John Hewitt, a visionary entrepreneur, shares his journey of building two top retail chains, revealing the essence of impactful leadership. His story, marked by resilience and innovation, emphasizes the pivotal role of exceeding customer expectations and valuing employees. Hewitt’s strategic mindset, focusing on long-term customer relationships and market adaptation, propelled his companies to significant growth, even during economic downturns. His leadership philosophy extends beyond business, impacting lives through his dedication to philanthropy and community support.

Hewitt’s insights offer a masterclass in creating a legacy of leadership that transcends individual success, advocating for a business ethos where principle always trumps policy, ensuring decisions align with core values and the greater good. His narrative is a testament to the power of principled leadership in fostering loyalty, driving innovation, and building enduring brands.

Want to learn more about John's work? Check out their website at https://loyaltybrands.com.

Connect with John on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-t-hewitt-9917b7149/.

Key Points with Time Stamps:

• [00:00:30-00:02:03]: Craig Andrews introduces John Hewitt and discusses his achievements with Jackson Hewitt and Liberty Tax Services.
• [00:02:03-00:06:00]: Hewitt shares the challenges and strategies behind his business success, emphasizing the importance of innovation and customer focus.
• [00:06:00-00:10:08]: Discussion on the critical role of employee and franchisee satisfaction in building a successful business model.
• [00:10:08-00:15:00]: Hewitt elaborates on his customer service philosophy and its impact on long-term business growth.
• [00:15:00-00:19:15]: Insights into Hewitt’s approach to business expansion and market share acquisition during economic recessions.
• [00:19:15-00:24:03]: Hewitt’s unique marketing strategies and the importance of differentiating from competitors.
• [00:24:03-00:30:48]: The significance of principled leadership and maintaining a clear set of values in business.
• [00:30:48-00:35:16]: Hewitt discusses his charitable work and the ethos behind his philanthropic efforts.
• [00:35:16-00:41:55]: Closing thoughts on leadership, customer satisfaction, and the future of business in challenging economic times.

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment of my career.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on the show.

00;00;51;10 - 00;01;20;29
Craig Andrews
If you don't know today's guest, you certainly know at least one of his companies. John Jambo, a national brand. And to prove that wasn't mere chance, he built another one in the same exact space. Now, I'll tell you, there are a lot of reasons to clear the distractions and focus on today's show. Personally, I'm looking forward to learning some lessons from this leader who made lightning strike twice.

00;01;21;01 - 00;02;03;09
Craig Andrews
And so you you seen here it wasn't luck. John charged into the eye of the storm, sees the lightning from the clouds and hurled at the ground and didn't happen easily. And in the process, he made over a thousand millionaires. Today's guest is John Hewitt. You probably know him of Jackson Hewitt Tax Services or Liberty Tax Services. He was born in 1949, in Detroit and has, started off on the corporate path, with H&R block, but then at one point decided it was time to branch off and start his own business.

00;02;03;12 - 00;02;30;07
Craig Andrews
And that's when, those were the early days that led to Jackson Hewitt. he's a pioneer in the development and use of, decision tree tax preparation software, which is now the industry standard. And you'll find out that he led the industry. I head of the IRS, which really poised him for growth. And he's also the author of the book, I Compete How My Extraordinary Strategy for Winning Can Be Yours.

00;02;30;09 - 00;02;33;05
Craig Andrews
John, welcome to Leaders and Legacies.

00;02;33;07 - 00;02;36;03
John Hewitt
Craig, it's great to be here. Thanks for having.

00;02;36;05 - 00;03;03;15
Craig Andrews
So, you know, it's been interesting as as I've been preparing for the interview, I've talked. I've taken an informal poll of some people I know, and I'll ask, do you know, have you heard of Jackson Hewitt Tax Services? And they're like, yeah, of course. And so have you heard of Liberty Tax Services? And they're like, yeah, of course I've yet to find somebody that didn't know both of those brands.

00;03;03;15 - 00;03;34;29
Craig Andrews
And I know you have more brands than that, but I think that's extraordinary. And the you know, I've worked around highly successful people who went off, started a big enterprise generated, you know, half $1 billion of wealth for themselves and then went and started something else. And it never really amounted to much. So I'm really impressed that you did not just once, but twice in your continuing to do it.

00;03;35;01 - 00;03;43;06
Craig Andrews
Kind of starting with the end in mind, with how does somebody do that? Predictably.

00;03;43;08 - 00;04;20;12
John Hewitt
Well, I'm the only one that's founded two of the top 100 retail chains in the country. So so there's no one else that can answer that question, right? It's a, but both journeys where were fun and, and a learning experience, you know, after I built Jackson Hewitt for 15 years, then, if if you run something and you build it from nothing and it becomes $1 billion company, Jackson, it became $1 billion company.

00;04;20;14 - 00;05;05;03
John Hewitt
If in that process you don't learn a lot, you're an idiot, right? So the second time, in a way, was more difficult because I had to compete after my non-compete ran out with Jackson Hewitt, I had to compete with my own name and my own software and my own system and my own people. And yet, there was a there was room for a number three where I, I was, I, I was in was being in an industry that only had one dominant player when I started competing with H&R block and in 1982, they had 9000 locations and the second largest had 200.

