In this episode of Leaders and Legacies, Craig Andrews sits down with Bernie DeSantis, CEO of Insignia Training Partners, to explore how leaders can transform virtual training from a dull obligation into a powerful leadership tool. Drawing on more than 20 years of experience in corporate learning and development, Bernie shares how organizations can deliver high-impact virtual experiences that engage people and drive real results.
Bernie explains why many virtual events fail: leaders treat them like in-person presentations and simply “turn on the camera.” But virtual environments demand a different approach. Leaders must intentionally create interaction, structure engagement, and guide participants through meaningful learning moments.
The conversation also covers the psychology of audience engagement, why attention spans are shrinking, and how simple tools like polling, chat prompts, and structured interaction can dramatically improve participation. Bernie also highlights common mistakes leaders make—such as overwhelming audiences with too much information and failing to provide a clear call to action.
Ultimately, great virtual experiences come down to intentional leadership. When leaders design training and events that prioritize engagement and clarity, they build stronger relationships, deeper trust, and better business outcomes.
Want to learn more about Bernie DeSantis's work? Check out their website at https://insigniatraining.com/.
Connect with Bernie DeSantis on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/badiii/.
Think you'd be a great guest on the show? Apply at https://podcast.allies4me.com/podcast-guest/.
Want to learn more about Craig Andrew's work at allies4me? Check out his website at https://allies4me.com/.
Key Points with Time Stamps
- 00:51 – Meet Bernie DeSantis
Bernie introduces his role as CEO of Insignia Training Partners and his background in corporate learning and development. - 01:36 – Building Leadership Through Networking
Craig and Bernie discuss their involvement in Success Champions Networking and the importance of surrounding yourself with people who elevate you. - 03:40 – The Story Behind Bernie’s Mustache
Bernie shares a personal story about honoring his grandfather, whose leadership legacy inspired him. - 08:10 – The Evolution of Insignia Training Partners
Bernie explains how the company shifted from staff augmentation to virtual learning solutions after COVID. - 10:04 – Why Most Virtual Events Fail
Many experts have great content but deliver poor experiences because they don’t understand the virtual environment. - 13:05 – The Importance of Virtual Presence
Camera placement, lighting, and audio quality dramatically affect audience connection. - 16:16 – How to Engage a Virtual Audience
Use polling, chat prompts, and interaction every few minutes to maintain attention. - 19:05 – Common Mistake: Teaching Too Much
Leaders often overwhelm audiences. Focus on two or three key ideas and deliver them clearly. - 20:01 – Why In-Person Content Doesn’t Translate Directly to Virtual
Virtual environments require intentional engagement strategies. - 23:15 – The 10-Minute Engagement Rule
If you talk longer than ten minutes without interaction, audiences start checking out. - 24:03 – The Future of Virtual Training
Bernie explains why virtual learning will continue to grow due to scalability and cost efficiency. - 25:09 – Where AR and VR Fit in the Future of Learning
Immersive technologies are already used in high-risk training environments but remain expensive to scale.
Transcript
00;00;05;20 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.
00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;13
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.
00;00;51;16 - 00;01;22;08
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Bernie DeSantis. He is the CEO of Insignia Training Partners. Bernie has over 20 years of corporate learning and development. He helps organizations and experts deliver high impact training without the stress. As teams specializes in instruction, design, facilitation, coaching and virtual event planning, supporting everything from one off workshops to large scale learning rollouts.
00;01;22;10 - 00;01;26;06
Bernie DeSantis
Sir Bernie, thanks for having me, Craig.
00;01;26;09 - 00;01;36;12
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, first off, I feel like we got we got to talk about how we met, where we're both in success. Champions, networking. We both are chapter presidents.
00;01;36;14 - 00;01;37;12
Bernie DeSantis
That's right.
00;01;37;14 - 00;01;38;08
Craig Andrews
And,
00;01;38;08 - 00;01;41;07
Craig Andrews
how long have you been in SCN?
00;01;41;09 - 00;01;46;06
Bernie DeSantis
About two and a half years now. I think it was, June, June ish of 2024.
00;01;46;06 - 00;01;46;29
Bernie DeSantis
Originally met
00;01;46;29 - 00;01;52;28
Bernie DeSantis
Mr. Downy Bovine and flipped me on my head around networking and you know, the right way to do it and such.
00;01;53;01 - 00;01;56;25
Bernie DeSantis
It was interesting. First conversation, he said, you know, I think you should you should start a chapter.
