The hard part of scaling is not always strategy, capital, or market timing. Sometimes the constraint is the owner's grip. Paul Graham joins Craig Andrews to talk about what happens when business owners want bigger outcomes but keep operating from the same limits, roles, and control patterns that got them to their current level.

Paul traces that thinking back through a life of calculated risk, seven concussions, early entrepreneurship, and a formative season at Enterprise Rent-A-Car. Enterprise showed him what systems and service culture can do when the promise is clear: five stars or nothing, and fulfill what you said you would do. For Paul, real growth begins when a business stops treating service as a department and starts using it as the engine for trust, referrals, and scale.

Craig and Paul also dig into the tension created by AI and automation. Tools can reduce friction, but customers still need to feel heard, seen, and understood. Paul argues that people still want people, especially when something has gone wrong and a business has the opportunity to prove it is listening.

The conversation turns to Paul's current work with business owners who want to reduce taxes, reinvest more intelligently, prepare for sale or succession, and think with a fractional family office mindset. His strongest warning is for owners who keep a chokehold on the company after it has outgrown them. A business is a living organism, and leaders who want it to grow have to hire capable operators, give them real authority, and move from participating to driving results.

Want to learn more about Paul Graham's work? Check out his website at https://investorsguidetojoy.com/.

Connect with Paul Graham on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/investorsguidetojoy/.

Think you'd be a great guest on the show? Apply at https://podcast.allies4me.com/podcast-guest/.

Want to learn more about Craig Andrews' work at allies4me? Check out his website at https://allies4me.com/.

You can also reach Paul Graham directly at paulgraham@investorsguidetojoy.com.

Key Points with Timestamps

• [00:09:05] Craig asks Paul about his early Enterprise experience and the kind of operating system it gave young leaders.
• [00:11:22] Paul explains the “five stars or nothing” service standard and why fulfillment matters more than slogans.
• [00:14:39] Paul argues that businesses scale through service by solving real customer problems, not merely through better sales machinery.
• [00:18:33] Craig and Paul discuss how AI and automation raise the stakes for customers who still need to feel heard, seen, and understood.
• [00:20:15] Paul warns against automating everything because people still want reassurance, connection, and human presence.
• [00:21:09] Paul explains how EG Capital helps business owners reduce taxes, reinvest, prepare for sale, and align the business owner's broader financial ecosystem.
• [00:23:19] Paul describes the fractional family office mindset and why some owners limit themselves before they build the right team around them.
• [00:30:02] Paul says owners can hold a chokehold on the company, but growth comes when they treat the business as a living organism and give capable operators real authority.

Transcript

[00:00:24] Today, I want to welcome Paul Graham. He is a growth strategist with EG Capital Holdings. He's also a serial entrepreneur, tax strategist, and author who helps investors and business owners scale wealth, cut tax burden, and build something that matters.

[00:00:43] And I tell you what, I can't think of anything more that most business owners want to build other than something that matters, something that lives beyond themselves. Over the last 10 years, Paul has co-founded an exit AI-driven SaaS company and a service company. He's advised Fortune 500 fintech firms.

[00:01:02] And he was the managing partner for an oil and gas asset management working, working alongside high-net-worth investors and family offices.

[00:01:14] Paul, welcome.

[00:01:16] Craig, it's great to be here, especially on a nice, hot Austin day.

[00:01:20] Yeah, yeah, so…

[00:01:22] Yeah, so we're… we're… we're in Austin, basically off the same road, probably 30 minutes apart or so. But, yeah, it's, you know, it's been a weird year in Austin. It's… I've been here 22 years, and this is the most humid year I remember.

[00:01:42] I, I remember a couple years ago where it was supposed to be, like, 100 days of over 100, and I was like, oh, okay, sounds good. And this might be every year, but it's just, like, short-term, you know, memory with some of this. And it's like, okay. And I remember there were times where I was like, oh, no, no, it's still over 100. Oh, it's still, like, this hot, this humid. Truly, I grew up in Colorado, and I didn't look at the weather. Like, I'm not good at looking at the weather, because it changed all the time.

