Rob Johnson and Steve Thornton join Craig Andrews for Leaders & Legacies Episode 283 to unpack how financial clarity and operating discipline help owners build companies that are scalable, transferable, and less dependent on them.

Too many business owners build companies that depend on them for every important decision, every customer save, every operational fix, and every financial answer. The business may be profitable, but it still feels fragile. It owns the owner instead of the other way around.

In this episode, Craig talks with Rob Johnson and Steve Thornton about how financial clarity and operating discipline work together to create a stronger business. Rob brings the financial lens: cash flow, forecasting, capital risk, and the enterprise value decisions owners often postpone. Steve brings the operating lens: leadership teams, process, execution, and reducing the owner dependency that keeps companies stuck.

Rob and Steve explain why enterprise value is not just a sale price. A more transferable business is more valuable to buyers, but it is also more valuable to the owner who keeps it. Better systems, clearer analytics, stronger leadership, and less dependence on one indispensable person can improve profitability, reduce stress, and give the owner real choice.

The conversation is ultimately about freedom. Whether an owner wants to sell, transition to the next generation, become less operational, or simply enjoy the company again, the path requires both numbers and execution. A business that can run without the owner is not just more scalable and predictable. It is more livable.

Learn more about Sabre Financial Group at https://www.sabre-financial.com/.

Learn more about APEX Management Partners at https://www.apex-mgt.com/index.

Connect with Rob Johnson on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertejohnson1/.

Connect with Steve Thornton on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevethorntonmba/.

Learn more about Craig Andrews and allies4me at https://allies4me.com/.

Apply to be a guest on the podcast at https://podcast.allies4me.com/podcast-guest/.

Key Points with Timestamps

• [00:00:21] Craig introduces Rob Johnson and Steve Thornton and frames the episode around financial discipline, operating discipline, and enterprise value.
• [00:04:41] Rob explains how owner dependency creates stress, weakens systems, and can make the business feel like it owns the owner.
• [00:08:40] The conversation reframes enterprise value optimization as a way to escape the feeling of being trapped in the business.
• [00:15:17] Rob and Steve discuss why buyers pay more for transferable companies with clear systems, stronger teams, and less dependence on indispensable people.
• [00:22:40] Steve describes the practical test of whether owner dependency has really been reduced: step away long enough to see whether the systems hold.

Transcript

[00:00:21 - 00:00:28] today I will welcome Rob Johnson and Steve Thornton. This is the first time having two people

[00:00:28 - 00:00:33] on the podcast at the same time. They are both partners in Sabre Financial Group.

[00:00:34 - 00:00:41] Rob brings the financial discipline, the cash forecasting, capital risk and the decisions

[00:00:41 - 00:00:46] that shape enterprise value. We're definitely going to be talking about enterprise value and why

[00:00:46 - 00:00:52] you should care about that. Steve brings the operating discipline. He helps leadership teams cut

[00:00:52 - 00:01:00] through complexity, fixed-stalled growth and execute with focus. Together they help business owners

[00:01:00 - 00:01:07] move from firefighting to building companies that are scalable, predictable and more valuable.

[00:01:08 - 00:01:15] Now I would say if it's not just more valuable to investors it's definitely more valuable to the

[00:01:15 - 00:01:22] owners. Guys, welcome. Thank you, Greg. Great to see you. This is Steve by the way and I'm Rob

[00:01:22 - 00:01:29] with KC. That's a good distinction. It was so nice to see you. Thanks for having us today.

[00:01:29 - 00:01:37] Happy beer. Yeah. Well, I've known both of you and Steve you're the one reason that I know

[00:01:37 - 00:01:44] Nils Vignia who's become a wonderful friend. I just want to thank you for that. That was just I

[00:01:44 - 00:01:51] think you mentioned or recommended my book and he read it and he bought it, read it and contacted me.

[00:01:54 - 00:02:00] Rob, of course, we've known each other for what three years now. Three years, yes. Yeah, exactly.