00;01;57;01 - 00;01;59;10
Bernie DeSantis
I think he said that to a lot of people now in hindsight. But,
00;01;59;10 - 00;02;00;04
Bernie DeSantis
it was definitely
00;02;00;04 - 00;02;12;28
Bernie DeSantis
I felt like it was a good opportunity to, to learn how to network properly, but also build a group around me of similar types of people. Right. As a small business owner, you don't get the water cooler. Talk with your peers often.
00;02;13;01 - 00;02;17;17
Bernie DeSantis
Yeah, and it was a great opportunity to bring it together for that purpose.
00;02;17;20 - 00;02;20;06
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And for me, one of the
00;02;20;06 - 00;02;42;19
Craig Andrews
moments. So I told Donny no four times actually I told Jessica no once or twice. Someone else. No once and done, you know, once and then but one of the things that hit me was, oh, I get to build a chapter that has the people I want to hang out with anyway, and I've been leaving a group where I felt like I was pulling up the average.
00;02;42;20 - 00;02;46;09
Craig Andrews
I'm like, I need to be in a group where I'm pulling down the average, right?
00;02;46;11 - 00;03;07;17
Bernie DeSantis
Yep. Absolutely. You want to keep people in the room that are going to help to elevate you, bring you up a little bit more. I think that that's the interesting part about RCN, and I don't know what your approach is for, for your group specifically, but, you know, we definitely want to a certain caliber in the room. But on the same token, we want to bring some people along that we can help to to to grow and that are going to help grow us.
00;03;07;20 - 00;03;16;24
Bernie DeSantis
You know, one of the qualifiers for our group is that they should have, as a number, about a thousand connections on LinkedIn, right? So that they have a network to introduce from. And,
00;03;16;24 - 00;03;33;15
Bernie DeSantis
we brought some folks on that that had really small networks on LinkedIn, and they have turned out to be absolute powerhouse networkers. So it's been really cool to see the journey from, you know, having some, some really quality people in the room experience people, really specialized people in the room to some really new folks.
00;03;33;17 - 00;03;37;09
Bernie DeSantis
So I think that we forget as we get further down the line in business,
00;03;37;12 - 00;03;40;24
Bernie DeSantis
what it's like to be that new person. And it's it's good to have that reminder, too.
00;03;40;27 - 00;03;54;15
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, and for those are listening on audio is something you're missing. When when I first met you, I was like, Holy, it's a big mustache. I mean, that's big.
00;03;54;18 - 00;03;56;11
Bernie DeSantis
It's usually the conversation starter.
00;03;56;11 - 00;03;57;09
Bernie DeSantis
Craig
00;03;57;11 - 00;03;59;01
Bernie DeSantis
Let's be honest.
00;03;59;04 - 00;04;01;23
Craig Andrews
So what's the deal with the mustache?
00;04;01;26 - 00;04;05;00
Bernie DeSantis
I mean, honestly, it was completely unintentional.
00;04;05;00 - 00;04;05;18
Bernie DeSantis
Brand.
00;04;05;18 - 00;04;07;23
Bernie DeSantis
Gosh, it's been at least a decade now.
00;04;07;23 - 00;04;22;08
Bernie DeSantis
My cousin and I, we're we're sitting in his basement one day having a couple of Bourbons. And, you know, after the first glass, he said, you know, I think you should grow out your mustache. I had grown it out in my 20s once before I took it off because of, you know, all of the reason stuff gets stuck in it.
00;04;22;08 - 00;04;33;22
Bernie DeSantis
You know, you end up eating it overnight, and then suddenly you nose all the things the maintenance. So after about the third bourbon that night, he suggested it again and I was like, all right, I'll do it. And so I started to grow it out.
00;04;33;25 - 00;04;39;07
Bernie DeSantis
About six years ago, my grandfather passed away. He also had an epic mustache.
00;04;39;09 - 00;04;44;11
Bernie DeSantis
You know, almost want to think like 80s porn star, like. Yeah, you know, you know it, right?
00;04;44;14 - 00;04;57;22
Bernie DeSantis
He passed away cancer, and my family asked me to give his eulogy, so I agreed. Obviously, I was honored to do so. I went up to the front of the room, stood at the podium. It's about halfway through, and I saw a few people walk into the back of the room that I didn't know.
00;04;57;22 - 00;05;07;19
Bernie DeSantis
You know, somebody gets some in their 70s or 80s, like it's the circle gets pretty small. You know who's going to be there. So I finished up and I went to the back of the room, and I introduced myself to them, and
00;05;07;19 - 00;05;16;07
Bernie DeSantis
I asked them how they knew my grandfather, and they shared with me that they had worked with him 40 years prior at the better made potato chip factory here in Detroit.
