In this empowering podcast, Johanna White delves into the heart of leadership and the essence of overcoming adversity. She shares her inspiring journey, showcasing how strategic visual branding can be a pivotal leadership tool in navigating the complexities of the business world. Johanna's narrative is a testament to the power of resilience, innovation, and purpose-driven leadership.

Johanna highlights the importance of embracing challenges as opportunities for growth, leading authentically, and the critical role of self-belief in achieving success. Her insights encourage listeners to leverage their unique strengths, push beyond traditional boundaries, and cultivate a legacy of impactful leadership. Johanna's story is not just about overcoming obstacles but about transforming them into steppingstones for building a more meaningful and successful career. This podcast is a beacon for aspiring leaders and entrepreneurs, offering valuable lessons on perseverance, strategic thinking, and the transformative power of effective branding in leadership.

Want to learn more about Johanna's work? Check out their website at https://www.designbyjostudio.com/.

Connect with Johanna on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/johanna-white-designbyjo/.

Key Points

• 00:01:18: Discussion on Johanna's career as a graphic designer and visual branding strategist, emphasizing the impact of first impressions.
• 00:04:55: Johanna recounts the turning point in her life, a sudden health crisis leading to paralysis and uncertainty.
• 00:08:29: She shares her mindset shift during her health crisis, focusing on resilience and determination to overcome fear.
• 00:10:59: Johanna's bold move to quit her job and start her own company despite the health and financial uncertainties.
• 00:15:09: The role of faith and mindset in Johanna's journey towards healing and overcoming her health challenges.
• 00:19:45: Insights into Johanna's recovery and the realization of the power of mindset and intentionality in healing.
• 00:22:40: Application of the lessons learned from her personal challenges to her business, emphasizing the importance of action and surrender.
• 00:24:02: Discussion on the essence of branding beyond logos and fonts, focusing on capturing one's unique value and perception in the world.
• 00:30:09: The importance of intentionality and consistency in branding, illustrating that a brand is much more than just visual elements.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:23:03
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome you, Johanna White. And you know those that know my story. Know that I shouldn't be here. You know I've been given a second chance at life. And, you know, Johanna is also such a person that. You know, I. When I asked her, I said, what? What do you want? And she said, you know, I feel like I've been given a second chance at life.

00:00:23:05 - 00:00:48:13
Craig Andrews
And I want inspire people with that. What a noble mission. So let me tell you a little bit about Johanna. although she has a German name, she was born here in America and, lives in Michigan. Johanna is an award winning graphic designer and visual branding strategist who designs premium brand ideas and these that create impact first impressions.

00:00:48:15 - 00:01:18:07
Craig Andrews
As the, the founder of Design by Joe Studio, she believes that if anyone if someone is the best at what they do, they deserve to look like it. For the last decade, she's worked with everyone from individuals to fortune 200 brands worldwide to help, magnetize their dream opportunity, clients and investors and be as delightfully expensive as they deserve to be.

00:01:18:09 - 00:01:47:22
Craig Andrews
you know what? That's a principle. Absolutely, love. If you're a coach, consultant, or whatever you do. My goal is for you to be the most expensive in your category, and that is. Sounds like that's Joanna. Yohannes goal. And we're going to learn about that here in a second. these days Johanna is on a mission to help others, other driven founders fully capture their uniqueness, level up their legacy, and embody their limitless potential.

00:01:47:24 - 00:01:50:12
Craig Andrews
Yuh welcome.

00:01:50:14 - 00:01:54:02
Johanna White
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

00:01:54:04 - 00:02:20:17
Craig Andrews
So, you know, we chatted probably way too much in the green room. and I'm just for those that are listening, you're in for a treat. This is just going to be an amazing, discussion. It's it's going to inspire you and, you know, let's let's kind of jump back to something, you know, just really.

00:02:20:20 - 00:02:27:19
Craig Andrews
Well, first off, let's, let's understand the name. So you have a German name, but you were born in America. What happened there?

00:02:27:21 - 00:02:46:20
Johanna White
I think my mom was just feeling like, you know, our family was a little too Midwestern looking, sounding John Tree. So Sarah had me, and she thought, you know what would be great? If no one could ever pronounce this baby's name right for the rest of her life. I would like to bless her with that. I'm just kidding.

00:02:46:21 - 00:03:07:12
Johanna White
My dad's name is John, and they wanted to name me after him. and so they picked the distant ancestral German background form of John, which is Johan, and went with Johanna. And, it's been a crapshoot ever since. As to when I meet someone, whether they will get it right. It usually depends on whether they heard it first or read it first.