[00:02:01 - 00:02:09] I always enjoy our conversations with the caveat. They always have trouble figuring out what you do

[00:02:09 - 00:02:16] because it just seems to be more and every time you talk you're doing a little bit more but it's

[00:02:17 - 00:02:24] always centered around the financial side of things. Yeah, and it's not trying to be it's a good

[00:02:24 - 00:02:30] comment. It's not trying to be everything to everyone but over the years, we started out very

[00:02:31 - 00:02:37] focused on controller and CFO functions and finding financing for clients and these kind of things.

[00:02:37 - 00:02:44] But in recent years the operations and the financial side of things, they intertwine so tightly

[00:02:44 - 00:02:49] and I've connected with Steve and some others who have that great operational background. So

[00:02:49 - 00:02:55] we've been just as focused over the last year or two on connecting the dots between the operations

[00:02:55 - 00:03:03] side, the financial side and help our clients with both. Yeah. You know, on my other podcast,

[00:03:03 - 00:03:09] fiduciary alchemy, we had a guest that was talking about a guy that was a business owner and

[00:03:09 - 00:03:19] unexpectedly died at 46 and all of a sudden he had five kids. His wife was working part time

[00:03:19 - 00:03:25] doing something that she enjoyed and now all of a sudden there's a whole bunch of questions

[00:03:25 - 00:03:33] that have to be answered. What was the value of his shares in the company and there was some

[00:03:33 - 00:03:39] financial planning which is not what you guys do from a financial advisor standpoint but there

[00:03:39 - 00:03:46] are some questions there but the bottom line is he waited too long to answer important questions

[00:03:46 - 00:03:57] in his business and as result his widow is now having a return to work full time and when I look

[00:03:57 - 00:04:04] at what you guys do together and tell me if I have this wrong Rob you make sure the books

[00:04:05 - 00:04:12] would sing beautiful songs beautiful music to any investor who wanted to buy and Steve you

[00:04:12 - 00:04:19] make sure there's a team that can run without the owner being there. I think your description is

[00:04:19 - 00:04:26] good. I would say we also are there these a lot of business owners are pretty lonely at the top

[00:04:26 - 00:04:32] and so one of the ways that shows up is they don't have a sparring partner for strategy and have

[00:04:32 - 00:04:39] positioned the business so that's one of the things that we both participate in. The

[00:04:41 - 00:04:46] the other thing I'm adding that sad story you shared is a lot of times a lot of business owners

[00:04:46 - 00:04:52] are immense stress because everything falls on them. They have so much oner dependency that

[00:04:52 - 00:04:58] and when systems start to break and they do as you grow and when all of a sudden the people systems

[00:04:58 - 00:05:03] and the playbooks aren't working anymore now the sudden you have all this stress and that can lead

[00:05:03 - 00:05:11] to health problems and relationship problems and just goes down this just awful path of you feel

[00:05:11 - 00:05:16] like you're a prisoner to your business versus being in love with your business right and so one of

[00:05:16 - 00:05:23] the things that I'd say we enjoy is being able to help people change that to find joy back in life

[00:05:23 - 00:05:28] and some of the guys some of the people fall back in love with their business and they don't

[00:05:28 - 00:05:33] want to sell they want to keep it because they they love their business now because it's not it's not

[00:05:33 - 00:05:38] killing them. It's not owning them. It's not only like they're owning they get back to the point where

[00:05:38 - 00:05:42] they're owning the business and the business is not owning them and it's a huge it's a huge difference

[00:05:42 - 00:05:49] so just in terms of that quality of life so so yes I mean improving profitability yes absolutely

[00:05:49 - 00:05:55] and improving systems and process yes of course but it's it's a it's a ton about what Steve said

[00:05:55 - 00:06:02] which is improving their life and their family situation and having a better quality environment

[00:06:02 - 00:06:06] for their employees and the leadership team and and everything like that that goes with it.