00;05;16;07 - 00;05;36;09
Bernie DeSantis
He was their boss, and when they found out he had passed, they wanted to come and pay their respects to the best boss that they ever had, their words. And they wanted to see his big, beautiful mustache one more time. And from that moment on, I was like, well, I am not ever taking this thing off. And from then on,
00;05;36;12 - 00;05;38;19
Bernie DeSantis
it's it's kind of become my brand.
00;05;38;19 - 00;05;43;27
Bernie DeSantis
Like, everybody knows me as as Mister Mustache. It's, usually the conversation starter.
00;05;44;00 - 00;05;47;22
Bernie DeSantis
And it's, it's it's been really interesting, but it was never intentional.
00;05;47;25 - 00;06;00;28
Bernie DeSantis
Man, my grandfather was my hero. He, he literally came to every single baseball game I ever played. Even bigger league softball. Well, after college, he would show up and just watch me play.
00;06;01;00 - 00;06;04;18
Bernie DeSantis
And I love that guy. So, yeah, it's kind of an ode to him.
00;06;04;21 - 00;06;10;20
Craig Andrews
That's cool. It's funny, I, you know, I have the negative space in mustache.
00;06;10;23 - 00;06;14;16
Craig Andrews
And I had never had a goatee,
00;06;14;19 - 00;06;26;25
Craig Andrews
until, you know, as a result of my time in the hospital, like the goober up my mouth. And when I came out, I had plastic surgery done about a year later, and I realized I would never again be able to grow a proper mustache.
00;06;26;29 - 00;06;46;19
Craig Andrews
I moved around for like, three weeks, and I was like, quit moping around, turn it into something. And so I grow goatee, got new portraits made. And so you're part of your brand. Is this big bushy mustache? Yeah. Mine is. Hey, there's a big chunk of hair missing right?
00;06;46;21 - 00;06;59;16
Bernie DeSantis
Yeah. You just got to embrace it, though. That's that's the thing. Like, there are a lot of guys. It's super funny. Craig. There are a lot of guys out there that that compliment me on the mustache, and they're like, I just can't grow it. I'm like, no, you could grow it. You have to put the time in. You have to put the effort in.
00;06;59;16 - 00;07;06;10
Bernie DeSantis
You have to get through the uncomfortable phase and just own it. Whatever it ends up being. You just have to own it.
00;07;06;12 - 00;07;15;17
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And see, I don't get compliments. Everybody's looking at. They don't want to ask. And if I bring it up, they're like, oh, I never noticed. I'm like, you're lying.
00;07;15;17 - 00;07;19;07
Bernie DeSantis
Shut up.
00;07;19;09 - 00;07;25;01
Craig Andrews
Yeah. No, I don't get compliments. Hey, that's a really cool bald spot, right?
00;07;25;03 - 00;07;25;24
Bernie DeSantis
But but it.
00;07;26;00 - 00;07;26;12
Craig Andrews
It.
00;07;26;12 - 00;07;35;13
Bernie DeSantis
Is it does stand out. Like you should talk about it more honestly, Craig, because it does stand out. It is a different look than most people have with facial hair.
00;07;35;16 - 00;07;37;02
Craig Andrews
Yeah. I think, well,
00;07;37;02 - 00;07;39;27
Craig Andrews
so I did a ten minute teach in my chapter today. Yeah.
00;07;40;04 - 00;07;46;04
Craig Andrews
On the importance of exposing a weakness, vulnerability or flaw and how it proves trust and authority.
00;07;46;07 - 00;07;54;20
Craig Andrews
So that's now in the slide deck and including a I generated picture of me as a pirate with a piece base.
00;07;54;23 - 00;07;56;09
Bernie DeSantis
Yeah.
00;07;56;11 - 00;07;59;15
Bernie DeSantis
Make sure you send that to Camille. She will really appreciate that.
00;07;59;17 - 00;08;04;01
Craig Andrews
Oh, yeah, I do. I need to say thanks for the reminder. Yeah, I'll shoot that over to it. Yeah.
00;08;04;07 - 00;08;07;07
Bernie DeSantis
For sure. She will definitely appreciate that.
00;08;07;10 - 00;08;10;12
Craig Andrews
Well, hey, let's. So let's talk about,
00;08;10;14 - 00;08;12;12
Craig Andrews
let's talk about what you do.
00;08;12;15 - 00;08;14;29
Craig Andrews
So you do online training,
00;08;14;29 - 00;08;18;11
Craig Andrews
corporate, a laid out what we do.
00;08;18;15 - 00;08;19;22
Bernie DeSantis
Glad, glad, glad to share.
00;08;19;22 - 00;08;26;04
Bernie DeSantis
So, you know, kind of the story I, I bought this company four years ago, January 1st, 2022.
