Too many leaders say they sell through relationships, then walk into the next discovery call and make the product the center of the room. The result is a pipeline full of pressure, weak referrals, and prospects who can feel they are being processed instead of understood.
Steve Wallace, CEO of Back to Basics Revenue Company / B2B Rev, learned that lesson in one of the hardest sales classrooms: 100% commission financial services. Early success led him toward bigger opportunities, but poor guidance and product-first training pushed him into chasing whales before he had built the trust, discipline, and consultative skill those opportunities required. That experience became a turning point in how he thinks about revenue.
In this episode, Steve and Craig break down the difference between transactional selling and relational selling in a way that matters for high-trust services. The wrong discovery call starts with what you sell. The right one diagnoses who the person is, what they need now, what they may need later, and who else belongs in their business ecosystem. Steve argues that every relationship can be leveraged in a positive way, but only when leaders stop treating every person as a lead and start building a curated network of professionals they can confidently introduce.
Craig brings in a Marine marksmanship analogy: even when the business target is growth, the focus has to stay on the front sight post. In sales, that means serving the person in front of you. Steve closes the loop with a leadership point many founders avoid: delegate operations and admin so your highest-value time goes toward listening, influence, meetings, vision, sales, and marketing.
Want to learn more about Steve Wallace's work? Check out his website at http://b2brev.co.
Connect with Steve Wallace on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevewallace-b2brevco/.
Think you'd be a great guest on the show? Apply at https://podcast.allies4me.com/podcast-guest/.
Want to learn more about Craig Andrews' work at allies4me? Check out his website at https://allies4me.com/.
You can also reach Steve directly at steve@b2brev.co.
Key Points
- 0:52 - Craig introduces Steve Wallace and the revenue discipline behind Back to Basics Revenue Company / B2B Rev.
- 5:16 - Steve explains how 100% commission sales taught him the cost of chasing whales without the right trust and process.
- 8:03 - Craig and Steve define the real difference between transactional selling and relational selling.
- 14:27 - Steve describes why product-first training creates a sales process around the thing being sold instead of the client being served.
- 17:00 - Steve warns that positioning your product from the first moment can destroy larger referral and relationship opportunities.
- 18:49 - Steve lays out the first move: become a skilled practitioner of the industry, not just an expert on your own product.
- 19:44 - Discovery shifts when the seller becomes a diagnoser and asks what the person actually needs to grow.
- 20:24 - Steve explains why a curated ecosystem of professionals makes referrals more valuable than one-way lead chasing.
- 25:01 - The better first-meeting question becomes: who is this person to me, my business, and my network?
- 26:17 - Craig connects the lesson to Marine marksmanship: to hit the target of growth, focus on serving the person in front of you.
- 28:11 - Steve closes with the leadership discipline of delegation so founders spend more time listening, influencing, selling, and building the future.
Transcript
[0:00] Craig Andrews: I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said we will do whatever it takes as long as Craig is in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment in my career.
[0:37] Craig Andrews: My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today’s interview, I’ll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on this show.
[0:52] Craig Andrews: Today, I want to welcome Steve Wallace. He is the CEO of Back to Basics Revenue Company, also known as B2B Rev.
[1:00] Craig Andrews: Steve works with growing SMBs on the practical side of revenue, outbound to the right people, pipeline development systems, networking that actually turns into opportunity, and the kind of consulting that helps leaders know exactly what to do next.
[1:17] Craig Andrews: Steve works. Steve's work is especially relevant for business owners, marketing agencies, financial service firms where consistent pipeline discipline can make or break growth.
[1:30] Craig Andrews: I know Steve personally. I've known him for a year and a half. He's a good man with powerful insights.
[1:40] Craig Andrews: Steve, welcome.
[1:42] Steve Wallace: Thanks, man. I'm excited to be here. And likewise, back at you, man.
[1:46] Craig Andrews: Yeah, well, I mean, let's tell folks where we met,
[1:49] Craig Andrews: You're actually, you're the one to blame. You're the one to blame. I was living a perfectly good life. I was very happy, and you and I met, and you sent a private message. You and I met somewhere called Success Champions Networking, and you sent a private message to Donnie saying, hey, I think I found your next president.
[2:09] Steve Wallace: Yeah, exactly.
[2:10] Craig Andrews: chapter president.
[2:12] Steve Wallace: Yep, yeah.
[2:14] Craig Andrews: And all of a sudden, I started having Jessica reach out to me, hey, you should become president. I'm like, nope.
[2:19] Steve Wallace: Hahaha.
