Cybersecurity expert Christian Espinosa shares his transformative journey from narrowly surviving health crises to redefining leadership in the tech industry. Hosted by Craig Andrews, the conversation delves into how Espinosa's brush with death twice not only heightened his appreciation for life but also reshaped his approach to leading teams and building businesses in the cybersecurity field.
Espinosa's narrative weaves through the challenges and realizations that prompted him to prioritize emotional intelligence alongside technical skills within his leadership style. By intertwining tales of personal adversity with professional triumphs, he highlights the crucial role empathy and connection play in fostering effective teams and client relationships. His venture into securing medical devices is particularly poignant, stemming from his own experiences within the healthcare system, showcasing a deep commitment to leveraging his expertise for societal benefit.
Through his story, Espinosa advocates for a leadership paradigm that values emotional depth and human connection as much as technical prowess. His journey embodies the profound impact that personal growth can have on professional excellence, offering valuable lessons on resilience, empathy, and the significance of life's micro-moments. The episode is a compelling reminder of the transformative power of integrating emotional intelligence into the fabric of leadership, especially in fields driven by innovation and technical skill.
Want to learn more about Christian's work? Check out their website at https://bluegoatcyber.com.
Connect with Christian on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/christianespinosa/.
Key Points with Timestamps
- Personal Health Crisis and Leadership Insights (00:02:15 - 00:06:40): Christian Espinosa shares his near-fatal health experiences and how they led to a reevaluation of life's priorities and leadership style.
- Emotional Intelligence Over Technical Skills (00:32:10 - 00:33:42): Espinosa discusses the transformation within his company after prioritizing emotional intelligence, leading to improved client relations and team dynamics.
- Cybersecurity and Medical Device Security (00:29:14 - 00:31:45): The discussion shifts to Espinosa's current focus on securing medical devices against cyber threats, emphasizing the critical intersection of healthcare and cybersecurity.
- The Importance of Micro-Moments (00:16:31 - 00:17:59): Espinosa elaborates on the concept of micro-moments from his book, underscoring the power of presence and intention in everyday interactions.
- Adapting Leadership in the Face of AI (00:39:00 - 00:40:16): Reflecting on the future of work and AI, Espinosa stresses the irreplaceable value of emotional intelligence in an increasingly automated world.
Transcript
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;20
Craig Andrews
I was in a coma for six weeks while the doctors told my wife I was going to die. When I woke up, she told me the most fantastic story. My team kept running the business without me. Freelancers reached out to my team and said, we will do whatever it takes. As long as Craig's in the hospital. I consider that the greatest accomplishment of my career.
00;00;30;23 - 00;00;51;10
Craig Andrews
My name is Craig Andrews and this is the Leaders and Legacies podcast where we talk to leaders creating an impact beyond themselves. At the end of today's interview, I'll tell you how you can be the next leader featured on the show.
00;00;51;17 - 00;01;17;03
Craig Andrews
Today I want to welcome Cristian Espinosa. I've been talking to Christian. Off camera work. We're going to cover a number of things today that I think you really want to hear. It's going to be a little bit about, personal choices and health. It's going to be a little bit about, interacting with others and seizing the moment.
00;01;17;05 - 00;01;44;13
Craig Andrews
and we're going to talk, you know, a little bit, you know, a little bit about running businesses, running and selling businesses. Christian has authored a couple books. One is called The Smartest Person in the room, and, points out, if I understand correctly, that you don't necessarily want to be the smartest person in the room. Yeah, I mean, maybe you end up there, but, there's something missed.
00;01;44;19 - 00;02;11;14
Craig Andrews
And, more recently, he's published the In Between Life in the micro and that. we're going to spend a lot of time talking about them. I'm really excited by that. Christian has built and successfully sold Alpine Security, a cybersecurity business, and he currently leads Blue Goat Cyber. And so with that Christian welcome.
00;02;11;16 - 00;02;15;03
Christian Espinosa
Thank you Craig. Thanks for the nice introduction. Happy to be here.
00;02;15;05 - 00;02;33;23
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So, you know, we were we were talking. And one of the things that turns out that you and I have in common is both of us, about two years ago, had a near early departure from this world. What happened with, you know.
00;02;33;25 - 00;02;58;17
Christian Espinosa
I just flown back from, Phenix to Saint Louis. I live in Phenix now, ironically, and, I worked out I was doing some burpees, for about 30 minutes, and then, I noticed my left leg started hurting pretty badly. Right behind, behind my knee. And I was talking to a friend of mine on the phone, and she told me that I might have blood clots, and I'm like, whatever.
00;02;58;17 - 00;03;20;04
Christian Espinosa
I'm an Ironman athlete. I don't get blood clots. I was just worked out, you know, things like that don't happen to people like me. but she told me, go to the hospital and made me promise. So I went to hospital and I was diagnosed with, six blood clots in my lower left leg. and if I were to wait much longer, I could have had a stroke or a pulmonary embolism.