00;08;26;07 - 00;08;32;07
Bernie DeSantis
After working within the business for about five years. Insignia Training Partners, founded in 2007.
00;08;32;10 - 00;08;43;24
Bernie DeSantis
We were a staff augmentation company up until Covid hit, you know, so we were sending out facilitators, coaches, instructional designers to help larger organizations build out their training programs, whatever that might look like.
00;08;43;24 - 00;09;01;28
Bernie DeSantis
Sometimes it was in-person, sometimes it was virtual. A lot of e-learning. Well, once Covid hit, no more in-person training was happening. Everybody had to switch to virtual. And because of our prior relationships, we were already working with organizations like Johnson and Johnson and Y. Some some big companies.
00;09;02;01 - 00;09;11;26
Bernie DeSantis
And so they came to us and asked if we could help them with their, their virtual delivery because they were switching from almost 100% in-person in some cases to now 100% virtual.
00;09;11;28 - 00;09;13;15
Bernie DeSantis
And so they struggled with it.
00;09;13;18 - 00;09;16;13
Bernie DeSantis
And we were really fortunate to, to be working with them at the time,
00;09;16;13 - 00;09;23;12
Bernie DeSantis
pre-COVID, I had 50 virtual producers supporting training programs internally at those organizations.
00;09;23;15 - 00;09;32;27
Bernie DeSantis
Covid ended and, you know, some of the volume went down a little bit, but I recognized it was a huge opportunity because Covid made this space mainstream.
00;09;32;27 - 00;10;04;16
Bernie DeSantis
Everybody's familiar with doing virtual now or they think they are. Yeah, it's become accepted. Right. You can quite literally become a global organization overnight through zoom. So I started to look at what we were doing, you know, for those learning events with JNJ and E y and some of these bigger organizations. And then I looked at my network and LinkedIn, and I saw all of these people doing masterclasses and webinars and workshops and roundtables and whatever you're going to call them, sort of going to some events like, Holy, these are dumpster fires.
00;10;04;19 - 00;10;38;07
Bernie DeSantis
Respectfully, like, I'm glad you're trying. You are subject matter expert, really good content. A lot of cases, they just didn't understand what they were doing in this space. So we started to to support what kind of business development type events as opposed to pure learning internal, you know, audiences. Now, we were talking about public audiences, right? People signing up for these masterclasses and workshops, giving them a great, engaging experience so that the people who are delivering it oftentimes that coach that consultant, they're able to have a conversation after the event, right.
00;10;38;11 - 00;10;56;07
Bernie DeSantis
It leads to a stronger brand. It leads to familiarity. It's almost like sampling at a bakery, right? Like you walk into the bakery, you have a cookie because it's there and it's amazing. And then you try and you're like, next thing you know, you're walking out with 12 cookies. It's the same type of thing when you're talking about a virtual event online.
00;10;56;07 - 00;11;13;26
Bernie DeSantis
People are coming to experience you to learn something from you. You build a little bit of trust, and now you have an opportunity where, if it makes sense, maybe they're gonna buy your services. But if you give them a really terrible experience, I mean, if they're cookies, not good, then they're probably not going to buy the thing from you, whatever it might be.
00;11;13;28 - 00;11;21;19
Bernie DeSantis
And it's the same thing when you're talking about learning, right? You have to keep people engaged and in what they're learning.
00;11;21;21 - 00;11;25;18
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And I imagine,
00;11;25;21 - 00;11;38;05
Craig Andrews
Not quite the same, but this might be an analogy. I, I, I ran a stop sign one day, and I had choice to pay the ticket and get points or go to a,
00;11;38;05 - 00;11;45;00
Craig Andrews
defensive driving course. Yeah. And they had one. I went, I showed up and,
00;11;45;00 - 00;11;53;03
Craig Andrews
I thought, okay, this is going to be boring. And this is like, you know, the tension back in, you know, high school and showing up Saturday morning for detention and.
00;11;53;03 - 00;11;54;25
Craig Andrews
Yep.
00;11;54;27 - 00;12;08;11
Craig Andrews
A couple things that really stood out to me. One, it was fun and they were hilarious, too. It was really valuable. I learned some things that day. And three, I got a hamburger as a,
00;12;08;18 - 00;12;13;14
Craig Andrews
as a part of my feeds. It was a this it was a real good hamburger. That,
00;12;13;14 - 00;12;19;24
Craig Andrews
Texas land and cattle, which is, you know, steakhouse here in Austin.