[00:02:07] And so, yes, it might be humid today, it might be humid tomorrow, but I'll be like, yeah, it's nice out, like…

[00:02:12] you know, let me just maybe not go out in the sun for as long, or things like that. So I really just enjoy every day I can, especially the days I'm on boats, so…

[00:02:23] Yeah. Do you, on the boat, should you go out Lake Travis, or…

[00:02:27] whichever one's open, right? We had, you know, additional rain come through, right? So that changed things. But yeah, mainly Travis, not as much Lake Austin,

[00:02:39] truly, I'm… there's no discrepancy on which lake, you know, I'm open to going. Lakes… I don't want to say lakes are lakes, because that's not the case. Again, in Colorado, there are some lakes that are just, like, not ideal.

[00:02:52] But the lakes here in Texas, specifically, are incredible. I have a short-term rental, a couple short-term rentals I own, but one of them's also in Canyon Lake, and that's beautiful water. It's, I believe, one of the only two

[00:03:04] clear water lakes in Texas, besides Possum Kingdom. And so, yeah, all lakes in Texas, I think, are good lakes. So, very happy for any of them.

[00:03:15] Well, and I know Canyon Lake's been running really low for a number of years, and I think they just got filled up for the first time in a while.

[00:03:22] Yeah, they got filled up, and

[00:03:25] I think there were some areas that, yeah, got, like, over-flooded, or also had some, you know, issues too, especially, like, you know, downstream. My property's on the south side, you know, about maybe, like, a half mile or so from, several different boat ramps, and so there was no impact, right? But definitely along the river side, you know, I believe there were issues, that people had, but, you know, it's,

[00:03:50] unfortunate, also just it's…

[00:03:53] kind of what you'd get, for the longest time in Austin, right? People didn't have lake houses, they just had, you know, a barren lake bed, you know, behind their house, right? And they just had a house. And so, you know, with the additional rain, they now have a lake house. I forget how much…

[00:04:09] the water rows, specifically, like, Lake Austin, Lake Travis kind of area, but, I mean, it was, like, 20, maybe 50 feet, like, it was… it was substantial. So, very thankful for, for rain.

[00:04:22] So, I did a calculation at one point. Lake Travis ended up being about 3.5 feet above full.

[00:04:27] Okay.

[00:04:28] And I'm downstream, and I was trying to figure out how much water they were about to send my way. That 3.5 feet represented 22 billion gallons of water.

[00:04:38] That were all headed my way. And obviously, there was a lot more. We now have… I'm right next to the Colorado River, my neighborhood is. Okay. And, we now have a beach. We have an outright beach that wasn't there a month ago.

[00:04:53] And saw that sand that just came downriver towards us.

[00:04:58] Man, I mean It's positive… it's the… it's the silver lining of sorts.

[00:05:03] Yeah, oh yeah, no, I'm loving it.

[00:05:06] You said something in the green room that, struck me. You said you've…

[00:05:11] Not even… not have one concussion, or two concussions.

[00:05:15] You've had 7? Is that right?

[00:05:18] Yeah, and even as I was saying it, I was like, there's a notepad on my computer of me noting, like, you know, how many and sort of which ones, you know, what they were about, but yeah, I mean, it's just been a combination of, if you will, a series of unfortunate events. You know, I wouldn't say I'm super extreme within sports or risk-taking. I'm more of a calculated risk type of person.

[00:05:41] And even this idea of, like.

[00:05:43] You know, risk is just not knowing the inputs and not controlling the outcome.

[00:05:47] As we think about maybe, like, a wealth management or business sort of perspective. But yeah, I mean, there were two specifically that, you know, really changed how I view, you know.

[00:05:59] I view myself, what I maybe think of the world, or, yeah, different things that have come up. But yeah, it's just kind of been a little bit of, my story, so…

[00:06:09] Well, what caused them, or at least what's… what are the most interesting concussions? What happened?

[00:06:17] Most interesting concussion, I'll start with, I slept on black ice, maybe when I was, like, in third grade, went to the, nurse, basically, and I was, in the grand scheme of things, fine, but I was smart, and I realized that, like, oh, hey, if I just said one or two words, I could go home for the day. So it wasn't,

[00:06:40] you know, bad or terrible. I was pretty, you know, conscious with everything.