00;03;20;06 - 00;03;25;28
Christian Espinosa
And, you know, may not have made it through. So. So that, Let me let me my life.
00;03;26;00 - 00;03;42;06
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Let me let me translate that for those without their medical dictionary handy. pulmonary embolism, that basically means you get a blood clot. If I'm interpreting the words correctly, you get a blood clot in your lungs. and your body quits getting oxygen. Is that.
00;03;42;13 - 00;03;44;09
Christian Espinosa
That's right. That's correct.
00;03;44;11 - 00;03;47;24
Craig Andrews
I'm guessing that's probably pretty bad.
00;03;47;26 - 00;04;07;06
Christian Espinosa
That or, you know, a blood clot travels to your brain and you have a stroke. those are the two, primary risk that the blood clots had. and I wasn't just one, I had six. So, like, most of my veins in my lower left leg were, constricted with these clots. And that was what was causing the pain.
00;04;07;08 - 00;04;20;29
Craig Andrews
Oh, my goodness. Thank goodness you're here. And thank goodness for your friend. What was, And what was her background when she, you know, nurse, EMT, a doctor.
00;04;21;02 - 00;04;41;05
Christian Espinosa
she just was very into tuned, to everything. I would say she's more holistic medicine, but she's well versed in medicine. And she asked me a couple questions, like if I was having a hard time breathing, going up the stairs, and I. And I was. And I'm like, that's kind of weird. Like, I'm usually in great shape.
00;04;41;05 - 00;04;53;25
Christian Espinosa
I thought I just pulled a muscle. I didn't know it's a blood clot. But after a series of questions, she asked me, which I guess, in her mind indicated I probably had blood clots is why she wanted me to go to hospital.
00;04;53;27 - 00;05;02;14
Craig Andrews
Well, and so you get to the hospital, they do an ultrasound. How long did it take them to figure out that you had clots?
00;05;02;16 - 00;05;20;15
Christian Espinosa
So I went to the hospital, and I don't like going to hospitals, so I try to go to, one of those, 24 hour emergency care places. First, they told me they couldn't help that. Had to go to emergency room at the hospital. I went there, they took my blood pressure, and my blood pressure is super high, is like 180 over over something.
00;05;20;15 - 00;05;44;24
Christian Espinosa
It's usually like 110 over, like 80. So that was kind of an indication that something might be wrong. And then I waited for about 30 or 40 minutes and they took me back and gave me the, ultrasound, with a wand on my, on my leg. And then they had to wait a bit longer. And finally a doctor came out and just told me I had he said, you have blood clots in.
00;05;44;24 - 00;05;59;24
Christian Espinosa
He said you had six on your left leg. And I was kind of freaked out. I don't really know anything about blood clots. So I asked him. I was like, well, what does this mean? And he said, well, it means you could have a stroke or die any moment. So I started kind of freaking out a little bit because I was there by myself.
00;05;59;24 - 00;06;18;13
Christian Espinosa
I didn't have any family nearby, and he saw me freaking out because I was like starting to cry silently. That's thinking like, my life is over. And he said, he told me he's like, don't worry, I see this all the time. And like, kind of like upset me because I'm like, you know, I don't see this all the time.
00;06;18;13 - 00;06;40;03
Christian Espinosa
This is a first for me. And that lack of empathy, I think it was it attempted empathy, really struck me. And that is the things along those lines are what I write about, wrote about in my last book, actually, so that a lot of that journey with the blood clots influenced my last book.
00;06;40;06 - 00;07;04;09
Craig Andrews
You know, I in my journey through the hospital, the now I was, I was in the hospital at the peak of Covid and doctors were really stressed out. But the, there is a huge human element missing. And sounds like you had the same thing.
00;07;04;12 - 00;07;27;22
Christian Espinosa
100%. Yeah. I think it's, I wrote about this in my first book. Also, it's a I guess it's a common theme in my life when we see ourselves as a role or a certain position and we see ourselves separate from other people, like patient and doctor versus we're both humans. I think it's hard to have that empathy because you don't see the other person as a human.
00;07;27;22 - 00;07;48;25
Christian Espinosa
You see them as, you know, whatever role they're depicted in and based on your role. And I think we have a big problem with that. Our society with, you know, pro-vaccine, anti-vaccine Democrats, Republicans, you know, all these different factions create division. It is hard to have empathy when you see people different from yourself. And I yeah, I think that's a big problem in our society.
00;07;48;28 - 00;08;22;04
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah. You know, one, one of the I think there were a number of sad moments in my journey, but one of the sad ones I missed, I was still in a coma. I was about to leave the ICU. I was I was about to be their first survivor that went on a ventilator. And my wife, the doctor, had been who had been ever seeing me for the prior month, comes by the room and my wife says, hey, you know, it's like the day before I'm leaving.
