AI has made search feel new again, but Stephan Bajaio warns leaders not to mistake new acronyms for a new strategy. Whether people call it SEO, AEO, GEO, or AI search, the real question is still whether your market can find useful, credible answers from you and about you. Chasing a mention inside ChatGPT or Claude is a shaky substitute for understanding what your customers need and what the web is already saying.

In this episode of Leaders & Legacies, Craig talks with Stephan, CEO and Co-Founder of VibeLogic, about why companies often overlook the intelligence already sitting inside the business. Sales calls, support tickets, chat logs, legal review threads, and customer questions can reveal the exact problems buyers care about. What looks like a bullet point on your website may be someone else’s entire reason to buy.

Stephan also separates AI leverage from AI fantasy. AI can help leaders change formats, test ideas, and turn long content into tools people will actually use. But it is not push-button expertise. Like Craig’s example of putting a non-driver in an F1 car, AI may help you move faster, but the judgment still comes from the person steering.

The conversation closes with a look at where search is heading: toward agents, proactive recommendations, and systems that connect dots before a user types a query. That future still depends on what can be learned, verified, and trusted. For leaders, the work is not to panic over AI rankings. It is to make sure the right signals exist across the places where customers, platforms, and intelligent systems form opinions.

Want to learn more about Stephan Bajaio’s work? Check out VibeLogic at https://www.vibelogic.com/.

Connect with Stephan Bajaio on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanbajaio/.

Think you’d be a great guest on the show? Apply at https://podcast.allies4me.com/podcast-guest/.

Want to learn more about Craig Andrews’ work at allies4me? Check out his website at https://allies4me.com/.

Key Points & Timestamps

• 00:05:51 - Stephan explains how leaders with different thinking styles often see opportunity in the empty spaces of rigid corporate systems.
• 00:06:01 - Stephan shares the hat, haircut, or tattoo framework for judging how much weight a business decision really deserves.
• 00:11:43 - Stephan warns that companies often turn a buyer’s core problem into a small website bullet point instead of framing it clearly.
• 00:15:39 - Stephan explains why AI rankings are not search rankings and why treating AI search like old SEO can mislead leaders.
• 00:16:35 - Stephan describes web presence intelligence as a cross-channel view of where audiences, content, and credible answers already intersect.
• 00:18:24 - Craig and Stephan discuss why AI can amplify expertise but cannot replace the judgment of someone who knows how to steer.
• 00:27:13 - Stephan looks ahead to agents and proactive systems that connect signals before a customer types a traditional search query.

Transcript

[00:00:00 - 00:00:18]
Today, I want to welcome Stephan Bajaio.

[00:00:18 - 00:00:22]
He is the CEO and co-founder of Vibe Logic.

[00:00:22 - 00:00:27]
Stephan has spent his career helping companies understand how they're found from enterprise

[00:00:27 - 00:00:36]
SEO and content strategy to the new world of AI answers, audience intelligence and digital

[00:00:36 - 00:00:37]
visibility.

[00:00:37 - 00:00:41]
I'm really interested in that because I have a lot of questions.

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The world is changing.

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I know I'm hearing misinformation in that spot and that space, I love these type of conversations

[00:00:47 - 00:00:49]
bring that clarity.

[00:00:49 - 00:00:51]
Stephan, welcome.

[00:00:51 - 00:00:52]
Hey.

[00:00:52 - 00:00:53]
Thank you so much.

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I said it again, hang on, let me back up and apologize to the listeners.

[00:00:57 - 00:01:03]
He told me I had written down my, it's not fun, it's not fun, but you had, honestly,

[00:01:03 - 00:01:06]
you had Bajaio, which is like the harder of the two.

[00:01:06 - 00:01:12]
So like, I didn't give you the precursor for people my age, people my age, I have to explain.

[00:01:12 - 00:01:16]
It's the cool version of Erkel, right, and having been a little nerdling.

[00:01:16 - 00:01:18]
It's very appropriate for me to say that.

[00:01:18 - 00:01:22]
I don't know if you remember, fam, what was it?

[00:01:22 - 00:01:23]
Oh, God.

[00:01:23 - 00:01:24]
What was it?

[00:01:24 - 00:01:27]
Oh, I don't remember the Thursday night show with Erkel.

[00:01:27 - 00:01:28]
It wasn't called Erkel.

[00:01:28 - 00:01:30]
It was called family matters and family matters.

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He jumped into a time machine.

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Erkel did and he turned into the cool version of him named Stefan Erkel.

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So I like to say the cooler version of Stephen is Stefan.

[00:01:42 - 00:01:43]
So nice to meet you all.

[00:01:43 - 00:01:44]
Thanks for having me, Craig.

[00:01:44 - 00:01:49]
Well, we were talking about ADD and the green room and heck, I can't even make it 10 minutes

[00:01:49 - 00:01:52]
from getting your name pronounced right to screwing it up royally.

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Dude, you got a lot going on.

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There's no question.

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I don't think any of us don't have information overload these days.

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So in all fairness, I'm absolute crap with names.

[00:02:02 - 00:02:05]
I don't blame you at all.

[00:02:05 - 00:02:12]
Well, let's talk about ADD a little bit because, you know, one of the things that realized

[00:02:12 - 00:02:17]
a lot of business owners, a lot of people that end up going in their own business go

[00:02:17 - 00:02:20]
because they have some type of learning disability.

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We talked about when 800 got junk.

[00:02:24 - 00:02:25]
He's dyslexic.

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His dad was an attorney, one of them to become an attorney too.

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And he dropped out of school, dropped out of college in like a couple of days and went

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off and spent 1,600 bucks to buy a pickup and started hauling junk.

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Dad was proud.

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And well, who got the last laugh there?

[00:02:43 - 00:02:51]
So, you know, I definitely, I get that feeling, I've been, it's what's interesting, I've found

[00:02:51 - 00:02:55]
with a lot of people that have ADD like myself and learning disabilities of which I have

[00:02:55 - 00:03:02]
both, you know, slow reading, slow writing, I've never been the fastest, seemingly anything.

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What's interesting there is I also equate that to a lot of just like thinking differently.

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And so when you're set in a system, which makes sense, you're given a system whether

[00:03:13 - 00:03:18]
that's educational or corporate, right?

[00:03:18 - 00:03:23]
You're probably the kid whose report card in second grade said Stefan has incredible

[00:03:23 - 00:03:28]
insights and intelligence, but is unable to follow direction, right?

[00:03:28 - 00:03:34]
That's probably like the note that came back to my parents, you know, from my second grade

[00:03:34 - 00:03:35]
teacher.

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And that's kind of true for, I think, structured environments are difficult for people who

[00:03:41 - 00:03:43]
have those issues, right?

[00:03:43 - 00:03:51]
And so they don't thrive as well because they're creativity either or they're, their desire,

[00:03:51 - 00:03:54]
it's not, it's not necessarily a question of passion, right?