00;12;19;26 - 00;12;22;02
Craig Andrews
And I think it was that and,
00;12;22;05 - 00;12;33;03
Craig Andrews
but, yeah, I mean, I look back at that experience and I was like, these guys just completely nailed it. They took what would normally be painful and I would imagine for employees,
00;12;33;03 - 00;12;40;19
Craig Andrews
geez, I got to do that training again. Yep. And to have it turn around and say not only was it fun but I learned something.
00;12;40;21 - 00;13;05;15
Bernie DeSantis
Yeah, that's exactly it. You know. And I think unfortunately a lot of people when they think of virtual it is it is a secondary thought still to them. They don't really think of it as, as truly the stage that it can be. And understanding that you can create a very impactful experience here if you understand the landscape, if you understand the communication, if you understand the tools.
00;13;05;18 - 00;13;14;21
Bernie DeSantis
Honestly, one of the biggest things that I have to coach a lot of my, my clients on is, is just how they show up on camera. Where do they put the camera? Where does the microphone go? Where is the lighting?
00;13;14;24 - 00;13;17;17
Bernie DeSantis
That part gets gets overlooked or under
00;13;17;19 - 00;13;27;00
Bernie DeSantis
under emphasized. I think oftentimes they think if they just turn on the camera for good, that's that that's not the case with it.
00;13;27;03 - 00;13;28;06
Craig Andrews
Yeah, I know, and that's,
00;13;28;06 - 00;13;30;26
Craig Andrews
you know, when Covid first hit,
00;13;30;29 - 00;13;32;26
Craig Andrews
I immediately started doing,
00;13;32;29 - 00;13;39;16
Craig Andrews
this is back when challenges were the big thing. Yeah, well, the five day challenge. Oh, yeah. So they are they still.
00;13;39;18 - 00;13;43;06
Bernie DeSantis
Oh, yeah, I, I've actually I got one planned for next week. In fact, we're still doing them. Yeah.
00;13;43;06 - 00;14;05;11
Craig Andrews
Absolutely. That's awesome. Yeah. Well I had a, I had like a five day trust accelerator or three day trust accelerator challenge. And it was like okay, now you have to be able to sell on zoom. And most of you have never done that. Yeah. And so it was
00;14;05;11 - 00;14;11;26
Craig Andrews
but we had a shopping list, you know, as part of the challenge, we were like, okay, here's and here's the link in Amazon.
00;14;11;26 - 00;14;14;18
Craig Andrews
Where do you buy this, this and this. Yeah.
00;14;14;21 - 00;14;26;15
Craig Andrews
And you know, we dealt with the things like lighting and what have you. And it's I mean, there's just small, small tweaks. I, I have a co-working space I work from sometimes and I,
00;14;26;18 - 00;14;33;29
Craig Andrews
sometimes I take light studio lights there that, you know, just the small four by six panels.
00;14;34;01 - 00;14;45;24
Craig Andrews
And the lights kept reflecting off of my glasses. But just get them up like I have lights on me right now and you know, just get up a little bit higher and you lose the reflection. Just small little things make a huge huge difference.
00;14;45;24 - 00;14;47;16
Bernie DeSantis
Yeah absolutely. And honestly
00;14;47;16 - 00;14;50;09
Bernie DeSantis
a lot of it is, is not that they don't care. It's the
00;14;50;09 - 00;15;04;05
Bernie DeSantis
it's unconscious incompetence. Right. They just they don't even know that they should be paying attention to those things or that it matters. Right. Like putting your your lights at a 45 degree angle. Right? If you have them on a side of you or having them slightly raised at an angle, it eliminates that.
00;15;04;05 - 00;15;08;08
Bernie DeSantis
But if it's not something that you're consciously looking for, you don't really even think about it.
00;15;08;10 - 00;15;13;16
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah, I'm realize you could do 45 on the sides.
00;15;13;18 - 00;15;33;00
Craig Andrews
That's good. That's a nugget. That's what I'm with. That's where my technology is. Yeah. And you know what. Just quick side note. People ask me why I do podcasting like oh you're kidding. I get to talk to people who are experts in other fields, and I learn things that I'd never learn otherwise.
00;15;33;03 - 00;15;56;06
Bernie DeSantis
It's the same reason I love doing virtual events. Because every time I work with someone who's a subject matter expert in a thing, I help them to build out their their their program, their content. We figure out who their ICP is. We talk about their marketing, their messaging, delivering the content in the event. How do we make it engaging the polling questions that, yeah, all of the things I get a masterclass in what they do every single time I take on a new client or how build an event.
00;15;56;06 - 00;15;58;01
Bernie DeSantis
It is so much fun.
00;15;58;04 - 00;16;00;20
Craig Andrews
Yeah.