00;05;05;05 - 00;05;32;22
John Hewitt
It's very obvious to me, and should be obvious to everyone that there's a huge void there. There's always a Burger King, right? There's always a number two player in every industry. There's no industry that's dominated by one player. So there was room for a second player and Jackson, you came along and and grew to 6000 locations and H&R block still had 9000.

00;05;32;22 - 00;06;00;10
John Hewitt
Today. They have about 9000 in the United States. And Jackson knew a grid of 6000. And then there no one had more than 230. So there's always room for a third player. There's always a Wendy's, there's always McDonald's and Burger King and Wendy's. There's always a Wendy's. So there was an opportunity for to create in that particular industry to the second largest and the third largest competitors.

00;06;00;12 - 00;06;31;03
John Hewitt
That doesn't exist in many industries where there's only 1 or 2 or 1 or 2, large national players. So I was in the right place at the right time. And, the, the others did not keep up with the times. And I've always believed that my job as a franchise war is to give you the best system, and to have the best system, it has to be an evolving system.

00;06;31;06 - 00;07;06;24
John Hewitt
So each of the other two companies that I was competing with when I was with Liberty Tax, both H&R Block and Jackson Hewitt, the founders had left me being one of them, of course, and corporate manager suits came in and took over, and they weren't committed to evolve and improve. Satisfactory. They had no entrepreneurship leadership. And so that's what has has been catapult me into being successful.

00;07;06;27 - 00;07;16;21
John Hewitt
yeah. Liberty tax and again, building a, a company that became a half a billion. Now a public company with over 4000 locations.

00;07;16;24 - 00;07;45;10
Craig Andrews
You know, John, one of the problems that have in this discussion is trying to figure out which of the things to take to which are the directions to take, because you've got so much rich in what you're saying. but one of the things that you said right there was how the how the suits come in, I call them the MBAs or the, you know, the private equity guys and my wife, my wife used to work for a company.

00;07;45;10 - 00;08;05;25
Craig Andrews
I'm not going to mention their name. One on their because they're they're a nationally known brand. Everybody listening knows their brand. I don't want besmirch them because they were really nice to my wife when I was in the hospital, and they thought I was dying. They, you know, they, they paid her full time and told her to work half time, and that was lovely.

00;08;05;27 - 00;08;20;00
Craig Andrews
But when I got out of the hospital, she said, hey, there's a rumor that private equity guys are taking over. And I said, well, if they do, the first thing they're going to do is cut customer service.

00;08;20;03 - 00;08;35;04
John Hewitt
Absolutely. That's, that's the mantra is, cut costs, save money and put financial short term financial gain. I had a long term customer service.

00;08;35;07 - 00;08;48;18
Craig Andrews
Now I've I've read your book and I compete and it came across that customer service is not just an interest of yours, but it's a passion.

00;08;48;20 - 00;09;13;26
John Hewitt
Absolutely. And I have a, you know, I've evolved over the years. It started out I started out in the 60s and 70s, customers number one, customers number one. And then in that, along came the 80s, 90s, more in the 90s with people like, Sam Walton and Herb Kelleher of Southwest Air. And they said, no, no, no.

00;09;13;26 - 00;09;49;05
John Hewitt
If you want your customers to be treated as number, what you have to treat your employees is number one. And then along came franchising and said, in addition to that, you have to treat your franchisees as number one. So my my success has been solely attributable to happy, successful employees, happy, successful, franchisees, which creates, customers that we specialize in exceeding their expectations.

00;09;49;08 - 00;10;08;27
Craig Andrews
When I heard an example that you gave in your book and it was, you know, a customer came in, they were upset. And I think your staff was debating what to do. And for you, the response was immediate make the customer happy, even if it causes a short term loss.

00;10;08;29 - 00;10;40;18
John Hewitt
Absolutely. Yeah. There. I'll give you a, an example. my my people, especially in, most of my career, has been attacked corporations. So most of my stories are related to preparing to extras. But these two sisters came in back in about 1976, and the average speed back then was about 15 or $20. And, and, they, one of the sisters had interest income of like 40 pounds.

00;10;40;21 - 00;11;06;17
John Hewitt
While that required an extra statement on a tax return you back then you had to add a statement. And so, I was at H&R block, we added a fee. So once sisters, they both had worked at the same place, had the same approximate W-2, but one had this $4 of interest income. So one tax term was $15 and the other was $17.50.

00;11;06;19 - 00;11;39;21
John Hewitt
They went home and the sister that called up that paid 1750 said, I'm upset. Our tax rates are exactly the same tax, exactly the same amount of time to do them. Two different repairs did that. Why was mine $2.50 more? And the office adviser tried to explain it to her, and the sister didn't buy it. So I said, give her her tax term for free, give her the whole 1750 for free.