[00:06:07 - 00:06:14] Well and one of the things that Steve that you mentioned was kind of a sense of isolation

[00:06:14 - 00:06:22] loneliness you know I think Rob I think you and I met through Vistage and I always describe

[00:06:22 - 00:06:30] Vistage as a board of directors that couldn't fire you and the and that's the problem with

[00:06:30 - 00:06:34] you know with public companies they build a board of directors and I think often the CEO is a

[00:06:34 - 00:06:38] little or a little skittish of being totally open totally honest because these are the people that

[00:06:38 - 00:06:43] not only determine their pay but can decide you know what I don't think you're the right leadership

[00:06:43 - 00:06:50] move them forward and and so it's hard you know a lot of executives live business owners talk

[00:06:50 - 00:06:55] about being lonely because who can they have these tougher authentic conversations with

[00:06:57 - 00:07:03] yeah there's nobody I mean that's the problem for most they don't have you know you know we all

[00:07:03 - 00:07:08] should have wise counsel you know and and they don't have the ability to do that because they can't

[00:07:08 - 00:07:12] share these things with their employees because some of these things are not

[00:07:12 - 00:07:19] easily shareable and so they and then the other part of it is just they need you need a sparring

[00:07:19 - 00:07:25] partner on ideas right yeah and and you need you need somebody to give you other ideas to add

[00:07:25 - 00:07:33] into what you're doing like a lot of them just don't have bandwidth so they it's which ideas should

[00:07:33 - 00:07:38] we go forward with which ones do we need to put a pause on because right now we sign the bandwidth

[00:07:38 - 00:07:45] forward and so you know having somebody with you I think all companies need somebody to play that

[00:07:45 - 00:07:52] role with them yeah and I mean one of our new new enterprise value optimization clients who I've

[00:07:52 - 00:07:57] known for several years but I've worked with her helping her to secure financing and things

[00:07:57 - 00:08:01] like this for acquisitions that she's done you know she came to us you know three or four months ago

[00:08:02 - 00:08:08] and said you know I'm just I'm overwhelmed and I need I need somebody that's like me that can think

[00:08:08 - 00:08:13] strategically like me and there's nobody else here to do it I people who can execute and you can do

[00:08:13 - 00:08:19] things but I don't have the thought partner I don't have I don't have a sounding board and so yeah

[00:08:19 - 00:08:24] to your point of what the you know this stage kind of being that advisory board and that is our role

[00:08:24 - 00:08:28] in some ways for a lot of these business owners as much as anything to help them think through and

[00:08:28 - 00:08:36] make good decisions prioritize properly and so on so I can recall exactly zero times where I was

[00:08:36 - 00:08:40] having dinner with somebody or having a drink and they said you know what I'm worried about I'm

[00:08:40 - 00:08:47] really worried about my enterprise value optimization right what is that and why should people care

[00:08:47 - 00:08:52] but you know what they do say they do say you know what I feel trapped in my business that's what

[00:08:52 - 00:08:56] you might hear them say right you know you might hear them say I feel overwhelmed by my business like

[00:08:56 - 00:09:03] I've kind of created this monster and and I love it and I hate it and and I like Steve's that

[00:09:03 - 00:09:10] earlier they want to get back to loving it and or they want to figure out a way to to exit or

[00:09:10 - 00:09:14] to turn it over to someone else and you know they want to turn what you do here is I want to turn

[00:09:14 - 00:09:19] the business over to my adult kids but they're not ready to run it nobody really else knows how

[00:09:19 - 00:09:24] to run it and so those are the kind of things that people that people will say right there's

[00:09:24 - 00:09:30] they want a transition they want you know they want a solution they want some some happiness and

[00:09:30 - 00:09:36] less stress and they don't know that there's a good way to get there and I believe no absolutely

[00:09:36 - 00:09:41] and I believe the enterprise value optimization is really important I just want to make sure