00:03:07:14 - 00:03:11:24
Johanna White
If they read it first, most of them are going to pronounce it unless they're from Germany or South Africa.

00:03:12:01 - 00:03:32:17
Craig Andrews
Well, you know, that happened to me. I mean, I knew how to pronounce your name. but when when I was introducing you, sure enough, I say, Johanna. And it's just, you know, I spent, a lot of time in northern Europe, and I know when I see the J over there pronounce it like a Y, but it's it's hard, you know, in live it's context.

00:03:32:17 - 00:03:41:09
Craig Andrews
And so I, I would imagine that was really tough growing up and just constantly. No, that's not how my name is pronounced.

00:03:41:11 - 00:04:11:14
Johanna White
It was, it was a little bit, annoying. But you know, as a kid, it taught me when it mattered to correct someone and to stand up for something about yourself and your identity, or when it really didn't matter and it wasn't going to change the outcome. Honestly, I think the part that got me the most was I could never find my name on a keychain or an ornament, or a mug or sweatshirt or any of the like, cute girly things that the middle schooler to run around with their name on everything.

00:04:11:14 - 00:04:16:19
Johanna White
I'd go spin the little caddy at the shop and there was never ever. Yohanna.

00:04:16:21 - 00:04:46:17
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Wow. So, you know, you obviously write a little bit about my story and, you know, one of the, you know, for those that are listening and not viewing that, you know, I've got a big scar across my lip. And that's something that when I look in the mirror every day, it's a reminder that I shouldn't be here, you know, that I should have died back in August to September of 2021.

00:04:46:19 - 00:04:55:22
Craig Andrews
You've got a similar story, and honestly, I know almost nothing about it. So what happened?

00:04:55:24 - 00:05:27:23
Johanna White
Well, let's roll back the time. About ten years I was working in the design world, but at a very low level, marketing firm working a very low level marketing job. I was doing a little bit of branding, but not really not doing any work that mattered. I was in this toxic environment, but I was, thinking, I'll just stick this out for a while, and then eventually I'll go get another job and I'll go climb the ladder and I'll work my way to an agency in New York.

00:05:27:23 - 00:05:55:10
Johanna White
And I will take on the branding world that way, because I've got all the time in the world and I, up until that point, had pretty much let fear make all of the decisions in my life. I played it safe. I was the good girl. I did everything right. And, I made all my choices by minimal risk, which meant as far as success in life went, I was very mediocre.

00:05:55:12 - 00:06:18:13
Johanna White
because I didn't try. And I always had this feeling like I was capable of greatness and capable of more. but I was afraid to fail, so I didn't test the waters there. And then one night, out of the blue, I woke up with a pounding migraine that lasted for three days. And when it went away, I was left with sudden onset of paralysis down my left side.

00:06:18:15 - 00:06:42:16
Johanna White
Choking when I would try to swallow, couldn't really talk. Vocal chords were collapsed. Muscles along my neck and throat look like someone had scooped them out with an ice cream scoop. Just atrophied overnight, and I went from being physically very fit and strong and healthy. And again, having done everything right to suddenly my body has completely betrayed me.

00:06:42:16 - 00:07:04:22
Johanna White
And I don't know what just happened. And, we went to the ER where they ran a scope down my throat and then didn't find any obstacles. So they told me I was imagining it, that this was some sort of psychological issue. then down through an an ear, nose and throat person who kind of put the symptoms together as these have to do with your cranial nerves.

00:07:04:22 - 00:07:29:16
Johanna White
So he sent me to a neurologist who then sent me to a neurosurgeon. They have Cat scans and MRI's. And finally, after chasing that thing for more time than you would think it would take based on how life debilitating the symptoms were. a few weeks later, I get a call at like 8:00 at night and the doctor tells me we found a mass, and they didn't tell me much more than that.

00:07:29:16 - 00:07:47:07
Johanna White
And I asked all the questions because, again, I had I had spent the first part of my life controlling everything around me, and even if it didn't turn out great, at least I felt like I was in control of my outcomes. And so I want to know, what does this mean? Am I going to die? What can we do about it?

00:07:47:09 - 00:08:29:06
Johanna White
What's the next steps? All of this stuff. And he just had to keep telling me I don't know. The results are inconclusive. we need to do more tests. We need a brain biopsy, all of these things. And so that moment was the moment that my life went from safe, certain and totally like, just okay to completely flipped upside down, suddenly realizing I'm not actually in control of very much at all and spiraling into uncertainty and fear like I'd lived my whole first 25 years of my life in fear of nothing, fear of the future, fear of what could happen now.