00;08;22;07 - 00;08;51;29
Craig Andrews
And she's like, isn't this awesome? Isn't this great that he's going to make it? And the doctor just kind of quipped back smugly, or, you know, not not very kind. He just said, well, he's very weak and well and it just it was shocking. It still shocks me to this day. you know, they should have been they should have been propping my hand up on the gurney as they were rolling me out of the hospital doing high fives as our first survivor.
00;08;52;02 - 00;09;31;15
Craig Andrews
Yeah. the, and but instead they were, there was missing that that human element that we're talking about. and him. So, so obviously you, you you got better. They put you on blood thinners and what have you. What did did you find out what the root cause was? Is there a root cause? What you know what how that resolve itself.
00;09;31;18 - 00;09;52;20
Christian Espinosa
well, it was a very frustrating journey. no, they did my blood work. there was no root cause. And the blood work. I did get the Johnson Johnson Covid vaccine, but, you know, no one will say that that was a cause either. and I, they gave me blood thinners, so I took blood thinners for almost a year.
00;09;52;26 - 00;10;14;15
Christian Espinosa
And during that time, I had left my parent company that I sold my previous cybersecurity company to. So I had to get my own insurance, and I couldn't get insurance because I had a preexisting condition now. So I was paying like $600 a month for these blood thinners. and I really didn't want to take them. But my girlfriend's a nurse, and she's like, you can't just stop taking the blood thinners.
00;10;14;15 - 00;10;31;00
Christian Espinosa
So I kind of wean myself off of them, which is probably not the best thing to do. but I just remember one day looking at that pillow. But thinners that I'm like. And my life was pretty sedentary. I was afraid to do anything because I knew another clot might break off. people were telling me not to do, not to go work out, not to run.
00;10;31;00 - 00;10;50;23
Christian Espinosa
You might die. And I, you know, so I was like, blood thinners and I just, like, do them across the room and said, screw this. I'm not taking these anymore. I'm gonna go get my blood tested. Every single blood test possible and reclaim my health. And that's what I did. I started doing like, I.V. therapy with nad plus and different things to help.
00;10;50;26 - 00;11;10;26
Christian Espinosa
I got a pulmonary specialist to look at my leg thoroughly, with a Doppler ultrasound to make sure there were no clots. And, and I still get my my blood measured routinely. but I don't take blood 30 more. And I started running again. I did a half Ironman triathlon. Before that, I was doing a lot more.
00;11;10;28 - 00;11;29;06
Christian Espinosa
So it's been, a journey, but I, I feel good that I, took charge of my health and reclaim my own life and not listen to everybody who told me not to do anything but sit on the couch all day and and just be grateful that I'm alive. You know, I went from, it was it was a pretty dark place for me.
00;11;29;06 - 00;11;40;16
Christian Espinosa
I went from being super active and super confident, to kind of just sitting in the dark in my basement for a while, wondering what my life is going to turn out to be.
00;11;40;18 - 00;12;08;24
Craig Andrews
Yeah. And and I think that's I mean, I think that's such an important point. The I can tell you is similar to you, the big advanced advancements I've made in my own recovery and in my own health have been my initiatives, not the initiatives that the doctors have put me on. and including getting off medicine, you know, and I, I was they had me on a blood thinner, maybe the same.
00;12;08;24 - 00;12;30;17
Craig Andrews
I don't want to say the brand on here, but the, I think it was probably the same brand. It began with an E, and, but the, what was funny was the, you know, I asked the doctor, I was like, hey, how do I get off? I just want to get off all drugs. And.
00;12;30;17 - 00;12;31;16
Christian Espinosa
Yeah.
00;12;31;19 - 00;12;55;03
Craig Andrews
And she said, well, to get off the blood thinner, you need to have a, ultrasound. And what was wild was I went and had the ultrasound done. And as soon as the nurse or technician started winding me, doing my legs, I heard the sound. Yeah. This woman. Yeah. Sound. Yeah. You remember it?
00;12;55;06 - 00;12;56;15
Christian Espinosa
Yes.
00;12;56;18 - 00;13;17;24
Craig Andrews
And what was wild was, I know that sound that I texted my wife and I said, hey, when I was in the hospital, that I have an ultrasound, she's like, yeah, it took forever. I said, yeah, you got frustrated and left. And she's like, well, it was past visitation. I had to leave and I started asking her some questions.
00;13;17;24 - 00;13;41;08
Craig Andrews
So this was something that showed up in the dreams in my coma. And for me, I knew I was getting a test, but the sounds that the ultrasound were making, I thought that was some form of weird e-commerce that, when they were done, we were trying to pay them and it would do this weird form of e-commerce that made all these weird noises.
00;13;41;10 - 00;13;42;19
Christian Espinosa
Loud.
00;13;42;22 - 00;14;03;24
Craig Andrews
And, but as soon as I heard it outside my home, I'm like, I know that sound. I remember it from when when I was checked out. but yeah. So that's that's my journey with, blood thinners and, and what have you. What iron man's had you run?
00;14;03;27 - 00;14;18;29
Christian Espinosa
I had done, 24, before I had the blood or the blood clots. I think all of them in North America, including Hawaii, the world championship. I've done that one as well.