[00:09:41 - 00:09:47] everybody is clear on what we're talking about that's basically whether or not you decide to sell

[00:09:47 - 00:09:52] sell the business if you were to sell the business that's the number that gets written on the

[00:09:52 - 00:10:00] check that's written to you right yeah and yes exactly but it also can 100% yes but it also can

[00:10:00 - 00:10:07] be a scenario where the owner doesn't really even want to exit but here she wants to own the

[00:10:07 - 00:10:12] business more from a run the business more from a strategic perspective or more anymore as an

[00:10:12 - 00:10:17] absentee type of owner be an investor to the business versus active operator of the business

[00:10:17 - 00:10:23] and so in the same way you're still you know improving the profitability and improving the systems

[00:10:23 - 00:10:29] and the process and the leadership improves that asset and makes that asset whether they keep it or

[00:10:29 - 00:10:37] whether they sell it makes that asset much more valuable financially intangibly and and all

[00:10:37 - 00:10:42] all of those ways entirely yeah and again I'll go back and emphasize I think a key thing and this

[00:10:42 - 00:10:48] is probably where we get the most enjoyment is when you see that person we start engaging somebody

[00:10:48 - 00:10:52] they're stressed out they have all these problems everything's on them the way of the world

[00:10:52 - 00:10:59] and and they're living moment to moment and and when they when they at the end of a process like this

[00:10:59 - 00:11:04] they're all of a sudden they they're full of joy they they can choose to come in if they want to

[00:11:04 - 00:11:10] they don't have to the business runs itself they they can have normal life they're they're family

[00:11:10 - 00:11:16] gets to know them again I mean those things are things that are make it rewarding for for Robin

[00:11:16 - 00:11:21] I and the business might be worth 30 million dollars more than it was when you started the processes

[00:11:21 - 00:11:27] yeah which is also good well and something's coming to mind as I'm trying to picture this you know

[00:11:27 - 00:11:32] I used to have this car that I always traveled with tools in the back of the car and I remember

[00:11:32 - 00:11:42] being pulled over on highway 71 or rather 17 which goes north south up the east coast on the

[00:11:42 - 00:11:50] edge of dark with a couple of wrenches trying to get my car going again and I mean I had a car

[00:11:51 - 00:11:56] but you know it would do weird things at different times so one of the times I was driving up there

[00:11:56 - 00:12:00] I ended up losing all my headlights say you know I first I lost my low beams

[00:12:01 - 00:12:06] that lost one my high beams and all I had left was a single high beam and I'm following a state

[00:12:06 - 00:12:16] and that seems like that seems like a lot of the companies that you're going in and helping

[00:12:17 - 00:12:23] yeah I mean Craig I literally had a guy about six or eight months ago he owns a bunch of auto

[00:12:23 - 00:12:27] and he said it was appropriate he said I feel like I'm talking about his business

[00:12:27 - 00:12:32] he said I feel like I'm driving this Ferrari with a blindfold on right and that's the point

[00:12:32 - 00:12:37] right whether it's financial visibility operational visibility yeah let's get the blindfold off

[00:12:37 - 00:12:42] and let's see what's coming and and we also kind of use that driving analogy a lot ourselves we

[00:12:42 - 00:12:47] talk about you know working with our clients and and it's one thing to put a roadmap in place or to

[00:12:47 - 00:12:54] put a plan in place but if you just turn that map over to the to the client and their team busy

[00:12:54 - 00:12:59] they go probably you go back to doing when you leave you know going back to doing what they've

[00:12:59 - 00:13:03] always done before and they don't really make that progress but if you get in the car with them and

[00:13:03 - 00:13:08] you drive that change forward or you're at least in the passenger seat with them and you help and

[00:13:08 - 00:13:13] you're in the car navigating while they drive that process forward that's a game changer and you know

[00:13:13 - 00:13:18] just having the map isn't enough it's really important to be in the car with them one way or the other

