haven't tapped.

00;09;57;15 - 00;09;58;28
Sriram Mangudi
Your competitor is,

00;09;58;28 - 00;10;11;29
Sriram Mangudi
you know, working away on developing a service model that a B2B business that you haven't dreamt of, it's going to hurt you if you're not going to be able to find out how to kind of get some of those things to work,

00;10;12;02 - 00;10;17;04
Sriram Mangudi
you know, through, very diverse talent that comes from different perspectives, different companies,

00;10;17;07 - 00;10;19;01
Sriram Mangudi
different experiences.

00;10;19;03 - 00;10;23;11
Sriram Mangudi
If you can bring that to the table, you know, you're essentially not

00;10;23;11 - 00;10;26;14
Sriram Mangudi
just stagnating, but you're actually deploying because,

00;10;26;17 - 00;10;31;10
Sriram Mangudi
you're, you're having what I would call the value debt deficit.

00;10;31;13 - 00;10;34;19
Sriram Mangudi
That that can hurt your enterprise.

00;10;34;22 - 00;10;53;28
Craig Andrews
Well, and if we jump back to the Chicago Bulls analogy, imagine the tragedy. It would be to hire all that great talent, every one of those was expensive and bring them together and have them clashing, as opposed to working together and being a multi championship team.

00;10;54;00 - 00;11;06;23
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah. And and it's pretty fascinating in the sense that I don't know if the Chicago Bulls were a runaway success from day one and that Rodman was actually, you know, you know, pumping fists and, you know, doing chest pumps with,

00;11;06;27 - 00;11;14;03
Sriram Mangudi
you know, Scottie Pippen, you know, from the get go, I think they must have gone through a lot of conflict, a lot of,

00;11;14;03 - 00;11;22;17
Sriram Mangudi
locker room fights or arguments and and all this stuff you don't get to see when you see the ring on their finger or the championship in their hands.

00;11;22;17 - 00;11;23;19
Sriram Mangudi
But I think,

00;11;23;26 - 00;11;36;07
Sriram Mangudi
it is those moments. It's what you do. And what is the quality of dialog and space you give, you know, incredibly time to people in, in a room that allows organizations to thrive.

00;11;36;13 - 00;11;41;26
Sriram Mangudi
That to me is is the secret sauce that, that you don't get to see on the court.

00;11;41;28 - 00;11;49;26
Craig Andrews
You know, so when you come into a company, what sort of challenges are you running into?

00;11;49;28 - 00;11;52;18
Sriram Mangudi
You know, I don't pick a challenge. I mean,

00;11;52;18 - 00;11;53;05
Sriram Mangudi
you know, I

00;11;53;05 - 00;11;54;13
Sriram Mangudi
remember my first,

00;11;54;16 - 00;11;58;10
Sriram Mangudi
in our M&A roadshow, I was sent off to,

00;11;58;10 - 00;11;59;27
Sriram Mangudi
remote town and,

00;12;00;02 - 00;12;01;23
Sriram Mangudi
you know, between Illinois and Iowa.

00;12;01;23 - 00;12;08;10
Sriram Mangudi
We had just acquired, the company I worked for. It just acquired a half million dollar business. And,

00;12;08;13 - 00;12;10;02
Sriram Mangudi
my flight was late.

00;12;10;04 - 00;12;15;20
Sriram Mangudi
I was to meet the founder owner and his leadership team of the business that had just been sold,

00;12;15;23 - 00;12;23;16
Sriram Mangudi
been bought by us. And to develop a people, again, process policy roadmap for integration,

00;12;23;19 - 00;12;26;26
Sriram Mangudi
with our company. And,

00;12;26;28 - 00;12;44;13
Sriram Mangudi
and so I walk in there, people have just had lunch and I'm thrown into a room in which everyone sitting on the third row, they've left the first two rows empty in a large conference room, and first question I get from the founder is, why am I there?

00;12;44;15 - 00;12;45;29
Sriram Mangudi
And who sent me?