00;11;39;24 - 00;12;05;00
John Hewitt
And so she, the office adviser, said, no, no, no. Not only will they go out and tell, she's going to tell her sister, we'll call and complain and she'll want her $15 back. And then they'll tell all their friends. And I said, just do it. And, sure enough, there was, they they never complained again. They came in for decades later.

00;12;05;02 - 00;12;33;19
John Hewitt
But not only did I benefit from, exceeding a customer's expectation and getting decades of these from from the sisters and refer I got referrals. But what? There was a added benefit that I hadn't thought about that from then on, when that office supervisor had a problem, she learned quickly that the customer had a problem, no matter if it was our fault or not.

00;12;33;21 - 00;12;59;00
John Hewitt
I would always say, I'm sorry. There's I'm sorry there's been a problem, that you had a problem. And I would always start out by apologizing. Even if the taxpayer was 100% right. And so soon, within a few months and years, she became my favorite. I'm say, no problem. Got to me. She would solve the problem. She became a problem solver with my philosophy in that office.

00;12;59;06 - 00;13;18;22
John Hewitt
And she had one of the biggest offices, Little Corning, New York, had one of the top 100 biggest offices in the country because of her incredible customer service. And we just, we honor our money back guarantee. Most companies try to argue their way out of.

00;13;18;24 - 00;13;43;11
Craig Andrews
Yeah. You know, and so we're recording this in 2024 and there's a lot of debate about you know is the economy strong and growing is shrinking. I look at the consumer and I look at the life of the people I talk to. And there's at the very least scared. And I can picture where it would be easy for an organization to say, you know what?

00;13;43;11 - 00;13;59;13
Craig Andrews
This year we're going to cut back on customer service when the economy turns around. Then we'll start investing in the customer service. Then. Do you think that's good advice? What would you advise them? Do?

00;13;59;15 - 00;14;23;15
John Hewitt
Well, first of all I believe in lifetime value of a customer. Not not 2024 version of a customer. I believe in the lifetime value of a customer, and my customer tend to stay with me 7 to 10 years on average. And so that's what I'm looking at. I don't I'm not looking to, monetize today and lose tomorrow.

00;14;23;17 - 00;15;00;07
John Hewitt
I'm not willing to take that chance or that gamble. And plus I get all the referrals from every customer. It's going within every 4 or 5 years going to refer another customer to me. So and and what I found is that and in my 54 years of experience, I've been through about 5 or 6 recessions, including the Great Recession and during recessions, great companies grab more market share than when times are good, because other companies are cutting back and customer service and hours and, and they're missing out on opportunities.

00;15;00;13 - 00;15;27;00
John Hewitt
So I've grabbed the most market share during during recessions in the Great Recession in 2008 and 2009, Liberty Tax added 700 locations. Starbucks closed 650 locations. So Starbucks was offering less service, even wonderful. Great Starbucks because during a recession, you don't have to buy a cup of coffee, a fancy cup of coffee, but you do have to file your taxes.

00;15;27;00 - 00;15;33;28
John Hewitt
And so I find that you can never stop exceeding customers expectations.

00;15;34;00 - 00;15;58;11
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah, that's you know, and that focus on lifetime value is one of the things that I find a lot of people miss. They get all caught up in the cost of the first transaction. And one of my personal philosophy is actually it's not mine. I you know what, like most, you know, a great idea is I stole it from someone else.

00;15;58;13 - 00;16;13;18
Craig Andrews
I think it was Dan Kennedy that said, whoever's willing to spend the most on customer acquisition wins, you know, and so. But that that requires a a clear view of lifetime value.

00;16;13;21 - 00;16;45;07
John Hewitt
So, yeah, let me can I give you an example that really portrays this, that, my, my competitors, this is the way my competitors handle and this is the way that I handle, and even my own people fight with me sometimes about it. But if, we have a situation where if you file your taxes, you can, for an extra fee of $39, you can have your tax return fee withheld from your refund so you don't pay anything upfront.

00;16;45;09 - 00;17;13;11
John Hewitt
So say that the is $300. And if you pay upfront it's $300. But if you don't want to pay up front for an extra $39, we'll take the whole $339 out of your refund. And, then, when the when it comes in will be 339 loss. Well, what happens is about 1% of those returns, don't get funded.

00;17;13;13 - 00;17;42;01
John Hewitt
And so the person owes us 339 out. Right. The IRS holds the refund that they have back taxes or child support or, CERT student loan and that the one of the agency grabs that through their refund and so they don't pay. So so it's ten returns out of a thousand. So let's say that's when this is the way the other the others think of it.

00;17;42;03 - 00;18;11;02
John Hewitt
Right. They go to the they go to their, their employees and franchisees and say, well that's accounts receivable. There are ten customers that owe you $300. That's $339. That's $3,390, accounts receivable. You need to go collect. And so you send them letters and you eventually turn them into a, target collection agency to get their money.