00;16;00;22 - 00;16;16;15
Craig Andrews
So how do you connect with people? Yeah. So if I'm standing behind the camera. And I have people out there in the ether, how do I make connection with those people. How do I make them feel like they're in the room with me.
00;16;16;18 - 00;16;32;10
Bernie DeSantis
You know we talked a little bit about it already and which is the virtual presence and thinking about the technology that you're using. Right. Having a decent camera showing up. Well definitely want to prioritize your audio. If your audio sounds like crap, people will not connect with you. They will tune out inevitably.
00;16;32;13 - 00;16;35;29
Bernie DeSantis
But a lot of it is in how you use the tool.
00;16;35;29 - 00;16;58;06
Bernie DeSantis
Oftentimes. Well, this day and age, most people have a very short attention span, right? TikTok and whatnot has kind of ruined us. So when we show up to a live virtual event here, it's oftentimes just about timing in our delivery. When do you leverage a polling question right? Get people to come back to the platform, click on the button, tune in to what you're saying for a second.
00;16;58;09 - 00;17;22;23
Bernie DeSantis
Drop a chat prompt every 3 to 5 minutes. Have them respond to something. Maybe it's a 1 or 2 from a multiple choice type question. Simple things like that. It's not rocket science, but keeping people engaged roughly every 5 to 10 minutes. That's really what connects people. It is bringing them back and engaging them, not only auditory, not only visually, but kinesthetic as well.
00;17;22;23 - 00;17;33;04
Bernie DeSantis
That's how people learn. And if you apply those same type of principles here in virtual, it's again, it's not rocket science. It's actually very simple. Not always easy, but it's very simple.
00;17;33;06 - 00;17;41;09
Craig Andrews
Well, and something you do in your chapter that I haven't copied in my chapter, but copied in our virtual happy hours, is you did a,
00;17;41;17 - 00;17;44;29
Craig Andrews
like a little poll a The Truth from fiction poll at the end. Yep.
00;17;45;02 - 00;17;46;15
Bernie DeSantis
Yep. Factor crap.
00;17;46;17 - 00;17;49;02
Bernie DeSantis
Yeah.
00;17;49;05 - 00;17;52;20
Craig Andrews
I copied that. I need to get into our meetings.
00;17;52;23 - 00;18;00;23
Craig Andrews
But when we do a virtual happy hour, we have a truth from fiction quiz. So we do a Valentine's themed happy hour and,
00;18;00;26 - 00;18;05;09
Craig Andrews
three stories about extraordinary things that happened on Valentine's Day.
00;18;05;12 - 00;18;09;04
Craig Andrews
Two or false ones? True. Yeah. People love those.
00;18;09;09 - 00;18;24;26
Bernie DeSantis
Yep, yep. They, absolutely love them in my chapter. Like, people literally stay on and wait till the end, even if they have other things to do. Sometimes you're like, I got to stay here for the for the factor craft. I gotta see if I can get it. It's great.
00;18;24;29 - 00;18;27;24
Craig Andrews
Well, and let me just throw this out. You know, for those listening,
00;18;27;27 - 00;18;38;22
Craig Andrews
I let ChatGPT make my quizzes. I don't go off and do the research, and I just tell ChatGPT what I'm trying to do, and it comes back and it gives me the quizzes and they're amazing.
00;18;38;24 - 00;18;59;01
Bernie DeSantis
Yep. Same. Absolutely. It's it's a really simple and easy way to engage with your audience. And you don't have to do a whole lot of thinking. If you already have content, you plug it right into ChatGPT and say, give me five polling questions around this and it will spit them right out for you. Plug and play super user.
00;18;59;04 - 00;19;05;19
Craig Andrews
So what are some when people are doing these things? What are some things they typically get wrong?
00;19;05;21 - 00;19;07;14
Bernie DeSantis
You know, I think a lot of people,
00;19;07;14 - 00;19;28;11
Bernie DeSantis
tend to overshare. They try to to bring too much value and they end up just spitting through a fire hose. And it is too much. You have to to stick to just a couple of ideas. 40 minutes is not a lot of time. And if you're trying to get through 5 or 7 different objectives, you're probably not going to land any of them.
00;19;28;14 - 00;19;41;07
Bernie DeSantis
So you really want to keep your message very succinct. What am I going to talk about? 2 to 3 points at the most. And then you should have some type of a call to action at the end. If people don't know what they should do next. If you don't tell them, they're not going to take the next step.
00;19;41;09 - 00;19;54;26
Bernie DeSantis
So keep it very succinct, very direct, and have a call to action, a clear call to action. And at the end, whether it's to sell something, schedule an appointment, whatever that is, have a next step. Because if you don't tell people what the next step is, they won't take one.