00;12;46;02 - 00;12;54;04
Sriram Mangudi
And there was Petrov silence across the room. And I also had his successor,

00;12;54;04 - 00;12;57;02
Sriram Mangudi
who was going to take over the business because he'd agreed to,

00;12;57;05 - 00;13;02;15
Sriram Mangudi
stay with the business for about a year. And, and helpful to transition and so on.

00;13;02;18 - 00;13;07;24
Sriram Mangudi
No one said a word. My, I had a colleague with me who driven along with me.

00;13;07;24 - 00;13;15;27
Sriram Mangudi
He was his first. You know, it was barely a year into his job, two years out of college. And before anyone could say anything, I picked up,

00;13;16;00 - 00;13;26;04
Sriram Mangudi
a marker pen and went up to the white board and started to draw out what I thought were going to be the issues that we were going to spend the next couple of hours discussing.

00;13;26;06 - 00;13;39;19
Sriram Mangudi
And I it broke the ice a bit because he said, because I said, well, I'm here to talk about integration. We've got two great companies together, and there are things we have to work through to make this work.

00;13;39;22 - 00;13;46;12
Sriram Mangudi
But he said, well, I don't want to talk about any of that stuff. You were on the board. So I put my pen aside and I asked him what he wanted.

00;13;46;12 - 00;14;07;16
Sriram Mangudi
And and through the course of the next 3 to 4 hours, I was able to win this conference because his biggest fear was not what I had to discuss. It was what were we as a new company, going to allow and ensure it was going to be protected in this company that he built for it? You know, for the last 30 years or so?

00;14;07;18 - 00;14;10;25
Sriram Mangudi
And I remember going out to dinner in the evening,

00;14;10;27 - 00;14;14;18
Sriram Mangudi
it was a town of windmills. I'd never seen windmills as many as I did in,

00;14;14;21 - 00;14;16;25
Sriram Mangudi
in this part of, of,

00;14;16;28 - 00;14;17;28
Sriram Mangudi
the country. But,

00;14;18;01 - 00;14;22;16
Sriram Mangudi
we cleaned the glass of wine and that told me that we'd broken the ice. And,

00;14;22;18 - 00;14;29;28
Sriram Mangudi
you know, from the time when, you know, he was really suspicious about what the agenda was and what did change mean?

00;14;30;00 - 00;14;40;23
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah, we we we integrated that business is one of the more successful businesses. We, we integrated, profitable, brings a lot of money still, but it taught me,

00;14;40;23 - 00;14;42;02
Sriram Mangudi
the value of,

00;14;42;07 - 00;14;45;17
Sriram Mangudi
listening and also, you know, collaborating,

00;14;45;19 - 00;14;52;09
Sriram Mangudi
and co-creating versus, you know, coming with an agenda and, and then trying to shove it down someone's throat.

00;14;52;11 - 00;15;25;27
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And, you know, as you were telling that story, I, I heard you give them two gifts. Two gifts in particular. The first gift was the gift of listening. Yeah. There's just so many, so much tension arises when people don't feel heard. The second gift that I heard you give them was autonomy. You know, the I remember in back during the pandemic, after people had been locked down for about a year, I saw some behavior that I thought was strange, especially down here in Texas.

00;15;25;29 - 00;15;49;19
Craig Andrews
And I realized people just lost their autonomy for too long. And so they were acting out. They're acting out kind of like little kids many ways from old kids and adult bodies. But the two gifts I heard you give them were the gift of blessing and the gift of autonomy, where he could go in and change that agenda and then feel heard on that.

00;15;49;21 - 00;15;53;12
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00;15;53;14 - 00;16;17;13
Craig Andrews
And, you know, I have I would imagine that can be. I would imagine that can be challenging for a lot of leaders because when you know, you have a direction that you want to go, you see the path forward in some ways that must feel like a diversion. It must feel like the long paths to getting to where you one day.