[00:06:46] But, you know, just kind of recognize that, and so, especially being in Colorado, noticing that just because, you know, you'd see ground, it doesn't mean there's not ice on it, and so being aware of that. I'd say the most notable one was I was snowboarding, probably should have not gotten an additional run, and I was wearing a helmet, but I, you know, hit my head when I fell back, knocked unconscious for about 20 minutes.

[00:07:10] had friends there at the time, and I was just like, hey, my head hurts, I'm just gonna, like, hang out here. They were both lifeguards, and they're just like, okay, so ski patrol came and all this stuff, hey, we'll let you down the mountain, like…

[00:07:22] I mean, okay, and I distinctly remember asking, like, hey, what side are you gonna be on? Because as you go down, like, your head's to one side, right? You know, if I have any problems or questions or whatnot. And, yeah, my friends later were, like, teasing me. They're like, dude, like, come, like, what… it's like, that is a legitimate question in a, you know.

[00:07:40] in an issue, right? So those are the most, like, notable, and I would say the one that was, like, the most…

[00:07:47] And I was trying to think of, like, do I use the word fun, but unique, I would say, by far and away. I played lacrosse for most of, adolescent youth, a little bit of soccer, too, but I was at a lacrosse training camp, and there were some, Major League lacrosse players there.

[00:08:03] You know, shooting really fast, trying to see how fast they can shoot the ball.

[00:08:07] everyone was sitting down, and I was like, I'm gonna stand up so I can see this. Well, one of the guys ripped it off the pipe, hit 96 miles an hour, went straight to my noggin on the left side. I don't know if I, like, turned around and then fell down, but, you know, that was, definitely one, that was, more…

[00:08:27] public and sort of, like, scene sort of thing. Wasn't able to finish the camp, all these things, right? But then the next year, I came to camp, and it's like, hey, if you're gonna be shooting, you have to wear a helmet, and everyone's like, this sucks, this is stupid, like, why is this? It's like, oh, I heard someone got hurt, it's like…

[00:08:42] I mean, someone did get injured, yes, they're okay, but yeah. So, you know, just random things of life that have, come to be, through just living. So, yeah.

[00:08:54] Yeah.

[00:08:55] You know, one of the things I saw that was interesting is,

[00:09:01] Yeah, you've done a number of things, had multiple exits, and…

[00:09:05] But way back in your history, you… you worked for Enterprise.

[00:09:10] Yes.

[00:09:12] That I did.

[00:09:12] And…

[00:09:13] I know they have a really rigorous, you know, they have a specific formula about who they bring on, and what they.

[00:09:20] In fact, what was that like?

[00:09:22] So, for context, that was my…

[00:09:27] junior year of college, and my freshman year of college, I ran a residential painting business, right? And mainly exterior, for about 2 years, and so I had a lot of, like, the

[00:09:41] traits and qualities they were looking for. They came to, Enterprise came to, you know, school to, you know, share about, you know, what's life like, how they, you know, train and think, all these things, right? And so, just the backstory is to say, like.

[00:09:56] what that was like was taking initiative, and how I got that opportunity is Ian, was a local manager at the time, and I was just like, hey, like, I want to do something like this, when can I do this? I don't graduate for another year, year and a half, I ended up graduating a semester early. What opportunities do you have for me right now, right?

[00:10:15] hey, you know, when it's your junior year, let's talk. I had an internship that kind of fell out, fell through for the summer, and I was like, forget this, I want to do this, you know, email, talk to him, whatever.

[00:10:27] And lo and behold, I,

[00:10:29] click some wrong button or something like that, you know, whatever, but eventually, was actually hired as… not necessarily, like, an MT, but it was, like, a client.

[00:10:39] service associate, where basically I had, like, the similar… I had the exact same, like, responsibilities, there just wasn't, like, fireable, thresholds that I had to hit. And so it was incredible to be able to see how…

[00:10:55] how you can be thrown into a fire that has really good systems, as opposed to, if you will, sometimes, if you've had jobs and it's just like, hey, go do this stuff, right? And you're just like, okay, but how, or what, or what's the definition of good, all these things.