00:08:29:06 - 00:08:57:07
Johanna White
Suddenly, I had a very real target for that fear, and I latched on to it and just went completely like, what is going to happen to me? but I discovered in that moment that I was also very resilient and very determined, and that was the kick in the pants that I needed to say, if I don't know how long I have left and I don't know if I'm going to live or die, and the doctors don't know if I'm going to live or die, and they don't know if they can help me.

00:08:57:07 - 00:09:16:16
Johanna White
And no one knows. Then I look around at my life. I look around at my job. I look around at what I'm doing and realize it can't. This can't be it. I cannot go out like this. I cannot die having left so much of me on the table. That is not okay. And thankfully.

00:09:16:18 - 00:09:25:12
Craig Andrews
Yeah, and let me jump in real quick. And maybe you're getting to this, this tumor, was it malignant or benign or.

00:09:25:14 - 00:09:49:10
Johanna White
The results are conclusive. Okay. They did a full brain biopsy drilled into my skull with a needle to find out that very thing. Is it malignant? Is it benign? And came back with. Oh, you know, the sample wasn't big enough, but we don't want to risk drilling it again. The results are still inconclusive. We could not find out a single helpful thing about this.

00:09:49:12 - 00:10:18:15
Johanna White
And so it started off where it feel like at that moment my life split into three parallel timelines. What was happening on the outside in the health area, the trips to the doctors, the MRI, the knowing or not knowing what was happening to my life and my heart and the sudden desire to live now or never and to step into what I was capable of now.

00:10:18:15 - 00:10:38:20
Johanna White
Because who knows if there is later and then what was happening on the third tier, which was under the surface, and that was from the mindset and spiritual level and different things were happening on each of them at the same time. So on the surface, I was bouncing from surgeon to surgeon. One would examine me, say, I don't know, it's kind of risky.

00:10:38:20 - 00:10:59:15
Johanna White
Maybe I can't help you. Maybe this guy can. They bounce me to the next one and take a good six months to get an appointment with that surgeon? Meanwhile, I'm like, I can't survive like this. on the work side, I quit my job two weeks after I was diagnosed. I walked out the door down the street and started knocking on business doors popped in my head in.

00:10:59:15 - 00:11:23:03
Johanna White
If someone was home that looked like they knew something about something and saying, hey, I'm Ohana, I design stuff. Do you need stuff designed and so literally like you Mary Kay, lady in my way, down, down, down. Finding freelance design work I started my company with a whopping eight hours of promised work on the clock. That was enough.

00:11:23:05 - 00:11:46:06
Johanna White
Filed the LLC. Like we are taking this by storm because I knew that I had two options. One, everyone was telling me to do, which was you can quit your job. You can go on Medicaid and let them pay for the mountains of debt. We're pretty sure you're about to accrue from your surgeries and medical bills hundreds of thousands or $1 million in surgeries.

00:11:46:08 - 00:12:06:20
Johanna White
probably better do that because you don't have great insurance and you need help. Or I knew that I could keep working as long as I was still able, but switch my focus to doing work that actually mattered. And that gave me something to look at besides just this, this fear and this focus of I'm sick, you know, also.

00:12:06:22 - 00:12:34:20
Craig Andrews
Well, and let me jump in. I mean, when you say, you know, millions of dollars, that people have trouble picturing that, but it is so incredibly real. I mean, I was in three hospitals. The first hospital I was in for about a, let's see, I left. I was there, a month and ten days, and my bill at the hospital was $1.2 million.

00:12:35:20 - 00:12:49:22
Craig Andrews
So it's easy. I mean, I just, I just want to emphasize that because when you start getting into some of these things, especially brain surgery, it gets expensive, quick and dumbfounding how expensive it is.

00:12:49:24 - 00:13:11:12
Craig Andrews
Yeah. The single brain biopsy for them to just drill in. And it took seconds or a minute. And the results were inconclusive. Just that tiny drill cost $10,000. You know, it's like that. And they don't have to succeed. They don't have to give you any new information for them to send a bill.

00:13:11:14 - 00:13:25:01
Craig Andrews
No. Yeah. Because and it's and it's, it's bills from three to at least three different people. You have a bill from the hospital. You have a bill from the ass, these geologist. And you have a bill from the surgeon.