[00:13:18 - 00:13:25] to drive the the improvements forward because again they don't have the bandwidth they they don't in

[00:13:25 - 00:13:30] some ways they don't need another good idea they need somebody who can execute ideas for them

[00:13:30 - 00:13:35] and and move the ball forward and and change change how things are done so life is better for all

[00:13:35 - 00:13:41] and the business operates better so if we go back to enterprise value

[00:13:42 - 00:13:47] obviously there's a number of levers you know when when in you know when PE firms coming in looking

[00:13:47 - 00:13:53] at buying the business they're looking at a few things to figure out what's the enterprise value

[00:13:53 - 00:14:00] basically what's the business worth what are those levers what's being measured sure yeah so the

[00:14:00 - 00:14:06] the starting point is the is the cash flow of the business right the forward cash flow of the

[00:14:06 - 00:14:10] business so the historical financials definitely matter they give you a sense of maybe what the

[00:14:10 - 00:14:15] the cash flow is going to be going forward but really that projected forward cash flow of the

[00:14:15 - 00:14:20] business is that baseline you're generating two million dollars a year you're generating eight

[00:14:20 - 00:14:27] million dollars a year that's kind of the starting point then based on you know where what range

[00:14:27 - 00:14:33] you're in in terms of that cash flow if you're generating half a million dollars a year a million

[00:14:33 - 00:14:38] two million dollars a year you're probably going to tend to trade at a multiple of earnings that's

[00:14:38 - 00:14:45] maybe three four five times those earnings but as you grow and you're now you're a three million

[00:14:45 - 00:14:51] dollar earnings company or five or a ten million dollar earnings company one now you're now

[00:14:51 - 00:14:56] you're getting an earnings multiple that's not three to five times your earnings maybe five to ten

[00:14:56 - 00:15:01] X or more so that's one part of it that's kind of one dimension along maybe the you know the X

[00:15:01 - 00:15:06] axis if you want to think about it that way but the other thing that happens is you know why is it

[00:15:06 - 00:15:12] three X versus five X when you're smaller and then you're now you're a bit larger but why are you

[00:15:12 - 00:15:17] going to be trading at five times your earnings as opposed to 10 or 12 times your earnings and that

[00:15:17 - 00:15:25] goes to dozens of qualitative factors that are about the the ability to transfer and deliver your

[00:15:25 - 00:15:29] business to someone else no one wants to come in take over a business that you're the only person

[00:15:29 - 00:15:34] that knows how to how to run it so to have systems in process and reduce

[00:15:34 - 00:15:41] odor dependencies and customer concentration supplier dependencies to have systems in process

[00:15:41 - 00:15:46] in place so that the company runs without having to have one or two people with their

[00:15:46 - 00:15:51] foot on the accelerator 24 hours a day every day of the year that's what makes the company really

[00:15:51 - 00:15:57] valuable and that's why you may start out as a million dollars of earnings you're getting a three

[00:15:57 - 00:16:01] X multiple on your business because your owner dependent and your companies were three million

[00:16:01 - 00:16:07] and then you work on your business for a couple years now you're earning three million dollars a

[00:16:07 - 00:16:12] year and you can sell it for six or seven now you're selling your business for 20 million dollars

[00:16:12 - 00:16:18] instead of three to five million and that's not fiction that's reality if you can you can expand

[00:16:18 - 00:16:24] your earnings base and also significantly improve the deliverability of your business and reduce

[00:16:24 - 00:16:29] the dependency of your business on key individuals then now you really have something yeah and I

[00:16:29 - 00:16:36] have one other point the other point is let's say your business is not very transferable even though

[00:16:36 - 00:16:40] the business might have technically have a value of three million you might not have a buyer for it

[00:16:41 - 00:16:47] and what the more transferable is the more attractive for another buyer to want to buy it

[00:16:47 - 00:16:52] and so you can have a lot of businesses that are worth X amount of money but they won't transfer