[00:03:54 - 00:03:58]
It's a question of, if you're told you have to follow a particular path and do it a certain

[00:03:58 - 00:04:06]
way, and all you can see are the, let's say the blank spots, the empty space as opportunity

[00:04:06 - 00:04:10]
becomes extremely frustrating yelling into the void saying, why aren't we doing this?

[00:04:10 - 00:04:16]
Right? And I remember doing that at Yahoo, I remember doing that at Time Inc, I remember

[00:04:16 - 00:04:21]
doing that a lot of corporations that I worked at where it was just like, this feels obvious,

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I don't understand why we can't do it.

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And the corporate structure really wasn't made for that.

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That's why I ended up in startup world, really, because, you know, your impact wasn't, no

[00:04:32 - 00:04:37]
matter how smart the idea or how valuable it might be, you couldn't test it, you had

[00:04:37 - 00:04:41]
to get 500 people to approve something before you could do anything.

[00:04:41 - 00:04:45]
Even if people, even if you're, I literally had clients at Yahoo asking to spend money

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with me on an idea that I knew I could fulfill and I couldn't get management, let alone upper

[00:04:52 - 00:04:54]
management to pay any attention to it.

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And they were handing us dollars.

[00:04:56 - 00:05:03]
So it was like, you know, you know, it's funny when people ask me my ideal client size,

[00:05:03 - 00:05:07]
and I tell them the upper limit, I say the upper limit is if it takes more than two people

[00:05:07 - 00:05:10]
to decide to spend a thousand bucks, they're too big for me.

[00:05:10 - 00:05:12]
Ooh, I love that.

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That's really good.

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That's really good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's just, it's crazy.

[00:05:18 - 00:05:22]
I mean, because I used to work in corporate America and I always did best in the smaller

[00:05:22 - 00:05:30]
companies when they were still seen and thoughtful, but when they got big, it was a torture chamber

[00:05:30 - 00:05:31]
for me.

[00:05:31 - 00:05:37]
I was sitting in conference rooms and we're sitting there debating some stupid little

[00:05:37 - 00:05:38]
purchase.

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And I'm looking around, I'm adding up everybody's effective hourly rate.

[00:05:41 - 00:05:42]
Oh, yeah.

[00:05:42 - 00:05:47]
And like, we just spent more money deciding to spend this money.

[00:05:47 - 00:05:48]
Like, exactly.

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We just spent it.

[00:05:49 - 00:05:50]
Yep.

[00:05:50 - 00:05:51]
Yep.

[00:05:51 - 00:05:52]
I liked it.

[00:05:52 - 00:05:54]
So there's something I learned recently that kind of, I think I've kind of applied in the

[00:05:54 - 00:06:00]
past, at least tried to, which is there are three types of decisions when you consider

[00:06:00 - 00:06:01]
them.

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There's, it's either a hat, a haircut, or a tattoo.

[00:06:06 - 00:06:11]
So a hat is, you can change a hat really easily and it'll have no effect on your day.

[00:06:11 - 00:06:15]
A haircut, you get a bad one, you're going to have to live with it for maybe a month

[00:06:15 - 00:06:18]
or so, depending how fast your hair grows and how bad it was.

[00:06:18 - 00:06:21]
If you had long hair and you cut it, that's going to be a different story, but essentially

[00:06:21 - 00:06:25]
it's a month, two months, you're going to deal with the ramifications of this decision.

[00:06:25 - 00:06:28]
Tattoo, that's going to be a long time.

[00:06:28 - 00:06:34]
So the amount of effort, time, and thought you put into some of these decisions, I've

[00:06:34 - 00:06:41]
learned fairly quickly, especially now as a bootstrapped entrepreneur, better to think

[00:06:41 - 00:06:48]
about things in that context and move than because most decisions aren't a tattoo and

[00:06:48 - 00:06:50]
you think of them as that, right?

[00:06:50 - 00:06:54]
Because oh my God, it could be the ramifications, da, da, da, da, most of the time, at worst

[00:06:54 - 00:06:56]
things are a haircut.

[00:06:56 - 00:06:57]
So could you live with a bad haircut?

[00:06:57 - 00:07:02]
Sure, you can, you know, it's not going to end your life, right?

[00:07:02 - 00:07:06]
It might be uncomfortable, you'll have to deal with it for a while, but it's not the

[00:07:06 - 00:07:07]
end of the world.

[00:07:07 - 00:07:08]
It'll grow back.

[00:07:08 - 00:07:09]
I love that framework.

[00:07:09 - 00:07:12]
I'm going to steal that hat by all means.

[00:07:12 - 00:07:13]
It's not even mine.

[00:07:13 - 00:07:15]
I don't even remember where I saw it, but I thought it was genius and I started using

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it.

[00:07:16 - 00:07:19]
I, you know, and this is an example of why I love podcasting.

[00:07:19 - 00:07:21]
I get to have conversations like this.

[00:07:21 - 00:07:27]
It's a fantastic way for me to learn about things that are hard for me to learn otherwise.

[00:07:27 - 00:07:38]
Um, let's dive into the whole world of search because that, I, I personally feel like there's

[00:07:38 - 00:07:40]
a ton of misinformation out there.

[00:07:40 - 00:07:44]
I, I hear stuff and I'm like, I don't think that's right.

[00:07:44 - 00:07:51]
And, you know, not that that's new, not that that same thing new, but it's like this whole

[00:07:51 - 00:07:58]
AI thing has given this, you know, a little cloud, this little nebulous cloud where you

[00:07:58 - 00:08:00]
can feed in misinformation.

[00:08:00 - 00:08:01]
It comes out sounding normal.

[00:08:01 - 00:08:02]
Oh, yeah.

[00:08:02 - 00:08:06]
I mean, so, okay, in the search space for context, right?

[00:08:06 - 00:08:14]
I helped found conductor, conductor is the enterprise, essentially the enterprise platform

[00:08:14 - 00:08:16]
of record for SEO.

[00:08:16 - 00:08:24]
So I grew up essentially in that space sitting across from Fortune 500 Internet retailer 1000

[00:08:24 - 00:08:25]
CMOs.

[00:08:25 - 00:08:31]
And in my own style, which is typical of me, speaking truth to power, right?

[00:08:31 - 00:08:34]
Tell them, Hey, you're not, you're not set up for success right now.

[00:08:34 - 00:08:36]
It doesn't matter if I have the answers to the algorithm.

[00:08:36 - 00:08:41]
You're not going to see the results you want because nine times out of 10, they are their

[00:08:41 - 00:08:43]
own worst competitor.

[00:08:43 - 00:08:48]
Like they can't get their act together like you said to people to get $1,000 spend impossible.

[00:08:48 - 00:08:54]
So God forbid we're trying to actually get, you know, content live on the website or technical

[00:08:54 - 00:08:55]
changes done.