[00:11:10] And so it was fascinating to be able to be thrown in and be like, great, welcome, pick up the phone, and it's like, hello, type thing, and just be around that sort of environment.

[00:11:22] people, that level of service, you know, it was 5 stars or nothing from, you know, customers, and…

[00:11:32] I mean, in some ways, going out of your way, but also fulfilling on what you said you were going to do, right? So Enterprise has a slogan of, like, we'll pick you up, and so some people would drop their cars off at 6.50 PM when the store closes at 7. They're like, hey, can you give me a ride home? It's like, well, the slogan's not really, like, give you a ride home, but, like, we want service, like…

[00:11:52] Let's, you know, see…

[00:11:54] I mean, there were times I drove, like, you know, half hour, 45 minutes to get to, someone's house, right? So, my point is just, like, that's what it was like, and that ability to have some of those traits, those mindset, that aspect, that company culture, and those systems that help facilitate that and keep that together, and people either really sank or swam, and truly, you know, maybe they swam really well, and then they got recruited to other companies.

[00:12:19] Companies who specifically only target, you know, current enterprise, employees, because of, of that, so…

[00:12:28] You know, as a business owner, I think

[00:12:31] For any business owner, one of the best compliments you could ever get paid is to be a target of recruiters.

[00:12:38] you know, it's… it speaks… to me, it says you're doing the right thing when people are targeting you for recruiting. I remember there was an email that Steve Jobs sent the CEO of Adobe.

[00:12:54] And Steve said, you know, at Apple, it's been our policy to not recruit from Adobe, because obviously Adobe was a strategic partner for Apple, especially in the early, early days.

[00:13:05] He said, it's always been a policy at Apple to not recruit from Adobe, but it seems like Adobe has made it a policy to recruit from us.

[00:13:17] One of us should change our policy. Who do you think that should be?

[00:13:21] And that was the entire email, but, you know…

[00:13:26] Obviously, Apple was, you know, to be able to poach people from Apple, that was a huge win.

[00:13:33] Because of that, and I think… The fact that…

[00:13:38] I mean, Enterprise really does stand out, that they've built a system, and they've built a culture. But anyway, that just caught my eye. I mean, as you're telling this story, I'm really seeing your passion for entrepreneurs, because

[00:13:52] You were an entrepreneur before you even graduated college.

[00:13:55] Yeah, I mean, truly, as I describe it, it's like, I have a servant heart to help others, and I do that through entrepreneurship.

[00:14:03] So, when I was in third grade, I got sent to the principal's office because I was quote-unquote selling keychains to kids in class. They were giving me 50 cents, I was going to the grocery store, I was getting them keychains, I was bringing them back. I told the principal, I'm not selling anything, I'm just helping people.

[00:14:20] my mom said, hey, you know, let's not… oh, okay, alright, fine. But I mean, same thing, I helped raise money for 9-11 or Hurricane Katrina. I was a kid. Made t-shirts, made little, you know, plastic kind of wristbands, right? And just really found that, like, truly.

[00:14:39] how businesses scale to the nth degree is through service. Not just heart posture, not just systems, but ultimately solving people's problems, and that, you know, each of those things, too.

[00:14:51] that's how companies I've seen exponentially grow versus sales. Hey, we have really good sales, you know, program system, you know, etc.

[00:15:00] it doesn't create as much word of mouth, it doesn't, you know, all these things. And so, meaning, like, as I've been entrepreneurial with the heart of, you know, being of service, I've just been able to meet incredibly interesting people, regardless of their net worth or company size.

[00:15:16] that are, you know, truly just aligned on how can we help more customers better, right? And then there's also a value exchange with that. And so, meaning, like.

[00:15:26] it's also been fun, right, with business, where it's like, oh, wow, people are thanking me left and right, or doing this stuff, or people are, like, advocates for our product. There was a fiber internet company I worked in, outside of, Houston.

[00:15:39] For a little bit, and people were so…

[00:15:43] like, ecstatic about the brand and the company, that they would go door knock on their neighbors to say, hey, like, you should get this.