[00:16:52 - 00:16:58] and therefore they won't sell and therefore somebody's going to close them that's the and that's

[00:16:58 - 00:17:04] the sad part so the the other part of it is just it's truly like marketing like you do is if you

[00:17:04 - 00:17:10] want to market your business you better have a business as transferable yeah absolutely well and

[00:17:10 - 00:17:16] this is kind of your specialty Steve is you're making sure people have the processes you're the right

[00:17:16 - 00:17:23] talents in place yes but we obviously attacking things like you know do we have the right people do

[00:17:23 - 00:17:28] we have the right process we have the right strategy you know are we our position the business

[00:17:28 - 00:17:33] compared to the competition and and then we also understand where we make it money where we're not

[00:17:33 - 00:17:39] you know we are we up well we pursuing business that's in our sweet spot profitable sweet spot

[00:17:39 - 00:17:45] or we pursuing business is not good for us because it's more in the red ocean so understanding

[00:17:45 - 00:17:51] that analytics around that is very very valuable and that's one of the key things we try to do that

[00:17:51 - 00:17:56] helps some money boost their profitability early quick is making sure they're in the right place

[00:17:56 - 00:18:02] and the price points in the right area well if I could interject just add one more thing to

[00:18:02 - 00:18:08] know your your previous question about improving the operations and the value of the business

[00:18:08 - 00:18:14] in the process the other element the other element of it is you know when can that owner exit if

[00:18:14 - 00:18:19] they do want to exit they want to retire or if they want to turn turn over to their management team

[00:18:19 - 00:18:25] or their kids or remember it may be you know if if the business is not deliverable they sell it to

[00:18:25 - 00:18:30] somebody they're they're going to get low balled on the offer because it's not very deliverable

[00:18:30 - 00:18:35] and they're going to be tied to the business they're going to be handcuffed to the business the buyer

[00:18:35 - 00:18:39] is going to say hey listen that's great but you need to stick around for two or three years until we

[00:18:39 - 00:18:45] mind melt everything out of your brain and we understand how to run this company right if you if

[00:18:45 - 00:18:51] you've already done that work and in the business has leadership and can run without you now when

[00:18:51 - 00:18:55] you sell your business you don't have to stick around for two or three years you stick around for two

[00:18:55 - 00:19:00] or three months maybe you stick around for six months and then you're on your way so rather than

[00:19:00 - 00:19:04] spending those two or three years becoming an employee of your own business which most people

[00:19:04 - 00:19:09] are going to hate you spend those two or three years improving your business and really making it

[00:19:09 - 00:19:14] presentable and deliverable that's a major game changer yeah one one last comment on that too

[00:19:14 - 00:19:19] just add to that is that if you and having that earn out which is east what he's talking about

[00:19:19 - 00:19:24] that time frame you got to work they have control of your business during that time they could

[00:19:24 - 00:19:29] bankrupt your business because they really don't understand it and for whatever reason they tend

[00:19:29 - 00:19:37] to ignore whatever the previous owner thinks they think they know better and and it's it's a

[00:19:37 - 00:19:46] psychological phenomenon but it happens over and over and over yeah it's um yeah I've heard Rob

[00:19:46 - 00:19:56] from someone else who he's he's had clients of his exit in his shortest three months after the sale

[00:19:57 - 00:20:04] and the reason was they built a business that would run without him and that's really what these

[00:20:04 - 00:20:10] people are looking for it's like you know what my old car if I go back to my old car example

[00:20:10 - 00:20:17] that was a good car to sell to a mechanic it wasn't a good car to sell yeah you don't want to sell

[00:20:17 - 00:20:26] that car to me I don't know how to fix it leave me I don't have to fix it and yeah and maybe to a

[00:20:26 - 00:20:31] mechanic but again the mechanic's gonna be looking at and saying hey this is a good deal this car

[00:20:31 - 00:20:37] is constantly breaking down the highway but I know how to fix it and so I'm gonna get a bargain on it