00;14;19;02 - 00;14;26;12
Craig Andrews
Wow. You've probably been in my hometown. Did you ever do the Iron Man in Cambridge, Maryland?
00;14;26;15 - 00;14;45;12
Christian Espinosa
Yes. That's the one with, the Crawdads. I think Crawdads, I think is on. oh, not without the logo. And they have the, the jellyfish. When I did it, my jellyfish. I did it the year after. It rained a whole bunch. And people are running through like a a foot of water. It seemed like on the course.
00;14;45;12 - 00;14;48;14
Christian Espinosa
Yeah, yeah, I did do that one.
00;14;48;16 - 00;14;59;24
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So that's I was I was there back in September. my brother lives, like right across the street from great Marsh, where the Ironman begins.
00;14;59;26 - 00;15;01;24
Christian Espinosa
And. Yeah. Awesome.
00;15;01;27 - 00;15;31;07
Craig Andrews
And, yeah, the, week back there, we call them sea nettles, but, yeah, jellyfish and, Yes. That's so wild. Well, very cool, but so that's, that's really interesting. And so it's in terms of if you were to give one message to anybody that has some type of health issue, a simple, clear message of how you would advise them, what would that be?
00;15;31;10 - 00;15;46;16
Christian Espinosa
That nobody cares about your health or your life as much as you do. So do everything you can do to take charge of your own health into your research, and get second opinions. And don't just take, what a doctor tells you for granted.
00;15;46;18 - 00;15;59;20
Craig Andrews
Yeah, yeah. And I'll second that and I'll go a step further. If some doctor is looking frustrated or ridicules you for asking questions, get a new doctor.
00;15;59;23 - 00;16;00;26
Christian Espinosa
100%.
00;16;00;28 - 00;16;23;25
Craig Andrews
They are legally and ethically bound to answer your questions. They may not like it, but the ones that are good and the ones are, you know that that's their job. That's their job. You gotta earn your health. It's a good word. So you said that some of the things that you learned in the process kind of led to your, your book, the In Between Life in the micro and kind of high level.
00;16;23;25 - 00;16;30;27
Craig Andrews
What's what's that book about and how did how did that come out of your experience with blood clots?
00;16;31;00 - 00;16;53;03
Christian Espinosa
The book is about, high achievers. I consider myself, well, high achievers. Sometimes we get super focused on a macro goal or a big goal, and often we get so hyper focused on that. We miss things like right in front of us, between where we are and that goal. And I call those the micro moments. And some of those moments.
00;16;53;03 - 00;17;13;17
Christian Espinosa
If we pay attention and we show up with intention, we can add value to a moment with somebody else. And also those moments might inform us that this thing where we're we're going after so fervently may not actually be the thing we want, we want anymore. And maybe we should shift direction a little bit and go after something more in alignment with who we are.
00;17;13;19 - 00;17;33;19
Christian Espinosa
So the book is largely about that. It's more of a a focus memoir on, you know, where I've screwed things up horribly because I've been too focused on the the big thing, and I miss something right in front of me and like, destroyed a relationship, or, like, fell down a mountain and almost died. you know, because I was, I zoned out for a second.
00;17;33;19 - 00;17;59;24
Christian Espinosa
I wasn't in the, in the moment. and it's about where I got some of a right to, you know, it's a it's just a a focus memoir around that topic. And I ended up finishing the book, like, maybe six months after the, the blood clots. I had written a lot of it before then, but the clots, I think, were a culmination of a lot of things going on with me emotionally, the result of my hyper macro focus.
00;17;59;27 - 00;18;15;20
Christian Espinosa
And I felt trapped in a number of ways. And I think from a manifestation point of view, that feeling trapped may have manifested in, you know, the six clots I had in my left leg. So I felt trapped in a number of areas of my life.
00;18;15;23 - 00;18;37;08
Craig Andrews
you know. So in terms of, in the moment, you know, one of the things that you mentioned in the Green Room was you said people go around and serve a zombie like state. and what's what's that look like? And what's that mean to you?
00;18;37;10 - 00;19;10;05
Christian Espinosa
Well, I, I myself have gone through life in a zombie like state is where you're kind of only focused on yourself and your problem. So you don't have the awareness, to be in touch with what else is going on around you today? It's even more exacerbated with cell phones. Like, I'm looking out the window now, and I always see people walking their dogs, but they're always on their phone, like, looking down and and, you know, we're developing this epidemic of text neck, you know, people look down all the time and their necks are starting to get screwed up.
00;19;10;07 - 00;19;33;07
Christian Espinosa
So I think that's part of it. where just like yesterday, I was walking, back to my place, and I saw this. This person, I'm seen him a couple times, and I said, hey, how's it going? And this person looked at me and then looked away, and it was just like, it kind of like bothered me that a fellow human being could even say hello because it's obvious he saw me.