[00:15:50] like, we need this many people to petition to come through so that we can get, you know, this fiber internet, within our, you know, street, or our subdivision, or whatever. And they would create their own t-shirts to then come to events, and…

[00:16:05] Sometimes we would give them t-shirts and be like, alright, go talk to your neighbors, kind of thing. Like, that level of, again, culture and ability to, you know, help serve is just something that, I've seen. I've definitely done a lot of things, right? Like you shared in the intro, I've also just been curious, and I've just seized opportunity along the way.

[00:16:24] Well, one of the things you said that, that I really liked was it's about fulfilling… it's not about selling, it's about fulfilling needs, and one of my sayings is your customer needs will be fulfilled, hopefully by you.

[00:16:38] Totally. Yep.

[00:16:40] Yo.

[00:16:41] I mean, we could think of poaching too, right? Hey, what's another way to get customers? Hey, we're similar to us, like, how's that going? Oh, it's going okay. Well, would you like to have a conversation about how it could go differently? Yeah, I'd be open to it.

[00:16:53] Yeah.

[00:16:54] Yeah.

[00:16:56] Well, and it's… I mean, I think that's…

[00:17:00] It's… it's the key. I'm going through a current frustration with FedEx. They…

[00:17:07] they… and by your laugh, I guess you… you probably have had some, but they used to be such a great company, and they invented a whole industry that didn't exist. Now I can't get them to deliver packages to my house.

[00:17:22] Oh.

[00:17:22] They deliver them to another house three and a half miles away.

[00:17:25] Ugh.

[00:17:26] And they know they're doing it, their driver's telling them they're doing it, and there's nothing I can do to get it changed. And it's infuriating.

[00:17:34] And…

[00:17:36] the… the impact has been, not only do I not use FedEx, but I avoid, I avoid buying from people that ship via FedEx.

[00:17:46] But it's what you're talking about that

[00:17:50] there's a need. I have a simple need. When I order something, I want it to come to my doorstep, rather than somebody else's doorstep three and a half miles away. It's always the same house. They always take it to the same house. The…

[00:18:05] The guy in that house, I had a Sam's Club delivery that went there. The guy that lives in that house, when I walk up to the house to try to retrieve packages, I smell pot emanating from the house.

[00:18:16] And one time I had some food from Sam's Club delivered there, and apparently that was one day he had the munchies.

[00:18:23] You don't know.

[00:18:23] my food.

[00:18:25] But… They're failing, at least for me, they're failing because they're not fulfilling the customer needs.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:33] I mean, in the age of AI and automation, how do you get heard, right? How do you feel seen? How do you feel understood? And that is a…

[00:18:44] I mean, opportunity, right, to really get customer feedback, and also, you know, a detriment. Now, most of my career is basically within, software companies, working with feedback loops, customer onboarding, you know, data.

[00:18:58] Intelligence, if you will, to optimize… reduce cost of acquisition, increase lifetime value of customer, add additional products type of thing, right?

[00:19:07] And so that is then… just to say, like, especially in the age of AI and social media, like, what will the future then hold when it's like, no, no, no, I'm having this issue, and it's like, no, you're not having an issue. It's like, no, I'm…

[00:19:21] I am, right? Like, imagine being a child, even, and being like, hey, like.

[00:19:25] I need this, or I want this, and it's like…

[00:19:28] Not being able to, be heard or understood, like, those emotions are core things that, beyond just go to the service of what you need, but also just a recognition of who you are, as well.

[00:19:42] Yeah, and I think we… I think culturally, we're… we're having a pandemic of aloneness.

[00:19:50] you know, I think… I think that's why OnlyFans is a successful business. It's…

[00:19:58] I think, you know, there's a lot of businesses where people just feel alone, and if you can make… take that away.

[00:20:05] You know, for your customers, take that sense away from feeling alone, from feeling unheard.

[00:20:11] That's massive. I love… love the way you're thinking about that.