00:13:25:01 - 00:13:54:04
Johanna White
Yep, yep. So with a very real possibility of those bills looming, people very well meaning in my life that you cannot quit, go on Medicaid, like get some help for this. This is going to be big. And I knew that that was a possibility. And I thought about it. And then I thought, if I do that, I like I believe I am going to be healed because I had started already working on the mindset spiritual side of this three tier platform, and I already believed I was going to be healed.

00:13:54:06 - 00:14:16:04
Johanna White
But I said, if I if I quit and do that, it's going to be 2 or 3 years later and I'm still going to be in the same place, maybe worse, because now not only will I not be like up to date in my skill set, but I will also just still be waiting for help to come. And I've been waiting for that my whole life.

00:14:16:04 - 00:14:42:22
Johanna White
I've been waiting for the perfect opportunity. I've been waiting to be seen, to be noticed, to be plucked out of the obscure design world and picked as someone who had what it takes. And I can't wait anymore. I need to do something about this so that on the other side of this tumor and this victory that I know is coming, there's a Johanna and she is a badass, and she's farther down the road than she is right now, and she's living the life she was meant to live.

00:14:42:22 - 00:15:09:00
Johanna White
She's doing what matters with the time she has left, and she's helping other people do the same. And so I quit my job. I started Designed by Joe, and then under the surface, the best part of this story was happening, which was, the day after I got diagnosed, I had an amazing friend of the family show up on my porch, hand me an iPad mini pre-loaded with, the obligatory Bible app and every verse he could find on healing.

00:15:09:02 - 00:15:32:17
Johanna White
And he said, this is tools for the battle, and we're going to fight. And he challenged me and he's like, it's like you. You said you believe in God. That's not the point. The point is, you said you believe something, but you're not acting like it. You said you believed you could be healed, but the word you're speaking and and the stories you're telling don't line up with what you say you believe.

00:15:32:19 - 00:15:57:03
Johanna White
And it's time for you to start acting like you actually believe what you say you believe. And I was like, wanting to punch him in the face and wanted to go lick my wounds and have a pity party and feel sorry for myself. Like for a while. Can't I just sit here and wait for some advocate to come in on their charger and help me figure out what they had to do next?

00:15:57:05 - 00:16:25:13
Johanna White
And he does challenge me, and he's like the third chance to start acting like you believe what you say you believe. And so I started changing the way that I spoke. I didn't not tell people that something with going on, but instead of owning it and instead of claiming it and saying, instead of saying, I'm sick or I have a brain tumor, I would say the doctors say that the doctors found that and just let it be the the current evidence, but not my story, you know, and I got.

00:16:25:15 - 00:16:50:07
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And let me, let me jump in there because there's a place where that really resonates with me. I, you know, my, my lungs were trashed by the ventilator. Ventilators are horrible, horrible things. And pulmonologist, when did me go get a CT scan? And I asked her, I said, how will the results of the CT scan change my treatment?

00:16:50:07 - 00:17:16:15
Craig Andrews
She said it won't as I don't want it. I have never gotten a CT scan because I don't want some doctor to tell me that my lungs are permanently damaged and I can't recover. It's I don't want to let that thought in my head. Yes, all and I still I'm not there. I mean, I get it hypoxic and dizzy anytime I work out, but it sounds like, you know, the same thing you're talking about.

00:17:16:17 - 00:17:29:10
Craig Andrews
That shift in mindset of not not being, you know, not accepting some, you know, inevitability that the doctors have declared over you.

00:17:29:12 - 00:17:52:19
Johanna White
Yeah, it was exactly that. I started changing the inputs that came in. I got careful what I listened to, even music and news and anything that just sent me into a spiral of fear. I did not spend time on Google or WebMD searching the symptoms. At least not. I maybe fell down that rabbit hole once, but then very quickly went, nope, I cannot let this in.

00:17:52:19 - 00:18:09:13
Johanna White
And the other thing I can't focus on is stories of people who I thought had faith, and it didn't work for them because that's what we want to focus on. We want to collect evidence before we've even had a chance. Of all the people I didn't work for, this is same in business. It's the same in any area of your life.

00:18:09:13 - 00:18:33:22
Johanna White
It's like we are hardwired for collecting evidence of misery and failure. Three times more, our brain will take it and three times more than we'll take in joy or positivity. Or that it can work. And so I had to shut that down. And then I had to get super intentional about what I put in, and I didn't care who was saying it or exactly what they were saying, as long as it was saying that healing is possible.

00:18:33:24 - 00:18:52:17
Johanna White
I just played it on my headphones all day long because I had this hamster wheel of fear thoughts just spiraling in my head. You're going to die, you're going to die. You're going to die, you're going to die, you're going to die. You're going to die. And I couldn't seem to shut it off. No matter how many times I told myself not to be afraid, it was there and it was all I could focus on.