00;19;33;10 - 00;20;00;16
Christian Espinosa
So it's it's about like those moments. That was a moment where we could have had a small interaction that lifted each other up versus him, just like acting like I wasn't even there for instance. And I think we often forget these super small moments to us, especially when you're interacting with somebody. Just a simple smile, a hello, you could make somebody's day, but we often are so immersed in our own world that we forget about that.
00;20;00;19 - 00;20;10;12
Craig Andrews
Yeah. You know when when you smile at somebody, it causes the uncontrolled release of dopamine in them.
00;20;10;15 - 00;20;12;01
Christian Espinosa
Yeah.
00;20;12;03 - 00;20;34;25
Craig Andrews
And it's a gift we have the power to give many times a day. I mean, think about that. We have the ability to give somebody a gift of a little shot of happiness in their day. And it's what you're talking about. It's just stopping long enough to look them in the eye and smile.
00;20;34;27 - 00;20;46;28
Christian Espinosa
Yeah. Doesn't cost us anything. Yeah, it actually makes us feel better, too. If you smile, it's it's proven that you. You're going to feel better yourself. So why not? You know, it's a simple thing to do.
00;20;47;01 - 00;21;16;26
Craig Andrews
Yeah. You know, I, I spent, about 15 years in the mobile phone industry, you know, that's that was the beginning. That was sort of the first half of my career. and they they've changed our world. But some of the things you're you're talking about, I, I agree, I think they've, I think they've changed our world in a way that's not good.
00;21;16;28 - 00;21;37;06
Craig Andrews
And so for. You know, if we just assume that most people have, have kind of crossed the line and have an unhealthy relationship with their phone, what what's some practical advice that you would give to these people?
00;21;37;09 - 00;22;10;15
Christian Espinosa
I think some of the practical advice is to consider the person you're with. And, that they probably, like most of us, want to feel seen and heard. And if you're on your phone, that person is not feeling seen and heard and you're diminishing that relationship and that relationship is going to suffer ultimately. And I think if you think of it from the converse, at least I do, and somebody is if I'm out to dinner with my girlfriend or someone and they're on their phone the whole time, I just want to leave.
00;22;10;16 - 00;22;30;11
Christian Espinosa
I'm like, what? Why are we even here out to dinner? This person's too busy in a different world, and we're sitting right across from each other, so it. I think we underestimate the the impact that has on people were with, and we've sort of just tolerated it. And I, I'm a believer that we get what we tolerate.
00;22;30;14 - 00;22;52;09
Christian Espinosa
And I don't like if somebody is on the phone, with me and we're having a conversation, I just stop talking and I disengage. I'm not going to tolerate that. And I think, well, if more of us did that, we would have a, a better, more empathetic society because we would actually have meaningful conversations where we're present with the other person.
00;22;52;11 - 00;23;14;14
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Yeah. boy, I tell you what, you're you're hitting a lot of, you're hitting a lot of points for me. And that's, you know, I do the same thing. If I'm talking to somebody and their phone buzzes and they pull it out in that moment, I stop talking. And if they keep engaging in their phone, I just kind of walk away.
00;23;14;14 - 00;23;18;02
Craig Andrews
I figure that's that was the end of the conversation.
00;23;18;04 - 00;23;19;13
Christian Espinosa
Yes.
00;23;19;16 - 00;23;49;28
Craig Andrews
And it's it's sad. and, you know, I read a study yesterday, I believe, and it's, there's the number of mental health issues in young people, went up significantly starting in around 2010, you know, so the iPhone came out in 2000, late 2007 and a couple of years for it. You know, the first generation iPhone was the data phone that kind of sucked data.
00;23;50;00 - 00;24;19;27
Craig Andrews
And so, you know, so the first real, quality data phone showed up, you know, late 2000, nine. And so starting around 2000 or 2000 or just before 2009. And so as it started taking up, it's interesting that with the advent of these, smartphones, mental health started declining.
00;24;20;00 - 00;24;35;12
Christian Espinosa
Yeah, I'm not surprised. you know, people today, they don't interact as much as they used to. And I think as humans, we're, a social species. And doing it on the phone with someone across the world is not the same as, you know, face to face or direct interaction.
00;24;35;15 - 00;24;59;27
Craig Andrews
You know? So. Well, that's really cool. I hope, I hope people I like that message. I think it's an important message. The in between life in the micro. I hope people will buy that book, read it, and have some more impactful relationships in their day to day.
00;25;00;02 - 00;25;27;12
Craig Andrews
I'm curious about one last thing the, curious about like. But for our time today, I'm kind of interested in you obviously are, you know, you've you've built and sold the business, you've built another and and your first book was, the smartest person in the room, would you say, explore its limitations of seeking validation through achievement and the desire to be the brightest intellect in any room?
00;25;27;14 - 00;25;47;19
Craig Andrews
Well, so you're obviously accomplished. You've done bunch of Ironman. It sounds like you excel at whatever you do. first off, let's just start with some background. What? you know what what was alpine security, you know, how did you found that? And and, grow that.