[00:20:15] Yeah, yeah, I mean, in some ways, it's also just service, you know, mindset, right? And just being… I mean, Paul Graham, the founder of Y Combinator, has an article that says, you know, do things that don't scale, right? That ability to send out personalized messages to people, right? Not just… the answer isn't automate everything, if you will. Because, I mean, there's different detriments to that, right? There are some things to automate, but…

[00:20:40] If you're talking to robots, sure. But, I mean, you're talking to people, like, at some point, you know, people just want people. No matter what your product or service is, they just want that reassurance, that connection.

[00:20:50] that, you know, facilitation. We weren't made to…

[00:20:54] talk to robots of sorts. They help us, certainly. But, you know, the generations before us

[00:21:02] didn't have it in our DNA to talk to robots, so…

[00:21:05] Yeah.

[00:21:06] So, what do you do for businesses now?

[00:21:09] Yeah, so just being a serial entrepreneur, going through the trials and challenges of scaling my own companies, maybe getting funding, looking what M&A is, all these things, I now work at EG Capital Holdings, which basically helps business owners reduce taxes.

[00:21:28] Then, once that…

[00:21:30] once those taxes are reduced, well, how can we reinvest them in the company? How could that maybe help support my personal lifestyle? And what that, you know, really looks like. So, really, it's just, if someone's an entrepreneur and they're, you know, have big dreams, and they find themselves through taxes, through, selling, or even through their own personal investments, like, feeling frustrated or stuck or annoyed on getting to that next level.

[00:21:55] we basically have a team that will come with and help create kind of the next season of life for you. There's a lot of, you know, small services that we can do, but I mean, those are the three main things.

[00:22:07] that we talk to business owners on, reducing taxes, optimizing your personal investments, and ensuring, you know, when you're looking to sell, or even, you know, the age-old pass, right? When you're looking to pass, we'll also do estate planning to ensure that your business and personal

[00:22:24] entities and the whole ecosystem are aligned. So it's kind of like founder's best friend, right? As you're scaling your company, you really have people who can help you along the way.

[00:22:34] Yeah.

[00:22:35] What are some… Where's some common…

[00:22:39] misperceptions or wrong beliefs that people have that you encounter that

[00:22:45] They keep them from doing the things they should be doing.

[00:22:49] So, truly, what we offer is, like, what's called a fractional family office service, and without going into all the detail of the different terminology of family office and all this stuff, it's really just to say, like, we provide a service as a team, right, as opposed to just an individual.

[00:23:07] And so, when I say the word family office, people think of, oh, a single family office who has $300 million plus. It's like, yes, that type of entity has all those people within their own company, yes.

[00:23:19] But my point is, like, there is a mindset of maybe an early 7-figure business owner, sometimes eight-figure business owners as well, where it's like, hey, I'm not good enough. I don't deserve that. I can't afford that. I shouldn't do that yet. There's all these, like, limitations that they are putting on themselves

[00:23:38] when in reality, it's like, no, no, no, you do need this. There's a guy in town, who has gone from one food truck to now four, and is now signing his first lease for,

[00:23:51] you know, a brick-and-mortar property. He's gone from $0 to $2.5 million in the span of, like, 2 years.

[00:23:57] And I was talking to him about this, and he was just like, no, my taxes are fine, my investments are fine, and, you know, I don't need any family office stuff. And it's like, you just said you have this pain point that… and you're unsure about this, but you also want to scale, but how…

[00:24:15] Like, have you scaled a business before? I mean, not to these levels. Okay, like, what does that look like going from 2 to 20? Oh, you want a 9-figure valued company? Like, have you done that before? And so, again, it's just kind of this idea and realization of, like.

[00:24:29] there's this, you know, proverb on, if you want to go, you know, far, like, go with others, right? But if you don't, like, you know, you'll go alone.

[00:24:40] that's truly what I see, is that people who go from, you know, 0 to 7 figures always do it themselves, typically, right? They don't really have, you know, a team around them to really scale, right? They just kind of have…

[00:24:54] they are dictating the rules to other people, they aren't having other people tell them what to do. As you go to 8, but especially going 8 to 9, you're hiring that CFO who's saying, hey, no, we need to do this. Why should we do that? Well, I have 20 years of experience, I've done this in 2 other companies, and I'm concerned about these two things. I think we need to do this, and we need to do this today. I actually already executed on it, and, like, I'll see you in the meeting next Tuesday, right?