00;16;17;15 - 00;16;22;01
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's,

00;16;22;03 - 00;16;23;05
Sriram Mangudi
I think leadership,

00;16;23;08 - 00;16;25;04
Sriram Mangudi
events and, and I think,

00;16;25;08 - 00;16;27;03
Sriram Mangudi
being able to invest in leadership,

00;16;27;03 - 00;16;39;04
Sriram Mangudi
at different phases of your business, is qualitatively different. You know, what you do at the time, you've recently acquired a business towards a time when the business is growing and there's a lot of transformation needed.

00;16;39;04 - 00;16;40;12
Sriram Mangudi
And systems,

00;16;40;15 - 00;16;44;27
Sriram Mangudi
products, introducing new, platforms and so on.

00;16;45;00 - 00;16;51;27
Sriram Mangudi
I think it's, it's that's the point where the character of leadership truly shows up, and that's where CEOs,

00;16;52;00 - 00;16;54;04
Sriram Mangudi
can play such an incredible role

00;16;54;07 - 00;17;01;18
Sriram Mangudi
in helping a team, you know, integrate, coalesce in a time when it could just appear that, you know,

00;17;01;21 - 00;17;05;08
Sriram Mangudi
can I just wait one more day through so much change?

00;17;05;10 - 00;17;08;04
Sriram Mangudi
And, and that's, I think the fascinating part of working with,

00;17;08;04 - 00;17;10;02
Sriram Mangudi
enterprises that are growing or,

00;17;10;05 - 00;17;30;16
Sriram Mangudi
growing inorganically especially. I mean, it's one thing to be doing and making the same product for over 100 years and not have too much change in your business. But it's another thing all together to bring businesses together from different countries, businesses together from different parts of the country, different businesses that bring B2B and services together.

00;17;30;18 - 00;17;31;07
Sriram Mangudi
The fun of,

00;17;31;07 - 00;17;38;04
Sriram Mangudi
you know, forging a leadership team that lasts through that change and seeing it through, I think,

00;17;38;04 - 00;17;39;08
Sriram Mangudi
you know, is, is,

00;17;39;08 - 00;17;51;06
Sriram Mangudi
is a pretty challenging task. But but again, it comes down to, you know, how much the leadership is willing to invest in that level of governance. I know you mentioned Covid,

00;17;51;08 - 00;17;53;23
Sriram Mangudi
one of my most,

00;17;53;25 - 00;18;06;12
Sriram Mangudi
defining experiences from a leadership standpoint was when on the day that we had a complete shutdown, declared, I believe it was March 23rd, 2020.

00;18;06;14 - 00;18;07;27
Sriram Mangudi
You know, when I was back in India,

00;18;08;00 - 00;18;09;03
Sriram Mangudi
I had to go back,

00;18;09;03 - 00;18;14;11
Sriram Mangudi
because my dad was, ailing. And, you know, I lost him a couple years ago.

00;18;14;13 - 00;18;26;28
Sriram Mangudi
I remember that, you know, we were I was the car for a mid-sized pharmaceutical firm. And my CEO asked me and reminded me, said, I hope you know, the for part of essential services.

00;18;27;01 - 00;18;39;15
Sriram Mangudi
And what it was was not just a question. It was a defining moment that asked me, do you really know what it takes to run a workforce 24 hours, seven across three factories,

00;18;39;18 - 00;18;49;05
Sriram Mangudi
serving the US and European markets, lifesaving medicines in real time across R&D, manufacturing quality,

00;18;49;08 - 00;18;57;26
Sriram Mangudi
I remember never having been thrust into something so out of the open where on a daily basis I had to tee up, you know,

00;18;57;29 - 00;19;00;03
Sriram Mangudi
shift patterns, attendance patterns,

00;19;00;06 - 00;19;04;24
Sriram Mangudi
diagnostic screening patterns, primary contact and secondary contacts from pandemic,

00;19;04;24 - 00;19;07;13
Sriram Mangudi
infections, hospitalizations,

00;19;07;16 - 00;19;11;22
Sriram Mangudi
people stuck in remote locations because they'd been,

00;19;11;25 - 00;19;15;17
Sriram Mangudi
in a quarantine for some period of time and making it all work,

00;19;15;17 - 00;19;15;24
Sriram Mangudi
on

00;19;15;24 - 00;19;29;21
Sriram Mangudi
a weekly, daily, monthly basis through mass vaccination campaigns for full time contract workforces. That taught me the wisdom that you could be the glue when they all about you are losing their heads.