[00:08:55 - 00:08:58]
They're taking a ticket and waiting and it's not happening, right?

[00:08:58 - 00:09:01]
So they're not structured for success.

[00:09:01 - 00:09:07]
When I look at the history of SEO, which I've been a significant part of, I'd say, right?

[00:09:07 - 00:09:14]
The industry kind of would would confirm that I'll tell you that there has been shiny object

[00:09:14 - 00:09:16]
syndrome forever.

[00:09:16 - 00:09:17]
Why?

[00:09:17 - 00:09:20]
Because SEO is unsexy.

[00:09:20 - 00:09:21]
It's very unsexy.

[00:09:21 - 00:09:26]
I'm asking you to look at your content, check whether or not the terms you're using are actually

[00:09:26 - 00:09:28]
the terms of your consumer.

[00:09:28 - 00:09:34]
I'm asking you to make technical changes that frankly, raise more wristwatches than eyebrows

[00:09:34 - 00:09:39]
in a conference room, right, and know executive wants to hear about.

[00:09:39 - 00:09:45]
So you really live in a world where you control nothing but have a tremendous impact if you

[00:09:45 - 00:09:48]
can get everyone to play nice with one another.

[00:09:48 - 00:09:50]
So let's go back.

[00:09:50 - 00:09:53]
People a while back were saying voice search would be the end of SEO.

[00:09:53 - 00:09:57]
Alexa, oh my God, you know, let's make recipes for Alexa.

[00:09:57 - 00:10:05]
Well, I know a very large enterprise insurance company who made Alexa recipes, 70-some-odd

[00:10:05 - 00:10:06]
people use them.

[00:10:06 - 00:10:09]
Their marketing department was about 150 people.

[00:10:09 - 00:10:14]
So that's a sense of like of where things were and what.

[00:10:14 - 00:10:19]
So unfortunately, SEO by blog, which is like, oh, I read something, therefore we should

[00:10:19 - 00:10:23]
do it, is a very typical way of people trying to do this.

[00:10:23 - 00:10:30]
Now, okay, SEO, A-E-O-G-E-O, we can change the acronyms any which way you want AIO.

[00:10:30 - 00:10:33]
The reality is, oh, is what's at the heart of it.

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And you need to focus more on what you can control and what gets ingested by whatever

[00:10:38 - 00:10:41]
is here and whatever's coming next.

[00:10:41 - 00:10:48]
Now I can tell you what's here is the dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee version of AI.

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You are, if you're running after LLMs right now and you think a chatbot is the best version

[00:10:53 - 00:10:59]
of what AI can give you, I hate to tell you this, it'll be like us saying, yeah, we'll

[00:10:59 - 00:11:05]
be back in the office in a, if you're saying that around April of 2020, right?

[00:11:05 - 00:11:06]
Yeah.

[00:11:06 - 00:11:07]
Okay.

[00:11:07 - 00:11:10]
We weren't back in the office for like three years legitimately, right?

[00:11:10 - 00:11:15]
So the reality is when you go back and look at this in hindsight, this episode, you'll

[00:11:15 - 00:11:22]
be probably saying like, wow, yeah, optimizing for chat GPT right now to show up there or

[00:11:22 - 00:11:28]
to show up for Claude, a bit of a fool's errand, like the gold rush, the only people

[00:11:28 - 00:11:32]
that made money in that were the people selling you the pans and the picks.

[00:11:32 - 00:11:39]
So the reality is trying to show up there and spending a lot of effort there is not

[00:11:39 - 00:11:43]
necessarily where I would spend my time right now or money for that matter.

[00:11:43 - 00:11:50]
Spend it on making your content more effective for the people you're trying to serve.

[00:11:50 - 00:11:56]
Half the time, screw that 80% of the time, 85% of the time, if I come to your website,

[00:11:56 - 00:12:02]
what you've treated as a bullet point is someone's entire purchase reason where their whole problem

[00:12:02 - 00:12:05]
you're trying to solve and you haven't even framed it as a problem, you're talking about

[00:12:05 - 00:12:08]
it as your solution, right?

[00:12:08 - 00:12:11]
Like I always think about, I'll give you a prime example.

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Let's say you're in therapy, you're a therapist, right?

[00:12:13 - 00:12:16]
And you have a page about grief.

[00:12:16 - 00:12:21]
So grief, well, you might say we serve grief, right?

[00:12:21 - 00:12:27]
A bullet point about loss of a parent, sudden loss, loss of a child, loss of a pet.

[00:12:27 - 00:12:33]
Are you telling me that all four of these aren't different enough and weren't enough

[00:12:33 - 00:12:37]
of a message that they probably require their own pages?

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So if someone's looking for pet loss, they can actually find an entire page to vote as

[00:12:40 - 00:12:43]
that, which is very different than loss of a child, right?

[00:12:43 - 00:12:49]
So but you're trying to treat that all as and think about that with features for software.

[00:12:49 - 00:12:53]
Think about that with functionality for particular things you're trying to sell online.

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It is very, very typical for someone to say, well, this is it.

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Slap it up there and then never look deeper to understand that, wow, no, no, no.

[00:13:02 - 00:13:05]
People care a lot more about this than I thought.

[00:13:05 - 00:13:09]
Go into your own business, ask the questions, go look at the chat logs, go look at the sales

[00:13:09 - 00:13:10]
calls.

[00:13:10 - 00:13:14]
You have more data than you've ever had access to before and you're letting something else

[00:13:14 - 00:13:20]
synthesize it rather than going to the wisdom you already have, which is the true value,

[00:13:20 - 00:13:21]
right?

[00:13:21 - 00:13:22]
Yeah.

[00:13:22 - 00:13:24]
If Craig, you and I have the same easy button.

[00:13:24 - 00:13:29]
You've got the easy button called chat GPT or Claude or perplexity or Grok or Gemini fill

[00:13:29 - 00:13:30]
in the blank, right?

[00:13:30 - 00:13:32]
And I have the same button.

[00:13:32 - 00:13:36]
The only thing that's going to make our results different is the data set we work off of.

[00:13:36 - 00:13:40]
So if you have insights, that's where you have to work them from, your own wisdom and

[00:13:40 - 00:13:41]
your own.

[00:13:41 - 00:13:45]
And that's how you build a better website, a better experience, a better everything,

[00:13:45 - 00:13:46]
right?

[00:13:46 - 00:13:51]
Rather than trying to chase whether or not an LLM happens to mention you at this time and

[00:13:51 - 00:13:52]
place.

[00:13:52 - 00:13:57]
And, you know, one of the things that you're saying there goes back ages ago, something

[00:13:57 - 00:14:01]
Google's always said, not that I trust Google these days.

[00:14:01 - 00:14:03]
I think that all of a sudden.