00:18:52:17 - 00:19:15:08
Johanna White
And the more I focused on it, the worse the symptoms got and the more I noticed them. Like, I quickly realized early on that I would go from almost choking to thinking about how I was sick and thinking about the brain tumor and be instantly like passed out on the bathroom floor, throat closed completely because I noticed it and I focused on it.

00:19:15:10 - 00:19:45:06
Johanna White
And so I had to do something to take my focus off of the problem and not ignore it. Not head in the sand about it, but simply change where I was looking. And so I started putting in any input that talked about healing, letting that in, and amazing things started happening. My body started getting better and better and better and better, and my symptoms that they said would never recover even if I got surgery started coming back, nerve damage, things that they're like, even if we chip the tumor out, these nerves are shot.

00:19:45:11 - 00:20:02:06
Johanna White
So this problem is going to stick with you forever. Sorry about you. Those got better and better and better, and you would think that would be enough for me. End of story. I'm moving on. Sheath healed. But I wanted certainty. I wanted to know, and I wanted to be in control. And I wanted to do something where I would.

00:20:02:08 - 00:20:17:07
Johanna White
I thought I'd never have to think about this tumor ever again. And so I kept going to the doctors, and they kept doing MRI, and they kept telling me, well, it's like the same or bigger. We're not quite sure because we used a different machine. And, but do you still need help on this? But we can't help you.

00:20:17:07 - 00:20:44:00
Johanna White
Maybe someone else can. And I would go into that appointment full of faith, knowing that I had been changing my mind and it was changing my life, and that I was believing and it was working and lead with this new evidence. Like you said, you studiously avoided. And I'm very proud of you for that, because I would leave with this new evidence on paper, on an MRI, that I still wasn't healed, and I would go home, mostly healed, and wake up the next morning with all of my symptoms back.

00:20:44:02 - 00:21:09:20
Johanna White
Just like that, because our minds are so powerful. And so it took me a couple of visits before I finally figured out that I needed to stop. Like going after concrete evidence and let that go and instead just say nope, I am being healed. I can see it in my body by the way. Kind of like yours. They said, we're not going to do anything about these MRI eyes.

00:21:09:21 - 00:21:29:10
Johanna White
We're just going to watch and wait. We're going to put you on the watch and wait. Yeah. And and we're only going to do surgery if, your symptoms get this much worse. And I was like, so you're watching my symptoms? Not this paper. Funny. I was watching my symptoms get better and better and better. But I kept asking for this paper.

00:21:29:15 - 00:21:58:17
Johanna White
And when I asked for the paper, it told me I'm not okay. And I listen to it. And I went back down. And so I finally got smart, walked away and said, all right, you said, you can't hurt me any way. Why am I still trying desperately clinging to control. I need to surrender this and trust. And so when I look back at that part of my life, I realized that the success and healing which, by the way, completely healed, don't have the paper to prove it.

00:21:58:17 - 00:22:23:04
Johanna White
But my body is back 100% has been for the last eight years. when I look back at that part of my life, I realize it was a combination of massive action and then massive surrender, doing everything I knew how to do about changing my inputs, changing my thoughts, but then letting go of the outcome and realizing I actually wasn't in charge and wasn't in control.

00:22:23:06 - 00:22:40:22
Johanna White
And I took that. And then I took my learning about that. It's really important to do something about what you believe, not just believe it, and applied both of those to building my business. And I think both of those principles are very responsible for where it is today.

00:22:40:24 - 00:23:10:10
Craig Andrews
What an incredible story. And. The, well, and it encourages me, encourages me to keep because I'm, you know, tears out my, you know, I still have, you know, I still have issues with my lungs and it's in you encouraged me to just keep pushing and working towards full health and just not accepting that this is my fate.

00:23:10:12 - 00:23:20:01
Craig Andrews
So thank you for that. So you mentioned your business. What what is your business? It's designed by Joe Studio. What is designed by Joe.

00:23:20:03 - 00:24:02:02
Johanna White
Designed by Joe is branding from a big picture. And when people hear branding, some of them think, well, maybe that's your logo, maybe that's your fonts, maybe that's your colors, maybe it's even your website. But your brand is actually how you are perceived in the world. And that is what I help my clients with, which is why I say I take people who are the very best at what they do, and finally make them look as good as they are, so that the people that they want to work with can understand and know and be that intangible assets that makes them freaking amazing and delivering their services and can line up, become raving fan clients,

00:24:02:02 - 00:24:25:19
Johanna White
and be so excited to pay them top dollar for those services because they can finally see the value. Your brand is a visual validation of your value, and with my clients that the areas that I focus on is everywhere from their messaging, which is really about knowing their value. So most people think a brand is just showing, right?