[00:20:37 - 00:20:44] by yes yeah and and to others it's not a bargain like to and I'm not mechanical either so

[00:20:44 - 00:20:54] to rob and I that would be a disaster not not a bargain at any price yeah well and um

[00:20:55 - 00:21:01] and I would say and we'll go back to a point we made earlier is even if you don't intend to sell

[00:21:01 - 00:21:08] if it's more valuable to an investor it's more valuable to you yes you're making more money

[00:21:08 - 00:21:14] all the way through until and maybe you never sell you're making more money along the way and

[00:21:14 - 00:21:18] you're happier uh well you're happier while you're while you're doing it so yes it absolutely

[00:21:18 - 00:21:25] becomes more valuable to you you're able to borrow more um you know to finance growth or

[00:21:26 - 00:21:31] whatever it may be so yes 100 percent it's it's more valuable to you all along the way

[00:21:31 - 00:21:36] and then more valuable if you if you do try to if you do want to uh to sell it to some point in the

[00:21:36 - 00:21:41] future and you know it's interesting I feel like I've been having a lot of these conversations lately

[00:21:42 - 00:21:50] um about you you don't know how much time you have and so back at my own you all know my story

[00:21:51 - 00:21:56] um you know I didn't I didn't expectedly go in a coma for six weeks and one of the most delightful

[00:21:56 - 00:22:00] things for me was when I woke up from my coma and my my you know a couple weeks from my mind to

[00:22:00 - 00:22:07] clear up again and my wife told me basically I had a business to return return to because my team

[00:22:08 - 00:22:15] ran it without me yeah that's cool yeah that's great that's awesome and and so that's the thing I mean

[00:22:15 - 00:22:21] none of us know how much time we have um let me ask this do you ever encourage some of your clients

[00:22:21 - 00:22:28] hey you need to take a one month vacation or a three month vacation don't take your phone

[00:22:28 - 00:22:34] don't take your computer just leave let your business run and come back and let's see what happened

[00:22:35 - 00:22:41] yeah well I think to that to that point is dancers yes the as you go down this thing and you think

[00:22:41 - 00:22:47] you've solved owner dependency the only way you know is by is by exiting for a period of time

[00:22:47 - 00:22:54] and making sure that it is solid as you think so you know you you so I think that's the whole point

[00:22:54 - 00:23:00] and then if you if you're successful then you can live that life all the time that that becomes

[00:23:00 - 00:23:05] it's a choice I can go if I want to go on a long vacation I can if I want to go do something

[00:23:05 - 00:23:11] else for a period of time I can because I'm now officially an investor not an operator

[00:23:12 - 00:23:17] yeah so having being having the choice is the key thing some people love their business they

[00:23:17 - 00:23:22] want to operate and that's fine you just want to be in the position where it's optional not mandatory

[00:23:24 - 00:23:32] yeah yeah you know I wrote a wrote an about us page for a guy who he was a coach to help businesses

[00:23:33 - 00:23:39] do exactly what you're talking about but he also had a a bigger organization that he was running

[00:23:40 - 00:23:47] and he took a three month sabbatical and he's going it's like I'm coaching people and how to

[00:23:47 - 00:23:55] build organizations that run without him and he comes back and they had dug a 12 month financial

[00:23:55 - 00:24:03] hole in three months wow wow and it was kind of a sobering thing but it's back to your point Steve

[00:24:03 - 00:24:08] that the only way you know for sure is to test it and so all of a sudden when he did that he

[00:24:08 - 00:24:12] started seeing where he had failed to build an organization that would run without him

[00:24:13 - 00:24:20] yeah I my personal opinion is don't take the three months the first time just try a week you

[00:24:20 - 00:24:27] gotta ramp it to it and let's build this yeah yeah let's not learn by catastrophic maybe a long

[00:24:27 - 00:24:31] weekend I think it gets started right I mean it's interesting though I mean I you know just