00;18;11;05 - 00;18;40;04
John Hewitt
What I explained to my people is, you know, that's going to happen before the season starts. And if you lose one return for every return, you lose a car. The customer pays 300. But incrementally, it didn't cost you $30, right? It didn't cost you 30, though, so. And you know, in advance, it's sort of like in a grocery chain when you buy a 2,000 pounds of tomatoes, you know, some of them are going to sprout.

00;18;40;06 - 00;19;15;08
John Hewitt
Think of it as spoilage. It's going to cost for those ten returns. It's going to cost you $300. It's going to cost you $30 times ten 300. Now you have to raise your feed threes three set $0.30 revenue to pay for that. Raise your fee and don't charge me anything. And how many of those people that you track down and go after and then try to get that 339 out, how many of them are ever going to come back, and how many of them are going to tell their friends that, this is not a place to go there?

00;19;15;10 - 00;19;38;19
John Hewitt
I mean, you've lost a customer. You can lose a customer for life or for $0.30 extra. Instead of charging $300 the average fee, you charge $300.30 to everyone you paid for it. And you make those people happy. They'll come back. And you know what? God bless them. If they never pay for the next eight years, they get free tax returns.

00;19;38;27 - 00;19;59;05
John Hewitt
It cost you $30 times eight $240. If they come back eight straight years and sooner or later they're going to they're going to have their refunds have got to paid off the debt, and they're going to start paying. So but our competitors, they go after those people like they're evil crooks and they lose them for life.

00;19;59;07 - 00;20;29;16
Craig Andrews
Yeah, that's a smart you know, one of the things when we were talking about people cutting during recessions, cutting customer service, you know, one of the biggest gifts, I believe, that you can be given is to know the playbook of your competition. If you know the playbook of your competition, it gives you so much advantage. And so if you know that they're going to be cutting customer service or they're going to be stopping investment, this is your opportunity to increase your lead on them because you know their playbook.

00;20;29;16 - 00;20;33;26
Craig Andrews
You don't don't do what they do, compete against it.

00;20;33;28 - 00;21;03;11
John Hewitt
Exactly. And some of it is they cut their hours, right? They they reduce their hours. They reduce their staffing. And what I've found that during recession, my landlords are more lenient. They'll they'll work with me, my people. I've had people take, they've taken pay cuts or take or take in, less hours voluntarily to save the company that saved their future.

00;21;03;18 - 00;21;29;00
John Hewitt
So, they've taken, they've taken they've tied everyone to is is tightens their belt during recession. And the your best people will work with you your best landlords, your best vendors. Everyone will work with you. And in anticipation of a great future. But it it there's no great future if you're not exceeding customers expectations.

00;21;29;02 - 00;21;52;09
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Now, one of the things you said a few minutes ago that really surprised me and, and kind of ties into that thing of knowing your competitors playbook. You said that competing against Jackson Hewitt, competing against H&R block was harder. That surprised me because I thought it would be easier because, you know their playbook, you know what they're going to do.

00;21;52;11 - 00;21;55;04
Craig Andrews
What made it harder?

00;21;55;06 - 00;22;22;18
John Hewitt
Well, Craig, to to succeed, you have to be you have to have differentiators, right. If if, David had gone onto the field with the same sword and the same shield and same armor as Goliath, there would be no David and Goliath. He built 189, got killed by God. Right. So when I competed with H&R block, when I started with Jackson Hewitt, I had to have things I did better, right?

00;22;22;25 - 00;22;42;00
John Hewitt
Things that I did different, whether it's a slingshot or whatever it is, I had to, if you advertise the same way, have the same hours, pay your, prepares the same. We do everything the same. How are you going to get customers? They're going to get the lion's share. The customer. They have way more money and way more name recognition.

00;22;42;07 - 00;23;06;20
John Hewitt
So you have to do it differently. So now when I started Liberty, I had to be different from not only each of our blah, but my own name and my own software, my own system. So I had to to come up with with, things that were unique, objective, different than David and, and, for example. And one was clear that we did for exit.

00;23;06;26 - 00;23;41;00
John Hewitt
I'm most of your listeners no doubt have seen Our Lady Liberty out in front of our dancing in front of our office right now, in not only are we best in the industry, that there's no one in the industry that have that have a costume character, but almost no industry. So consumers today are bombarded with thousands of messages every day online television, radio, newspaper, direct mail, everything.

00;23;41;02 - 00;24;03;25
John Hewitt
If you seo a waver out in front of an office every day from January 1st to April 15th, that's going to catch you. Your mind? No matter everything being bombarded that I mean, you can't pass by one without sin. And so things like that differentiate us. We have to have differentiators that made us special.

00;24;03;27 - 00;24;21;29
Craig Andrews
You know what one of the one of the people I talked to about this interview, and I asked him if he had heard of Liberty Tax Service. He was like and he said in a negative tone, he was like, oh, is that that company has those statues of Liberty down the road. He's like, I wouldn't be. I wouldn't do my taxes there.

00;24;21;29 - 00;24;27;21
Craig Andrews
And I said, well, you're probably not their customer.