[00:25:20] Thanks, right? Very different scenarios. But it takes that business owner that…

[00:25:25] awareness to really be, like, hey, like, they may not be the best… they may not be in the best role, they may not be the best fit, they may not have the best education, best experience, all these different things, right? But it's just, are you building a business, or are you helping serve more people, right? Is ultimately what I come down to. If you want to help serve more people.

[00:25:43] To go from 7 to 8 or 8 to 9.

[00:25:45] Here's kind of the playbook or ways to do it, and, you know, the ways that we can help.

[00:25:51] But ultimately, you're the one who is helping yourself. If you're not willing to do some of these things, like, your business will stay where it's at, your personal lifestyle will stay where it's at, so…

[00:26:03] Yeah.

[00:26:04] What are some of the top scaling… where's some of the challenges when somebody starts scaling?

[00:26:12] What are some things that they run into, you know, maybe business-wise, but also personally? What do they run into personally?

[00:26:19] I mean, I would really just say it's, like, the limits that we place on ourselves, for what we think is possible, and not thinking in 10x sort of results, and then also not playing to win the championship, if you will, as opposed to playing, you know, the game.

[00:26:35] Those are, I would say, the main starter points, because then everything else is true, right? If you don't believe it's possible and it can be done.

[00:26:43] Well, certainly it's not going to. A fish didn't climb a tree because it thought it was impossible. It did it because it had the skills, knowledge, and resources for it, too. It also had the belief that it could, right? So, as you picture just a fish climbing a tree, like, it's a, you know, crazy thought, right?

[00:27:00] But that is just… it had the belief, and then it executed on these things. And so that's really what I would say is, like, how business owners really kind of get stuck as first

[00:27:10] with themselves and what they believe is possible, and then… and even if they deserve it. And then it's more, how does it become? Is it because of your action? Is it because of someone else's action? And kind of the idea, and there's a book on this, right? But who, not how?

[00:27:24] who can help do it for you, who can do it alongside you, who can, you know, teach you how to do it. That's just, like, you know, basic principles. And then doing it, and seeing what happens.

[00:27:36] kind of step two and three, right? Because it could work out better than you could imagine, right? So…

[00:27:43] Well, and I think one of the fears that people have is as they scale and they're pulling in other people, you know, they have an identity that their… their fingerprint that they're trying to leave… leave on the business.

[00:27:54] Totally.

[00:27:55] And I think that's the fear. What would you say to those folks?

[00:27:59] Yeah, I mean, in some ways, it's just like, what are you optimizing for? There was a gentleman I'd interviewed, actually, on my podcast a couple weeks ago, he's had…

[00:28:10] He wanted to have a net worth of $40 million before he was 40, right?

[00:28:15] He's had a couple exits, one of which was a $350 million exit. Awesome guy,

[00:28:21] And he had a mentor of his who scaled the company from $0 to $2 billion share this idea of, hey, like, this isn't gonna be your only company. This isn't gonna be the only thing that you do.

[00:28:34] And, at least for him, that was true. And so that ability to really, like, remove, not even the emotion from it, but really just the awareness of, like, hey, there is more, more opportunity, more connection, more possibility, potential, maybe, you know, you do M&A with another company, whatever the situation is.

[00:28:53] That then means that, like, you're less attached to it, and then there's, you know, that opportunity, that thought of.

[00:29:00] Maybe taking private equity injection. Maybe selling.

[00:29:04] Maybe it's, you know, hiring a CEO, and you become a chief strategy officer. I've seen this firsthand, where, like, someone hired a CEO, they went chief strategy officer, which was kind of like a just, I don't know, makeshift sort of position of sorts. They really stayed in their zone of genius. That company tripled in 18 months.

[00:29:22] That person made more money than they have in their entire life. They still had, you know, majority share equity ownership of the company. They gave the CEO, you know, cliff standards in terms of how to, you know, earn equity.