[2:20] Craig Andrews: And.
[2:21] Craig Andrews: She comes back again. You should be, you should launch your own chapter and be president. I'm like, nope.
[2:26] Steve Wallace: And Donnie.
[2:28] Craig Andrews: Donnie, I was visiting another chapter. Donnie was in there and I see him on the Brady Bunch screen and all of a sudden I get a message over LinkedIn. He's like, man, you should start your own chapter. And I was like, no.
[2:41] Craig Andrews: And then a few minutes later, when I ran into another conflict, I, I messaged him back. I said, let's talk. And so that's…
[2:48] Craig Andrews: But anyway, you're the one that set all that in motion.
[2:52] Steve Wallace: Thank you. Yeah, well, I think the short answer is, is…
[2:58] Steve Wallace: and you're to blame for this, is you and I sat down, and we had a… what I would call a… an innovative talk. And I was like, this guy has way too many creative, innovative, and entrepreneurial anti-establishment ideas. Like, ideas that…
[3:13] Steve Wallace: don't want to be universally adaptive, right? Really, really good ideas.
[3:17] Steve Wallace: And I think that would make you quite a maverick, and quite a, quite a great leader for, for the right group. So, you're to blame for that, Craig, for sharing those ideas.
[3:28] Craig Andrews: Well, I appreciate it.
[3:30] Steve Wallace: Of course.
[3:32] Craig Andrews: So,
[3:34] Craig Andrews: You know, we were talking a little bit about your, your little sales journey, you know, a few minutes ago.
[3:40] Steve Wallace: Yeah, yeah.
[3:40] Craig Andrews: And, you know, it's…
[3:43] Craig Andrews: I look at people like Michael Dell, you know, so I, you know, all the way up until December, I lived right next to Michael Dell's ranch.
[3:50] Steve Wallace: Hmm. Yep. Y.
[3:52] Craig Andrews: And the dude, when he was in high school, he was making 45. In the early eighties, he was making $45,000 a year. He was making more than his teachers.
[4:00] Craig Andrews: He had built a team, he was selling newspaper subscriptions.
[4:04] Steve Wallace: Right.
[4:05] Craig Andrews: And he figured out that the time that people are most likely to buy a newspaper subscription was after a death or marriage. And so he recruited a team to go into the courthouses, pull records, report back to him, and he'd sell the subscriptions. The dude was making $45,000 a year in 1980.
[4:24] Steve Wallace: It's wild.
[4:25] Craig Andrews: And I look at people like him that just have the gift and it's not me. I think the story for most of us.
[4:32] Craig Andrews: Is much, much more rugged story. And you were, you told me enough that your story is a lot more rugged than Michael Dell's path.
[4:40] Steve Wallace: Oh, for sure. And can I just say, like, I wish I had the creativity and ingenuity of people like Michael Dell.
[4:48] Steve Wallace: My father ended up working for him, by the way, a few years before he retired. Really? Yeah, quick segue. But,
[4:54] Steve Wallace: Yeah, no, I did not. I did not have it so easy. I did those those creative and innovative or.
[5:03] Steve Wallace: Moonshot type of ideas did not come to me. The grind started early for me.
[5:10] Steve Wallace: And, I think the short version of it, if that's what you're asking me for, Craig, is I started in 100% commission.
[5:20] Steve Wallace: Open to close and service the account, financial services, life insurance, health insurance, disability, and financial services. And, don't get me wrong, I love the industry, still have ties to it.
[5:32] Steve Wallace: And I did pretty well for the first year or so, like, rookie of the year type of numbers, and hit some leaderboard charts, but after this first, like, rotation of clients came in, I started to find and, like, stumbled into
[5:47] Steve Wallace: a handful of, like, we would call them whales. One of them would pay a year's worth of bills for me, as a 20-something-year-old, you know what I mean? Yeah. Whatever those bills were was pretty low, but it was a decent size for me.
[5:59] Steve Wallace: the thing is, once you start working with clientele like that, they're not looking for a transaction, they're looking for trust, relationship, consultative sales, and Craig, the only reason I stumbled into those opportunities
[6:12] Steve Wallace: was because I just worked really hard. I didn't have the sales skills back then at all, right? I knew product. They trained on product.
[6:20] Craig Andrews: Right, right.
[6:21] Steve Wallace: So what ended up happening was I take these opportunities to leadership, and I say, "Hey, I have this one and this one and this one," and they're all big. I'm really excited about them, Craig. Each one of them, like, bigger than the previous. And leadership looked me in the eyes, and they said, "Let me know when it's real, Steve.