[00:14:03 - 00:14:10]
But Google's always said, design for the user, design your website for the user, which it's

[00:14:10 - 00:14:17]
like the biggest duh statement ever, you know, that, you know, we do all these radical things.

[00:14:17 - 00:14:18]
And we forget the user.

[00:14:18 - 00:14:21]
I'm like, why are you, why are you in business?

[00:14:21 - 00:14:22]
Focus on that.

[00:14:22 - 00:14:24]
Focus on your customers.

[00:14:24 - 00:14:27]
And Google said that for years.

[00:14:27 - 00:14:40]
And I remember, I remember, I was at a conference in, I think it was early 23, maybe late 22,

[00:14:40 - 00:14:43]
is right after chat, GPT came out.

[00:14:43 - 00:14:44]
Sure.

[00:14:44 - 00:14:49]
And some, I asked and Google, you know, Google always sends their reps to the conferences.

[00:14:49 - 00:14:50]
Yep.

[00:14:50 - 00:14:51]
Give guidance.

[00:14:51 - 00:14:56]
A lot of people don't realize that Google's long, for a long time has sent people to conferences

[00:14:56 - 00:14:59]
to help people figure out how to be found on Google.

[00:14:59 - 00:15:04]
And but they sent a rep to this conference and somebody asked, hey, do you have any issues

[00:15:04 - 00:15:07]
if we write our blogs using chat GPT?

[00:15:07 - 00:15:11]
And the dude from Google stood on stage and said, Oh, no, we don't care.

[00:15:11 - 00:15:15]
And I remember listening to them, like, that's not true.

[00:15:15 - 00:15:18]
That violates everything you've said for 20 years.

[00:15:18 - 00:15:19]
Yep.

[00:15:19 - 00:15:22]
And sure enough, like, you know, and so people are like, Hey, we found our new blog writer.

[00:15:22 - 00:15:29]
It's called chat GPT. And two to three years later, easy button.

[00:15:29 - 00:15:32]
There's this concept of more rather than better.

[00:15:32 - 00:15:36]
And like the thing AI allows you to do is it's an amplifier, right?

[00:15:36 - 00:15:39]
So like I just told you, Oh, don't use it.

[00:15:39 - 00:15:43]
Don't go after AI rankings, quote unquote, which don't really exist.

[00:15:43 - 00:15:44]
They're not ranks, right?

[00:15:44 - 00:15:48]
It doesn't go from most relevant to least relevant, like a search engine.

[00:15:48 - 00:15:52]
So it can literally boldface lie to you on the second thing it mentions and you won't

[00:15:52 - 00:15:54]
necessarily know that, right?

[00:15:54 - 00:15:58]
So it's not a search engine treating it the same way as a fallacy.

[00:15:58 - 00:16:03]
What I say is no, no, no, and this is what I coined called web presence intelligence,

[00:16:03 - 00:16:05]
because we needed another acronym.

[00:16:05 - 00:16:11]
But essentially what what I like to do is I like to look at the search landscape of wherever

[00:16:11 - 00:16:16]
you're looking, whether it's in Google or AI in different models and stuff.

[00:16:16 - 00:16:17]
What comes back?

[00:16:17 - 00:16:21]
Because what comes back is going to formulate opinions.

[00:16:21 - 00:16:25]
Now the question is and the problem is businesses are usually structured in their marketing by

[00:16:25 - 00:16:26]
channel.

[00:16:26 - 00:16:33]
Oh, this is social and oh, this is, this is display and oh, this is partnership and this

[00:16:33 - 00:16:34]
is PR.

[00:16:34 - 00:16:35]
Here's the problem.

[00:16:35 - 00:16:37]
The web doesn't work that way.

[00:16:37 - 00:16:40]
The web works cross channel.

[00:16:40 - 00:16:44]
The user could find frequently a video that shows up all the time.

[00:16:44 - 00:16:46]
Okay, are we advertising there or not?

[00:16:46 - 00:16:50]
Are we making a video that could compete with this video and ultimately be the one

[00:16:50 - 00:16:51]
that gets found?

[00:16:51 - 00:16:56]
Are we, I like to think of it as build by or borrow your way into the conversations.

[00:16:56 - 00:16:58]
Those conversations are going to happen irrespective.

[00:16:58 - 00:17:01]
The SEO version of the world was I have to be the answer.

[00:17:01 - 00:17:04]
No, you don't have to be the answer.

[00:17:04 - 00:17:10]
You have to have answers you've created internally with your content and be credible.

[00:17:10 - 00:17:13]
And then you have to find places to intersect with that audience.

[00:17:13 - 00:17:17]
Whether you buy your way in with display ads, whether you PR your way in because that's

[00:17:17 - 00:17:22]
the author who wrote the article that keeps getting cited and maybe you have them come

[00:17:22 - 00:17:27]
right for you, which increases your authority or, you know, hey, there's a dot org that keeps

[00:17:27 - 00:17:31]
showing up all the time and we've never partnered with these guys.

[00:17:31 - 00:17:35]
They get visibility for all the stuff we'd love to do or show up for how come we're not

[00:17:35 - 00:17:37]
in bed with these guys.

[00:17:37 - 00:17:40]
This is the kind of thing that like, again, when you're myopic and you're only looking

[00:17:40 - 00:17:46]
at it through the silo of a channel and the KPIs are all measured that way.

[00:17:46 - 00:17:47]
It's a fallacy.

[00:17:47 - 00:17:52]
So my problem becomes if you go to too big a company enterprise, they don't know how

[00:17:52 - 00:17:54]
to go cross silo.

[00:17:54 - 00:17:56]
The silos are the issue.

[00:17:56 - 00:18:00]
If you go to too small a company in that regard, they don't have the resources to actually

[00:18:00 - 00:18:01]
execute.

[00:18:01 - 00:18:05]
So you could literally give them all the answers and say, go place these bets like on the roulette

[00:18:05 - 00:18:10]
table, but they don't even have the ability to put the chips out right in the right spots.

[00:18:10 - 00:18:14]
So it's finding that like specifically in web presence and intelligence.

[00:18:14 - 00:18:18]
I try to tell companies who approach me to do that too early on.

[00:18:18 - 00:18:21]
I say time out, let's do a maturity assessment and understand where you're at.

[00:18:21 - 00:18:26]
That's not to say you're not, you may not be ready for a strategy like that, but you're

[00:18:26 - 00:18:27]
always ready.

[00:18:27 - 00:18:32]
And this is a big thing of how any company can use AI.

[00:18:32 - 00:18:38]
Look at your content that serves your consumer, your prospect, your customers, the best right

[00:18:38 - 00:18:39]
now, right?

[00:18:39 - 00:18:40]
Look at that.

[00:18:40 - 00:18:42]
Get real feedback on that.

[00:18:42 - 00:18:47]
And now look at whether or not the format it's in is the best version of what it could

[00:18:47 - 00:18:48]
be.