[00:29:35] They got to spend more time with their family. They got to, you know, be again more in their zone of genius. All these things, right? And…

[00:29:43] they got to help more customers and clients, right? And so that, just, awareness on, you know, hey, I could be the absolute best, but I may not be the best to continue in this way, or down this path, or what would really help the business. A business is a living organism, and I think that's one thing I, you know, see is…

[00:30:02] Those that go from 7 to 8 are specifically,

[00:30:06] well, yeah, 6 to 7 for sure, but then also 7-8, they have such a chokehold and control of, like, no, this is fine, I did this, it's my toy, don't take it away. And it's like, well, what if you could share the toy with others? And they got enjoyment from it too, and, you know, all these type of, you know, childhood kind of thoughts, if you will, right?

[00:30:26] That… that is unlocking, truly what

[00:30:31] could be, and not what, is, because is has a ceiling. Could be is limitless. So that ability to change, you know, mindset, perspective, strategy, all these different things I said.

[00:30:44] that's really the difference maker, and there's more on the other side, so it's tough letting go of control, certainly, in a lot of ways. It's tough delegating in a lot of ways.

[00:30:53] But that ability is then, you know, growth, right? I have nieces and nephews, I don't have children, but certainly, same sort of idea. Let me delegate this out, do this, right? That also just means I would be a better leader as well. Hey, this is how you do this task.

[00:31:07] that person can then go do that task a thousand times, and you don't have to think about it again, right? You can obviously see how that builds momentum. And the last thing I'll say on this to finish this thought up, is something that was told to me by actually someone who lives here in Austin. He has been a CEO, COO for about 20 years, you know, mainly fractional.

[00:31:26] And he's like, I don't want to go into a company unless I have a badge or a gun, meaning that I could go to other C-suite or employees and say, hey, we need these things done by this sort of date or time, you know, is this realistic? How can I help support? Let's get it done. Hey, we had this deadline, it didn't happen, like, you know, why was that? And work through that. But the idea of just, like.

[00:31:47] let's just, you know, show up and try, really just isn't something that he drives with, and that's just something I've seen too, right? Like, if you're not driving results.

[00:31:56] then you're just participating, you're not winning. Or you're not even winning the championship, as well. And so, that's an interesting thing I think of as someone scaling.

[00:32:05] hire people and give them a, you know, badge and, you know, really authority to then say, hey, yes, what they say goes. Which.

[00:32:15] means you gotta hire really good people, right? Right. But, you know, that is then the crux. But when you do hire really good people, I mean, truly, the number of billionaires that I've met, they work 5-6 hours a day, they have the best integrators, they have the least sense of control. Hey, what do you think we should do? Great.

[00:32:34] they live their lives like children, being curious, you know, having others take responsibility, and not in a bad way, but in a meaningful way, right? Making strategic decisions, thinking about things, playing, being curious. Well, what if we did this? Type curiosity, right? Richard Branson certainly changed my mind when I met him.

[00:32:51] And try to live some of those principles each day, it's tough getting out of our own way, so…

[00:32:57] Yeah.

[00:32:58] Well, Paul, this is really cool. This is really interesting. And I love that…

[00:33:05] What's driven you for many… throughout your life is the entrepreneurial drive and the desire to serve other entrepreneurs.

[00:33:14] How can people reach you?

[00:33:16] I mean, LinkedIn's a good, you know, resource. I have a website called The Investor's Guide to Joy, where I have a newsletter, that, you know, talks, about kind of what I do, what I think.

[00:33:28] Also for those who are, like, looking to buy businesses as well, you know, that's a good resource. So you should be able to find me just about any social media platform. Paul H. Graham is typically how I am online, just because there's other Paul Grahams. But I'm in Austin, Texas, and yeah, would truly, genuinely want people to just reach out, even if it's just, hey, heard you on the show, right?

[00:33:51] In the age of AI and, you know, social media.

[00:33:54] that ability to connect, to be like, oh yeah, like, I listen to a lot of Craig shows. Amazing! Like, what else do you… you know, that's a conversation, that's a connection, that's a relationship. It's not just consumption or, transactional, so…

[00:34:08] Well, cool. Well, thanks for coming on Layers and Legacies.

[00:34:10] Thanks, Greg, appreciate the time.