[6:39] Steve Wallace: And right there created this, this moment that I.
[6:43] Steve Wallace: kind of stand on for the rest of my career, which is… I didn't get the leadership I… I needed. I could have left, I could have sought out another opportunity, I didn't. That's on me. But the rest is history. I chased those whales.
[6:57] Steve Wallace: Didn't land them, as opposed to continuing to do the work that had made me a moderate success up to that point.
[7:04] Steve Wallace: My car got repossessed.
[7:06] Steve Wallace: I didn't have a car or vehicle to get to and from my agency, didn't have the equipment I needed.
[7:12] Steve Wallace: Trying to keep up in a career that was quickly evolving in technology.
[7:17] Steve Wallace: And man, I went into this, like, depressive cycle.
[7:20] Steve Wallace: where I was no longer able to do the work, because I couldn't go see clients. Virtual work wasn't a thing back then.
[7:27] Steve Wallace: I remember one of my last sales appointments, Craig.
[7:30] Steve Wallace: I rode my bicycle.
[7:32] Steve Wallace: to the corner.
[7:34] Steve Wallace: A block away from the actual client I was going to, because I didn't want them to see
[7:39] Steve Wallace: That I didn't have a car. Show up all swe.
[7:42] Craig Andrews: Thank you.
[7:42] Steve Wallace: And the suit that was like, you know, the shirt was hanging out a little
[7:46] Steve Wallace: And that was… that was how I cut my teeth in sales, Craig.
[7:50] Steve Wallace: Wow. Through grunt, hard work, and learning the hard lessons. And I'll pause for questions, or however you want to go from there.
[7:58] Craig Andrews: Well, you know, there was one thing that you talked about in there that I think.
[8:03] Craig Andrews: A lot of people miss. I think they know it, but they don't practice it. And you said, you know, the sales were transactional, they weren't relational.
[8:12] Steve Wallace: Right.
[8:13] Craig Andrews: And for those that are still trying to catch up, what's that mean? What's the difference between transactional and relational?
[8:21] Steve Wallace: a couple things, and I don't want to go too far too fast, but a couple things, right? I associate relational and consultative to be almost hand in glove, right?
[8:30] Craig Andrews: Yes.
[8:31] Steve Wallace: They're slightly different, but hand in glove. Transactional to me at the time was, "Hey, you need this. You can buy this," right? Really, really simple. Very little follow-up afterwards. It was leading with product first, right? I knew they needed it. They bought it.
[8:48] Steve Wallace: Relational was…
[8:50] Steve Wallace: Craig, if you and I were working together, what's the likelihood that I sit down and enjoy a steak din
[8:55] Steve Wallace: You know what I mean? That's the kind of relationships that almost every professional I know really wants, and I didn't have that yet.
[9:03] Steve Wallace: Yeah. Right? I was all about product, I was all about pushing the sale. I didn't know any better. But deep down, I'm a relational seller. So I had polarizing ideas driving my sales decisions.
[9:16] Steve Wallace: And guess what? It doesn't work out that way.
[9:19] Craig Andrews: I got on a call with a couple fractional or infinite bankers.
[9:24] Steve Wallace: Yes.
[9:27] Craig Andrews: And it was a 45-minute call, and they did… they did at least…
[9:31] Craig Andrews: 35 minutes of the talking, at least.
[9:35] Craig Andrews: If not 40 minutes of the talking.
[9:38] Craig Andrews: And the first one came up.
[9:40] Craig Andrews: And starts talking about it, and it's like, oh, it's all about, arbitrage. It's all about arbitrage.
[9:46] Craig Andrews: And I asked this question and it was like.
[9:50] Craig Andrews: Well, if I'm going to put $100,000 in my business, why don't I just put $100,000 in my business as opposed to buying whole life?
[9:58] Craig Andrews: Which is going to be a lossy transaction.
[10:01] Craig Andrews: And have less than 100,000 to put in my business.
[10:05] Craig Andrews: And she sighed.
[10:06] Craig Andrews: And the dude stepped in, he's like, here, I'll try it. And he goes for another 15 minutes.
[10:13] Craig Andrews: And then I asked the same question because he hadn't answered it. Right. And he says, well, I can see I just wasted my time.
[10:20] Craig Andrews: And, but these, you know, it's funny, you were talking about, you were brought up in financial products. These are people selling probably some of the same financial products you were selling.
[10:30] Steve Wallace: the exact same ones I was selling. Yeah, I had access to all the same stuff that they had.