00;24;27;23 - 00;24;55;13
John Hewitt
Exactly. People have to understand that in my industry, for example, H&R block household names, 9000 locations, fortune 500 company, they only have a 13% market share, right? At Jackson, Hewitt and Liberty, I only got two combined about 7% market share. You don't need 100% of the customer, right? You don't need 100% because you can't get 100% of the customers in any industry.

00;24;55;18 - 00;25;30;15
John Hewitt
Right? There are things at McDonald's that turns consumers off or the things at Burger King that turn consumers off at Wendy's, every, every, industry. there's no one that has a 100% market share, right? Not Macy's, not Walmart, not I mean, not any company has a 100% market share. You have to understand that. I, Jackson Hewitt, became $1 billion company with only a 6% market share, only a 6% market share.

00;25;30;22 - 00;25;41;28
John Hewitt
An H&R block is a $5 billion company today with only a 13% market share. You don't need 100%. You can't try to please everyone.

00;25;42;00 - 00;26;02;01
Craig Andrews
So I, I do. I'm a marketing consultant, and one of the things a lot of my clients are terrified of is offending somebody. They want a message that's so clean and so sanitized that offends no one. And I say if it offends no one, it probably moves no one. I'm interested in your take on that.

00;26;02;04 - 00;26;30;14
John Hewitt
Absolutely theirs over the years and they I've had to be incredibly good and which is hard or incredibly bad. I mean, there are bad ads that gay gay people, help companies grab incredible market share. Yeah. I mean, they say any publicity is good publicity. At the end of the day, you need to have brand recognition and a bad ad or a bad message can do that.

00;26;30;16 - 00;26;58;21
John Hewitt
I mean, I, I love I'm not sure is and I love that lady at, Wendy's. Where's the beef? where's the beef? Right. I love, you know, the you know what propelled Bynes to become number one in catch up? You're not old enough, but they had a bottle back in the 60s, and they just showed how fast the ketchup came out of competitors bottle and their bottle.

00;26;58;23 - 00;27;28;02
John Hewitt
And it took a lot longer out of the Heinz bottle. So that just show I mean, that simple message show the consumer that it was thicker and therefore, in their minds, higher quality, better taste. And so, yeah, yeah. In there is that there was what was the phrase, something about Pepsodent. Wonder where the yellow went when you brush your teeth with Pepsodent?

00;27;28;04 - 00;27;51;12
John Hewitt
I mean, that was their big ad in the 60s. And they they grabbed huge market share. So over the years, there's been a lot of weird stuff that is work. Well, your job, first of all, you got to get branding and every one there are thousands. And how many in every area in Virginia Beach, how many companies are there that are fighting for market share?

00;27;51;15 - 00;28;22;28
John Hewitt
So let's think of it this way. Correct? That in Virginia Beach there's 550,000 people. There's about 10% businesses in this country per population. So that means there's 55,000 business. If there's 550,000, people in Virginia Beach, there's 55,000 people trying to get branding. That is good. You have to first before you can get a customer. You gotta get them to recognize your brand, right?

00;28;22;28 - 00;28;45;00
John Hewitt
Then you have to make two decisions, right? You have to recognize your brand and what you do. And then you have to believe that it's a good return on investment. Whatever it is, whether you're a realtor, whether you're you're selling, groceries, you're first of all, you have to get branding and then you have to get a decision.

00;28;45;03 - 00;29;00;13
John Hewitt
Yet I'm going to give that brand to truck. But most people, if you don't want to risk risk, stepping in, it's easier to get brand name by stepping on toes than it is by going along with what everyone else does.

00;29;00;16 - 00;29;13;15
Craig Andrews
Yeah, well, and something I tell clients when they say that's not how it's done in my industry. My response, my next question to them is, is your goal to be average?

00;29;13;17 - 00;29;27;01
John Hewitt
Right. if if there's 20 competitors in my market, do you want to advertise the same way as the other 19? That's stupid. That's crazy.

00;29;27;03 - 00;29;49;14
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So there's there's one thing that I think is probably lost, you know, as as I'm listening to you talk about this, you know, you've laid out how you've built these two big brands. Now you have loyalty brands, which is even more brands, and you're repeating the formula that you've used before. There are people that would easily think, well, this was just a easy process.

00;29;49;17 - 00;30;03;12
Craig Andrews
You know, you went off and started, you know, went from an HR block to starting Jackson Hewitt. But I'm reading your book. It struck me as anything but easy.

00;30;03;14 - 00;30;24;22
John Hewitt
Well, it was easy. Anyone could do it. I mean, if you just think about the tax industry or income tax, you know, I and which I've been doing since 1969, this is my 55th tax. I've seen hundreds of competitors tried to go natural gas. Eight star. Well, there's only one guy that's ever done, and I've done it twice.

00;30;24;24 - 00;30;48;21
John Hewitt
So in the whole industry, there's been millions of taxpayers. Hundreds. Try to go, Nash. There's only two guys that did it, Henry Block and John. You know. And you know, everything worthwhile requires hard work. The one thing I admit in my book is all the mistakes that are many of the mistakes I made, my biggest mistakes. And you get to learn from my mistakes.