[00:18:48 - 00:18:54]
Because AI allows you to change formats fairly easily and you should be repurposing content

[00:18:54 - 00:18:55]
using that.

[00:18:55 - 00:19:02]
For example, I am shocked at how few companies have built interactive versions of their data

[00:19:02 - 00:19:03]
online.

[00:19:03 - 00:19:04]
I don't need it to rank.

[00:19:04 - 00:19:05]
I just think it's really good.

[00:19:05 - 00:19:11]
It could be something you send in your newsletter, something you promote at a conference you're

[00:19:11 - 00:19:15]
at, something you even run ads against, right?

[00:19:15 - 00:19:21]
All of a sudden, I had an article I wrote that was like four pages long and it was all

[00:19:21 - 00:19:26]
about how one writer doesn't equal a certain number of blog posts.

[00:19:26 - 00:19:30]
And I had to explain to executives like, hey, if they use a subject matter expert, if there's

[00:19:30 - 00:19:34]
certain amount of words, if you have to go a certain round of reviews, all this takes

[00:19:34 - 00:19:35]
time, right?

[00:19:35 - 00:19:37]
So it's a variable.

[00:19:37 - 00:19:40]
Now, if I thought that executives were going to read that, great.

[00:19:40 - 00:19:46]
I created it as a piece of content, which frankly was written using AI and me and all

[00:19:46 - 00:19:47]
this stuff.

[00:19:47 - 00:19:48]
I was prompting it.

[00:19:48 - 00:19:51]
So I knew it wasn't going to rank, but I was making it a white paper.

[00:19:51 - 00:19:52]
So it didn't matter.

[00:19:52 - 00:19:54]
It was going to be gated and downloaded.

[00:19:54 - 00:19:57]
And then I realized, no, no, no, no, no, hold on a second.

[00:19:57 - 00:19:59]
I went back to Claude and I challenged it.

[00:19:59 - 00:20:01]
I said, I've given you all these things.

[00:20:01 - 00:20:02]
Here's the time.

[00:20:02 - 00:20:04]
I think it takes to do all these in the factors.

[00:20:04 - 00:20:06]
Let's turn this into a slider.

[00:20:06 - 00:20:11]
So now on my site, there's something I call a vibe check where people can actually slide

[00:20:11 - 00:20:12]
back and forth.

[00:20:12 - 00:20:15]
The executive can put that in and see an estimate of the amount of time it would take

[00:20:15 - 00:20:17]
to produce that.

[00:20:17 - 00:20:18]
Wow.

[00:20:18 - 00:20:22]
That is just making it a lot easier for someone who I know was not going to read an article

[00:20:22 - 00:20:27]
of four pages long, right, which might have been brilliant and all fairness, it wasn't.

[00:20:27 - 00:20:29]
But it might have been brilliant.

[00:20:29 - 00:20:32]
They're not going to be able to actually get the value out of that.

[00:20:32 - 00:20:34]
So you convert it into something that it's easier.

[00:20:34 - 00:20:35]
Now do I know how to code?

[00:20:35 - 00:20:39]
It was completely vibe coded, completely, right?

[00:20:39 - 00:20:42]
And for those who don't know, what's vibe coding?

[00:20:42 - 00:20:46]
So vibe coding is basically you don't know how to code and therefore you go and you essentially

[00:20:46 - 00:20:51]
use one of the LOMs to produce this stuff without a dev.

[00:20:51 - 00:20:54]
So there's no developer involved.

[00:20:54 - 00:20:58]
Essentially you're telling it what you want it to do and you keep going back and forth

[00:20:58 - 00:21:01]
and wrestling with it until it produces what you want.

[00:21:01 - 00:21:07]
It's a little more specific than that, but that's the general frame of what vibe coding

[00:21:07 - 00:21:08]
is.

[00:21:08 - 00:21:10]
Funny enough, think of it like this, my company's name is vibe logic.

[00:21:10 - 00:21:16]
I'm definitely the vibe, not the logic side of that.

[00:21:16 - 00:21:18]
What comes out of vibe coding, right?

[00:21:18 - 00:21:22]
It's all the stuff I couldn't do because I am ADD and whatever, but I can sure express

[00:21:22 - 00:21:28]
the feeling I want, the things I wanted to do, the stuff, right, the vibe I need out

[00:21:28 - 00:21:29]
of it.

[00:21:29 - 00:21:32]
That's kind of why that term of vibe has picked up recently.

[00:21:32 - 00:21:42]
I'm trying to get a Wikipedia entry from myself as being the first person to use the

[00:21:42 - 00:21:46]
command more cowbell when programming my agent.

[00:21:46 - 00:21:47]
I love it.

[00:21:47 - 00:21:50]
Actually, I was trying to get it to just a logo size.

[00:21:50 - 00:21:53]
I was like, no, I want it bigger and it came back and won that big.

[00:21:53 - 00:21:59]
I finally just said more cowbell and my agent responds more cowbell got it, bigger logo

[00:21:59 - 00:22:05]
clear the crap and boom, the next round was exactly what I was looking for.

[00:22:05 - 00:22:08]
By the way, I think that's also one of the most frustrating parts about AI right now

[00:22:08 - 00:22:13]
that I just can't get over.

[00:22:13 - 00:22:18]
It's like saying you and I have an internet connection, therefore we both can create these

[00:22:18 - 00:22:21]
Picasso websites.

[00:22:21 - 00:22:28]
When the reality is, we end up creating MySpace pages like ugly stuff that isn't great and

[00:22:28 - 00:22:33]
so in order to get to that, it's not as push button as people make it out to me.

[00:22:33 - 00:22:38]
You could wrestle for hours to get the AI to produce exactly what you want.

[00:22:38 - 00:22:42]
The problem is when you then go tell someone who was built with AI, people go, you press

[00:22:42 - 00:22:45]
the button and you must have gotten that out of it.

[00:22:45 - 00:22:52]
That's the big, I think our big struggle right now in society is AI produced must be easy,

[00:22:52 - 00:22:57]
but that is not necessarily true and one of the biggest problems is you could produce

[00:22:57 - 00:23:04]
a lot of confident sounding stuff that has the best poker face that frankly, volume is

[00:23:04 - 00:23:08]
not equal to expertise either.

[00:23:08 - 00:23:14]
I could hand you a 40 page report that seems so smart, but if you're an expert in that

[00:23:14 - 00:23:19]
space and you read paragraph three, you're like, "Forgive my friends, this is bullshit."

[00:23:19 - 00:23:23]
But executives aren't going to know that necessarily because they're not necessarily experts in

[00:23:23 - 00:23:26]
each space, so they go, "Oh, wow.

[00:23:26 - 00:23:27]
This is amazing.

[00:23:27 - 00:23:34]
I've never seen this much documentation on X and that's the problem is that people consuming

[00:23:34 - 00:23:38]
that stuff don't know better half the time."