[10:36] Craig Andrews: And
[10:37] Craig Andrews: And I'm sitting there, I'm listening. It's like, you guys haven't asked me any questions. I'm the one asking the questions.
[10:43] Craig Andrews: And you guys are doing all the talking. And the one question I ask.
[10:49] Craig Andrews: You try to make me feel I'm stupid for not understanding your, your, your arbitrage crap.
[10:55] Steve Wallace: Gaslighting. Such a great professional tactic.
[11:00] Craig Andrews: But… The…
[11:03] Craig Andrews: you know, it's… and, you know, on, you know, the back to basics, it's, you know, it's one of those basics. People buy from people they know, like, and trust.
[11:12] Steve Wallace: Correct.
[11:15] Craig Andrews: You know what I run into in the marketing world?
[11:18] Craig Andrews: When people are buying marketing.
[11:21] Craig Andrews: 100% of the time, they want to buy transactional marketing. We're going to spend money
[11:26] Craig Andrews: Today, we're gonna, we're gonna run these transactional ads, and guess what? Google pay-per-click or, you know, you know, pay-per-click ads are like the ultimate transactional ad. I'm looking for a lawnmower or whatever. Right. And up comes all these ads. Well, we'll sell you a lawnmower.
[11:44] Steve Wallace: Bingo. Yeah, yeah.
[11:45] Craig Andrews: And that's what everybody wants to buy. And I'm like.
[11:49] Craig Andrews: If you… okay, if you're selling, you know, some little knick-knack that you can buy on Amazon for 10 bucks, fine.
[11:56] Craig Andrews: But if you're selling something, anything of value.
[11:59] Craig Andrews: you gotta buy relational marketing, and I don't think people understand the difference.
[12:04] Craig Andrews: They want that immediate return.
[12:07] Craig Andrews: And I truly think I'm not trying to besmirch people. I don't think they understand the difference between the relational and the transactional in sales or marketing.
[12:17] Steve Wallace: I would assert, Craig, they've probably never been
[12:20] Steve Wallace: What options they prefer, expressed in a way that relates to them.
[12:25] Steve Wallace: For example, hey, Craig, would you prefer to get to know somebody and decide for yourself if this is even somebody you want to continue to exchange money and time with?
[12:35] Steve Wallace: Or would you prefer to never talk to anybody ever again? No problem either way, just let me know what you prefer.
[12:41] Steve Wallace: Right? There's a…
[12:43] Steve Wallace: I… you know which way I lean, I know which way you lean, but not everybody subscribes to that, but I think perhaps people have never been given that option before.
[12:51] Craig Andrews: That's an interesting perspective.
[12:54] Craig Andrews: It's an interesting perspective.
[12:56] Craig Andrews: Well, and one of the ways I look at it is like, do you want your, do you want more of the least profitable, least loyal customers?
[13:05] Craig Andrews: Which are your transactional customers.
[13:07] Steve Wallace: Right.
[13:08] Craig Andrews: Or do you want more of the most profitable, most, you know, most sticky clients, which are going to be your relational ones?
[13:16] Steve Wallace: Right.
[13:17] Steve Wallace: Yep.
[13:18] Craig Andrews: Which do you want.
[13:19] Steve Wallace: I prefer the… I want the relational ones. I want the ones that are gonna stay with me forever
[13:23] Steve Wallace: I want the ones that look at me as the driver of their growth, the one that gave them the ideas for growth, helped them through the execution of it, who look back to me and say, hey, Steve, so glad you got me where I am, where are we going next? I want the ones who are going to refer me to even more business.
[13:39] Steve Wallace: You know what I mean? Like, I want everything. I want the world, man. You know? And not for selfish reasons, I want impact. I want to see them on a podium someday, preaching about how far their business has come. I can be in the background, I don't care. I just want to see them succeed.
[13:55] Craig Andrews: So how did you?
[13:57] Craig Andrews: You know, you've been brought up in a transactional world and, and guess what? I mean, the financial industry, especially insurance products.
[14:03] Craig Andrews: They have these transactional machines that just pump out hundreds of salespeople.
[14:09] Craig Andrews: Every year.
[14:10] Steve Wallace: High churn and their top product, not sales, not relationships, not networking, their top product.
[14:16] Steve Wallace: So, I can see how… One causes the other pretty easily.
[14:21] Steve Wallace: But you were saying… go ahead.
[14:22] Craig Andrews: Now, how did you, how'd you figure out that you were taking the wrong approach and how did you get to the right approach?
[14:29] Steve Wallace: Really fast. Really fast, because what I was told, right, this is kind of part of the story, what I was told by any agency I went to.