00;30;48;21 - 00;31;13;18
John Hewitt
I think I do based on the feedback I get from people that read my book. The number one problem that I get is I like the way you laid out the errors you made and the people that are most successful have made the most errors. I've in this industry. I've either made every mistake you can possibly make or seen every mistake you could possibly make.

00;31;13;25 - 00;31;33;03
John Hewitt
So I'm an expert on error, and I. I take the, out of trial and error. There's no error when you get our system right. You don't have to. You don't have to go through trial. You don't have to go through error. We've already done that for you. You get the best system on the planet because of all the errors I've made.

00;31;33;05 - 00;31;43;21
Craig Andrews
And just for clarity, what you're talking about loyalty, brands, you've taken, what you've learned over these years and you're helping other brands go off and franchise.

00;31;43;23 - 00;32;05;03
John Hewitt
Exactly. We have eight different franchise systems. And of course, our tax division is the, again, the fastest growing in that space, just like I was when I was with Block and Jackson and Liberty. Once again, we're the fastest growing. They they give it to me by default by not measuring up to our to our, my consumer values and our consumer base.

00;32;05;06 - 00;32;21;23
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well, speaking of values, I want to pivot a little bit. And you talk about priorities in your book. And you said that there's an order. You know, you have an order of decisions where you make priorities. What does that order?

00;32;21;25 - 00;32;54;18
John Hewitt
What's pretty simple, the, I my two primary priorities are this, that, in order to have a structure, you have to have policies and procedures. In order to have a great organization, you have to have principles. And so the order is very simple, though, that when you have principles and policies, you know, you always principle trumps powers.

00;32;54;21 - 00;33;22;18
John Hewitt
So you always have to do the right thing for the consumer, even though if you have some policy I hate companies when I go into a company that has some policy, for example, one policy that I hate routinely is when I go into a restaurant and let's say I'm having a party of six people, and usually since I'm traveling all the time, I'm out of out of the area and I'm meeting 3 or 4 groups.

00;33;22;20 - 00;33;40;28
John Hewitt
And so I go into a restaurant and I have a table for six at 6:00. I arrive at 530, and you're the first one here. so, some restaurants won't say you, you have to go sit at the bar or sit in the corner over there, because either tell all your parties here or most of the your parties here.

00;33;40;28 - 00;34;04;17
John Hewitt
Some of you have all your part. Now, if I have six people coming, we may be waiting. Five of us may be waiting for one person that this is business, right? They may have come from. They may be a half hour late. It's just I mean, I hate that policy. That's not principle. That's not treating customers right. So one thing that's clear priority is, principles.

00;34;04;17 - 00;34;06;26
John Hewitt
Trump pals.

00;34;06;28 - 00;34;25;03
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I like that because when you. When you have well-defined, clear principles, it makes decision making easy. It's a framework through which you can make any decision you need to make.

00;34;25;06 - 00;34;29;15
John Hewitt
Exactly. You don't need to worry about violating a policy.

00;34;29;18 - 00;34;30;08
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;34;30;10 - 00;34;58;22
John Hewitt
Like Comey's opening earlier, staying late or or, that's just the policy. But the principle is doing what's right for the customer. And we have a policy. We don't deliver tax. Well, there's some I'm certain there's some situations where it's a it's an imminent disaster that someone needs. It's excellent that we got to go deliver it back. And that's, that's principle doing what's best for the customer.

00;34;58;24 - 00;35;16;20
Craig Andrews
I also read in your book, you said when you're setting priorities, your first priority is God. Then it's, family. And then it's, the business. How what's that look like and how that plays out?

00;35;16;22 - 00;35;39;12
John Hewitt
Well, again, that, you, always have to do the right thing. You always have to, it's and it's, let me say, correct that that being principle is very, very difficult. That and I didn't realize that until I had an epiphany 35 years ago. I was in church and the minister said, every one of us sins every day.

00;35;39;15 - 00;36;03;27
John Hewitt
And I said to myself, wow, I get that, I do, but he's admitting that he does. And so my first takeaway was, okay, if he says everyone I agree with. And then a couple months later and it dawned on me, I had a Tiffany that, wow, if if we're going to violate apart God's Ten Commandments, we're certainly going to violate Jackson I.

00;36;03;27 - 00;36;26;18
John Hewitt
That was when I was with Jackson Hewitt. Jackson. He was ten principles. And so what I did is I created a we call them mission moments. And so we gave every employee a pad of a pad, a vision moments. And what it was is it had room for their name and it had the ten principles of Jackson Hewitt.

00;36;26;20 - 00;36;50;28
John Hewitt
And then below it was a company. And if you saw someone, they did a good job of meeting the principal and overcoming a policy. Then you would tear it off, write their name and give a comment and and then but if you saw someone violate violate the principle and treat someone with disrespect or do something, do something, then you would give them that.