[00:23:38 - 00:23:42]
Here's an example of my brother-in-law, a very senior developer.

[00:23:42 - 00:23:45]
He works on kernel level software.

[00:23:45 - 00:23:52]
He's done a lot of work for the government, I think he's written viruses for the government.

[00:23:52 - 00:23:58]
He told me a couple months ago, he said, "I haven't written a line of code in two months."

[00:23:58 - 00:24:04]
All of his coding right now is using agents.

[00:24:04 - 00:24:10]
He was over here a couple of weeks ago and I asked him, I said, "Hey, if I'm using the

[00:24:10 - 00:24:15]
same model that you're using, if I'm using the same AI that you're using, can I write

[00:24:15 - 00:24:17]
the same quality code that you can?"

[00:24:17 - 00:24:18]
He said, "Nope.

[00:24:18 - 00:24:19]
Nope."

[00:24:19 - 00:24:20]
I knew that would be the answer.

[00:24:20 - 00:24:26]
I think that's the thing that people need to understand in this whole world of AI.

[00:24:26 - 00:24:28]
The expertise is in a driver.

[00:24:28 - 00:24:32]
If you put me in an F1 racer, I'm not going to win the race.

[00:24:32 - 00:24:36]
No, you're going to crash it, honestly.

[00:24:36 - 00:24:41]
But AI is enough automation of driving that you won't crash it.

[00:24:41 - 00:24:44]
You'll get around the track, but you will not win.

[00:24:44 - 00:24:46]
That's the difference.

[00:24:46 - 00:24:52]
It'll look like you're an F1 racer because you sat in the car and it moved fast.

[00:24:52 - 00:24:55]
But that is not the same as winning the race.

[00:24:55 - 00:25:01]
I think that's the biggest issue right now, honestly, is I think people are way too worried

[00:25:01 - 00:25:03]
about like, "What's the alarm saying about me?

[00:25:03 - 00:25:04]
What's this?

[00:25:04 - 00:25:05]
What's that?"

[00:25:05 - 00:25:07]
No, no, no.

[00:25:07 - 00:25:12]
It will always be at question is what it can learn about you.

[00:25:12 - 00:25:15]
Now, you have three levels of control, right?

[00:25:15 - 00:25:16]
Level one.

[00:25:16 - 00:25:18]
Am I saying about myself?

[00:25:18 - 00:25:21]
Easier set on a small website or one in which a small business has full control?

[00:25:21 - 00:25:22]
Two.

[00:25:22 - 00:25:26]
What's the rest of the web talking about when it references me?

[00:25:26 - 00:25:29]
That's everyone caring about.

[00:25:29 - 00:25:30]
Am I mentioned in that Reddit thread?

[00:25:30 - 00:25:33]
Am I spoken about on that review site?

[00:25:33 - 00:25:34]
Am I right?

[00:25:34 - 00:25:38]
All of that stuff, which frankly businesses should have been looking at to begin with,

[00:25:38 - 00:25:44]
but they were so frankly like navel gazing and egotistical in the way they approached

[00:25:44 - 00:25:47]
it, that they thought they should always be the answer, that they didn't look at the

[00:25:47 - 00:25:48]
rest of the supply, right?

[00:25:48 - 00:25:51]
There was affecting people's opinions.

[00:25:51 - 00:25:58]
And then the third part of that is, you know, how many of those things confirm the same thing

[00:25:58 - 00:26:00]
about me, right?

[00:26:00 - 00:26:06]
So am I really not just what's out there as a landscape, but are they all kind of referencing

[00:26:06 - 00:26:11]
these things properly and in the best way so that all the signals are correct?

[00:26:11 - 00:26:18]
But the rest of the web is not in all fairness, like there's a rented space, so to speak,

[00:26:18 - 00:26:23]
where you're like, okay, you're in LinkedIn profiles and pages and social stuff and things

[00:26:23 - 00:26:29]
you actually have control over where you can go edit something versus something that's

[00:26:29 - 00:26:35]
completely separate, like a Wikipedia page or, you know, or, you know, I'm trying to think

[00:26:35 - 00:26:42]
of one that's not at all owned by anybody's capability to influence it, I would say like

[00:26:42 - 00:26:46]
a lot of the review sites and other things where like they're going to do their review

[00:26:46 - 00:26:51]
of you and yeah, you could put a sponsorship on there by your way into the conversation,

[00:26:51 - 00:26:56]
but really just being there already gives you a certain amount of cash.

[00:26:56 - 00:27:03]
So you really do have to realize that the way to win moving forward is to actually realize

[00:27:03 - 00:27:09]
the wisdom that's been sitting inside your business for a long time and it's not always

[00:27:09 - 00:27:14]
earth shattering stuff, like you would be shocked how much your own red tape is literally

[00:27:14 - 00:27:15]
value.

[00:27:15 - 00:27:17]
I'll give you a very quick example.

[00:27:17 - 00:27:21]
If you go look, if you're one of those companies that has a lot of legal requirements before

[00:27:21 - 00:27:26]
you can publish anything, right, I guarantee you there's been a thousand emails between

[00:27:26 - 00:27:31]
your lawyer in house or even externally and your writer, right, or whoever's charged with

[00:27:31 - 00:27:33]
publishing the content, cool.

[00:27:33 - 00:27:39]
So that's a lot of data you could feed an LLM right now to keep to yourself and look

[00:27:39 - 00:27:44]
at, oh, before we publish the next piece of content, run it through the system that checks

[00:27:44 - 00:27:48]
it against all these emails that we've gotten back from the lawyer and tell me which one

[00:27:48 - 00:27:52]
of them it would be breaking before I send it to the lawyer.

[00:27:52 - 00:27:57]
Now I'm saving billable hours right there to when I send the email to Craig, my lawyer

[00:27:57 - 00:28:01]
and say Craig, I was going to do this, this and this, but I checked it already for this,

[00:28:01 - 00:28:04]
this and this because you've told me in the past, do you think Craig's going to let that

[00:28:04 - 00:28:05]
fly now?

[00:28:05 - 00:28:06]
Probably.

[00:28:06 - 00:28:10]
He's probably going like, wow, Stefan's been paying attention to all the emails I said

[00:28:10 - 00:28:12]
him about the legal stuff.

[00:28:12 - 00:28:13]
I love this guy.

[00:28:13 - 00:28:14]
Let's go.

[00:28:14 - 00:28:18]
You know, in half those decisions, I hate to say it are a little bit of like how they're

[00:28:18 - 00:28:19]
feeling that day.

[00:28:19 - 00:28:25]
So the reality is like if you build that, that was just made up of the of that that was made

[00:28:25 - 00:28:29]
up of red tape, that's the red tape that lives inside of your org that you were able

[00:28:29 - 00:28:30]
to turn into value.