00;25;47;21 - 00;26;10;27
Christian Espinosa
That was my first cybersecurity business. I was, an employee of a company. I was making decent money. I was a vice president, and I got into kind of this ongoing argument with the CEO. And one day I just decided to quit, because it was like, mentally taxing on me, and I just quit with no job lined up.
00;26;10;29 - 00;26;31;22
Christian Espinosa
And that was a blessing in disguise. So after that, I did freelance work, for about five years. And then I got bored with the freelance work and started alpine Security to freelance work. You know, I was working about half the year and making a lot of money, but I felt like I wasn't growing and I wasn't contributing to society in the way I wanted to.
00;26;31;24 - 00;26;54;16
Christian Espinosa
So that's why that was the impetus to start my first cybersecurity business. I felt like if I could get a business going, hire people, build a team. I'll learn a lot. I can serve our clients better. And, I'm contributing to society in a way. And I'm also helping shape other people, or at least influence them while they're also influencing me.
00;26;54;18 - 00;27;04;07
Christian Espinosa
And that was the impetus of my first company. Then I sold that, in December of 2020 to a publicly traded company.
00;27;04;10 - 00;27;10;06
Craig Andrews
And, and what type of businesses did, alpine Security focus on?
00;27;10;09 - 00;27;32;24
Christian Espinosa
We primarily focused on health care. and we did penetration testing, which is ethical hacking. We're like the good guys that are hired to break into your environment using the same tactics, techniques and procedures that the blackhat or the cyber criminals use. And then we can tell you how to fix the holes we found before the bad guys break in.
00;27;32;27 - 00;28;01;05
Craig Andrews
Yeah. You know, it's, And I started university in 91, and they had us on Unix terminals and we, you know, we had a class where they would, you know, one of the first classes you had to take was, you know, understanding Unix. They could use it and they I remember this command they have, which was finger where you could identify where your buddies on campus figure out, you know, which computer, which computer lab they were.
00;28;01;07 - 00;28;21;13
Craig Andrews
Yeah. I thought this was cool. It's like, you know, my brother in law, I was in Raleigh, NC state, and my brother in law was working in Houston for a company called. Well, tell us so. Well, let me see if I can do it with his email. And I was able to do that, and I was able to find out how long he was at his desk and, you know, and all that.
00;28;21;15 - 00;28;38;08
Craig Andrews
And a few weeks later, I tried it again. And, you know, nothing came back. And I asked him, I said, hey, what's, what happened? And he said, yeah, it turns out you set off our cyber alarms, and they had to kind of shut that down. But, you know, in the early days of the internet, things were just kind of wide open.
00;28;38;09 - 00;28;42;10
Craig Andrews
I could peek in to somebody else's. Yeah. Mark.
00;28;42;12 - 00;29;03;13
Christian Espinosa
Yeah, it's I mean, the internet was created by, like, a bunch of hippies, really, that just wanted to share data, you know? And now we we live in a vastly different world where people want to steal your data and make money off of it. It's so it's it's it's done like a big shift. And unfortunately, we're still using a lot of the technologies that were created back then which were not designed with security.
00;29;03;13 - 00;29;08;05
Christian Espinosa
So we're trying to bolt on security at different levels, which is, you know, part of the challenge.
00;29;08;07 - 00;29;14;25
Craig Andrews
Yeah. Well of course. So what's what's bluecoat cyber. What does that do.
00;29;14;28 - 00;29;40;29
Christian Espinosa
Bluecoat Cyber is my new cyber security company. We primarily focus on medical device security. So we test medical devices, from a medical device manufacturer to make sure they are secure and a cybercriminal can't break into them. And, we help the device manufacturer get those, devices approved by the FDA in the United States and the EU.
00;29;40;29 - 00;30;01;13
Christian Espinosa
MDR in Europe. and the whole idea is a lot of us probably don't realize you might if you've been in a hospital, which you have, that on average, there's like 14 medical devices connected to a hospital bed or in the proximity of a hospital bed. And a lot of those devices have had vulnerabilities like a drug infusion pump.
00;30;01;16 - 00;30;23;21
Christian Espinosa
And if somebody can hack into that pump as example and increase the flow rate of a drug like morphine, they could kill somebody. So I've shifted our focus, my, my focus on medical devices because I feel the risk is a lot more, severe than, you know, somebody stealing your credit card information off of a website.
00;30;23;24 - 00;30;27;21
Christian Espinosa
So that's the focus of my new cybersecurity company.
00;30;27;23 - 00;30;42;13
Craig Andrews
Wow. That's cool. Yeah. As you were talking about, I was in there trying to think what what would be the benefit. And yeah, I guess if there's somebody you don't like, it's a, it's a good way of of doing that.
00;30;42;16 - 00;31;04;08
Christian Espinosa
well, yeah. It doesn't have to be something you like if a lot of malicious software just propagates autonomously and when and when it lands on a target, if the cybercriminal can use that to make money or do something, then they will. So if you have a vulnerable system, it might kill the malicious software. This propagate you might land on that.