00;19;29;24 - 00;19;41;26
Sriram Mangudi
So I think to me it's how do you bring calm to situation when there's a lot of create, there's a lot of ambiguity and you have to force, you know, some method to the madness.

00;19;42;03 - 00;19;48;04
Sriram Mangudi
Right? Those are the kind of qualities we look for in leaders and help leaders build in.

00;19;48;04 - 00;20;00;03
Craig Andrews
And I think that's a phenomenally good point, you know, and kind of back in the pandemic, you know, there were a lot of people that were freaking out. And,

00;20;00;05 - 00;20;07;26
Craig Andrews
you know, it's it's interesting because I can think of two examples, two people that I know,

00;20;07;29 - 00;20;13;13
Craig Andrews
that were both in the business of putting people on physical stages.

00;20;13;15 - 00;20;40;06
Craig Andrews
One was a keynote speaker that was launching his career as a keynote speaker. He'd been very, very successful in his industry and was very well known, had an enviable Rolodex. And the other was somebody who had a business, equips people to get on stages and speak from stages to make their money. And the the second one, when the pandemic hit, he didn't lose his cool.

00;20;40;08 - 00;21;09;26
Craig Andrews
He basically pulled the team together for three days and said, okay, our number one, our conference, our number one moneymaker for the year in three, 2 or 3 months. It's not happening. What do we do? And within 3 to 3 days, he completely pivoted the company and had the highest revenue year of his company's history, where his his revenue was based on putting people in stages.

00;21;09;29 - 00;21;27;26
Craig Andrews
He made more money during the pandemic than he had any year prior to that, when nobody was going on stages. The other one, the keynote speaker that had the enviable Rolodex, I talked to him a little bit towards the end of the pandemic, and he was sitting there and just moaning, weeping. I think it was like a Friday night or something.

00;21;27;26 - 00;21;54;13
Craig Andrews
We were talking and he was telling me about how horrible life had been because he had launched his career as a keynote speaker and I, and he was just left able to do nothing for like two years. I'm thinking, with your Rolodex, you couldn't find a way to add value, but that's that clarity that you're talking about. When chaos hits.

00;21;54;16 - 00;22;02;25
Craig Andrews
Having a leader who can say, okay, the world's just changed. No worries, we will work through it. Let's let's work the problem.

00;22;02;27 - 00;22;17;00
Sriram Mangudi
Absolutely. And it's it's that but that ability to adapt and be agile in the moment worse says, well, this is the way we used to do it in the past, or this is the only way in which we can solve this problem. I think,

00;22;17;08 - 00;22;28;01
Sriram Mangudi
people are going to be stuck with those kinds of frames of reference, are going to struggle, when like you said, you have your context changing before you're ready, eyes, the ground of which you're standing,

00;22;28;04 - 00;22;29;04
Sriram Mangudi
is no longer the same.

00;22;29;04 - 00;22;29;21
Sriram Mangudi
And,

00;22;29;21 - 00;22;38;02
Sriram Mangudi
the medium with which you communicate is no longer the same. The the way in which people give you or output is changing to I. So I think,

00;22;38;02 - 00;22;39;08
Sriram Mangudi
yeah, those are great.

00;22;39;14 - 00;22;42;07
Sriram Mangudi
You know, all of these experiences, if anything,

00;22;42;10 - 00;22;48;28
Sriram Mangudi
also taught me at the same time, you want my biggest realization? Let's share one more story about Covid, right?