00;19;54;28 - 00;19;57;25
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
00;19;57;28 - 00;20;01;13
Craig Andrews
What's another common mistake that people make?
00;20;01;15 - 00;20;11;27
Bernie DeSantis
I think another common mistake people make is that they can't is that they can take in-person content, just turn on the camera and talk at it, and that is going to bring value to people.
00;20;12;00 - 00;20;28;03
Bernie DeSantis
Again, this is this is a different stage and you have to understand how to use it. So if you think that you are just going to talk at the camera and talk at your audience for 45 minutes to an hour, and it's going to give you the result that you want, you're probably fooling yourself.
00;20;28;06 - 00;20;42;03
Bernie DeSantis
The stage on the stage thing is, you know, pretty much dead, except for college campuses. At this point, people crave engagement. They want you to be intentional about how you are talking to them and about how you are teaching them. They don't want to just be talked at anymore.
00;20;42;05 - 00;20;48;13
Craig Andrews
You know, I know some might want to podcast and my wife was telling me about it and said, oh,
00;20;48;13 - 00;21;01;25
Craig Andrews
who's he bringing on his guests? She said, nobody. He's just talking like, oh, we'll see how that goes. I haven't heard much about the podcast lately.
00;21;01;28 - 00;21;13;05
Bernie DeSantis
Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's can be such an echo chamber trying to do it on your own. Like you have to have have to have some other thoughts.
00;21;13;08 - 00;21;19;16
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And there are people, I mean, certainly on YouTube. Now you're introducing another medium when you're on YouTube,
00;21;19;19 - 00;21;35;01
Craig Andrews
or another dimension, but, you know, I see people doing it, but the people who do it well are few. And there's one YouTuber that I particularly like, he still has guests on.
00;21;35;07 - 00;21;35;21
Craig Andrews
Actually,
00;21;35;21 - 00;21;44;25
Craig Andrews
as I think through a lot of you YouTubers and I mean, number one, number one podcast is Joe Rogan has guests.
00;21;44;27 - 00;21;47;04
Craig Andrews
Yep. Talks to him for three hours.
00;21;47;07 - 00;21;54;07
Craig Andrews
That's my counterpoint to the whole attention span. I was like, I don't know, there's some maybe there's something else going on.
00;21;54;10 - 00;22;13;02
Bernie DeSantis
There are certain people that apps really can capture an audience for a long period of time, but you're right, it's very few and far between that do it very well. You know, somebody that comes to mind for me is somebody like Tony Robbins. Like he runs multi-day, full day, high energy type events. Like people will absolutely tune in to him all day long.
00;22;13;05 - 00;22;17;03
Bernie DeSantis
But that is not something a skill everybody has.
00;22;17;05 - 00;22;33;22
Craig Andrews
Well, as I'm trying to think through YouTubers, I know that can do where they are. The show and they can consistently run that. So 20 minutes or more, I can think of one, at least one in my sphere. And that's,
00;22;33;25 - 00;22;35;28
Craig Andrews
guy named Michael Francis. He,
00;22;35;28 - 00;22;39;04
Craig Andrews
he used to be a capo in the Colombo crime family.
00;22;39;07 - 00;22;46;14
Craig Andrews
Oh, he was there when Joe Colombo got shot. Yeah. Okay. The dude's just the normally interesting. Got got some.
00;22;46;14 - 00;22;49;00
Bernie DeSantis
Stories to tell.
00;22;49;03 - 00;22;51;18
Craig Andrews
And he's good. He's good. But,
00;22;51;21 - 00;23;03;12
Craig Andrews
when I think about the other ones, it's. But it's that interaction, you know, just, you know, to I think the point you were making is if you're gonna just look at the camera and start talking,
00;23;03;15 - 00;23;07;22
Craig Andrews
you better be careful. How long now? Sometimes that is appropriate.
00;23;07;28 - 00;23;10;11
Craig Andrews
How do you have guidelines?
00;23;10;11 - 00;23;15;08
Craig Andrews
For how long somebody should talk or how to make sure that that works out?
00;23;15;10 - 00;23;32;01
Bernie DeSantis
Yeah, I mean, I, I would say you definitely don't want a monologue for more than ten minutes if you're, if you have a live audience with you. Right. If you, they're in a virtual, you don't want to go more than ten minutes where you're just straight talking at them and you don't have something to interrupt the pattern because there's there's just let's be honest, Craig, there's too many distractions here.
00;23;32;02 - 00;23;49;10
Bernie DeSantis
In a home environment, very few people work from just one monitor anymore. It's so easy for me to be in my email and in your zoom at the same time. Yeah. So you've just again, you got to keep people engaged throughout the course. If you're if you're talking for more than ten minutes at a time, people start to check out pretty quickly.