[14:40] Steve Wallace: was they would do product training. Here's a sales concept, and they'd jump right into a product.
[14:47] Steve Wallace: Right? I was part of the business planning team, did pretty well with it, and we jumped right into product. One small sliver of exit planning, for example, right? And here's the product we'll use to get there, and here's the sales concept wrapped around it. You see what I mean? They started on a product, and they designed a sales illustration or a sales method around it.
[15:06] Steve Wallace: Right?
[15:07] Steve Wallace: And I'm listening to this and I'm like, explain to me how this benefits.
[15:12] Steve Wallace: the client first.
[15:15] Steve Wallace: Right, like, if you've… if you've
[15:17] Steve Wallace: read How to Win Friends and Influence People, or have studied influence at all, really.
[15:23] Steve Wallace: you… rule number one is give them what they want as fast as possible. Start there, right?
[15:29] Steve Wallace: and you will…
[15:31] Steve Wallace: Leverage that relationship quite literally. They will think of you as a high value asset in their mind for putting them in the position they're in. And I couldn't reconcile these two ideas, Craig. I'm like, how in the world can I influence people, be referred by them, be connected to more people like them if I'm starting with product?
[15:50] Steve Wallace: And designing a sales process around product.
[15:53] Steve Wallace: So I thought to myself, I'm at my first networking event ever, and I remember I'm talking with a friend of mine, still today, we still work together, and
[16:03] Steve Wallace: It was one of the first people I was ever introduced to, and he says, Steve, what do you… what do you do? And I'm like, well, hi, Steve. Oh, sorry, hi, Rob. I'm a financial representative with Blank Company, and I sell life insurance and disability insurance. Are you… are you well insured? And I'm like.
[16:19] Steve Wallace: Like, this isn't my style, Craig.
[16:21] Craig Andrews: Right.
[16:22] Steve Wallace: Right. It felt terrible just coming out.
[16:26] Steve Wallace: And that was the moment I'm like, this is not going to work for me. I love the industry, but this style is not going to work for me.
[16:34] Craig Andrews: Yeah, yeah.
[16:35] Craig Andrews: You know, I was
[16:38] Craig Andrews: I was doing, I think it was a virtual coffee with somebody and, and, and dog on the, at the end of the call, the dude pitched me insurance.
[16:47] Steve Wallace: Yeah.
[16:49] Craig Andrews: And I think that's that world. They just drive it. Everybody needs insurance. And when you meet somebody, ask them if they need it.
[16:57] Steve Wallace: I want to zoom out from financial services for a second and set the stage or set the table. This isn't just insurance and finance. If you are positioning your product from moment one with somebody, you're missing out on so many more opportunities.
[17:13] Steve Wallace: It's really important to just look at somebody and try to identify or discover who are they in your network.
[17:21] Steve Wallace: Are they somebody you should lean on for more introductions to high-value people?
[17:26] Steve Wallace: Right? And if that's the case, don't ruin it with a sales pitch, they're.
[17:29] Craig Andrews: Right?
[17:30] Steve Wallace: So discovery needs to evolve.
[17:34] Craig Andrews: Well, and…
[17:36] Craig Andrews: One of the things that was hitting me as as you were talking was I can see how people fall into that trap.
[17:43] Craig Andrews: Easily, sure. Starting with… because…
[17:46] Steve Wallace: Guilty, I've done it. I'm not, like, nobody'.
[17:49] Craig Andrews: Well, I mean, if, if you, let's say you're somebody who built a product.
[17:53] Craig Andrews: And you've run into these people, hey, I have this product or my service I made.
[17:59] Craig Andrews: You, you believe in it, obviously you do, because you've devoted a lot of sweat, sweat, blood, and tears to it.
[18:05] Steve Wallace: Sure.
[18:06] Craig Andrews: And it's so easy to start with product rather than to start with the customer.
[18:12] Craig Andrews: It's, it doesn't make you a bad person, it's just, it makes you human.
[18:16] Steve Wallace: We gotta take notes from Steve Jobs. He was challenged by a very blunt skeptic in the audience about what he'd been doing. And Steve, I'm paraphrasing, but Steve made this point that it's really easy to build a process around a product. It's harder to start with the end user and work backwards.
[18:34] Craig Andrews: Yeah.
[18:35] Steve Wallace: We should do that.
[18:39] Craig Andrews: What's that look like? I mean, I agree with you and I think everybody listening agrees.
[18:44] Craig Andrews: But figuring out how to do it.