00:24:25:21 - 00:24:48:13
Johanna White
Show and tell words and pictures, but you can't show what you don't know. So until you actually know what makes you the best at what you do and why, people should work with you and not someone else, your visual brand isn't saying anything, and a picture's not actually worth a thousand words. It's just noise. But once you know your value, then you can get into showing it.

00:24:48:19 - 00:25:11:23
Johanna White
And so we we know it. We write the messaging, get really clear on what makes them unique, and then we create visuals that tell that story. So it personal brand styling is how they show up in the world. It's it's even, hair and makeup and clothing styles. And then we plan a photoshoot based on the story that they want to tell.

00:25:11:23 - 00:25:37:12
Johanna White
And so we we begin with the end in mind with their brand is like, how do you need to be seen in the world? And I believe a truly authentic personal brand lives at the intersection of who you are, with your clients and who you are on a Saturday when the cameras stop rolling. And if it's not both, it's going to feel like you're putting on a suit of armor.

00:25:37:17 - 00:25:39:20
Johanna White
Every time you go out.

00:25:39:22 - 00:25:40:06
Craig Andrews
You just.

00:25:40:07 - 00:25:41:23
Johanna White
It's like you just.

00:25:42:00 - 00:26:03:07
Craig Andrews
Yeah, you just said something incredibly powerful that I think, I see it all the time. People put out. They're like, well, we we have to let the world see us this way. And what you're saying is, you have to be who you show yourself to be it. Am I capturing that correctly?

00:26:03:07 - 00:26:25:21
Johanna White
Yeah. Yeah, it absolutely is. You've got to know your value. You got to show your value. But then the step three that I help my clients with, and I think is one of the secret ingredients that so many places are missing, is they have to live their value. Like you create a brand around your uniqueness and the depth that you have to give to the world, not around what you think the world wants.

00:26:25:23 - 00:26:56:11
Johanna White
And so already it's going to be something that's sustainable and exciting and alive and you feel amazing. Step into it. But then once we show that brand and we we capture photos of you like at your highest, and we capture the message that you want to tell, and we put it out there in the world on a website on pitch that on social media now, you're accountable to actually level up and live up to that brand that you've said you wanted to be.

00:26:56:13 - 00:27:21:00
Johanna White
And so it's fits really powerful combination. Three strands of discovering like what makes you special. And yet you want to know what your ideal client is looking for. But if they're looking for something that's really out of alignment with who you are and how you want to deliver what you do, are they actually your ideal client, or do you just think they're a great client?

00:27:21:02 - 00:27:40:03
Johanna White
And it's going to be like gritting your teeth to go to work with them every day. Maybe you pick them because you think they're people who pay top dollar for something, but working with them does not bring you joy, does not light you up, and neither one of you are going to be happy with the experience. So you're not going to end up with a raving fan client.

00:27:40:03 - 00:27:59:17
Johanna White
You're going to end up with another met. Yeah, it was okay. Quiet. And so they need to know their value, show the value, and then they got to live their value and become and live their brand in the world. For it to be something that really rockets them to the top.

00:27:59:19 - 00:28:14:18
Craig Andrews
So what when you say to somebody, if somebody came up and said, Johanna, look, the brand I just need, I need a logo, I need fonts, I need colors. That's a brand. How would you respond to that?

00:28:14:20 - 00:28:40:09
Johanna White
Well, most of the time I say thank you. Next. Because I know that they are not my client. Because my client is someone who realizes that there's more to their brand and that it can support their business in so many ways if it's truly capturing them. and someone who just wants a logo, colors and fonts is probably not my client.

00:28:40:09 - 00:28:59:18
Johanna White
So I would say that, but I would still talk to them and say, okay, you think you just need a logo, colors and fonts? Well, what should that logo look like? What should those colors be? What do you think? What do you think you need and they're like, I don't know. I mean, purple is pretty and dogs are cool.

00:28:59:20 - 00:29:23:21
Johanna White
What if we made a purple dog? And then I would have to explain to them that you are about to just add digital noise to a crazy world, because you didn't tell me that dogs communicate something about the way that you work with your clients, or that they somehow help. communicate you to the world. It's just something you thought was pretty and you'd like.