00;36;50;28 - 00;37;24;01
John Hewitt
And it was it was fun to see that all over the headquarters that people would post them on their wall. most most people only got good ones because no one like to give bad ones. I mean, I enjoyed giving bad ones. You got because, I'm, I'm, a, very frank, brutally frank. And when someone doesn't live up to it, then especially one of my officers, that caused lots of my arguments and they try to defend their behavior.

00;37;24;03 - 00;37;48;04
John Hewitt
But, I love it when I walk around the office. And so people had them taped to their wall, and it made it a better place to work. And it made it made for, have them help me, because if if you're again, if you're going to violate, that's what you're going to violate your company's principles. And so, and you have to you can only you can never stop that.

00;37;48;11 - 00;38;10;05
John Hewitt
Right. God hasn't been able to stop it. So no company is going to be able to stop it. But you can you can be cognizant of it and try to improve. And while I didn't do that in my family, we certainly have had challenges in in my family and in business where people were unprincipled.

00;38;10;07 - 00;38;47;24
Craig Andrews
Yeah. such an interesting way of looking at it. The other thing that I learned about you is you started you started your own charity, and initially you started by looking for another charity. And, and your passion is about addressing hunger. And you found charities that addressed hunger. But as a part of it, you. I believe the words you use, they were proselytizing and that was something that was not what you wanted as part of your charitable givings.

00;38;47;24 - 00;38;54;19
Craig Andrews
And I just have to be honest, that surprised me when I read that. can you help me understand your thinking? There?

00;38;54;21 - 00;39;28;01
John Hewitt
Yeah. When, when, one of our principles, at Liberty and, Jackson, you and and now, loyalty brands is to give back. And as I began to get wealthy when I was, building Jackson Europe into $1 billion company, I felt called to help in world hunger. And because back then, I think 38,000 people, what they were doing, starvation or disease and related to starvation.

00;39;28;03 - 00;40;04;06
John Hewitt
And somehow that struck me there. Now, there are hundreds of great causes, including proselytizing to those people that you saved their lives. So I went on a search to try to find my. My goal was just to save lives. And what I found is every organization that in the United States that was into hunger was also after you saved their life, you would proselytize, you would teach them about Christ, or you would teach them and or you would teach them how to farm or fish or manufacture.

00;40;04;08 - 00;40;36;20
John Hewitt
You would teach them so that they wouldn't get back into that same situation. Well, the problem and both of those are important, right? Teaching them to be self-sustaining and teaching them about Christ are very important. But meantime, there's people dying out. So let's say it cost me I invested 100,000, saves thousand lives, and then another hundred thousand to either to to proselytize and and teach them to be self-sustaining.

00;40;36;22 - 00;41;09;10
John Hewitt
Well, meantime, there's people dying right next door. I mean, over there, there's hundreds of thousands of people dying, thousands people every day. So I felt compelled to just save lives and turn them over to other organizations. So I started my own organization in same year. I started Liberty in January of 98, and all we did was focus on Salem Works, and then we partner with other organizations that like church organizations and and other other charitable organizations that wanted to do the other things.

00;41;09;10 - 00;41;31;07
John Hewitt
It's not that they aren't important. There is incredibly work, but my heart tugs out for the people that are suffering. Yeah. And so that's so we're like the I. I've never been in the armed forces, but I view it as sort of the way that I see the Marines. when they go in and take over a regime in the Marines on the first on.

00;41;31;07 - 00;41;54;27
John Hewitt
Sure. And then and then they turn over to their right, and I, I view it. So that's there was no other organization doing that. So we had an organization called Stop Hunger. And now our mission statement was the name of our organization, Stop Hunger Now started in January 98th. And I'm proud to say that I partner with a methodist minister.

00;41;55;00 - 00;42;13;07
John Hewitt
He did all the work, went all over the world. I for the first two and a half years, I paid all the expenses and and food and and transportation. But now they have, they have 100 employees and distribute over 500 million meals in 76 different countries.

00;42;13;09 - 00;42;24;22
Craig Andrews
Now, that's that's incredible. That's absolutely incredible. I don't know if you realize it, but I, I was in the Marines spent six.

00;42;24;22 - 00;42;30;15
John Hewitt
Years, I didn't I yeah, I was when I was saying that, I was wondering if you had ever been in the armed forces.

00;42;30;17 - 00;42;33;02
Craig Andrews
Yeah. I spent six years in the Marine Corps.

00;42;33;04 - 00;42;35;27
John Hewitt
Am I right? The way that I think of it.

00;42;35;29 - 00;42;36;11
Craig Andrews
Yeah.

00;42;36;11 - 00;42;38;19
John Hewitt
No, no, the first guys, their.

00;42;38;22 - 00;43;07;13
Craig Andrews
First guys, they're, you know, and you probably don't know, you know, when I was, you know, I mentioned earlier, I was in the hospital and I had, when I got out of the hospital, I had to learn how to walk again. And, you know, my body completely atrophied, and I. I credit the Marine Corps for giving me the mentality to go through the difficult path of recovery, but kind of tying it back to our conversation here, the conversation about branding you want to talk about, well, branded organization.