[18:46] Steve Wallace: Yeah. Okay.
[18:48] Steve Wallace: So, okay, ready? Let's get locked in. And by the way, this is my point of view on it. There's a lot of different ways to do it, but this is how I would suggest that you, me, anybody listening would do this, is become a really skilled practitioner of your industry.
[19:05] Steve Wallace: Right? Not specific to your product. You and I are in the world of business development, right? And I would say that you've done a really good job at this, Craig.
[19:14] Steve Wallace: learning the different aspects of business development. There's so many. There's SEO, there's advertising, there's pipeline development, closing, opening, prospecting, email marketing, blah blah blah blah. All of these are services that can be bought, studied, understood, and recommended.
[19:30] Steve Wallace: Right? So, in order for you to…
[19:34] Steve Wallace: start with the end user and build a process out of understanding the end user. You need to become a diagnoser.
[19:43] Steve Wallace: a diagnoser, so if you and I are having a discovery meeting.
[19:47] Steve Wallace: And let's just say I'm sitting across from you, and you're not the right fit for
[19:51] Steve Wallace: Right? My job immediately is to stop pitching, or stop sharing about my service, and go deeper into detail about the nuances of your personality.
[20:01] Steve Wallace: How you prefer to be treated, how you prefer to sell.
[20:04] Steve Wallace: what the future of your business is, what might stop you from getting there, and try to get as much good stuff as I can, and diagnose what you actually need to grow your business.
[20:14] Steve Wallace: Even if it's not mine. Now, this is where…
[20:17] Steve Wallace: it becomes a, I know, I know, everybody says this, Steve, what happens next? Here's what happens next.
[20:22] Steve Wallace: You need an ecosystem of professionals around you.
[20:26] Steve Wallace: That can solve the needs that you diagnosed and pre-qualified.
[20:30] Steve Wallace: So now I'm sending referrals.
[20:32] Steve Wallace: Right. Right? And this sounds great, but if I said, Craig, if I send you 10 referrals this year, like.
[20:38] Steve Wallace: I don't think you believe in tit for tat, but how top of mind am I for you?
[20:42] Craig Andrews: Absolutely.
[20:43] Steve Wallace: It's gonna come back tenfold for me, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not worried about it. The math supports it. It's gonna happen.
[20:50] Steve Wallace: as long as I choose my ecosystem of professionals correctly, right? If I…
[20:56] Steve Wallace: If you're myopic and you're your product only, we're probably not gonna be
[21:00] Steve Wallace: Referring back and forth very long.
[21:02] Craig Andrews: No, I mean, I have somebody.
[21:05] Craig Andrews: Somebody you know who is about to quit getting introductions from me.
[21:12] Craig Andrews: Made a monster introduction for this.
[21:14] Steve Wallace: That's a shame. Craig's a big introducer, everybody.
[21:18] Craig Andrews: Yeah, haha.
[21:20] Craig Andrews: I'm, I, I'm not gonna give it too many details.
[21:23] Steve Wallace: Right.
[21:24] Craig Andrews: Because you'll figure out quickly who I'm talking about, but it was a monster introduction. What… probably the most valuable introduction I've ever given.
[21:33] Craig Andrews: That had the biggest impact on their business.
[21:36] Steve Wallace: Mmm.
[21:37] Craig Andrews: And I've been making introductions for this person six, nine months. I've not gotten a single one back. And I had to hear, and I had to hear about that, the power of that introduction. I had to hear about it secondhand. I had someone else tell me the.
[21:50] Craig Andrews: how valuable of an introduction that was, not the person I made the introduction to.
[21:56] Steve Wallace: Wow.
[22:01] Steve Wallace: Yeah, this is stuff you have to be careful of, and we start to get into the nuances of introducing people around and building this ecosystem out, and you have to… you have to apply filters to the kind of people you like to work with. Do they match certain personality, which I call personal fit filters, and professional fit filters, which is…
[22:19] Steve Wallace: Think of those as LinkedIn filters. You can easily look them up on LinkedIn, how big the company is, and all that stuff.
[22:24] Craig Andrews: Right.
[22:25] Steve Wallace: But yeah, yeah.
[22:27] Craig Andrews: But I mean, so, but that ties into what you were talking about is.
[22:31] Craig Andrews: And, I, I generally just enjoy making introductions. It makes me feel good.
[22:38] Steve Wallace: Me too.
[22:38] Craig Andrews: But if I only have so many, you know, you're talking about building this little network, so give me an idea, what are some of the titles of the people that would be in that network, that, that you're introducing?