00;23;49;12 - 00;23;53;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah.
00;23;53;22 - 00;23;55;13
Craig Andrews
And it's going to be interesting.
00;23;55;16 - 00;24;01;13
Craig Andrews
I mean, Covid flipped the switch. It created created this world. You know,
00;24;01;16 - 00;24;03;18
Craig Andrews
it's going to be interesting to see where it goes.
00;24;03;21 - 00;24;21;02
Bernie DeSantis
I agree, I honestly, I there's not a CFO out there that will argue the cost effectiveness of delivering training virtually, as opposed to bringing people to a single location, travel costs and all of the things I believe that as we continue to become a more and more remote society,
00;24;21;05 - 00;24;28;06
Bernie DeSantis
you're going to see more and more virtual type of experiences and meetings and training programs because it's just more more effective.
00;24;28;06 - 00;24;29;27
Bernie DeSantis
It's more cost efficient.
00;24;30;00 - 00;24;47;23
Bernie DeSantis
You will never beat an in-person experience. They're always going to be better and more impactful, but you can't do it all the time. And this makes it more scalable. This makes you able to be a global delivery as opposed to a local geography.
00;24;47;25 - 00;25;00;17
Craig Andrews
Yeah, I'll tell you what. Let's wrap up with this because I agree with you. I agree with you. But there's there's a question in my head, what about,
00;25;00;19 - 00;25;08;29
Craig Andrews
AI or VR or you know, like the, you know, the meta glasses if they're still selling those and. Oh, yeah.
00;25;09;02 - 00;25;17;27
Craig Andrews
I, I think I would start with people have been trying some version of that going all the way back to Google Glasses, you know, ten years ago.
00;25;18;00 - 00;25;30;10
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And for some reason they don't they don't hit, they don't work. I don't understand it. But do you see the day coming where maybe training or some type of virtual conference begins with putting on,
00;25;30;12 - 00;25;36;22
Bernie DeSantis
I'll be honest with you, that that time is now. It is absolutely happening. There are a lot of organizations,
00;25;36;22 - 00;25;42;03
Bernie DeSantis
in, in the L.A. space, that only leverage AR and VR training programs.
00;25;42;06 - 00;25;49;24
Bernie DeSantis
They are especially effective when you are talking about what I refer to as blood on the ground scenarios, right? Where it's high stakes, high risk.
00;25;50;00 - 00;25;58;08
Bernie DeSantis
There is risk of people being injured. That virtual space allows you to simulate the same environment without the actual risk.
00;25;58;11 - 00;26;14;23
Bernie DeSantis
So I see it being highly effective in certain use cases. Oftentimes the biggest challenge is just the cost barrier to entry, where you got to buy a hundred thousand of these things for your workforce. Well, once you start buying these things en masse, they become really expensive.
00;26;14;23 - 00;26;18;25
Bernie DeSantis
You can invest millions and millions of dollars and just this hardware.
00;26;18;28 - 00;26;37;23
Bernie DeSantis
So it's it's hard to do at scale. Right. But for specialized use cases. Absolutely. It's here. It's now people are doing it. It's really immersive, really, really cool stuff. But for general population, it really hasn't picked on. It just it hasn't caught on because it is a higher cost to entry.
00;26;37;25 - 00;26;42;07
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Interesting. Well Bernie, this has been really good.
00;26;42;11 - 00;26;47;06
Craig Andrews
I, I always enjoy hanging out with you. I always learn something when I hang out with you. Oh,
00;26;47;13 - 00;26;49;19
Craig Andrews
how can folks reach you?
00;26;49;21 - 00;26;51;20
Bernie DeSantis
Best way to reach me, honestly, is on LinkedIn.
00;26;51;20 - 00;26;54;01
Bernie DeSantis
My DMs are always open. Connect with me there.
00;26;54;08 - 00;26;57;08
Bernie DeSantis
Or you can find us at at City of training.com.
00;26;57;10 - 00;26;59;17
Craig Andrews
All right. Well, thanks for coming on Layers and Legacies.
00;26;59;23 - 00;27;08;28
Bernie DeSantis
Thank you Craig. Appreciate you having me, brother.
00;27;09;00 - 00;27;30;20
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Ally's for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this
00;27;30;20 - 00;27;32;15
Craig Andrews
episode on social media.
00;27;32;17 - 00;27;55;27
Craig Andrews
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00;27;55;29 - 00;28;04;06
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up. Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me.
00;28;04;06 - 00;28;14;15
Craig Andrews
It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Ally's for me.com. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