00;22;49;00 - 00;23;08;06
Sriram Mangudi
Biggest learning was you're one of Covid. We're dealing with, you know, who's in hospital, how many people are sick today? How many people didn't get screened yesterday? How many people did not take the vaccination? Your two my chief medical officer call me research for your, I'm going to do one thing. I said, what is I'm going to go after people with comorbidities.

00;23;08;06 - 00;23;25;10
Sriram Mangudi
And I said, what do you mean, comorbidities? And I said, well, anyone that has a high risk predisposition hypertension, sugar, cardiovascular disease, chronic kidney disease, any one of them from our annual medical trips. And we had to do any medical checkups by the FDA norm,

00;23;25;13 - 00;23;33;13
Sriram Mangudi
mandated by law for every single person on compromises. And he said, I'm not going to bother my vaccinations, and we'll get all of that done.

00;23;33;15 - 00;23;53;23
Sriram Mangudi
The most important thing is preventive health. And that was the first time that I realized whether it's solving leadership issues, whether it is solving a workforce productivity, it is knowing what causes things long term in the first place versus dealing with the symptoms that you can, you know, make a big deal of change,

00;23;53;26 - 00;23;57;21
Sriram Mangudi
and drive value that sustainable versus doing a quick fix.

00;23;57;23 - 00;24;05;08
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And that's so powerful. That's so powerful. Well, hey, as we wrap up, let's talk about that. Let's talk about,

00;24;05;11 - 00;24;13;14
Craig Andrews
how do we develop these leaders, how do we develop these leaders that can have walk into chaos and bring order?

00;24;13;16 - 00;24;14;08
Sriram Mangudi
One of the things we,

00;24;14;08 - 00;24;16;12
Sriram Mangudi
focus on, quick is,

00;24;16;12 - 00;24;22;07
Sriram Mangudi
it's very common in private equity, especially the first 6 to 18 months of an acquisition or a deal,

00;24;22;10 - 00;24;29;22
Sriram Mangudi
or an add on platform for, the sponsor to replace the CEO or the CFO or a controller.

00;24;29;25 - 00;24;30;19
Sriram Mangudi
In finance,

00;24;30;27 - 00;24;45;09
Sriram Mangudi
we're peeling away at that a bit because what we're seeing is that that is setting back the portfolio company in private equity, usually at least 6 to 12 months, because once you have a new leader on board, two,

00;24;45;12 - 00;24;54;28
Sriram Mangudi
the expectations have changed because six months into an acquisition table is very different from what they were at the start of the acquisition.

00;24;55;00 - 00;24;56;14
Sriram Mangudi
Two, you have,

00;24;56;20 - 00;25;00;19
Sriram Mangudi
a new matrix of relationships that are very different from, you know,

00;25;00;19 - 00;25;02;26
Sriram Mangudi
being ones that a lot of these leaders I've worked with,

00;25;02;29 - 00;25;08;02
Sriram Mangudi
a lot of the leaders in private equity actually come from publicly listed, you know, companies that,

00;25;08;02 - 00;25;28;22
Sriram Mangudi
because there's such a paucity of leadership talent in the market. And what we've realized is that by working a strong governance model and developing a, a strong business focused, business aligned success profiles for your CFO, for your chief revenue officer or your CEO.

00;25;28;24 - 00;25;42;08
Sriram Mangudi
But most importantly, establishing transparent governance and this and and dialog between the sponsors, the CEO and the C-suite of the portfolio leadership,

00;25;42;11 - 00;25;53;18
Sriram Mangudi
on a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis can help, you know, reduce attrition in private equity, privately owned companies by at least 50%.

00;25;53;21 - 00;25;58;09
Sriram Mangudi
Because, right now it's upwards of 50, 60% in that space.

00;25;58;17 - 00;26;02;01
Sriram Mangudi
Within the first 12 to 18 months of any PE,

00;26;02;04 - 00;26;04;12
Sriram Mangudi
acquisition, of a portfolio company.