[22:50] Steve Wallace: Well, so me, in the space that I'm in, which is giving people… coaching people through pipeline and relationship… relationship and pipeline development, right? Leveraging relationships and tracking how to monetize them to get referrals in a controllable manner. That's what I do, right? But I'm all fit for only this many people.
[23:08] Steve Wallace: Right? So I actually need an SEO specialist, a pay-per-click specialist, an opener, a cold caller, a closer. I need the web designer, and I can have multiple fits for each one.
[23:21] Steve Wallace: Or multiple people for each of those industries. Fractional CRO, fractional chief sales officer, you know, all the sales coaches, tons of people that fit this different space.
[23:34] Craig Andrews: Yes.
[23:34] Steve Wallace: And then I select out of that group, a bigger group, a curated group of people.
[23:40] Steve Wallace: Who I would send introductions and referrals to more often.
[23:45] Craig Andrews: Yeah.
[23:47] Craig Andrews: They're succeed.
[23:48] Steve Wallace: There's some secret sauce there, but you're on there.
[23:51] Craig Andrews: Thank you.
[23:52] Steve Wallace: Ha ha.
[23:52] Craig Andrews: No, it's, it
[23:54] Craig Andrews: It's, you know, I think you're absolutely right. And it's, you know, in the green room, we were talking about somebody that.
[24:03] Craig Andrews: You know, I won't refer.
[24:05] Craig Andrews: And.
[24:07] Craig Andrews: The, you know, it's because I don't trust how they'll show up.
[24:12] Craig Andrews: And, you know, I think one of the things, if I'm hearing you correctly, one of the things you're showing is if you want people referring you,
[24:23] Craig Andrews: And if you want people to refer you.
[24:26] Craig Andrews: It's all… the first step is how you show up for them.
[24:30] Steve Wallace: Very, very much so. And this is something that people, like, hear, they're like, yeah, duh, but then they don't do it.
[24:36] Steve Wallace: Like, it's wild.
[24:39] Craig Andrews: Yeah.
[24:41] Craig Andrews: So if you're coaching people, how,
[24:44] Craig Andrews: How should they show up for their potential referral partners?
[24:49] Steve Wallace: I think it's actually two types of people. First time.
[24:52] Steve Wallace: First time meetings, right? And referral partners, right?
[24:57] Steve Wallace: First is diagnose who that person is or could be.
[25:02] Steve Wallace: To your business, and the business of your chosen… Curated group of professionals.
[25:09] Steve Wallace: Who is this person to me?
[25:11] Steve Wallace: Right? It doesn't have to be lead. Every single relationship can be monetized and leveraged in a really positive, profound way. So step number one is you go into this meeting thinking to yourself, okay, is Craig a lead? No, we don't do that. We go into this meeting thinking, who is Craig?
[25:27] Steve Wallace: How can I help Craig? What does Craig need tomorrow? What does Craig need a year from now?
[25:32] Steve Wallace: What are the people, who are the people I need to help Craig surround himself with? Do I have those people
[25:37] Steve Wallace: If I don't have those people, what can I do to get those people on Craig's
[25:41] Steve Wallace: Like, these are just questions to ask, and that's how you show up, right?
[25:46] Steve Wallace: Yeah. And for… for prospects, it's really, really similar.
[25:50] Steve Wallace: You just start diagnosing what's needed.
[25:54] Steve Wallace: I'm trying to outwardly explain what's clear in my head. I have an SOP for all this stuff, but I hope it makes sense.
[26:00] Craig Andrews: No, I mean, it makes sense to me, the…
[26:02] Craig Andrews: The starting point, you know, an analogy I use, I was, I think, you know, I was in the Marines and the Marines are excellent marksmen.
[26:10] Craig Andrews: And one of the things they taught us, and they had us recite mantras, put the clear tip of the front sight post on the blurry, able target.
[26:22] Craig Andrews: Yeah, and… The point was, if you focus on the target.
[26:27] Craig Andrews: You're not going to be a brilliant mark.
[26:29] Steve Wallace: Mmm.
[26:30] Craig Andrews: Your focus has to be on the front sight post at the end of the rifle.
[26:34] Craig Andrews: This is old school. I think the kids use scopes now.
[26:39] Steve Wallace: Scopes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. No, but I know exactly what you mean, because we don't have sc.
[26:44] Craig Andrews: Yeah.
[26:45] Steve Wallace: Yeah, so I know what you mean.
[26:46] Craig Andrews: So, but it's where you're putting your focus. And I think too many people put the focus on the target. Obviously, if you're in business, the target is to grow your business.