[00:28:30 - 00:28:35]
So think about all the wisdom you have about what your clients care about, what makes them

[00:28:35 - 00:28:39]
renew, what makes them buy more stuff.

[00:28:39 - 00:28:40]
What are they worried about?

[00:28:40 - 00:28:43]
What are the things they complain about to your customer service?

[00:28:43 - 00:28:48]
There's so much data there that you have access to that you can turn into really meaningful

[00:28:48 - 00:28:55]
stuff that either helps your customer today or the future customer tomorrow that like it's

[00:28:55 - 00:29:01]
an embarrassment of riches and the and you're worried about what LLMs are talking about it.

[00:29:01 - 00:29:03]
This is this is a shiny object.

[00:29:03 - 00:29:06]
The true value of what this is meant to do is make you look back in your business and

[00:29:06 - 00:29:10]
say, am I doing a good job of recognizing what's important?

[00:29:10 - 00:29:14]
Am I doing it a job of expressing that?

[00:29:14 - 00:29:17]
And then how can I express that in multitude of ways now?

[00:29:17 - 00:29:24]
Not more, but better versions of what I have so that other people can get value out of it.

[00:29:24 - 00:29:26]
When you do that, you win.

[00:29:26 - 00:29:32]
So let's wrap up with this, and it's a little bit of an open question for me, and it's the

[00:29:32 - 00:29:33]
future of search.

[00:29:33 - 00:29:36]
And let me give you a little bit of my journey.

[00:29:36 - 00:29:42]
When chat GBT came out and then co-pilot, I started using that and I'd still check blue

[00:29:42 - 00:29:44]
links.

[00:29:44 - 00:29:49]
And then I started noticing I'd use that more predominantly look at blue links less.

[00:29:49 - 00:29:57]
This year I brought up my own agent, my own open-claw agent.

[00:29:57 - 00:30:03]
And what I'm finding is my use of things like chat GBT, co-pilot, whatever your AI is, that's

[00:30:03 - 00:30:04]
going down.

[00:30:04 - 00:30:09]
I'm relying more and more on my agent where they can't stick ads in.

[00:30:09 - 00:30:12]
I'm not even looking at blue links anymore.

[00:30:12 - 00:30:13]
Sure.

[00:30:13 - 00:30:14]
Sure.

[00:30:14 - 00:30:16]
Where are we going to be two years from now?

[00:30:16 - 00:30:17]
Okay.

[00:30:17 - 00:30:21]
Great question.

[00:30:21 - 00:30:28]
What's interesting is that I think agents, the way that we're using them today is a little

[00:30:28 - 00:30:33]
bit also like the BBS version of, you know, the internet, okay?

[00:30:33 - 00:30:37]
And we're excited because it's the first time we get access to these types of things,

[00:30:37 - 00:30:41]
and they're being made, you know, but they're being made accessible.

[00:30:41 - 00:30:46]
But let's remember that there was a time in which people thought that Google's top

[00:30:46 - 00:30:49]
result was the best result.

[00:30:49 - 00:30:50]
And Google was God.

[00:30:50 - 00:30:55]
We haven't even reached that yet in the general populace of the internet.

[00:30:55 - 00:30:58]
You're the tip of the spear right now and the stuff you're using.

[00:30:58 - 00:31:02]
And we forget that when we're in our bubbles of like the use of AI, right?

[00:31:02 - 00:31:08]
The average person out there does not even understand what AI is meant to do.

[00:31:08 - 00:31:11]
Now where I think we're going to go, all right?

[00:31:11 - 00:31:15]
And I think Apple was probably the smartest ones in the whole game, not getting directly

[00:31:15 - 00:31:22]
into the mix when it comes to trying to build the agent, world of LML and stuff, because

[00:31:22 - 00:31:23]
who cares?

[00:31:23 - 00:31:24]
They don't care.

[00:31:24 - 00:31:25]
They don't need that.

[00:31:25 - 00:31:31]
What you need, again, getting back to the wisdom layer is you need the data, which Apple

[00:31:31 - 00:31:35]
is the operating level to do that.

[00:31:35 - 00:31:37]
Why do you need that data?

[00:31:37 - 00:31:42]
Because the more dots you have to now connect, the more proactive you can be.

[00:31:42 - 00:31:46]
We are moving towards proactive web, proactive web.

[00:31:46 - 00:31:51]
You don't have to search for it, Craig, because it knows to search for it for you.

[00:31:51 - 00:31:56]
You don't need to go in three apps anymore because it recognizes the connections of how

[00:31:56 - 00:31:58]
you would use those apps together.

[00:31:58 - 00:32:01]
Case in point, you and I are going to go to dinner.

[00:32:01 - 00:32:03]
We have an open table reservation.

[00:32:03 - 00:32:06]
Ways knows how long it will take me to get there.

[00:32:06 - 00:32:08]
Ways knows how long it will take you to get there, right?

[00:32:08 - 00:32:09]
Okay.

[00:32:09 - 00:32:11]
It shows you're in traffic.

[00:32:11 - 00:32:16]
So open table, because what am I doing at 60 miles an hour, opening my open table, trying

[00:32:16 - 00:32:17]
to change my reservation.

[00:32:17 - 00:32:21]
If I'm asking Siri to do it, God knows that's not going to work right now, right?

[00:32:21 - 00:32:25]
But hopefully in the future, why isn't this all working without me?

[00:32:25 - 00:32:32]
So the concepts of these kind of agents working together with data and connecting the dots,

[00:32:32 - 00:32:33]
oh, guess what?

[00:32:33 - 00:32:37]
We know you were going to a sushi restaurant, I hope you like sushi, Craig, and we're going

[00:32:37 - 00:32:42]
to be late, so it actually didn't have another space for us later that night.

[00:32:42 - 00:32:49]
It actually moved us to another place with similar reviews, about three blocks away,

[00:32:49 - 00:32:54]
and it booked a garage for you and I, and we got a discount because both of us are showing

[00:32:54 - 00:32:56]
up at the same time or within a certain window.

[00:32:56 - 00:33:01]
So the system had a reason to give us both a discount, and we didn't have to do anything.

[00:33:01 - 00:33:02]
Yeah.

[00:33:02 - 00:33:08]
That is the world in my mind of where this all turns into.

[00:33:08 - 00:33:13]
The idea of searching, the searches will be brought to you, right?

[00:33:13 - 00:33:14]
It'll be intuitive.

[00:33:14 - 00:33:21]
In three years, you won't have to enter as much of the query as it'll understand and

[00:33:21 - 00:33:23]
tell you about the things you want to know about.

[00:33:23 - 00:33:29]
Much like your algorithm feed is in your social, you'll be seeing search almost actively working

[00:33:29 - 00:33:34]
for you, bringing you opportunities and things you'd be interested in based on your history.

[00:33:34 - 00:33:39]
I don't know if everyone's going to want to accept that because this scary privacy kind

[00:33:39 - 00:33:43]
of thing, but those that are more on the tip of the spear are not going to have to actively

[00:33:43 - 00:33:44]
do the searches.