[00:24:31 - 00:24:37] within within safer financial group I mean I started the company 10 or 12 years ago and it was

[00:24:37 - 00:24:41] just kind of me for a long time until the last you know four or five years when we really grown

[00:24:41 - 00:24:46] grown a fair amount and so you know I went on vacation I went to North Carolina to see my sister

[00:24:46 - 00:24:51] my uncle and my sister's family last month and you know I made comments to Steve and

[00:24:51 - 00:24:55] and some others when I got back that you know honestly it was the best it was the

[00:24:55 - 00:25:02] freest vacation I had had in 10 or 12 years because as we put systems of process into our company now

[00:25:02 - 00:25:07] where where there was there was that freedom now I almost got arrested by the US Park Service

[00:25:07 - 00:25:11] while I was there and so I would have been I would have been in jail for six months and then we

[00:25:11 - 00:25:16] really would have thought yeah really would have tested things out but but it is it is it is

[00:25:16 - 00:25:21] very liberating and even if you yeah you take a few days you take a week and then you take some

[00:25:21 - 00:25:26] more time you get to that point your company's got more valuable for it that's for sure

[00:25:27 - 00:25:33] you know I didn't realize this just until like right now something I started doing years ago

[00:25:34 - 00:25:39] is I tell my team when they take vacation if I catch them checking email and vacation

[00:25:39 - 00:25:45] I'm gonna have unkind words for them I'm good in bad room and I do because every now and then

[00:25:45 - 00:25:51] I catch that but I've done the same thing for myself when I'm on vacation I would put now the

[00:25:51 - 00:25:57] office email saying I'm not checking emails please don't call me here's who you call and I just

[00:25:57 - 00:26:04] realized part of what prepared me for going into that coma was already had a regular practice where

[00:26:04 - 00:26:13] I would leave the business for a period of time and I and one they were trained how to behave in

[00:26:13 - 00:26:18] that environment yeah I that's just I can't believe that just hit me and wasn't because I was

[00:26:18 - 00:26:24] trying to be smart and build a business it was because my brain needed a break right absolutely

[00:26:24 - 00:26:32] and and and to your point the break except for your coma experience break generally a positive thing

[00:26:32 - 00:26:36] for the owner to get away and see things they couldn't see when they're in the firefight

[00:26:37 - 00:26:47] yeah well said wow well I know we could keep going um there's so much to cover but the uh I mean

[00:26:48 - 00:26:54] if I um I mean if I were to kind of summarize this what we've been talking about is

[00:26:55 - 00:26:59] if there's a business owner there's too many business owners out there that kind of feel trapped

[00:27:00 - 00:27:06] in the chaos and they feel like they can't leave but the hopeful thing is there's a path to escape

[00:27:06 - 00:27:13] in part of its financial and part of its organizational yeah and in part of it's even just the

[00:27:13 - 00:27:19] analytics of of the business itself it's it's there's a there's a number of layers in that

[00:27:19 - 00:27:26] but all of those things can can really change the whole whole their lives wow well guys this has

[00:27:26 - 00:27:33] been really valuable how can people reach you um can reach us through the the website which is

[00:27:34 - 00:27:41] saver s a b r e dash financial dot com there's contact information contact information there

[00:27:41 - 00:27:47] and then there's there's phone numbers on the website as well and email addresses and and

[00:27:47 - 00:27:51] that kind of thing how else do you that's probably that's the best probably probably the probably

[00:27:51 - 00:27:57] the easiest way well excellent well I appreciate you coming on leaders and legacies great thank you

[00:27:57 - 00:28:02] for what people are having is always fun to visit with you and um and yeah nice to to be able to

[00:28:02 - 00:28:07] spend some time this afternoon just uh uh just to shoot the breeze and talk a little bit so thanks

[00:28:07 - 00:28:12] for having us so we're grateful uh grateful to know you and grateful that you had us join your show

[00:28:12 - 00:28:12] here today