[26:57] Steve Wallace: 100%. Let's be real about that. Let's not ignore the fact that we're here to make money, make an impact, put food on the table, provide. Yep, I agree.
[27:06] Craig Andrews: But using the marine analogy, if you wanna be one of the best marksmen in the world, you're not gonna get there by focusing on the target. You're gonna focus on something else.
[27:14] Steve Wallace: Mmhm.
[27:15] Craig Andrews: And if I'm hearing you right, that some something else is serving the person you're in front of, serving them maximally, trying to figure out what they need, not if they, you know, not trying to wedge your, your product or your service.
[27:27] Steve Wallace: Right.
[27:28] Craig Andrews: Yeah, into their life.
[27:29] Craig Andrews: regardless of whether they need it or not.
[27:32] Steve Wallace: Right, 100%.
[27:34] Steve Wallace: Yep, mic drop, episode over.
[27:38] Craig Andrews: Well, so let me talk about before we wrap up, there's one thing I absolutely wanna talk about, and this is a challenge I face every day.
[27:45] Steve Wallace: Sure.
[27:46] Craig Andrews: My… my to-do list is always longer than I have hours in the day.
[27:51] Steve Wallace: Yeah, okay.
[27:52] Craig Andrews: And I didn't think I'd be.
[27:54] Steve Wallace: No, you're not. Not at all. Guilty. Yeah.
[27:58] Craig Andrews: How do I tackle that?
[28:00] Craig Andrews: How do I prioritize?
[28:01] Steve Wallace: Man, you're, you're asking the wrong guy, but I can give you my best, I can give you my best answer.
[28:08] Steve Wallace: But… And mine… mine is… is core value driven.
[28:14] Steve Wallace: I brought my wife on to help with the family business, and we had to get serious about personal and professional delegation, and not letting the two overlap, because we don't take accountability from one another particularly well.
[28:29] Craig Andrews: Yeah, right.
[28:30] Steve Wallace: As you can imagine. But, I told her, I was like, hey, you're… she's slightly less entrepreneurial-minded than I am, but… but we're both cut from the same cloth.
[28:41] Steve Wallace: And I said, hey, there's a vision here, and I really need your help.
[28:46] Steve Wallace: I'm just waiting for you to wake up and realize it. And, one day she woke up and realized it, and I brought her on, and the vision, Craig, is to have me doing this, and meetings, and vision, sales, marketing.
[29:02] Steve Wallace: Planning the future, and have her take care of ops and admin.
[29:06] Steve Wallace: And so my suggestion is find someone like that.
[29:09] Craig Andrews: Yes.
[29:10] Steve Wallace: Who is willing to grow with the company. She gets a raise every time we get revenue. I literally put her on payroll.
[29:16] Steve Wallace: You know what I mean?
[29:17] Steve Wallace: And to eventually get her in a position where she trains somebody to tackle all the admin stuff that she is being trained on right now, so that she can take an even more important role.
[29:27] Steve Wallace: Find someone like that.
[29:28] Craig Andrews: And that lets you make sure you're always talking to people.
[29:33] Steve Wallace: That's all I want to do. Took me a long time to realize that my skill is listening.
[29:38] Steve Wallace: influencing, and I'm driven by impact, so I should spend all my time doing it.
[29:43] Craig Andrews: Yeah.
[29:44] Craig Andrews: Oh, cool.
[29:46] Craig Andrews: Well, Steve, this has been awesome. Appreciate you coming on Leaders and Legacies. How.
[29:50] Steve Wallace: Thanks, man.
[29:51] Steve Wallace: I'm always on LinkedIn. You can reach me at Stephen Wallace on LinkedIn, B2B RevCo, or steve@b2brev.co.
[30:00] Steve Wallace: Reach out anytime.
[30:03] Steve Wallace: I'm, I'm… I like to share ideas, and…
[30:06] Steve Wallace: Yeah, that's how you can reach me.
[30:08] Craig Andrews: Awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming on Leaders and Legac.
[30:11] Steve Wallace: Thanks, Craig. This is great. You're.
[30:13] Craig Andrews: This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We are looking for leaders to share how they are making an impact beyond themselves. If that is you, please go to allies4me.com/guest and sign up there.
[30:30] Craig Andrews: If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this episode on social media. If you know someone who would be a great guest, tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag Leaders and Legacies.
[31:01] Craig Andrews: We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you do not miss anything, please subscribe. Your thumbs up, ratings, and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. If you want to know more, please go to allies4me.com or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. I will see you next time.