00:29:23:23 - 00:29:43:02
Johanna White
Great brands. I have discovered over the last decade of doing this that great brands have two things in common. They have intentionality and they have consistency. And a lot of people think that all they need is consistency. I need to decide on colors, logo, font, this, and then I just need to put it the same way everywhere so that I'm recognized.

00:29:43:02 - 00:30:09:05
Johanna White
And that's half true. But you can be consistently bad, consistently unappealing, and consistently bland. But a great brand has intentionality. There is a reason behind everything that they create, and every piece of marketing that they put out in the world that's leveraging their brand is telling a story. It's communicating an emotion. It is evoking emotion in the hearts of the customers that want to work with them.

00:30:09:07 - 00:30:34:19
Johanna White
And so if this person said, I just need logos, colors and fonts, they'd probably leave feeling they just like ran away from one of Johanna's soap boxes or or they would be like many clients who say, whoa, okay, that's what I need, because I thought that maybe there was just something with my website because it's not converting and and people are coming to it, but leaving.

00:30:34:21 - 00:30:50:18
Johanna White
And so I thought maybe you could move a few boxes around, change the color, change the font, and that it would solve it. But what it was really missing on their website was the brand was that emotion was that place of belonging for the people they want to work with.

00:30:50:18 - 00:31:04:07
Craig Andrews
Enough now. So I that and that's a really it's really important. I think people need to hear that. And I promised you a curveball and,

00:31:04:09 - 00:31:09:14
Johanna White
I've been on the edge of my seat, even though I'm standing on the edge of my toes.

00:31:09:16 - 00:31:47:01
Craig Andrews
So there's a there is a company, you know, it, I guarantee you. Anybody listening to this podcast knows the company that's, multi-billion dollar company. And they were working on logo design and the multiple people who are the designer and, you know, some other people brought logo concepts to the CEO. And he rejected every one of them. And one night, the designer's nine year old daughter, I believe, drew something on the computer and the designer showed it to the CEO of the company.

00:31:47:03 - 00:31:59:19
Craig Andrews
I don't think intending him to adopt it, just saying, hey, look what my daughter drew. And he looked at it and he said, that's our new logo. Do you know who I'm talking about?

00:31:59:21 - 00:32:11:15
Johanna White
I don't feel me in GoDaddy. GoDaddy, you remember? Logo was just words, right? Is a different.

00:32:11:17 - 00:32:41:12
Craig Andrews
well, they changed it. So, you know, Bob Parsons brought it, sold it to private equity. And, you know, they've gone in and kind of sanitized, GoDaddy. But the thing that built GoDaddy up to a multi-billion dollar business was a logo of, of some crazy dude with stars for eyes and, squiggly little hair, you know, look like a, a crazy cartoon character.

00:32:41:14 - 00:32:59:00
Craig Andrews
And that was the logo that took him to a multi-billion dollar business designed by a nine year old. Not professional in the least. And so it's I'm just curious, as somebody who lives and breathes branding, what's what's your take on that?

00:32:59:02 - 00:33:27:07
Johanna White
How does that even happen? Well, my take is kind of tying back to what I just said. Like, your brand is so much more than just a logo, and the logo can support it. And I think it's still worth paying attention to. But your logo is not your brand. It's just the image that triggers people's brains to think about your brand when they see it in the wild.

00:33:27:09 - 00:34:04:03
Johanna White
And so it can be good, or it can be terrible, but it's what the rest of your brand is communicating that really matters. That logo is just a trigger point, and I would rather the trigger point be great, but as evident, it clearly is not the thing that got them there. And you've got to then dig into, their marketing efforts, their ad, like, what were the things that they used to communicate the brand and what was the message they were putting out?

00:34:04:03 - 00:34:25:02
Johanna White
I'm sure it was more than just a starry eyed guy. They were saying things. They were doing things. So there was so much more than just the logo. but that just goes to show how much it's not your brand. And yet another reason why when someone comes and says, I just need a logo, colors and fonts and that'll be my brand, I know that that is not true, you know?

00:34:25:02 - 00:34:55:18
Craig Andrews
And there was something you said a few minutes ago that I think actually ties into this. She's you said that the brand exists at the intersection of who you are at work and who you are on the weekend. And Bob Parsons, who founded GoDaddy, it's kind of a wild guy. And there was something when he saw that logo, it was the designers, the designer, his nine year old daughter who drew what she thought Bob Parsons look like in her mind the way.