00;31;04;10 - 00;31;24;13
Christian Espinosa
And you know we we do work with implantable to like pacemakers for a while had a massive vulnerability because these things have to have wireless capability. And I wrote about this in my first book, like Dick Cheney was so afraid that someone was going to kill him by wirelessly hacking into his pacemaker that he had to remove for a while.
00;31;24;16 - 00;31;45;13
Christian Espinosa
so, you know, we're we're living in a little bit different world. And, you know, this is the world I live in. Some of us don't see these things very often, but they're like, I see them all the time. So it's it's a lot of risk. And it's the advancements in health care. I don't want to be seen, rolled backwards because we have medical devices with lots of vulnerabilities.
00;31;45;15 - 00;32;10;00
Craig Andrews
it's a noble mission. Well, and this kind of leads to my question about your your first book about, the smartest person in the room. So you're obviously very accomplished, very smart. But you're saying that it's there's some type of fallacy by seeking to be the smartest person in the room. What do you mean by that?
00;32;10;02 - 00;32;39;24
Christian Espinosa
In cybersecurity and other high tech industries, people get their significance typically by being, quote, you know, smarter than somebody else. and we all want to feel significant. It's just how it happens in cybersecurity, in other industries. And if you're always trying to be intellectually or rationally smarter than other people, it inhibits collaboration. And it inhibits communication because you're always looking for a way to prove that you're brighter.
00;32;39;26 - 00;33;05;29
Christian Espinosa
And I wrote about this because I realized after a lot of struggles, my first company, 99% of my problems, were because my staff lacked emotional intelligence. It wasn't because they weren't rational, intelligent. They all have super high IQ. They just didn't have the EQ to go with it. So they would talk over clients heads. They would, you know, wait for a teammate to say something, then ridicule them for not already knowing something.
00;33;05;29 - 00;33;30;17
Christian Espinosa
It was just like this weird dynamic that I watched play out. And then I realized that this has been going on for my entire career. If I look back over 20 plus years in cyber, I this pattern is repeated itself, which that was the impetus for the book. I fix that problem in my company. So I added the emotional intelligence, the people skills to my already high, highly rational and rationally intelligent staff.
00;33;30;19 - 00;33;42;24
Christian Espinosa
And then my problems went away. My clients started loving us. They came back for annual contracts. my team worked together better, and, it really improved everybody's life.
00;33;42;26 - 00;33;49;22
Craig Andrews
Really cool. I mean, now that you laid that out as if that was really simple, that seems like a big change. But to make it.
00;33;49;24 - 00;33;51;07
Christian Espinosa
Simple.
00;33;51;10 - 00;33;54;04
Craig Andrews
how did you do it?
00;33;54;06 - 00;34;18;20
Christian Espinosa
So it was, it's an easy concept, right? But it's not a, I mean, simple concept. Not easy to implement. I did a couple things. I did weekly training with my team. we did some neuro linguistic programing training, some, communication skills training, people skills training. a number of different topics. And I realized not everybody was on board.
00;34;18;24 - 00;34;50;26
Christian Espinosa
There were some of my staff that simply were grounded in their own ego and their own identity, and they didn't want to shift their identity. they they have what I would refer to as a fixed mindset, sort of a growth mindset. So I had to let some people go. They just simply weren't willing to, adapt. And then any new people I hired, I hired them based on my core values first to make sure they align with what I wanted the organization, and only if they passed those core values in the culture.
00;34;50;26 - 00;35;24;24
Christian Espinosa
Then I look at their technical skills. So I flipped the script on how I hired people, because in the past, I hired people based on their cybersecurity certification, how smart they were. It ignored the other things. And now I didn't even look at that. I don't now, either. I don't look at the technical stuff until after they pass all the other items first, because I think, I think the technical skills are what I like to refer to is, skills with a finite shelf life, whereas the emotional intelligence and people skills and life skills have an infinite shelf life.
00;35;24;24 - 00;35;30;17
Christian Espinosa
So it behooves you to learn those other skills over technical skills.
00;35;30;19 - 00;35;47;15
Craig Andrews
You know, that's this is going to be one of those clickable moments from this interview, because what you just said, so incredibly profound, the technical skills have a finite shelf life, but the EQ skills persist on.
00;35;47;18 - 00;35;48;28
Christian Espinosa
That's right.
00;35;49;00 - 00;36;05;15
Craig Andrews
That is so powerful, so important. Now, when you let some of the people go where some of the people that you let go technically strong, technically valuable to the company hundred percent, that had to be scary.
00;36;05;17 - 00;36;28;18
Christian Espinosa
It was scary. you know, when you're a business owner and you got someone that you rely on, technically, even if they're rough around the edges and they piss people off periodically, you think, how am I going to do without this person? Because they're super, you know, brilliant, a brilliant mind. But when I let them go, I felt this, like, major sense of, like, you know, release.