00;43;07;13 - 00;43;13;05
Craig Andrews
It's the Marine Corps, and they defend their brand vigorously.

00;43;13;08 - 00;43;25;17
John Hewitt
Yeah, I think that there's a there's an air of elite, comradeship and that that may not exist in, in the Army of the Navy.

00;43;25;20 - 00;43;41;12
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. And we take care of our own. when I was in a coma, there's a marine that lives down the street because marine, once a marine, always marine and he showed up at my house and started cutting the grass without being asked.

00;43;41;15 - 00;44;12;13
John Hewitt
Well, yeah, yeah, I'm going to get in trouble with Army and Navy members, by the way, for having said that. But it seems to me they carry themselves a little bit more elite than that. And that's maybe because there's less. And or again, the, what's Semper Fi is what is that what it's called says faithful, always faithful, never leave a soldier behind or I mean, there's they're just they have there's an aura about a marine.

00;44;12;14 - 00;44;29;15
John Hewitt
I think that that in my mind. And I'm sure if I was in the Army, I would, I would think Army was best if I was in the Navy. I think maybe with I've always I've always, you know, my name in my book is I could be. So, if I was with any one of them, I would think I was best.

00;44;29;17 - 00;44;48;25
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So as we wrap up, what advice would you give to business owners in 2024 as their facing whatever you believe about today's economy, what advice would you give as we sign off today?

00;44;48;28 - 00;45;12;12
John Hewitt
Well, I learned, you know, I'm constant constantly. And I've we mentioned I mentioned at least three if not six times on this, this podcast that exceeding customers expectations. But, well, I'll say it this way that we do something. This is why I think of it, that I've only I learned from an author called Stan Phelps.

00;45;12;15 - 00;45;43;09
John Hewitt
And he in this book, you said when you arrive at a event, no one. Right. Say the events at nine and no one arrives exactly at 9 a.m.. They are there before or out. I mean, it's, it's rare that some walks in this clock start strikes nine and the very second and someone walks in the door and he said, in the very same manner you never see, rarely meet a customer's expectations.

00;45;43;12 - 00;46;23;19
John Hewitt
You either fail to meet it or you exceed it. And so my message to is, that we measure our success, exceeding a greater percentage of customers expectations. We can never be 100%, for many, many reasons. But every year we we evaluate our performance. And have we exceeded a greater percentage of customers expectations. And so if you do that, if you exceed a greater share of customers expectations every year, you're going to be wildly successful.

00;46;23;21 - 00;46;29;24
John Hewitt
If you don't, you're going to be somewhere between mediocre and.

00;46;29;26 - 00;46;56;17
Craig Andrews
I like that, and it's not not exceeding everybody's expectation because that's, that's you know, impossible, but exceeding more expectations than any of your competitors. And I think that's so key. The when you look at top performers, the difference between number one and number 50 is often small. You know, if you look in sports or what have you, small differences.

00;46;56;17 - 00;47;00;25
Craig Andrews
But those small differences make a big, big difference.

00;47;00;27 - 00;47;20;03
John Hewitt
Yeah. There's an ordinary I love the phrase there is in extraordinary and ordinary is the little extra. And that's what they call extraordinary. And I love the phrase that, you know, they talk about the extra mile, that there's very little traffic on the extra mile.

00;47;20;05 - 00;47;51;06
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, John, this has been just a delightful conversation. And one of the goals before we hit record was, you said your goal is to improve people's lives or change lives. So, kind of what would be your parting shot of how to change people's lives and how would they reach you if they want to be a part of that mission?

00;47;51;09 - 00;48;21;25
John Hewitt
Well, the one the one thing that's that's been the secret sauce of my success is I've always wonder what's better for the other person and whether it's an employee or a customer or franchisee or vendor. if if it's best for that, I want what's best for them. What is best for me? Wow. That's joyful. But if if you're an employee and you get a chance at somewhere else and season your life story, go for it.

00;48;21;25 - 00;48;44;22
John Hewitt
I mean, I want you to be all that you can be. And so, that that is the key thing that's propelled me through all my successes. I always want what's best for the other person. And part of that is you have to then care and find out, right? Because people are just going to vomit. Oh, this is what's best for me.

00;48;44;25 - 00;49;10;20
John Hewitt
You need to listen to them and and work with them and, nourish them and encourage them to find out what is best for them. So, that's the key to, to my success. But, the way to reach me is, John G. Chen and loyalty brand scout. Glad to send you a, free ebook. If you if you reach out to me.

00;49;10;22 - 00;49;19;14
Craig Andrews
Well, that's a generous offer, John. I do hope people reach out. And thank you for sharing your your powerful story today on leaders and legacies.

00;49;19;17 - 00;49;23;10
John Hewitt
And my pleasure. Thank you Greg. Have a wonderful day.

00;49;23;10 - 00;49;52;06
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Alize for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this episode on social media.

00;49;52;08 - 00;50;15;18
Craig Andrews
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00;50;15;20 - 00;52;26;04
Craig Andrews
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