00:34:55:20 - 00:35:21:08
Craig Andrews
And it's like, that's kind of a wild dude. And it was. And he he kind of ran the company like a madman. He ran it very well, made tons of money, but he kind of ignored a lot of the conventions. And so, you know, based on what you were saying earlier, I would say that that logo actually was a part of the intersection between who Bob Parsons was at work and who he was weekend.

00:35:21:10 - 00:35:48:19
Johanna White
And it probably did a good job of helping eliminate or frighten away the kinds of clients that are not, his customer and attract the kind of slightly weird, creative, you know, people that are. And so maybe it was the perfect logo for them. And note that when I said earlier, great brands have two things in common consistency and intentionality.

00:35:48:21 - 00:36:15:10
Johanna White
I did not say beauty. Yeah, a great brand does not have to be beautiful. In fact, it can be messy. It can be almost ugly, dirty, grungy. There are some super high end luxury brands right now. think about the clothing world. Think about, I don't know if you ever see any ads for Gucci or really just fashion at the moment.

00:36:15:12 - 00:36:42:19
Johanna White
And it is not necessarily beautiful in many regards, but it is intentional. They are communicating a message. They are starting a movement. They are they are creating a vibe. And there are people that are vibing with that. And so, just because it's telling what you need to tell, it doesn't mean it has to be pristine, elegant, clean lines, beautiful.

00:36:42:19 - 00:37:06:10
Johanna White
It doesn't have to be Apple. There's a whole lot of brands that got where they were going by doing it different and by capturing an audience that felt unseen and messy. And GoDaddy would probably be a great example of that. And I think I think either that logo was before my web development, Dave, or I have just gotten so used to the words only that I completely forgot.

00:37:06:10 - 00:37:09:20
Johanna White
But I really, really love that that case study.

00:37:09:22 - 00:37:30:01
Craig Andrews
Well, they, you know, so at one point Bob wanted to move on. He, and so he brought in the private equity guys, and, you know, they brought in their own CEO and, you know, private equity guys did what they did. They were like, they they looked at GoDaddy and they're like, this whole mess. This is just too wild.

00:37:30:01 - 00:37:52:23
Craig Andrews
We need to become, you know, mainstream and what have you. And and you know what's really interesting I used to look forward to, you know, if I had a problem and GoDaddy could help me solve it, I look forward to calling them. It was a delightful experience. They ran all of their customer service out of Arizona. Phenix area.

00:37:53:00 - 00:38:16:02
Craig Andrews
And today I have to call GoDaddy about something, and I'm completely dreading it. I don't know if I'm going to get somebody who speaks English natively. I, you know, they've they've lost their passion. It's not the exciting company that used to be, the company they used to be with, somebody that I knew would go above and beyond to help me solve my problems.

00:38:16:02 - 00:38:30:13
Craig Andrews
And they were fun and they were exciting. And I think that was captured and when the private equity guys came in, they're like, well, we're going to bring this brand to a new level. And they've taken all passion out of the brand.

00:38:30:15 - 00:38:57:01
Johanna White
Yeah, they've taken the authenticity and the uniqueness and and the fun. Yeah. And that's a shame. They're no longer living like they're no longer creating a brand experience that you want to be a part of. They're no longer creating a brand experience that lines up with what they're claiming, because they're probably still claiming great customer service around the clock support 24/7, all of that things.

00:38:57:03 - 00:39:20:16
Johanna White
But that's not what you're experiencing. Which means when it comes to the third part of that, the living, the brand, it's falling apart. And that is when a company starts a decline, when like, you can have a great visual brand, put it out in the world, do amazing job, but what you deliver and how you deliver it doesn't communicate that same sense of emotion and loyalty and and spark that fun.

00:39:20:18 - 00:39:27:24
Johanna White
Then it's smoke and mirrors and those kind of businesses might get customers quickly, but they lose them just as quickly.

00:39:28:01 - 00:39:48:01
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, John, this has just been absolutely delightful. I could talk for another hour. we're we're way over our normal, time. But this has been a valuable discussion. I think you've had a ton of value to folks. I. And, I hope people will reach out to you. How can people contact you?

00:39:48:03 - 00:40:16:16
Johanna White
Well, the best way is to visit my website, designed by Joe studio.com, and just book a free brand console. And let's talk about, you when you're ready to level up your legacy. And if you're just interested in hanging out with me, following along, watching my travels with my clients to exotic places to build their brands, you can find me on Instagram and it is at Design by Joe Studio.

00:40:16:18 - 00:40:19:23
Craig Andrews
Well, thank you for being on Leaders and Legacies.

00:40:20:00 - 00:40:25:17
Johanna White
Thank you for having me. And thank you for this fun conversation.