00;36;28;18 - 00;36;41;07
Christian Espinosa
Like I could exhale. Like I was holding my breath the whole time, and I could exhale and, other people, picked up the slack. It wasn't that big of a deal. It wasn't as big of a deal as I made it out to be in my head.
00;36;41;09 - 00;37;04;07
Craig Andrews
Yeah, well, and I think that's. I think that's a good word for other, other business owners listening, other leaders listening because it would seem easy to keep delaying that decision, to let that person go because of the fear that you know, that nobody will be able to fill that void and step in their shoes.
00;37;04;09 - 00;37;26;28
Christian Espinosa
Yeah. You also, at least for me, I had to look at it from the perspective of my team as well. If I'm trying to set this new culture, my team is looking at me to enforce that culture. Culture just doesn't happen. You have to enforce it. And if I'm allowing somebody to be toxic in the environment and not doing something about it, but what does that say about my own leadership abilities?
00;37;27;01 - 00;37;47;29
Christian Espinosa
And they're going to get frustrated. So it to be like, well, Christian said, this is how we're going to run a company. This is how we're going to be. But he's allowing this, you know, individual to not fall in line with our values anymore. So it really is from a leadership perspective, it's also something I felt strongly that I had to take action because it wasn't just about me.
00;37;47;29 - 00;37;51;24
Christian Espinosa
It was also about my team, you know.
00;37;51;27 - 00;38;14;11
Craig Andrews
Well, Christian, this has been this has gone a lot longer than our normal interviews go, but it's because you've been bringing so much value. And I there. For me, there's three lessons that I heard in this one is from a health care perspective. Take ownership of your own health care. Nobody's going to care about more than you. I think I heard you say that.
00;38;14;13 - 00;38;44;10
Craig Andrews
and the second is make the most of micro moments focused on the people that you're with and seize the the opportunity in those moments. And that kind of ties into the third thing, which is emotional intelligence will outlive and be ultimately more valuable than technical skills, which are transient.
00;38;44;12 - 00;38;46;12
Christian Espinosa
100%.
00;38;46;14 - 00;38;48;02
Craig Andrews
Christian. go ahead.
00;38;48;02 - 00;39;00;24
Christian Espinosa
Yeah. I just because they and we have to realize AI is going to replace most of those technical jobs in the near future. So if you only have technical skills, you're more replaceable by AI.
00;39;00;26 - 00;39;23;19
Craig Andrews
Yeah. So anytime I post something when I, I it create, I get people coming at me. Even when I'm trying to say AI is a game changer. And the the thing that I'm cautioning against is AI is not your new blog writer, and it's not your new customer support team. There's something that the humans still need to do.
00;39;23;21 - 00;39;56;11
Craig Andrews
And it's funny, I have one guy, I think this was to some comment or a post I made about don't hand customer support over AI in the sky, wrote me this really nasty message. or at least that's the way it felt to me. It left me not feeling happy, not feeling warm about this guy. And then the very last line in the message was, by the way, this was written by AI, but like the dude, you just made my point.
00;39;56;14 - 00;39;58;03
Christian Espinosa
Yeah.
00;39;58;05 - 00;40;13;29
Craig Andrews
You know, it's it's that back to that emotional intelligence. So yeah, it's it's interesting. There's a lot of spirited debates about AI. It's but it is a game changer. I just think we have to be careful about how we use it.
00;40;14;01 - 00;40;16;04
Christian Espinosa
100%. Yep.
00;40;16;06 - 00;40;23;00
Craig Andrews
Well, Christian, this has been great. How do people reach you?
00;40;23;02 - 00;40;40;21
Christian Espinosa
Yeah, a couple of ways. they can go to my company website, Blue Goat cyber.com, or my personal website, Christian espinosa.com, and my books are all available on Amazon. The audiobook for the In Between Life and the micro just came out about three weeks ago, so that's available as well.
00;40;40;24 - 00;40;44;17
Craig Andrews
Well, excellent. Well, Christian, thank you for being on Leaders and Legacies.
00;40;44;20 - 00;40;49;27
Christian Espinosa
Yeah. Thank you so much, Craig, for having me on.
00;40;49;27 - 00;41;18;25
Craig Andrews
This is Craig Andrews. I want to thank you for listening to the Leaders and Legacies podcast. We're looking for leaders to share how they're making the impact beyond themselves. If that's you, please go to Alize for me.com/guest and sign up there. If you got something out of this interview, we would love you to share this episode on social media.
00;41;18;27 - 00;41;42;07
Craig Andrews
Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend, or posted on the socials. If you know someone who would be a great guest, tag them on social media and let them know about the show, including the hashtag leaders and legacies. I love seeing your posts and suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss anything.
00;41;42;09 - 00;43;52;23
Craig Andrews
Please go ahead and subscribe your thumbs up! Ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show. It means a lot to me. It means a lot to my team. If you want to know more, please go to Alize for me.com. or follow me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