[00:33:44 - 00:33:50]
The funny part about that is it doesn't change the idea that it still has to ingest something,

[00:33:50 - 00:33:51]
right?

[00:33:51 - 00:33:55]
It still has to, the data still has to be there to make those decisions off of.

[00:33:55 - 00:34:00]
So while you may not actively be entering things as much, you will still be seeing data

[00:34:00 - 00:34:02]
getting data back and all that sort of stuff.

[00:34:02 - 00:34:05]
I think it'll just be synthesized in a better way.

[00:34:05 - 00:34:07]
Well, here's an example.

[00:34:07 - 00:34:13]
I had something come up tomorrow morning where I had a couple of meetings to reschedule.

[00:34:13 - 00:34:15]
And one of the meetings was somebody I've never met.

[00:34:15 - 00:34:23]
And so I went into my CRM to shoot out some proprietary times that aren't on my regular

[00:34:23 - 00:34:24]
calendar.

[00:34:24 - 00:34:28]
And a note inside my CRM that would have been put in there by my agent.

[00:34:28 - 00:34:30]
So I work with wealth managers.

[00:34:30 - 00:34:36]
It had scanned the SEC's website, pulled his ADV, and was telling me exactly how many assets

[00:34:36 - 00:34:39]
under management he has, which lets me estimate his revenue.

[00:34:39 - 00:34:42]
And that's just a mix that they're waiting for me.

[00:34:42 - 00:34:45]
I never had to, it was just hanging out.

[00:34:45 - 00:34:49]
Well, I mean, the idea would have been for it to flag you in advance.

[00:34:49 - 00:34:51]
You don't have to go into the inbox.

[00:34:51 - 00:34:53]
And it says, hey, there's a conflict.

[00:34:53 - 00:34:57]
Here are the three people that are up for that same spot.

[00:34:57 - 00:35:00]
And by the way, here's the one I'd consider based on.

[00:35:00 - 00:35:05]
Or it would ask, hey, are you looking, is this new business that you're looking for?

[00:35:05 - 00:35:09]
Is this client related or which one would you prioritize?

[00:35:09 - 00:35:12]
You tell it and then it gives you the suggestion and so which one to go to.

[00:35:12 - 00:35:15]
You never have to read that information, right?

[00:35:15 - 00:35:21]
That's the reality is like, now, we have to be careful because if it gave you the wrong

[00:35:21 - 00:35:24]
information, how are you going to QA that, right?

[00:35:24 - 00:35:25]
We don't know.

[00:35:25 - 00:35:27]
And it could be helping you make decisions that are wrong.

[00:35:27 - 00:35:28]
We don't know, right?

[00:35:28 - 00:35:33]
So a lot of that is going to come down to confidence scores, the ability for something

[00:35:33 - 00:35:38]
to tell you, hey, the response I'm giving you is better than the flip of a coin.

[00:35:38 - 00:35:42]
It's an 85% or this has a 20% certainty of being accurate.

[00:35:42 - 00:35:45]
We don't have that right now in the data we get back.

[00:35:45 - 00:35:47]
We just have blind trust.

[00:35:47 - 00:35:50]
And what we're going to see is just like the internet, remember people weren't willing

[00:35:50 - 00:35:53]
to put their credit cards in, right?

[00:35:53 - 00:35:55]
Because it was like, oh my God, I don't want to put my in 2000.

[00:35:55 - 00:35:57]
I don't want to put my credit card online.

[00:35:57 - 00:35:58]
I can't do that.

[00:35:58 - 00:35:59]
I can't bank online.

[00:35:59 - 00:36:00]
How would I ever do that?

[00:36:00 - 00:36:01]
That's crazy.

[00:36:01 - 00:36:08]
Well, I think we're going to see an adoption, a drop because people's trust will be broken.

[00:36:08 - 00:36:13]
And then I think you as the agents that I've talked about that connect these dots that make

[00:36:13 - 00:36:18]
life easier because we all need that were overwhelmed by decision fatigue.

[00:36:18 - 00:36:22]
And that thing starts reducing decision fatigue and taking the decisions off the table for

[00:36:22 - 00:36:26]
you, scary as that is to say, people will start the general populace will start adopting

[00:36:26 - 00:36:30]
AI a lot more and see it's actual sound.

[00:36:30 - 00:36:34]
Well, Stefan, this has been an amazing conversation.

[00:36:34 - 00:36:37]
I wish we could get another hour.

[00:36:37 - 00:36:38]
How can folks reach it?

[00:36:38 - 00:36:46]
Because this gets, as you said, I'm on the tip of the spear, most business owners aren't.

[00:36:46 - 00:36:49]
And so this gets confusing.

[00:36:49 - 00:36:53]
People need people need clear, need voices to help them sort through this.

[00:36:53 - 00:36:54]
How can folks reach you?

[00:36:54 - 00:36:55]
Sure.

[00:36:55 - 00:36:56]
And guidance.

[00:36:56 - 00:36:57]
Absolutely.

[00:36:57 - 00:37:02]
So obviously, vibelogic.com, that's my website, my organization.

[00:37:02 - 00:37:04]
Feel free to reach out there.

[00:37:04 - 00:37:09]
One of the other definitive, my, you know, drug of choice when it comes to social is definitely

[00:37:09 - 00:37:10]
linked in.

[00:37:10 - 00:37:14]
I'm constantly putting content out again.

[00:37:14 - 00:37:15]
This isn't just a t-shirt.

[00:37:15 - 00:37:17]
If you're not helping people, you're just selling stuff.

[00:37:17 - 00:37:19]
I'm not in the business of just selling stuff.

[00:37:19 - 00:37:20]
Don't get me wrong.

[00:37:20 - 00:37:25]
I like to make money like everyone else, but I really do like helping businesses achieve

[00:37:25 - 00:37:26]
their potentials.

[00:37:26 - 00:37:31]
So if people are interested in understanding more about how they can show up, where they

[00:37:31 - 00:37:36]
should show up, why they should show up, and what they should be saying when they do.

[00:37:36 - 00:37:37]
Feel free to reach out to me.

[00:37:37 - 00:37:38]
No selling.

[00:37:38 - 00:37:39]
Don't sell me.

[00:37:39 - 00:37:44]
I don't need to buy anything right now, but please do reach out on LinkedIn.

[00:37:44 - 00:37:48]
That's a great place to get me and mention that you saw me here, so I have some context

[00:37:48 - 00:37:50]
and all that good stuff.

[00:37:50 - 00:37:52]
But I really appreciate the time, Craig.

[00:37:52 - 00:37:53]
It's been such a pleasure.

[00:37:53 - 00:37:56]
Well, thanks for coming on layers and legacies.

[00:37:56 - 00:37:57]
Thanks for having me.