00;26;04;12 - 00;26;06;25
Sriram Mangudi
So I think, we have to get away,

00;26;06;25 - 00;26;09;12
Sriram Mangudi
you know, solving problems and helping leaders,

00;26;09;12 - 00;26;19;07
Sriram Mangudi
you know, be more stable and add more value by their presence versus looking to replace leaders. The first sign of pressure.

00;26;19;09 - 00;26;26;11
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's certainly, I mean, going through I mean, I've been through an M&A and,

00;26;26;14 - 00;26;32;28
Craig Andrews
it's, yeah, it's it's challenging. I, I think that lasted,

00;26;32;28 - 00;26;35;02
Craig Andrews
three, maybe three months or so.

00;26;35;05 - 00;26;35;19
Craig Andrews
It,

00;26;35;19 - 00;26;36;29
Craig Andrews
I,

00;26;37;02 - 00;26;40;25
Craig Andrews
I brought my, the, they paid out the first tranche,

00;26;40;25 - 00;26;45;14
Craig Andrews
retention bonuses in advance, hoping that we'd buy something nice.

00;26;45;16 - 00;26;53;08
Craig Andrews
Fortunately, I didn't buy anything nice. And I walked back into my boss's office and slid the check across the table and said, I just can't do this.

00;26;53;11 - 00;27;07;08
Craig Andrews
But that's that's hard because there's a lot of churn during an M&A, you know, not every Bible study and figuring out how to drive the integration and, and motivate those who will stay.

00;27;07;10 - 00;27;29;15
Sriram Mangudi
Yeah. And most integrations usually, especially at the time of the acquisition, the transition stage, spend very little time with the leaders who are being impacted. Everything is on how much money can we extract? Can we grow the business? Three x can we introduce two new products? And no one's really talking to the person that's going to be able to enable all of that?

00;27;29;15 - 00;27;34;20
Sriram Mangudi
No one's talking to the CFO as to what he's thinking about when he goes back home in the night.

00;27;34;23 - 00;27;47;02
Sriram Mangudi
What's he going to tell his kids about how long he's going to be in that job? Is he worried about it? You know, and so on. And very rarely is the role or the head of the HR actually engaged in the discussions.

00;27;47;02 - 00;27;47;26
Sriram Mangudi
Usually,

00;27;47;29 - 00;27;53;19
Sriram Mangudi
HR is is a very late entrant to the whole team. It's usually at a wrap up point,

00;27;53;22 - 00;28;00;15
Sriram Mangudi
from an acquisition standpoint, that a lot of this then is pretty tough to address. So late in the day.

00;28;00;18 - 00;28;06;06
Craig Andrews
Yeah I bet. Well, Shri Ram, this has been really interesting.

00;28;06;09 - 00;28;11;17
Craig Andrews
Yeah, it's very fascinating. And thank you for coming on Layers and Legacies. How can people reach you?

00;28;11;20 - 00;28;11;22
Sriram Mangudi
Oh,

00;28;11;25 - 00;28;12;05
Sriram Mangudi
I'm,

00;28;12;05 - 00;28;13;18
Sriram Mangudi
very active on LinkedIn.

00;28;13;18 - 00;28;31;16
Sriram Mangudi
My, my LinkedIn profile is rerun algorithms. S r I r a m my first name. Last name is Emmy and Judy. Well, my email is rerun. And Gary, my first name. Last meeting at gmail.com. I would love to hear from

00;28;31;16 - 00;28;32;26
Sriram Mangudi
your listeners.

00;28;32;29 - 00;28;36;09
Craig Andrews
All right. Well, thanks again for coming on Layers and Legacies.

00;28;36;11 - 00;28;44;19
Sriram Mangudi
Thank you so much. Great pleasure.

00;28;44;21 - 00;29;06;13
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this

00;29;06;13 - 00;29;08;08
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.

00;29;08;10 - 00;29;31;20
Craig Andrews
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00;29;31;22 - 00;29;39;27
Craig Andrews
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00;29;39;27 - 00;29;50;06
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.